India

[aimée]

Om Shanti ,

I would like to share with you all my stay in India, because it is also nice to share experience as well as opinions. Maybe it can give another sight or angle on what the PBK are and who this ShivBaba is.

When I come back to India, it feels like I come back home, the minute I enter the gate of the Delhi centre I am received in such a natural way, no effusion, smiles, as if I just had gone out for a few hours and came back. Then very quickly I take the smooth rhythm of Indian life. Sleeping on the floor, sharing the room with another 5 or more, cold water in a bucket to wash ... nothing matters, it is all so natural. Even for food there is detachment.

The life is so smooth there, the fact that the interactions mostly happen only with sisters (and the brothers might find it is the same for them), it is very restful, without ambiguity. The sisters are very pure, an innocence we only would be able to find in the 19th century in the West. The result of their purity is natural benevolence; there heart is full of spontaneity, natural respect and lightness. They also have their own Maya to face, but it seems to me that their purity give them a good spring board (and the understanding of the Indian culture) to come nearer to Baba. So for me it is a big deep breath of fresh air.

Meeting Baba was very interesting, he is not the motherly sweet loving personage of the past, he is now the Father, and it is definitely another type of role. Whichever way he works with his attitude or in a subtle way, it feels like he has put in the open a few useless cobwebs, which I definitely had to swipe away if I want to move on. I was with another sister, we asked a lot of questions, but they don’t seem to fit in this forum. The only thing I can say it is that the second of the eight (Ashta Dev) has been revealed, she represents the candra vansh because she plays the mother part, and I think she will play a major role in the future. Baba being Yogeshvar, she is Yogini.

Another point I wanted confirmation about, is the idea that partly, Dharamraj will be the suffering we will endure as we will be torn away from our attachments. I had read or heard somewhere, or churned about it, and that makes sense. We don’t realise how much we are attached to the things around us, people, but also objects, our opinions, the image we have of ourselves and we want to show to others etc. everything is attachment.

I just can imagine that at the end, this is what is going to hurt the most, we are going to be totally stripped of our own self, or what we think our own self is, something to do with ego and body consciousness. And the only way out it seems to me, is now to connect to the main for as long as possible, and to purify our self from every types of illusion (everything) we have, all the multiples veils between me and reality, me and God. Ultimately, there should only be God and me. The second part of Dharamraj is a sort of tribunal, the Supreme Court, where we will have to face our mistakes; that I have difficulties to figure out ...

There is definitely a different atmosphere in India and England, and this time even more than before, it struck me. When I arrive in India, I immediately feel more relaxed, more myself and carefree. To be soul conscious is much easier. This time I realised that back to England, everyone is self conscious, very much into showing the outer self, and because I am too sensitive to the vibrations surrounding me, I could nearly read it by feeling my own self, a mixture of ego, ill-at ease, comparing ... I think in the west, with the obsession with individualism, we have lost all sense of self-respect and what have we gained? We have to constantly prove ourselves in front of the world, because we don’t exist any more as part of a group, with a specific role.

In India, a woman is happy when she is getting married, not because she is going to have a husband, but because she is going to become a wife. This is all about harmony as a part of a whole, and this only works when the whole group has the same philosophy of life. As individuals asserting themselves as separate from the group, it is logical, that it multiply the potential for clashes. If our existence is in harmony with the group, and we accept ourselves as a part of the whole, then there are fewer reasons for clashes. This seems to me where freedom is, to stop focusing on the self, my needs, my rights, my opinions etc. and just think at a higher level, where we act for the well being of the group. There is no more solitude, depression, less anger, frustration etc. This is I think what I feel in India, a sense of freedom, acceptance, spontaneity, this is wonderful.

[bansy]

If our existence is in harmony with the group, and we accept ourselves as a part of the whole, then there are fewer reasons for clashes. This seems to me where freedom is, to stop focusing on the self, my needs, my rights, my opinions etc. and just think at a higher level, where we act for the well being of the group.

I won't mind sharing to everyone that, having lived in both the West and East, I have had such many a discussions of this regarding individual and group - East and West types of behaviour (call it sanskars). I feel both is needed. One needs to identify and know oneself, but to interact within a group because we live in groups. We come and go from this world alone, but we are thrusted into a group from day 1. So the meaning of unity is to be unity in oneself, as well as unity as a group. The source of understanding these unities is from the Source.

This what makes the West attractive to the East, and what the East makes attractive to the West. You could almost divide the world into ying-Yang continents. I will call "West" the Americas, Europe and Australasias. The "East" as Asias, including Middle East. I will even include Africa as the "East".

One of the aspects which is pulling unity is immigration. Most of the "West" countries have a large source of immigrants, so there are many small unity groups but not a unity as a country. Whereas in other "East" countries, it is more homogenous with less immigrants, so there is greater group unity and less individualism. There is friction of people within a country when it is mixed, and more recently this is increasing due to immigration, and could spread further to between countries.

The above is just a short and general view of course, and not academic. Each nations' sense of unity is only as strong as its individual's sense of unity. There will be those who, from the "East" likes to live in the West, and vice-versa. In this aspect, maybe the sanskars and previous births within different countries hold true. So when practicing dharna, one needs to understand oneself, and apply it in your surroundings. To be a world benefactor, one needs to apply it to the world. That, to me, is also part of the history and geography class.

Just a short ramble.

Welcome back Sister Aimee, Glad you had a lovely time in India. Thanks for explaining about Dharamraj, I will make him my friend. :P

[aimée]

I suppose understanding the self for me is understanding the true self, the soul, the essence of what we are: otherwise, we don't go deep enough, and only understand ourself as complex beings with different intellectual, psychological, emotional levels, and we loose ourselves in a fascinating labyrinth of "me" and "my surroundings" and "my opinions" etc. This is I think why Baba (in both chariots) keeps saying: remember Me, remember Me, so we don't loose the plot. I sense somehow that the essence of the knowledge is extremely simple, and we have to go to the expansion of the Gyan to be able to take off one by one the layers of our prejudices and wrong thinking, to end up nude, as pure souls, in front of the Father, so the contact is direct.

I suppose I am highlighting the pitfalls of the western sanskars, because as a westerner, I know them quite well, but to be fair, the advantage is that we generally don't take everything for granted, we don't have this blind faith, and as Baba says (in Virendra Dev Dixit), the ones who think will want to have the proof of everything, they won't accept Baba without being convinced (very approximate interpretation of what He really said!). Also there is this ability to churn knowledge, but even here, Baba says that the kanyas are strong in knowledge, because they have purity.

When I was in India, I felt I knew nothing compared to them. they have a thorough understanding of the scriptures, they bathe in a Gyani environment, totally protected from the outside world, this is a very powerful environment! When I have had to go outside for the day and mix with a lokik type of living, when I come back home, I feel that I have lost the sense of my reality, the laukik world has become my reality, if you see what I mean ... this is a real dichotomy, two parallel universes (reminds me of quantum physics!), when I fall into one, I feel foreign to the other one, and because what I want is Baba's world, when I want to come back home, I have to switch my mind, make intense effort to come back, something to do with vibrations, vision, mind set, but it is alsmost physical, it might be totally physical after all, who knows what is real or not ...

And again, to be fair to the West, the East has also it's Maya, may be in a bit more Bhakti and blind faith, and also attachments...what do you think?

[pbktrinityshiva]

Aimee Mataji,

I have a similar experience to you in terms of the clash between East and West. Coming back from India to Australia i could feel myself climbing back down the rungs of soul-conciousness, despite efforts. Sort of felt like winding down ... I share your sense of being foreign when in either realm.

I wont say i abhor the West but I am reminded day to day, how life here is now far removed from that which is of any value, for those souls who are not new and blissfully happy in the matrix of Maya :). Each day I watch the West 'push it to the limit' a little bit further.

I will return to Bharat for a long period at the end of the year, i cannot wait.. but with days feeling like 1 or 2 hrs each ... and a month feeling like a week, i know it will come fast.

How was the experience different to your first time/s ? What is the general vibe in the Yagya? Did you go to Kampil?

Om Shanti
TS Bhai

[mr green]

I don't understand this Maya of the West thing, I've heard it so many times ... is not it just racism?

[aimée]

This is maybe the fourth time I have gone to India as a PBK, no mention about the difference between my stay as a BK. The first time I was so happy to see that all what I disagreed with, the hierarchy, the Bhakti side, the "materialism" (lack of simplicity) in the BK, was not present in the Advance Party.

I felt welcomed in the most spontaneous way, really part of the family. Now I know how it is and I suppose each time I am more and more part of it, and learning Hindi id also part of it. when I was in Kampil, it was like paradise, this was the satopradhan period, the honeymoon, I was walking on clouds! And having the knowledge unwrapped every day all day long, this was like Christmas, in much nicer of course ...

It cannot stay the same, and as every knight of the Confluence Age, I am bravely fighting against my old demons; Maya, Ravan and other terrible dragons. In India, they do have their demons, but they seems from here like sweet cuddly bears, I know I am wrong. We all come from Bharat, so the idea is to find again our roots, and what is Westerner in us, to peel it off ...

[bansy]

You got to ask yourself when, for example cooking, that is this an Asian dish or Oriental dish or noodle dish ... is this food or is this Asian food or Indonesian or French etc. The idea of eating food in remembrance is to realise that they are simply nutritional elements that supply the energy to a body which holds your soul.

So, it is the same with wear. Are you a BK/PBK when you wear jeans or when you wear a white sari? And all other aspects of BK-PBK life.

Yes, there is a lot of pull. There are differences the more the countries are apart, I wouldn't label it as "racism" as such either just that misunderstandings and unacceptance of cultures because one has attachment for their own culture. In a sense, to be "above the elements".

But as Sister Aimee and Brother pbktrinityshiva has pointed out, when Bharat is at the centre of this study, it make most of those who have moved furthest away to deal with closing the gap of this "East-West" divide. Some other (Indian) members posted elsewhere in this forum they are surprised why Westerners are intrigued by the Indian culture. (Aside: it is interesting now to see how India itself will change as it modernises and opens up to the outside world).

One other point, and this is not from any mathematical formula, is the feeling of being welcomed into a family is directly proportional to the feeling of absence from a family. This is why is it said that charity begins at home, and to serve those who are directly next to you. The service does not mean to convert them but to bring your true identity to those around around you, no barriers, full humility. Your own household is not made of strangers (are you a householder ?) and the moment folks become BK-PBKs, they immediately feel different towards everyone around them, whereas there should be no indifference. Hence the cause of suffering as shown in other threads in this forum.

Again, there are many good things in the West as there are in the East. Though the West , which has huge media control, can influence much on lives around the world. However, if you are from a rich Western country, what is stopping you from immigrating to a poor (and thus humble) Eastern nation ?

[mr green]

I once spoke with Dadi Gulzar in London. She used the term, the "Maya of the West", as though there is nothing wrong with India. As though it was a better place!!!!!! It does smack of racism to me and ignorance.

I accept though bansy saying that India is at the core of these studies. So an elitist attitude is to be expected I concede this and understand it.

[aimée]

Not elitist brother. We are supposed to become the purest. The counterpart is that we become the most impure. The Christian for example, won't go so high neither too low. Baba (in Virendra Dev Dixit) did say: "There should be no question of being higher or lower than each other" (clarification of Murli 30.07.90, tape 73).

I believe I come from Bharat, I just have to get rid of the outer Western layer, and remember who I am ...

[mr green]

I understand your belief and respect it.

I am alluding to the idea that the West is Maya's world, whereas India is the birthplace of humanity and purity. This is what appears elitist to me.

[aimée]

Yes, I also understand you point of view, but it is seeing part of the whole. If you see the whole picture, then there is no question of elitism.

Baba sometimes says that the Islamics are the most sinful, then he also can say that the Hindus themselves are the most sinful. There is no limit to their lust, as they followed Krishna's example, believing that he had 16000 queens ... he also often says that we are a bunch of monkeys.

[fluffy bunny]

I once spoke with Dadi Gulzar in london, she used the term, the "Maya of the West", as though there is nothing wrong with India.

"India", the nation that claims to have a monopoly on God's incarnation but which was eternally incapable of implimenting a decent sewage system. Says it all for me ...

I don't know PBK and so make no comment but I lost respect for the untreated Hindu Nationalistic effluence emanating from the BKWSU a long time ago.

I think there is this strange thing that happens when one travels long distances; one seems to leave behind one's karma for a while in the old place. Where ever it is. May be it is just being free from mental associations and the embodiment of one's karmic accounts in other people. Or may be "karma" just exists in a slower moving ether that takes time to catch up with jet planes ... but travelling helps one escape it for a while leaving us feeling more free from ourselves and generally positively colors our experience of where ever else it is we go.

I think the BKWSU is/was general is unconscious of how "Indian" it is. I think it is part of the romance and attraction for Westerners. I would like to be the fly on the wall of some of the conversations the Seniors must have about Westerners and the Wests behind closed doors and in their own language. I wonder what the whole push into the West was all about?

My guess would be easy financial pickings from other immigrants abroad. Of may be Janki just clashed sanskars with other senior BKs, India just wasn't big enough for the all of them, and she had to get out of town. May be she just did not like the dirt and flies in India ... I wonder.

[mr green]

Yes, I also understand you point of view, but it is seeing part of the whole. If you see the whole picture, then there is no question of elitism.

I presume by your comment you believe you are seeing the whole picture and I am not ... elitist? 8)

[aimée]

Baba does, I don't, I just have faith in what he tells me.

[mr green]

Baba does, I don't, I just have faith in what he tells me.

OK. Thank you. Now I will conclude this subject as I cannot communicate with someone who is just repeating in good faith what they have been told :wink:.