http://www.rajayoga.org.pl/

[jim]

The chariots understand Gyan numberwise, just like all souls.

The 7 days course of basic knowledge is based on Gyan as understood by Mother [ Brahma Baba ].

The 7 days course of advanced knowledge is based on Gyan as understood by Father [ Virendra Dev Dixsit ].

The person who understands/imbibes Gyan the best to the satisfaction of the whole world will become known as Father/Prajapita/Adam etc.

Some souls will recognise who this is direct from his own mouth, others will have to have what he says explained by others in terms that makes sense to them.

Jim

[john]

OK jim cheers.

that does make sense to me.

I'll post some thoughts on whether the 7 day courses have changed over time and why later

[uddhava]

Each soul will interpret what is spoken through the Chariot.

Dear Jim,

Of course we can misinterpret things spoken through the Chariot but in this case (1976) is not it the Chariot Brahma Baba, not us, who got it wrong? How can we rely on God's Chariot if God's Chariot can say things that are completely wrong?

[arjun]

Dear Uddhava,

Om Shanti. Although you have posed the above question to Jim Bhai, I would like to reply saying that although Brahma Baba could not interpret properly the declaration regarding 1976 due to his limited level of churning in spite of being God's Chariot, Baba says that whatever is uttered through the mouth of the Chariot is beneficial for everyone. Had the announcement not been made about 1976, the new Chariot would not have got revealed to the Brahmin world.

Destruction did take place in 1976; not in a gross form, but in a subtle form. It began the process of destruction of the evil souls within the Brahmin world and the establishment of the new world (of souls belonging to the Sun Dynasty) within the Brahmin world.
With regards,
On Godly service,
Arjun

[john]

Which soul was it that did the countdown?

I haven't read the points myself, but I think they went "4 years and no more destruction will be here"..."3 years is only remaining till destruction"....etc.


If the chariots are making huge blunders then what chance do we stand :shock:

[john]

Corruption, Irreligiousness, Unrighteousness, Vices, Insolvency and suffering will come to an end in Bharat within 9 years and Golden Aged Deity-world Sovereignty of Shri Lakshmi and Shri Narayana will come to be re-estabilished soon after the forth-coming huge world destruction.(June 1967)

This is the quote from the Lakshmi Narayana picture is this Brahma or Shivas quote?
It does to me read like huge world destruction will come in 1976.

[john]

Is there an official explaination by BKs as to what happened and why destruction did not happen and what did it all mean or was the destruction date affair lost between the pages of history?
I am pressuming any new pictures printed by BKs will have this bit removed or altered.

[jim]

Om Shanti Uddhava

I think Arjun has answered your point better than I could have. To me this idea of "drama" or "story" is an important concept because in a story the idea of doing something wrong doesn't fit. All parts of a story are required as it is actions and the consequences of (inaccurate and accurate) actions that make the story.



Jim

[jim]

Om Shanti John Bhai


John said

Is there an official explaination by BKs as to what happened and why destruction did not happen and what did it all mean or was the destruction date affair lost between the pages of history?

I wasn't around in the BKs in 1976 so I don't know what was said at the time. As far as I recall I was told that the Avaykt varni just after 1976 said it was a test of faith - which was certainly true. I haven't seen an English version of the AV fron 76/77 or 77/78 so I cannot check.


John said

I am pressuming any new pictures printed by BKs will have this bit removed or altered.

At some point after 1976 the pictures at Pandav Bhaven had stickers placed over the "destruction in 1976 bits". The prints of these pictures I have got (English versions) were scanned from originals that I think dated from 1985. So I don't know if the pictures were still being printed or if these originals were old stock that was floating around. They did not come from a BK source so there avaliability doesn't necessarly mean the BKs hadn't completely withdrawn these pictures. As anyone who has been a BK will know, the new English pictures are quite different from the old ones and miss out most of the important details. I find it surprising how the BK organisation alters information they say comes from "God" (pictures and Murlis). I have to wonder if they really have faith in ShivBaba / God - or maybe the just don't think he has a monopoly on truth.

John said

This is the quote from the Lakshmi Narayana picture is this Brahma or Shivas quote?

How can the source be proved? I would say it is Brahma. I think this would be accepted by PBKs but when you get an opinion from me / a PBK they are just telling what the teacher has told them (as they understand it). Obviously best to go to the horses mouth.

John said

It does to me read like huge world destruction will come in 1976

I know someone who would agree (or at least used to).

Jim

[uddhava]

Had the announcement not been made about 1976, the new Chariot would not have got revealed to the Brahmin world.

Dear Arjun,
Om Shanti. Please explain this - do you mean that Brahma Baba had to appear foolish so BK's would lose faith in him and look for another Chariot?

[uddhava]

I haven't read the points myself, but I think they went "4 years and no more destruction will be here"..."3 years is only remaining till destruction"....etc.

Dear John,

Are you quoting Avyakt Vanis here? It would be interesting to see the final Sakar Murlis and the Avyakt Vanis of 1969 - 77. I wonder if they are available or have they been 'lost'?

Is there an official explaination by BKs as to what happened and why destruction did not happen and what did it all mean or was the destruction date affair lost between the pages of history?

Good question, but I guess that for an official BK explanation, you would have to ask a BK official, and you might encounter a stone wall. We have heard that at the time - 1977 - many BK's (how many?) lost faith and left. Presumably they did not hear any satisfactory explanation. For those that join the BK's some time after 1976 they are unlikely to hear anything about this episode. I presume that references to the countdown would be edited or the relevant muris / Vanis would just disappear. Otherwise there might be some awkward questions in the morning class. :roll:

[john]

Uddhava

Are you quoting Avyakt Vanis here? It would be interesting to see the final Sakar Murlis and the Avyakt Vanis of 1969 - 77. I wonder if they are available or have they been 'lost'?

I am sorry, I don't exactly know as I am posting from memory of something I read on ex-BK chat some time ago.
But I am sure it was the 10 year warning which came out with the Lakshmi Narayana picture first published ( I believe) in 1966.
So that would have been presumably 3 years of Sakar Murlis and 7 years Avyakt Vanis the warnings were in.
I remember Hanuman of ex-BK chat saying he was actually there when it all happened. He has made a brief appearance on this forum, so if someone could ring his bell, I am sure he'd be a good source of information.

[arjun]

Dear Uddhava,
Om Shanti. You wrote:
"Please explain this - do you mean that Brahma Baba had to appear foolish so BK's would lose faith in him and look for another Chariot?"

Brahma Baba acted as per the role of a 'mother' recorded in his soul. He was not as intellectual as the role of the 'Father' that was to be revealed in 1976, but whatever was spoken through him paved the way for the intellectual BK souls to realize and reveal the new Chariot (Father) in 1976.

With regards,
On Godly service,
Arjun

[john]

There is a Murli point along the lines of.
"Whatever is spoken through the Chariot consider that to be Gyan/Shrimat, even if it is the Chariot speaking Shiva will correct it"

So was this point of 1976 destruction ever corrected to the BKs?
for 10 years they believed destruction of the world would come in 1976.
I am wondering why a correction wasn't made in this time or was a correcton made but missed?
I would think if a mistake is made by a Chariot, then the correction is made through the same Chariot.

[aimée]

Jim,
We are entering a very delicate subject here, that could only be understood through churning, and according to our sanskars. If I may quote a translation (a human filter) from a Murli clarification (5.3.86) tape 49, last page:
"Just like they formed a misunderstanding in the Brahmin world that Krishna's soul is the one who is teaching, the same misunderstanding should not occur here that the soul of Ram is the one who is teaching"

I am aware of the problem of using quotes, but when we interpret Gyan we use our own manmat, and we automatically influence another soul. This is an absurd situation for me because I am very keen on sharing what I know because this Gyan is so extraordinary it has to be shared, but at the same time I cannot possibly not put my manmat into it, because I am not God.
Let's say that the teacher is God, but Shiv has no mouth, and no mind to control, so he needs a Chariot to do his work. and this Chariot is going to be Prajapita when he will be revealed as the Father of humanity, and he is a model to follow. As I understand in this clarification, he is the most manmanabhav, in that we have to follow him. He is the most soul conscious, the nearest we can get to God, and Bapsaman at the end.
What I do not completely understand is when there is the teaching of ShivBaba going on (the classes?) and when there is a space for Ram's churning. Apparently, when questions are asked to him, all what he answers is Murli quote, so cannot have any manmat or wrong interpretation in it.
About the Advance Course in Kampil, I think the sisters learn by heart their bit, if a question is asked and they are not certain about it, they ask directly to Baba. The course is regularly updated according to the Murli clarifications that come up. So it is as near as can be from truth.