ShivBaba (Virendra Dev Dixit) has said there is safety in keeping a chart and regularly submitting it to him. Bk's do similar as far as I am aware and send it to the heads.
Who here keeps a chart PBK/BK or ex-P/BK ? and if so what do you include? To what level of detail do you provide?
I am just interested as to what most people include :) if indeed they keep one. It would be nice to establish a formal 'approved' structure.
Looking forward to anyones thoughts..
Om Shanti
Chart - Important?
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pbktrinityshiva
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arjun
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Dear brother,
Om Shanti. I don't think there is any difference between the charts of BKs and PBKs, because it is a matter of dharna. However, I have sent a mail to Baba in this regard. Until I get a reply from him, here is a Murli quote regarding maintainance of chart.
• "Baba kahtey hain – chart rakho aur service ka khyaal karo toh bahut khushi hogi. Kitni bhi achhi Murli chalaatey hain parantu Yoga hai nahi. Baap say sachha ban-na bhi bada mushkil hai. Agar samajhtey hain ham bahut teekhey hain toh Baba ko Yaad kar chart bhejein toh samjhengey kahaan tak sach hai ya jhooth?" (BKs dwara prakaashit revised Sakar Murli taareekh 30.7.05, page 4)
• "Baba says – maintain a chart and think about service, then you will be very happy. There are children who narrate Murli very nicely, but they don’t have Yoga with Baba. It is very difficult to be truthful with Father. If children feel that they are very clever then they should remember Baba and send chart, then Baba will think how far it is true or false.” (Revised Sakar Murli dated 30.07.05, page 4 published by BKs and narrated by ShivBaba through Brahma Baba)
Regards,
OGS,
Arjun
Om Shanti. I don't think there is any difference between the charts of BKs and PBKs, because it is a matter of dharna. However, I have sent a mail to Baba in this regard. Until I get a reply from him, here is a Murli quote regarding maintainance of chart.
• "Baba kahtey hain – chart rakho aur service ka khyaal karo toh bahut khushi hogi. Kitni bhi achhi Murli chalaatey hain parantu Yoga hai nahi. Baap say sachha ban-na bhi bada mushkil hai. Agar samajhtey hain ham bahut teekhey hain toh Baba ko Yaad kar chart bhejein toh samjhengey kahaan tak sach hai ya jhooth?" (BKs dwara prakaashit revised Sakar Murli taareekh 30.7.05, page 4)
• "Baba says – maintain a chart and think about service, then you will be very happy. There are children who narrate Murli very nicely, but they don’t have Yoga with Baba. It is very difficult to be truthful with Father. If children feel that they are very clever then they should remember Baba and send chart, then Baba will think how far it is true or false.” (Revised Sakar Murli dated 30.07.05, page 4 published by BKs and narrated by ShivBaba through Brahma Baba)
Regards,
OGS,
Arjun
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arjun
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Dear PBK TrinityShiva,ShivBaba (Veerendra Dev Dixit) has said there is safety in keeping a chart and regularly submitting it to him. BK's do similar as far as I am aware and send it to the heads. Who here keeps a chart PBK/BK or ex-P/BK ? and if so what do you include? To what level of detail do you provide?
I have received the following response from ShivBaba (through Baba Virendra Dev Dixit) in English to your views expressed above:
"one can even write mistakes which occur from morning until evening in the chart. Mistakes which occurs repeatedely should be surely written."
Regards,
OGS,
Arjun
But if one is very honest, and considering none of us (except a very few) is without vices, then the day could be a contemplation a series of mistakes; at the level of the mind, the words and the actions. Then it is possible to spend two hours every night writing all this list of self-criticism onto paper.
If everyone did it and send it to Baba, he would be drowning under those mail and letters (or the nimit sisters). Even if one keeps it for the self, then it is enough to feel depressed about their imperfections ... what? How is it that I am not enlightened yet?
Being a fan of Quantum Physics, I realize that to focus on the defects will make it grow, and to nurture the positive, to project the ideal makes it possible ... How do you overcome this contradiction?
If everyone did it and send it to Baba, he would be drowning under those mail and letters (or the nimit sisters). Even if one keeps it for the self, then it is enough to feel depressed about their imperfections ... what? How is it that I am not enlightened yet?
Being a fan of Quantum Physics, I realize that to focus on the defects will make it grow, and to nurture the positive, to project the ideal makes it possible ... How do you overcome this contradiction?
I understand what you are saying about focusing on the negative, but maybe Baba knows the technique beyond what we understand. There certainly is something about writing things down which has an effect in general. I don't understand it yet myself.aimée wrote:Being a fan of Quantum Physics, I realize that to focus on the defects will make it grow, and to nurture the positive, to project the ideal makes it possible ... How do you overcome this contradiction?
Exactly, there must be a way to do it, and Mr Green's joke has truth in it, as it is very easy to fall in the trap of self guilt. May be not enjoying it (well...), but it is a frame of mind in the Judeo-Christian mentality, that we need to suffer to obtain anything. The counterpart we are now experiencing, is to reject the whole of it, the baby with the bath water. Baba is totally detached, so it is easy for him to observe, and then show the way to erase.
I am going to come back with my cliched idea about the dichotomy between the East-West, because, well, until I am detached myself, I am in this prison myself. And we all are. For the Indians, and Baba first speaks in Hindi, it seems easy to see him as the Father. They commit a sin, and ask for forgiveness, and it works this way because there is so much love behind. Can we still feel loved when we make mistakes? Maybe that is our first mistake, to consider we become unworthy, or to make sure we only can see mistakes so we cannot achieve anything.
There is a great interview of Michael Ledwith in the "Quantum Edition" of "What The Bleep" on the subject: even if we have been brought up in an atheist environment, we are moulded in a Christian mental pattern, subconsciously. I have asked a question to Baba around this, but it is so difficult to put forward our questions. We are so complicated and he is so uncomplicated. And maybe after all the only thing we should bother about is to be soul-conscious and to "plug in to the mains"...
YES! I forgot something very important. I remember once writing my potamail about some aspect of me that bothered me, and I felt very strongly his presence, and I felt afterwards that that problem was washed away. It was quite amazing. That means writing to him, which you cannot do for every single thing ...
I am going to come back with my cliched idea about the dichotomy between the East-West, because, well, until I am detached myself, I am in this prison myself. And we all are. For the Indians, and Baba first speaks in Hindi, it seems easy to see him as the Father. They commit a sin, and ask for forgiveness, and it works this way because there is so much love behind. Can we still feel loved when we make mistakes? Maybe that is our first mistake, to consider we become unworthy, or to make sure we only can see mistakes so we cannot achieve anything.
There is a great interview of Michael Ledwith in the "Quantum Edition" of "What The Bleep" on the subject: even if we have been brought up in an atheist environment, we are moulded in a Christian mental pattern, subconsciously. I have asked a question to Baba around this, but it is so difficult to put forward our questions. We are so complicated and he is so uncomplicated. And maybe after all the only thing we should bother about is to be soul-conscious and to "plug in to the mains"...
YES! I forgot something very important. I remember once writing my potamail about some aspect of me that bothered me, and I felt very strongly his presence, and I felt afterwards that that problem was washed away. It was quite amazing. That means writing to him, which you cannot do for every single thing ...
Maybe we can also put some positive happenings in the chart which also occure sometimes. Then they will uplift us.
Yes, maybe we can punish ourselves in some way each time a mistake is done, or scold ourselves, pull our ear, but we should equate the mistake with the punishment. If we are to miss a meal for each mistake, for the mistakes we do in one day we'll have to miss meals for one month.
If one puts in the chart time of wake up, how much time of sleep, food - when and how much do you eat, how, when do you drink, what and how etc all things then they'll come into control because we have paid attention. We are careful about these. We should be for everything; did i cause someone sorrow? When you see later, you'll aslo be able to see the graph of your own effort with the ups and downs. One will get to know one's own self better, the capacity and what is possible for one's self.
It is said in the Murli that one has intoxication to keep a chart and keeps for 4-5 days and Maya makes hims forget. This is also a matter of discipline, kind of fight with Maya. We have all ours small and big fights here and there.
Yes, maybe we can punish ourselves in some way each time a mistake is done, or scold ourselves, pull our ear, but we should equate the mistake with the punishment. If we are to miss a meal for each mistake, for the mistakes we do in one day we'll have to miss meals for one month.
If one puts in the chart time of wake up, how much time of sleep, food - when and how much do you eat, how, when do you drink, what and how etc all things then they'll come into control because we have paid attention. We are careful about these. We should be for everything; did i cause someone sorrow? When you see later, you'll aslo be able to see the graph of your own effort with the ups and downs. One will get to know one's own self better, the capacity and what is possible for one's self.
It is said in the Murli that one has intoxication to keep a chart and keeps for 4-5 days and Maya makes hims forget. This is also a matter of discipline, kind of fight with Maya. We have all ours small and big fights here and there.
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paulkershaw
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Just a quick question here Who chose that punishment for you? Was it a 'senior' and was that 'senior' overweight as many of them are? Could their body have done with missing a few meals themselves? ...mr green wrote:I used to hold court and miss a meal I am not joking!!! In fact, the punishment was chosen by others ... you lot are just fooling around.
Ta...
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fluffy bunny
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The daftest thing I ever did in my Honeymoon Period was when I had an imperfect week, I cant remember what but say I missed one Amrit Vela ... no, I think it was eating chocolate bars bought from a sweetshop with which a wrestled with ("dirty sweets from the market", as it says in the Murli) ... or something, I would give ALL my wages to the bandhara instead of the 10% they told you was "Brahmin thing to do" to punish me and clear my karma.
I wonder where I got that idea from!?! They would be even richer by now if I had kept that up!!! Its funny but there are all sort of folk stories or superstitions floating around the BKWSU that really did not come from Shiva Baba/DB but which BK eggs each other on with, like this.
I knew the husband of one BK that broke Shrimat big time during her Honeymoon Period (the wife not the husband) and tried madly to get money from all her non-BK family to give to the BKs. I have to guess in a mania too clear her "sins" as well. It is a superstition the BKs obviously profit widely from.
It is probably a good thing to have a senior check one's chart and talk about these things ... but we saw from Mitra's post about Om Radhe coming back to do "service via money" because it was the one she had missed out on. So there must be some sort of consciousness about this inside the organization.
Keeping a journal or diary is fine and an agreeable thing. I always thought keeping a "chart" was hugely stupid and embarassing ... Can anyone list the questions the BKs gave us? How the hell could one tell "how long did I remember Baba for?", "Did I have negative thoughts about anyone? etc" when the brain thinks, e.g.;
As an aside, did you know that the brain uses as much as 25 Watts of energy. Enough for a small light bulb.
The biggest punishment I ever heard of was for some brother, clearly a educational sub-normal or a bit of a dim lightbulb, who had ... ahem ... indulged himself by himself (so as to say), being banned from going to Madhubhan to meet Baba that season and prescribed another 9 months of perfect Maryadas (I think it was .. specifically longer that the minimum for a new BK), e.g. morning class every day, absolute celibacy/purity before he could go again. And this was int he old days when individuals actually met the Holy Ghost on a one to one basis rather than in a rock stadium environment.
The bottomline was, if you did such a thing - nevermind sexing with someone else - that you had to and did confess it to a Senior Sister in personal ... and you were ultimately judged or punished for it in a subtle most powerful manner, i.e. banned from meeting with God in person and banned from going to the family home. I thought it was a little bit hypocritical because the SS would also at the same time invite non-BK VIPs following no Maryadas to Madhuban and to meet Bap-Dada.
I have no idea HOW it affected such an individual's Brahmin life afterwards but it would be interesting to discuss as. From a bystander's point of view, one could argue that it was hugely invasive and all about power. The BKs might argue it was all about forgiveness ... the PBKs probably say it was all out of order and corrupt because the BKs have no Baba to fulfill this role.
I wonder where I got that idea from!?! They would be even richer by now if I had kept that up!!! Its funny but there are all sort of folk stories or superstitions floating around the BKWSU that really did not come from Shiva Baba/DB but which BK eggs each other on with, like this.
I knew the husband of one BK that broke Shrimat big time during her Honeymoon Period (the wife not the husband) and tried madly to get money from all her non-BK family to give to the BKs. I have to guess in a mania too clear her "sins" as well. It is a superstition the BKs obviously profit widely from.
It is probably a good thing to have a senior check one's chart and talk about these things ... but we saw from Mitra's post about Om Radhe coming back to do "service via money" because it was the one she had missed out on. So there must be some sort of consciousness about this inside the organization.
Keeping a journal or diary is fine and an agreeable thing. I always thought keeping a "chart" was hugely stupid and embarassing ... Can anyone list the questions the BKs gave us? How the hell could one tell "how long did I remember Baba for?", "Did I have negative thoughts about anyone? etc" when the brain thinks, e.g.;
- rate of thought during waking hours (10 per second) = 36000 thoughts per hour
rate of thought during sleeping hours = 3600 thoughts per hour
Therefore number of thoughts per day = 604,800 thoughts per day
(BTW, scientists actually calculate the brain operates at 10 to the power of 16 (16 zeros) synapse operations per second ...)
As an aside, did you know that the brain uses as much as 25 Watts of energy. Enough for a small light bulb.
The biggest punishment I ever heard of was for some brother, clearly a educational sub-normal or a bit of a dim lightbulb, who had ... ahem ... indulged himself by himself (so as to say), being banned from going to Madhubhan to meet Baba that season and prescribed another 9 months of perfect Maryadas (I think it was .. specifically longer that the minimum for a new BK), e.g. morning class every day, absolute celibacy/purity before he could go again. And this was int he old days when individuals actually met the Holy Ghost on a one to one basis rather than in a rock stadium environment.
The bottomline was, if you did such a thing - nevermind sexing with someone else - that you had to and did confess it to a Senior Sister in personal ... and you were ultimately judged or punished for it in a subtle most powerful manner, i.e. banned from meeting with God in person and banned from going to the family home. I thought it was a little bit hypocritical because the SS would also at the same time invite non-BK VIPs following no Maryadas to Madhuban and to meet Bap-Dada.
I have no idea HOW it affected such an individual's Brahmin life afterwards but it would be interesting to discuss as. From a bystander's point of view, one could argue that it was hugely invasive and all about power. The BKs might argue it was all about forgiveness ... the PBKs probably say it was all out of order and corrupt because the BKs have no Baba to fulfill this role.
Yes, a diary is a good idea, as to find out how sweet I am and having as a duty to find our quality and our progress, to nurture this side. But also to be able to see the shortcoming with honesty ... and self-respect as a Copper Age warrior I have my enemies to fight ... who said to love your enemies, so you can fight them more easily? Maybe to give my defect to Baba, knowing he loves me anyway and he is the great Laundryman. He doesn't mind washing the dirtiest clothes, as smelly and horrible they can be!
Aimee, truly, I and a group of five used to do this, and yes the senior amongst us was EXTREMELY overweight in fact I can see now he definitely had an eating disorderpaulkershaw wrote:Just a quick question here Who chose that punishment for you? Was it a 'senior' and was that 'senior' overweight as many of them are? Could their body have done with missing a few meals themselves? ...
By the way, Jayanti was informed about our group, gave the thumbs up and congratulated us on intense effort making. Like mr ex-l, I did many extreme things in the name of dharna.
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