वार्तालाप-625, ताडेपल्लिगुडेम, दिनांक 09.09.08
भाग-1
समयः 00.02-13.05
जिज्ञासुः बाबा, एक है गॉडली पढ़ाई और दूसरा है डॉगली पढ़ाई। गॉडली पढ़ाई अभी हम बच्चे पढ़ रहे हैं लेकिन डॉगली पढ़ाई, ये मैं सोचता हूँ, डॉगली पढ़ाई में मैं ऐसा समझता हूँ कि डाग में काम विकार जास्ती होता है। और जो अभी बी.के. की जो पढ़ाई है वो जाति जाति के लोगों को दृष्टि देकर पतित बना रहे हैं। वो डॉगली पढ़ाई है। मैं ऐसा सोचता हूँ।...
बाबाः डॉगली पढ़ाई माने व्यभिचारी पढ़ाई, व्यभिचार में ले जाने वाली पढ़ाई और गॉडली पढ़ाई माने अव्यभिचारी बनाने वाली पढ़ाई। अब वो चाहे स्थूल कर्मेन्द्रियाँ व्यभिचारी बनाने वाली हो और चाहे सूक्ष्म ज्ञानेन्द्रियाँ हैं उनको व्यभिचारी बनाने वाली हो। ईश्वरीय ज्ञान तो बेसिक नॉलेज में भी है जो तथाकथित ब्रह्माकुमार-कुमारियों में दिया जाता है और ईश्वरीय ज्ञान एडवांस नॉलेज में भी है परन्तु जहाँ खास सिखाया जाता है कि स्त्री पुरुष बैठ करके जाति-जाति के स्त्री पुरुषों से से दृष्टि का लेन देन करें... भल दृष्टि श्रेष्ठ इन्द्रिय है, आँखें श्रेष्ठ हैं, श्रेष्ठ अंगों में गिनी जाती हैं परन्तु उन आँखों से पार्ट बजाने वाली जो आत्मा है, वो तमोप्रधान, भ्रष्ट है या श्रेष्ठ है?
जिज्ञासु: तमोप्रधान, भ्रष्ट है।
बाबा: तो तलवार चाहे जितनी तीखी और कीमती क्यों न हो, चलाने वाले के ऊपर उसका मदार है। चलाने वाला अच्छी तलवार चलाना जानता होगा तो अच्छा रिजल्ट निकालेगा। विजय प्राप्त करावेगा। और अगर तलवार चलाना ही नहीं जानता तो अपना ही गला काट देगा। अपने मित्र संबंधियों का ही गला काट देगा। ऐसे ही ये आँखें हैं। ये बहुत तीखी कटारी हैं। इन आँखों के लिए बोला है आँखें बहुत धोखा देने वाली हैं। क्यों? आत्मा तमोप्रधान बन गई हैं इसलिए धोखा देने वाली हैं। और जितने भी मनुष्यमात्र हैं इस दुनिया में वो सब धोखेबाज़ हैं या कोई ऐसे भी हैं जो कभी किसी को धोखा नहीं देते? बाप तो बच्चों के लिए भी बोला हुआ है कि मेरी पढ़ाई पढ़ने वाले बच्चे आँखों से 10, 20, 50 भूलें तो रोज़ ही करते हैं। भगवान की पढ़ाई पढ़ने वाले बच्चों का ये हाल है तो दुनिया का क्या हाल होगा? तो बाप कहते हैं भगवान पढ़ाते हैं गॉडली पढ़ाई और दुनिया के जो भी मनुष्य मात्र हैं वो सब पढ़ाते हैं डॉगली पढ़ाई। उस पढ़ाई में एक होता है थियरी और दूसरा होता है प्रैक्टिकल। कोई थियरी में भल पास हो जाए, अगर प्रैक्टिकल में फेल हो जाता है तो उसे फेल माना जाता है या पास माना जाता है? फेल ही कहा जावेगा।
तो ये भी पढ़ाई मन बुद्धि के वायब्रेशन को संभालने वाली पढ़ाई है, गॉडली पढ़ाई। फिर दृष्टि वृत्ति को सुधारने वाली पढ़ाई है। श्रेष्ठ ज्ञानेन्द्रियों को स्थिर बनाने वाली पढ़ाई है। और फिर अंत में कर्मेन्द्रियों को भी स्थिर करने वाली पढ़ाई है। कर्मेन्द्रियाँ भी शीतल बन जाती हैं। इतनी शीतल बन जाती हैं कि जैसे देवताओं के लिए कहा गया है कि कभी किसी को दुख नहीं देते थे। ऐसा पार्ट बजाने वाले बच्चे ब्राह्मण बच्चे बन जाएंगे। काम का आवेग, क्रोध का आवेग, कोई भी प्रकार का बाहुबल या तोड़फोड़ नहीं करेगा। ऐसी श्रेष्ठ पढ़ाई पढ़ाने वाला गॉडली गॉड फादर आया हुआ है। वो भारतीय पढ़ाई पढ़ाता है शुद्ध। भारतीयता की विशेष निशानी ये है कि यहाँ भारत में पवित्रता को विशेष महत्व दिया जाता है। पवित्रता में भी अव्यभिचारी वृत्ति को विशेष महत्व दिया जाता है। अव्यभिचारी इन्द्रियाँ बनें, चाहे ज्ञानेन्द्रियां हों, चाहे कर्मेन्द्रियाँ हों। व्यभिचार से ही रावण राज्य पैदा होता है। ऐसे नहीं कि सतयुग त्रेता में देवताओं की दुनिया में सुख नहीं भोगते थे। सुख तो भोगते थे लेकिन स्त्री पुरुष की दृष्टि व्यभिचारी नहीं होती थी। राधा की दृष्टि कृष्ण में ही डूबती थी। कृष्ण की दृष्टि राधा में ही डूबती थी। ऐसी अव्यभिचारी सृष्टि की स्थापना भगवान बाप करके जाते हैं। कोई प्रकार का दुख-दर्द पैदा नहीं होता। जबसे द्वैतवादी द्वापरयुग शुरु हुआ तो इन्द्रियों का व्यभिचार शुरू हो गया ।
ये जो भी विदेशी हैं, इब्राहिम हों, इस्लामियों के बाप, क्रिश्चियन्स हों, क्राइस्ट, बुद्ध हों, बौद्धियों के बाप, ये सब यादव सम्प्रदाय हैं। भरपूर आँखों की शराब पीने और पिलाने वाले हैं। बड़े-बड़े महल-माडियाँ अटारियों वाले हैं। इस दुनिया में बड़े-बड़े मान-मर्तबे वाले हैं। ये सब व्यभिचार फैलाने वाले साबित हो गए हैं। विदेशों में कन्याओं-माताओं को व्यभिचारी बनाने वालों को, व्यभिचारी होने वालों को, ज्यादा बच्चे पैदा करने वालों को ईनाम दिया जाता है। समझते हैं हमारी जेनरेशन बढ़ेगी। भले कुत्ते बिल्ली पैदा होते रहें। बाप बताते हैं बच्चे, शेर जैसी एक पैदाइश होनी चाहिए। शेर क्या करता है? एक शेर से एक ही शेर पैदा होता है। हमारे भारत का कोट आफ आर्म निशानी क्या है? तीन शेर दिखाए जाते हैं। ये तीन शेर ब्रह्मा, विष्णु, शंकर की यादगार हैं। इन्होंने इस संसार रूपी जंगल में ऐसी ज्ञान की दहाड़ मारी थी जो सारी दुनिया पलट गई थी। यादगार में झण्डा बनाया है तीन रंग के कपड़ों का। कपड़ा शरीर रूपी वस्त्र को कहा जाता है। कोई तीन शरीर रूपी वस्त्र चैतन्य में थे इस दुनिया में, खास भारतवासी जिन्होंने विश्व विजय करके दिखलाई थी। तो झण्डा का गान गाते रहते हैं। क्या? विश्व विजय करके दिखलावे। अरे कपड़े का झण्डा विश्व विजय करेगा क्या? कपड़े के झण्डे की पहचान होगी क्या? कपड़े का झण्डा नाम बाला करेगा, नाम बुलन्द करेगा कि कोई मनुष्यात्माएं हैं जो नाम बुलन्द करेंगी?
ये कपड़े का झण्डा ऊँचा करने से कोई फायदा नहीं होने वाला। कौनसा झण्डा ऊँचा करना है? त्रिमूर्ति बाप का झण्डा ऊँचा करना है। बाप तीन मूर्तियों में आया हुआ है। तीन मूर्तियों के द्वारा कार्य कराता है। कोई के द्वारा प्रैक्टिकल पार्ट बजाता है। प्रैक्टिकल पार्ट बजाता है। कोई के द्वारा वाचा का पार्ट बजाता है। कोई के द्वारा दृष्टि और वाचा, दोनों का पार्ट बजाता है। कोई के द्वारा अच्छे वायब्रेशन फैलाता है। तो वो बाप तीन मूर्तियों के द्वारा अभी प्रत्यक्ष हो रहा है। तीनों ही मूर्तियां इस नई सृष्टि की स्थापना में, पालना में और पुरानी सृष्टि के विनाश के कार्य में विशेष सहयोगी बनती हैं। डॉगली पढ़ाई का अंत कराती हैं और गॉडली पढ़ाई का नाम दुनिया में बाला हो जाता है। ऐसा भी टाइम आने वाला है जो दुनिया में सब धंधे नष्ट हो जावेंगे। अभी भी देखा जा रहा है सब धंधों में है नुकसान। एक ईश्वरीय धंधा ही दुनिया में कायम रहेगा। और उस एक ईश्वरीय धंधे से ही ऐसी नई दुनिया कायम हो जावेगी जहाँ देवताओं को कोई भी धन्धा नहीं करना पड़ेगा पेट के लिए। देवताओं की प्रकृति ऐसी बन जावेगी, स्वभाव संस्कार ऐसा बन जावेगा कि सारी प्रकृति ही सतोप्रधान बन जावेगी। सब कुछ मुहैया करावेगी। प्रकृति दासी बन जावेगी। कितनी बड़ी आत्मिक साइंस होगी। ऐसी साइंस, ऐसी पढ़ाई और कोई पढ़ाय नहीं सकता।
Disc.CD No.625, dated 09.09.08 at Tadepalligudem
Part-1
Time: 00.02-13.05
Student: Baba, one is the dogly knowledge and the other is the Godly knowledge (knowledge of God). Now we children are studying the Godly knowledge. But I think that as regards the dogly knowledge, a lot of vice of lust is present in a dog. And in the knowledge that the BKs are studying now, they are making people sinful by giving drishti to different kinds of people. That is a dogly study. I think so...
Baba: Dogly knowledge means adulterous knowledge (vyabhicaari padhaai), a knowledge that takes us towards adultery and Godly knowledge means a knowledge that makes us pure (avyabhicaari). Well, whether it makes the physical karmendriya adulterous or whether they make the subtle sense organs adulterous. There is the Divine (Iishwariya) knowledge (of God) in the basic knowledge as well which is given among the so-called Brahmakumar-kumaris and there is the Divine knowledge in the advance knowledge as well but the place where it is particularly taught that women and men should sit and exchange drishti with different kinds of people... Although drishti (eyes) are elevated organ, the eyes are elevated, they are counted among the elevated organs, is the soul that plays a part through those eyes tamopradhaan [and] corrupt or elevated?
Student: It is tamopradhaan and corrupt.
Baba: Then, however much sharp and costly a sword is, [its result] depends on the person using it. If the user is expert at wielding a sword, then he will bring out good results. He will fetch victory. And if he does not at all know how to use the sword, he will cut his own neck. He will cut the neck of his friends and relatives themselves. Similar is the case with these eyes. These are very sharp daggers (tiikhi kataari). It has been said for these eyes that the eyes deceive a lot. Why? The soul has become impure that is why they deceive. And are all the human beings of this world cheats or is there anyone who never deceives anyone? The Father has said even about the children: The children who study My knowledge will definitely commit 10, 20, 50 mistakes through the eyes daily. When this is the condition of the children who study the knowledge of God, then what will be the condition of the world? So, the Father says: God teaches the Godly knowledge and all the human beings of the world teach dogly knowledge. In that study one thing is theory and the other thing is practical. A person may pass in theory, [but] if he fails in the practical [examination], is he considered to have failed or is he considered to have passed? He will be called only a failure.
So, this knowledge is also the one that controls the vibrations of the mind and intellect, [it is] the Godly knowledge. Then it is a knowledge that reforms the vision and vibrations. It is a knowledge that stabilizes the elevated sense organs and then it is a knowledge that stabilizes the karmendriya as well in the end. The karmendirya also become calm (shiital). They become so calm that just as it has been said for the deities that they never used to give sorrow to anyone. The children, the Brahmin children will become the ones who play such a part. There will be no impulse of lust, no impulse of anger, they will not use any kind of physical power or bring destruction. Godly God the Father has come to teach such elevated knowledge. He teaches the pure Indian knowledge. The special sign of being an Indian is that here, in India special importance is given to purity. Even in case of purity, special importance is given to pure vibrations. The indriya should become pure, whether it is the sense organs or the karmendirya. The kingdom of Ravan begins only due to adultery. It is not that people did not enjoy happiness in the world of deities in the Golden Age and Silver Age. They did enjoy happiness, but the vision of women and men was not adulterous. Radha used to see only Krishna. Krishna used to see only Radha. God, the Father establishes such pure world and then goes. There is no kind of sorrow or pain. Ever since the dualistic Copper Age began the adultery of indriya started.
All the foreigners, whether it is Abraham, the Father of the people of Islam, whether it is the Christians, Christ, whether it is Buddha, the Father of the Buddhists, all of them belong to the Yadava community. They drink and make the others drink a lot of the alcohol of the eyes. They possess big palaces and multi storied buildings. They command high respect and position in this world. All these have proved to be the ones who spread adultery. Those who make the virgins and mothers adulterous, those who become adulterous, those who give birth to more number of children are given prizes in the foreign countries. They think that their generation will increase it doesn’t matter if [children like] dogs and cats are born. The Father says, ‘Children there should be one child like a lion’. What does a lion do? One lion gives birth to only one lion. What is the Court of arms, the symbol in our India? Three lions are shown. These three lions are the memorial of Brahma, Vishnu and Shankar. They made such a roar of knowledge in the jungle like world that the entire world changed. A flag of cloths of three colours has been made as its memorial. The cloth like body is called cloth. There were some three living cloth like bodies in this world, especially the Indians who gained victory over the world. So, they keep singing song for the flag. What? Vishwa vijay karke dikhlaave (It will conquer the world). Arey, will a cloth flag conquer the world? Will a cloth flag be recognized? Will the cloth flag bring fame or are there some human souls who will glorify the name of India?
There is going to be no use of hoisting this cloth flag. Which flag should be hoisted high? The flag of the Trimurti, the Father has to be hoisted high. The Father has come in the three personalities. He has the work done through the three personalities. Through someone He plays the part in practice. He plays the part in practice. Through someone He plays the part of speaking. Through someone He plays the part of vision (drishti) as well speech (vaacaa). Through someone He spreads good vibrations. So, that Father is being revealed through the three personalities now. All the three personalities become especially helpful in the task of the establishment, sustenance of the new world and the destruction of the old world. They bring the end of the dogly knowledge and the Godly knowledge becomes famous in the world. Such a time is also going to come when all the occupations of the world will end. Even now it is being observed that there is loss in all the occupations. Only one Divine occupation will survive in the world. And only through that one Divine occupation such a new world will be established where the deities will not have to do any occupation for their stomach. The nature and sankaars of the deities will become such that the entire nature itself will become satopradhaan. It will provide everything. The nature will become a maid. That will be such a great spiritual science. Nobody else can teach such a science, such knowledge. ... (to be continued.)
Q&A: PBK Murli discussions
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Re: Q&A: PBK Murli discussions
वार्तालाप-625, ताडेपल्लिगुडेम, दिनांक 09.09.08
भाग-2
समयः 13.13-19.29
जिज्ञासुः एकलव्य माना एक को लव करने वाला – जो साकार बाप सुप्रीम सोल को लव करता हैं। लेकिन शास्त्र में द्रोणाचार्य एकलव्य का जो अंगुष्ठा है ना बाबा, अंगुष्ठा है उसको मांगता है गुरु दक्षिणा के रूप में। ये माना जो आत्मिक स्थिति, अंगुष्ठा माना आत्मा की याद। वो अंगुष्ठा मांगने में आत्मिक स्थिति को निकाल दिया। तब द्रोणाचार्य गुरु कैसे होते हैं बाबा?
बाबाः द्रोणाचार्य दुनियावी गुरुओं का मिसाल है या ईश्वरीय पढ़ाई पढ़ाने वाला गुरू है? (जिज्ञासु – दुनियावी...) दुनिया में जो भी गुरू हैं उन गुरुओं का एक उदाहरण द्रोणाचार्य रखा गया है। द्रोण माने घड़ा। ये ज्ञान का घड़ा है। ज्ञान घड़े का आचार्य है। उस ज्ञान को प्रैक्टिकल जीवन में धारण करने वाला नहीं है। रावण के हाथों में भी वेद शास्त्र दिखाए जाते हैं। बड़ा विद्वान, प्रकण्ड आचार्य था। फिर प्रैक्टिकल जीवन में क्या करता था? क्या करता था? परायी स्त्री पर आँख डालता था। तो रावण का पार्ट हुआ ना। व्यभिचारी बनने-बनाने वाले का पार्ट हुआ ना।
(जिज्ञासु – द्रोणाचार्य) द्रोणाचार्य भी अपने बच्चे को जास्ती पढ़ाई पढ़ाते थे या पार्शियालिटी वाले नहीं थे? (जिज्ञासु – लेकिन अर्जुन को ज्यादा प्यार करते ऐसा दिखाया ना) सिर्फ प्यार ज्यादा करने से क्या होता है प्रैक्टिकल में सहयोग किसको दिया? अर्जुन को सहयोग दिया प्रैक्टिकल में या कौरवों को सहयोग दिया? (जिज्ञासु – कौरवों को।) तो प्रैक्टिकल जीवन देखा जाता है या सिर्फ वाचा देखी जाती है? तो द्रोणाचार्य ने अपने शिष्य के साथ ये पार्शियालिटी कर दी। शिष्य तो मान लिया परन्तु पार्शियालिटी करी। क्या पार्शियालिटी करी? जो श्रेष्ठ ते श्रेष्ठ पढ़ाई पढ़ने वाला एकलव्य बना उसका अंगूठा काट लिया। शास्त्रों में आत्मा को ही अंगुष्ठाकार बताया गया। एकलव्य ब्राह्मणों की दुनिया में एक को प्यार करने वाला वो पार्ट कौनसा है? शास्त्रों में वो क्या नाम से प्रसिद्ध है? वो बाप राम बाप कहा जाता है। राम वाली आत्मा का ये पार्ट है। क्या? एक को प्यार करता है। चाहे स्थापना का पार्ट हो, चाहे विष्णु के रूप में पालना का पार्ट हो, चाहे विनाश का पार्ट हो, एक का जैसा इशारा मिलेगा वैसा ही पार्ट बजावेगा। राम वाली आत्मा का ये पार्ट नूँधा हुआ है। क्या? श्रेष्ठ ते श्रेष्ठ पार्ट भी बजाता है, नारायण बन जाता है जिसकी शास्त्रों में कोई ग्लानि नहीं है। वो ही राम वाली आत्मा एकदम अंत में रावण भी बन जाती है।
तो जो देहअभिमानी रावण बनेगा उसका आत्मा रूपी अंगूठा रहेगा या कट गया होगा? कटा हुआ होता है। देहअभिमानी बन करके ही दुनिया का विनाश हो सकता है। इम्प्युरिटी से होता है दुनिया का विनाश। और प्युरिटी से होती है नई दुनिया की स्थापना। (जिज्ञासु ने कुछ कहा) वो आत्मा रूपी अंगूठा द्रोण ने काट लिया। ये पार्शियालिटी करी परन्तु वो भी ड्रामा में कल्याणकारी है। ड्रामा में सब कुछ कल्याणकारी है। बाप कल्याणकारी, ड्रामा कल्याणकारी, हमारा पार्ट भी कल्याणकारी और राम वाली आत्मा के लिए तो ऐसे ही बोला हुआ है, वो तो सारी सृष्टि का बीज है। सारी सृष्टि की हर आत्मा के अन्दर जो पार्ट नूंधा हुआ है, वो पार्ट बीज में होगा तब दुनिया में होगा या बीज में नहीं होगा तो दुनिया में हो सकता है? हर बात बीज में होगी। इसलिए मुरली में बोला है दुनिया की ऐसी कोई बात नहीं जो तेरे पर लागू न होती हो। माना हर पार्टधारी का पार्ट राम वाली आत्मा में लागू होता है। 84 लाख योनियों का भी पार्ट क्यों न हो, तो भी वो पार्ट और आत्माएं चाहे बजाएं न बजाएं वो एक आत्मा 84 लाख योनियों का भी पार्ट बजाने वाली है। 84 लाख योनियों में जाती नहीं है। लेकिन पार्ट प्ले करती है।
जिज्ञासुः तो राम ही रावण बनना इसमें कल्याण है, सूर्य को सूर्य से ही...?
बाबाः हाँ, जी।
समयः 19.30-20.23
जिज्ञासुः बाप कहते हैं मुझे ज्ञानी तू आत्मा प्रिय लगता है। और ब्रह्मा को एक तरफ बच्चा बुद्धि कहा जाता है, बेबी बुद्धि कहते हैं लेकिन पहला पत्ता को ज्यादा प्यार करते हैं बाप। बच्चे बापदादा को अलग करने की कोशिश करते हैं लेकिन बापदादा फिर भी सेपेरेट नहीं होते।
बाबाः अरे, पहले पत्ते का भी बाप कौन है?
जिज्ञासुः बाप, राम बाप है।
बाबाः राम बाप ही तो पहले पत्ते का बाप है। तो दुनिया में ऐसा कौन आदमी होता होगा जो अपने बच्चे को प्यार न करता हो? और पहलौटी के बच्चे को तो बहुत प्यार किया जाता है।
जिज्ञासुः लेकिन वो तो बच्चा बुद्धि, ज्ञानी तू आत्मा नहीं है।
बाबाः भल बच्चा बुद्धि है। सब जानते हैं, छोटा बच्चा पैदा होता है तो सालिम बुद्धि, सगीर बुद्धि होगा या बच्चा बुद्धि होगा?
जिज्ञासुः बच्चा बुद्धि।
बाबाः तो बच्चा ही बुद्धि होगा।
Disc.CD No.625, dated 09.09.08 at Tadepalligudem
Part-2
Time: 13.13-19.29
Student: Eklavya means the one who loves the One, the corporeal Father who loves the Supreme Soul Shiva. But in the scriptures, Dronacharya sought the thumb (angushthaa) of Eklavya as guru dakshinaa (guru’s fees). It means soul conscious stage; angushthaa means remembrance of the soul. By seeking the thumb he deprived him of his soul conscious stage. Baba, then, how can Dronacharya be called a guru?
Baba: Is Dronacharya an example of the worldly gurus or is he the guru who teaches Divine knowledge? (Student: Worldly…) Dronacharya has been shown as an example of all the gurus that exist in the world. Dron means pot. This is the pot of knowledge. He is an aacaarya (teacher) of the pot of knowledge. He does not assimilate that knowledge in his life in practice. Vedas and scriptures are shown in the hands of Ravan as well. He was a big scholar, and a great teacher. Then what did he do in his life in practice? He used to lay his eyes on other’s wife. So, it was Ravan’s part, wasn’t it? It was a part of becoming adulterous and making [others] adulterous, wasn’t it?
(Student: Dronacharya.) Did Dronacharya also used to teach his son more knowledge… was he not partial? (Student: But it has been shown that he used to love Arjun more.) What happens just by loving [Arjun (a Pandava prince)] more? Whom did he help more in practical? Did he give more help to Arjun in practice or did he help the Kauravas? (Students: The Kauravas.) So, is the practical life taken into account or is just speech taken into account? So, Dronacharya showed this partiality for his disciple. He did accept him as a disciple, but he showed partiality. What partiality did he show? He cut the thumb of Eklavya, who was the best student. In the scriptures the soul itself has been said to have the shape of a thumb (angushthaakaar). Who plays the part of Eklavya, the one who loves [only] the One, in the Brahmin world? By which name is he famous in the scriptures? He is called the Father, the Father Ram. It is the part of the soul of Ram. What? He loves the One. Whether it is the part of establishment, whether it is the part of sustenance in the form of Vishnu, whether it is the part of destruction, he will play a part just as he is directed by the One. The soul of Ram is destined to play this part. What? He plays the most elevated part; he becomes Narayan who has not at all been defamed in the scriptures. The same soul of Ram also becomes Ravan in the very end.
So, will the one who becomes a body conscious Ravan have his thumb like soul or will it be cut? It is cut. The destruction of the world can be possible only by becoming body conscious. Impurity leads to the destruction of the world and purity leads to the establishment of the new world. (Student said something.) Drona cut that thumb like soul. He showed this partiality. But that is also beneficial in the drama. Everything is beneficial in the drama. The Father is beneficial, the drama is beneficial and our part is also beneficial. And this is what has been said for the soul of Ram. He is the seed of the entire world. Will the part that is recorded in every soul of the entire world be played in the world if it is recorded in the seed or can it exist in the world even if it is not recorded in the seed? There will be everything in the seed. This is why it has been said in the Murli that there is nothing in the world that doesn’t apply to you. It means that the part of every actor is applicable to the soul of Ram. Be it the part of even the 84 lakh (8400000) species, it doesn’t matter whether the other souls play that part or not, that one soul will play even the part of 84 lakh species. He does not pass through the 84 lakh species. But what about the part? He plays such parts.
Student: So, there is benefit in Ram becoming Ravan; Sun can be ... only through the Sun.
Baba: Yes.
Time: 19.30-20.23
Student: The Father says: I like a knowledgeable soul. And on one side Brahma is said to have a child like intellect, a baby like intellect. But the Father loves the first leaf more. [It is said that] children try to separate Bap and Dada, but still Bap and Dada do not separate.
Baba: Arey, who is the Father of the first leaf as well?
Student: It is the Father, Father Ram.
Baba: Father Ram himself is the Father of the first leaf. So, which person in the world wouldn’t love his child? And the first child is loved a lot.
Student: But he has a child like intellect; he is not a knowledgeable soul.
Baba: He may have a child like intellect; everyone knows that when a small child is born, will he have a mature intellect or will he have a child like intellect?
Student: Child like intellect.
Baba: So, he will have a child like intellect itself. ... (to be continued.)
भाग-2
समयः 13.13-19.29
जिज्ञासुः एकलव्य माना एक को लव करने वाला – जो साकार बाप सुप्रीम सोल को लव करता हैं। लेकिन शास्त्र में द्रोणाचार्य एकलव्य का जो अंगुष्ठा है ना बाबा, अंगुष्ठा है उसको मांगता है गुरु दक्षिणा के रूप में। ये माना जो आत्मिक स्थिति, अंगुष्ठा माना आत्मा की याद। वो अंगुष्ठा मांगने में आत्मिक स्थिति को निकाल दिया। तब द्रोणाचार्य गुरु कैसे होते हैं बाबा?
बाबाः द्रोणाचार्य दुनियावी गुरुओं का मिसाल है या ईश्वरीय पढ़ाई पढ़ाने वाला गुरू है? (जिज्ञासु – दुनियावी...) दुनिया में जो भी गुरू हैं उन गुरुओं का एक उदाहरण द्रोणाचार्य रखा गया है। द्रोण माने घड़ा। ये ज्ञान का घड़ा है। ज्ञान घड़े का आचार्य है। उस ज्ञान को प्रैक्टिकल जीवन में धारण करने वाला नहीं है। रावण के हाथों में भी वेद शास्त्र दिखाए जाते हैं। बड़ा विद्वान, प्रकण्ड आचार्य था। फिर प्रैक्टिकल जीवन में क्या करता था? क्या करता था? परायी स्त्री पर आँख डालता था। तो रावण का पार्ट हुआ ना। व्यभिचारी बनने-बनाने वाले का पार्ट हुआ ना।
(जिज्ञासु – द्रोणाचार्य) द्रोणाचार्य भी अपने बच्चे को जास्ती पढ़ाई पढ़ाते थे या पार्शियालिटी वाले नहीं थे? (जिज्ञासु – लेकिन अर्जुन को ज्यादा प्यार करते ऐसा दिखाया ना) सिर्फ प्यार ज्यादा करने से क्या होता है प्रैक्टिकल में सहयोग किसको दिया? अर्जुन को सहयोग दिया प्रैक्टिकल में या कौरवों को सहयोग दिया? (जिज्ञासु – कौरवों को।) तो प्रैक्टिकल जीवन देखा जाता है या सिर्फ वाचा देखी जाती है? तो द्रोणाचार्य ने अपने शिष्य के साथ ये पार्शियालिटी कर दी। शिष्य तो मान लिया परन्तु पार्शियालिटी करी। क्या पार्शियालिटी करी? जो श्रेष्ठ ते श्रेष्ठ पढ़ाई पढ़ने वाला एकलव्य बना उसका अंगूठा काट लिया। शास्त्रों में आत्मा को ही अंगुष्ठाकार बताया गया। एकलव्य ब्राह्मणों की दुनिया में एक को प्यार करने वाला वो पार्ट कौनसा है? शास्त्रों में वो क्या नाम से प्रसिद्ध है? वो बाप राम बाप कहा जाता है। राम वाली आत्मा का ये पार्ट है। क्या? एक को प्यार करता है। चाहे स्थापना का पार्ट हो, चाहे विष्णु के रूप में पालना का पार्ट हो, चाहे विनाश का पार्ट हो, एक का जैसा इशारा मिलेगा वैसा ही पार्ट बजावेगा। राम वाली आत्मा का ये पार्ट नूँधा हुआ है। क्या? श्रेष्ठ ते श्रेष्ठ पार्ट भी बजाता है, नारायण बन जाता है जिसकी शास्त्रों में कोई ग्लानि नहीं है। वो ही राम वाली आत्मा एकदम अंत में रावण भी बन जाती है।
तो जो देहअभिमानी रावण बनेगा उसका आत्मा रूपी अंगूठा रहेगा या कट गया होगा? कटा हुआ होता है। देहअभिमानी बन करके ही दुनिया का विनाश हो सकता है। इम्प्युरिटी से होता है दुनिया का विनाश। और प्युरिटी से होती है नई दुनिया की स्थापना। (जिज्ञासु ने कुछ कहा) वो आत्मा रूपी अंगूठा द्रोण ने काट लिया। ये पार्शियालिटी करी परन्तु वो भी ड्रामा में कल्याणकारी है। ड्रामा में सब कुछ कल्याणकारी है। बाप कल्याणकारी, ड्रामा कल्याणकारी, हमारा पार्ट भी कल्याणकारी और राम वाली आत्मा के लिए तो ऐसे ही बोला हुआ है, वो तो सारी सृष्टि का बीज है। सारी सृष्टि की हर आत्मा के अन्दर जो पार्ट नूंधा हुआ है, वो पार्ट बीज में होगा तब दुनिया में होगा या बीज में नहीं होगा तो दुनिया में हो सकता है? हर बात बीज में होगी। इसलिए मुरली में बोला है दुनिया की ऐसी कोई बात नहीं जो तेरे पर लागू न होती हो। माना हर पार्टधारी का पार्ट राम वाली आत्मा में लागू होता है। 84 लाख योनियों का भी पार्ट क्यों न हो, तो भी वो पार्ट और आत्माएं चाहे बजाएं न बजाएं वो एक आत्मा 84 लाख योनियों का भी पार्ट बजाने वाली है। 84 लाख योनियों में जाती नहीं है। लेकिन पार्ट प्ले करती है।
जिज्ञासुः तो राम ही रावण बनना इसमें कल्याण है, सूर्य को सूर्य से ही...?
बाबाः हाँ, जी।
समयः 19.30-20.23
जिज्ञासुः बाप कहते हैं मुझे ज्ञानी तू आत्मा प्रिय लगता है। और ब्रह्मा को एक तरफ बच्चा बुद्धि कहा जाता है, बेबी बुद्धि कहते हैं लेकिन पहला पत्ता को ज्यादा प्यार करते हैं बाप। बच्चे बापदादा को अलग करने की कोशिश करते हैं लेकिन बापदादा फिर भी सेपेरेट नहीं होते।
बाबाः अरे, पहले पत्ते का भी बाप कौन है?
जिज्ञासुः बाप, राम बाप है।
बाबाः राम बाप ही तो पहले पत्ते का बाप है। तो दुनिया में ऐसा कौन आदमी होता होगा जो अपने बच्चे को प्यार न करता हो? और पहलौटी के बच्चे को तो बहुत प्यार किया जाता है।
जिज्ञासुः लेकिन वो तो बच्चा बुद्धि, ज्ञानी तू आत्मा नहीं है।
बाबाः भल बच्चा बुद्धि है। सब जानते हैं, छोटा बच्चा पैदा होता है तो सालिम बुद्धि, सगीर बुद्धि होगा या बच्चा बुद्धि होगा?
जिज्ञासुः बच्चा बुद्धि।
बाबाः तो बच्चा ही बुद्धि होगा।
Disc.CD No.625, dated 09.09.08 at Tadepalligudem
Part-2
Time: 13.13-19.29
Student: Eklavya means the one who loves the One, the corporeal Father who loves the Supreme Soul Shiva. But in the scriptures, Dronacharya sought the thumb (angushthaa) of Eklavya as guru dakshinaa (guru’s fees). It means soul conscious stage; angushthaa means remembrance of the soul. By seeking the thumb he deprived him of his soul conscious stage. Baba, then, how can Dronacharya be called a guru?
Baba: Is Dronacharya an example of the worldly gurus or is he the guru who teaches Divine knowledge? (Student: Worldly…) Dronacharya has been shown as an example of all the gurus that exist in the world. Dron means pot. This is the pot of knowledge. He is an aacaarya (teacher) of the pot of knowledge. He does not assimilate that knowledge in his life in practice. Vedas and scriptures are shown in the hands of Ravan as well. He was a big scholar, and a great teacher. Then what did he do in his life in practice? He used to lay his eyes on other’s wife. So, it was Ravan’s part, wasn’t it? It was a part of becoming adulterous and making [others] adulterous, wasn’t it?
(Student: Dronacharya.) Did Dronacharya also used to teach his son more knowledge… was he not partial? (Student: But it has been shown that he used to love Arjun more.) What happens just by loving [Arjun (a Pandava prince)] more? Whom did he help more in practical? Did he give more help to Arjun in practice or did he help the Kauravas? (Students: The Kauravas.) So, is the practical life taken into account or is just speech taken into account? So, Dronacharya showed this partiality for his disciple. He did accept him as a disciple, but he showed partiality. What partiality did he show? He cut the thumb of Eklavya, who was the best student. In the scriptures the soul itself has been said to have the shape of a thumb (angushthaakaar). Who plays the part of Eklavya, the one who loves [only] the One, in the Brahmin world? By which name is he famous in the scriptures? He is called the Father, the Father Ram. It is the part of the soul of Ram. What? He loves the One. Whether it is the part of establishment, whether it is the part of sustenance in the form of Vishnu, whether it is the part of destruction, he will play a part just as he is directed by the One. The soul of Ram is destined to play this part. What? He plays the most elevated part; he becomes Narayan who has not at all been defamed in the scriptures. The same soul of Ram also becomes Ravan in the very end.
So, will the one who becomes a body conscious Ravan have his thumb like soul or will it be cut? It is cut. The destruction of the world can be possible only by becoming body conscious. Impurity leads to the destruction of the world and purity leads to the establishment of the new world. (Student said something.) Drona cut that thumb like soul. He showed this partiality. But that is also beneficial in the drama. Everything is beneficial in the drama. The Father is beneficial, the drama is beneficial and our part is also beneficial. And this is what has been said for the soul of Ram. He is the seed of the entire world. Will the part that is recorded in every soul of the entire world be played in the world if it is recorded in the seed or can it exist in the world even if it is not recorded in the seed? There will be everything in the seed. This is why it has been said in the Murli that there is nothing in the world that doesn’t apply to you. It means that the part of every actor is applicable to the soul of Ram. Be it the part of even the 84 lakh (8400000) species, it doesn’t matter whether the other souls play that part or not, that one soul will play even the part of 84 lakh species. He does not pass through the 84 lakh species. But what about the part? He plays such parts.
Student: So, there is benefit in Ram becoming Ravan; Sun can be ... only through the Sun.
Baba: Yes.
Time: 19.30-20.23
Student: The Father says: I like a knowledgeable soul. And on one side Brahma is said to have a child like intellect, a baby like intellect. But the Father loves the first leaf more. [It is said that] children try to separate Bap and Dada, but still Bap and Dada do not separate.
Baba: Arey, who is the Father of the first leaf as well?
Student: It is the Father, Father Ram.
Baba: Father Ram himself is the Father of the first leaf. So, which person in the world wouldn’t love his child? And the first child is loved a lot.
Student: But he has a child like intellect; he is not a knowledgeable soul.
Baba: He may have a child like intellect; everyone knows that when a small child is born, will he have a mature intellect or will he have a child like intellect?
Student: Child like intellect.
Baba: So, he will have a child like intellect itself. ... (to be continued.)
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Re: Q&A: PBK Murli discussions
वार्तालाप-625, ताडेपल्लिगुडेम, दिनांक 09.09.08
भाग-3
समयः 20.32-25.15
जिज्ञासुः बाबा, प्रजापिता ब्रह्माकुमार-कुमारी भाई बहन ठहरे लेकिन बाप कहते हैं भाई बहन के संबंध में भी माया आ सकती है। इसलिए भाई-भाई समझो लेकिन हमारा तो ये प्रवृत्ति है ना बाबा। तो माँ-बाप और बच्चे – ये संबंध ही सतयुग में भी कंटिन्यू होते हैं। तो इसलिए भाई-बहन समझने में क्या गलत है? पक्का भाई-बहन होते हैं तो विकारी दृष्टि नहीं होती।
बाबाः हम जब तक ब्राह्मणों की दुनिया में आत्मिक स्थिति में रहने वाले हैं तो हमारे लिए ऊँच ते ऊँच धाम सुखधाम है या परमधाम है? (जिज्ञासु – परमधाम है...) तो हम कौनसी स्थिति में रहते हैं? परमधामी स्टेज में रहते हैं। ये परमधामी स्टेज ये बताती है कि जब तक आत्मा-आत्मा भाई-भाई परमधामी स्टेज वाले नहीं बनेंगे तब तक सुखधाम में आने वाले नहीं बन सकते। पहले बाप के घर का बच्चा बनना पड़े। रुद्रमाला का मणका सारी दुनिया बनेगी या कोई आत्मा, मनुष्यात्मा ऐसी भी होगी जो रुद्रमाला का मणका न बने? 500 करोड़ मनुष्यात्माएं सब रुद्रमाला के मणके हैं नंबरवार पुरुषार्थ अनुसार। तो सब भाई-भाई बनेंगे पहले या पहले भाई-बहन बनेंगे? (जिज्ञासु – भाई-भाई।) पहला लक्ष्य हमारा है आत्मा-आत्मा भाई-भाई। बाद में सुखधाम आवेंगे। इसलिए ऊँच ते ऊँच धाम परमधाम गाया हुआ है। सुखधाम नहीं गाया हुआ है।
जिज्ञासुः लेकिन प्रवृत्ति है ना बाप। हमारा लक्ष्य तो प्रवृत्ति है ना । परमधाम माना निवृत्ति।
बाबाः संगमयुग में भी जब हम लक्ष्मी-नारायण का पार्ट बजावेंगे तो सतयुगी लक्ष्मी-नारायण का पार्ट बजावेंगे या संगमयुगी लक्ष्मी-नारायण का पार्ट बजावेंगे? संगमयुगी लक्ष्मी-नारायण का पार्ट बजावेंगे और संगमयुगी लक्ष्मी-नारायण की जो प्रवृत्ति है वो बुद्धि का जो वायब्रेशन है वो भाई का बहन की तरफ जाएगा? नारायण का नारायणी की तरफ वायब्रेशन जाएगा या नारायणी का नारायण की तरफ वायब्रेशन जाएगा या परमधाम में जावेगा? उनका वायब्रेशन कहाँ आकर्षित करने वाला होगा? (जिज्ञासु – आत्मा की तरफ।) आपस में राधा-कृष्ण की तरफ तो एक दूसरे का वायब्रेशन खींचने वाला नहीं होगा? जो वायब्रेशन होगा... जैसे राधा की दृष्टि कृष्ण में सतयुग में डूबेगी, कृष्ण की दृष्टि राधा में डूबेगी। ऐसा वायब्रेशन भाई-बहन की तरफ खींचने वाला तो नहीं होगा? (जिज्ञासु – यहाँ संगमयुग में?) संगमयुग में। (जिज्ञासु ने कुछ कहा।) वायब्रेशन संगमयुग में होगा नहीं ऊँच ते ऊँच? (जिज्ञासु – भाई-बहन ...) भाई-बहन भी नहीं। वहाँ तो वायब्रेशन ही ऐसा होगा। आत्मा-आत्मा भाई-भाई। एक दूसरे के प्रति कोई भी आकर्षण नहीं। एक बाप दूसरा न कोई। जो वायब्रेशन होगा बिल्कुल शुद्ध होगा। एकदम नीचे गिरने वाली दुनिया का वायब्रेशन नहीं होगा। सतयुग में जो वायब्रेशन होंगे राधा-कृष्ण के वो नीचे गिरने वाले होंगे, गिराने वाले होंगे या ऊपर उठाने वाले होंगे? 16 कला से पौने 16 कला बनने वाले वायब्रेशन होंगे। चढ़ती कला के वायब्रेशन नहीं होंगे। इसलिए भाई-बहन ये ऊंची स्टेज नहीं है। भाई-भाई की स्टेज यही ऊँच स्टेज है। बहुत ऊँची चाढ़ी है। जो ऐसी ऊंची चाढ़ी चढ़ेंगे वो ही नई दुनिया के मालिक बनेंगे।
समयः 25.25-29.15
जिज्ञासुः बाबा, अभी जगदम्बा विधर्मियों के प्रभाव में आकर डिससर्विस कर रही है, लेकिन बाप कहता है जगदम्बा की गलती नहीं है। उसको प्रभाव में जिन्होंने लिया है उसको दण्ड जरूर मिलना है, ज्यादा दण्ड मिलना है। लेकिन बाप ने जो ज्ञान दिया हमारा अकल तो है ना। तो हमारा अकल से क्या सच है, क्या असच है, हमको ही उसको डिसाइड करना है। तो तब जगदम्बा को भी शिक्षा मिलना है ना ?
बाबाः जगदम्बा की ओर जिनकी बुद्धि आकर्षित हो रही है बाप के मुकाबले ज्यादा, उनको मुरली में रावण संप्रदाय बोला है या राम संप्रदाय बोला है? (जिज्ञासु – रावण संप्रदाय।) जिनकी बुद्धि जगदम्बा की बातों को ज्यादा सच्चा मानेगी वो साबित हो जावेंगे कि ये राक्षस संप्रदाय संप्रदाय है और उन्हीं का विनाश करेगी जगदम्बा महाकाली (का) रूप धारण करके। वंडरफुल पार्ट है।
जिज्ञासुः कुछ समय तक उसके प्रभाव में रहेगी । बाद में सच को पकड़ेगी...।
बाबाः हाँ, जी। पृथ्वी अपनी धुरी चेंज करेगी। ऐसे नहीं पृथ्वी माता असुरों का ही सपोर्ट करती रहेगी। अभी पृथ्वी माता किसको सपोर्ट दे रही है ज्यादा? भारत को सपोर्ट दे रही है या विदेशियों को सपोर्ट कर रही है? (जिज्ञासु – विदेशियों को।) ये धुरी चेंज हो जावेगी।
जिज्ञासुः ...लेकिन जगदम्बा की गलती तो हुई ना। बाप को छोड़कर उसको सपोर्ट करना।
बाबाः करनकरावनहार कौन गाया हुआ है? (जिज्ञासु – बाप।) वो करनहार भी है तो करावनहार भी है। नहीं तो शंकर की छाती पर महाकाली पांव रखती है। विरोध करना चाहिए ना। क्यों नहीं विरोध करता है? अरे भगवान ज्यादा पावरफुल है या भगवती ज्यादा पावरफुल है? (जिज्ञासु – भगवान।) फिर? वो पांव के नीचे पड़ा क्यों हुआ है चुपचाप? (जिज्ञासु – कुछ कल्याण है इसलिए।) कुछ कल्याण है। उस कल्याण को जानना सबके बस की बात नहीं है। इसलिए कहावत भी है – रचयिता बाप को पहचाना जा सकता है। लेकिन रचना को पहचानना बहुत मुश्किल है। विधिहु न नारी हृदय गति जानि। महाकाली को शंकर के छाती पर पांव दिखाते हैं लेकिन मस्तक में मूर्ति शंकर की दिखाते हैं। तो अन्दर से याद कौन है? बाप की याद भरी हुई है। वो नहीं निकल सकती। जो छाप पड़ गई वो छाप पड़ गई।
Disc.CD No.625, dated 09.09.08 at Tadepalligudem
Part-3
Time: 20.32-25.15
Student: Baba, Prajapita Brahmakumar-kumaris are mutually brothers and sisters. But the Father says Maya can enter even in the relationship of brother and sister. This is why consider yourselves to be mutually brothers. But ours is a household (pravritti), isn’t it Baba? So, parents and children, it is this relationship that continues in the Golden Age also. So, what is wrong in considering ourselves to be mutually brothers and sisters? Those who are firm brothers and sisters do not have a vicious vision.
Baba: As long as we remain in a soul conscious stage in the Brahmin world, is the abode of happiness (sukhdhaam) the highest abode for us or is the Supreme Abode (Paramdhaam) the highest abode for us? (Student: The Supreme Abode...) So, in which stage do we live? We live in a Paramdhaam like stage. The Paramdhaam like stage tells us that until we attain the stage of ‘souls are mutually brothers’, [i.e.] Paramdhaam like stage, we cannot become the ones who enter the abode of happiness. First you will have to become a child of the Father’s home. Will the entire world become a bead of the Rudramala(Rosary of Rudra) or will there be a soul, a human soul who does not become the bead of the Rudramala? All the 500 crore (5 billion) human souls are beads of the Rudramala number wise as per their purushaarth (spiritual effort). So, will everyone become brothers first or will they become brothers and sisters first? (Student: Brothers.) Our first aim is [to attain the stage of] ‘souls as brothers [among themselves]’. Later on we will go to the abode of happiness. This is why the Supreme Abode is praised as the highest abode. The abode of happiness is not praised [as the highest abode].
Student: Father, but it is a household (pravritti), isn’t it? Our aim is [to follow] the household [path], isn’t it? Supreme Abode means renunciation (nivritti).
Baba: Even in the Confluence Age when we play the part of Lakshmi and Narayan, will we play the part of the Golden Age Lakshmi Narayan or will we play the part of the Confluence Age Lakshmi Narayan? We will play the part of the Confluence Age Lakshmi-Narayan and as regards the household of the Confluence Age Lakshmi Narayan, their vibrations of the intellect; will the vibrations of the brother go towards the sister, will the vibrations of Narayan go towards Narayani, will the vibrations of Narayani go towards Narayan or will it go towards the Supreme Abode? Towards what will their vibrations be pulled? (Student: Towards the soul.) The vibrations will not be [like the vibrations] of Radha and Krishna who are attracted towards each other, will they? Their vibrations... for example, Radha will look at Krishna in the Golden Age and Krishna will look at Radha; so their vibrations (of Lakshmi-Narayan) will not be [like] the attraction between brother and sister, [will it?] (Student: Here in the Confluence Age?) In the Confluence Age. (Student said something.) Will the vibrations in the Confluence Age not be the highest on high? (Student: Brothers and sisters...) Not even brothers and sisters. There the vibrations themselves will be like this. The souls will be mutually brothers. There will not be any attraction towards each other. One Father and no one else. The vibrations will be completely pure. It will not be the vibrations of the world that experiences complete downfall. Will the vibrations of Radha and Krishna in the Golden Age undergo downfall, bring downfall or will they uplift? The vibrations will lessen from 16 celestial degrees to 15.75 celestial degrees. They will not be the vibrations of increasing celestial degrees. This is why the stage of [seeing each other as] brothers and sisters is not a high stage. The stage of [seeing each other as] brothers is a high stage. It is a very difficult climb. Only those who make such a high climb will become masters of the new world.
Time: 25.25-29.15
Student: Baba, Jagdamba is now doing disservice under the influence of the vidharmis; but the Father says that it is not the mistake of Jagdamba, those who influenced her will definitely get punishment; they will definitely get more punishment. The Father has given us knowledge; so we have wisdom, don’t we? So, on the basis of our intellect we ourselves have to decide what is correct and what is wrong. So, Jagdamba should also receive punishment, shouldn’t she?
Baba: Have those whose intellect is pulling more towards Jagdamba when compared to the Father been termed as those from Ravan’s community or Ram’s community in the Murlis? (Student: Those from Ravan’s community.) Those whose intellect considers the topics of Jagdamba to be truer will be proved to belong to the demonic community. And Jagdamba will destroy only them by taking on the form of Mahakali. It is a wonderful part.
Student: She will remain under their influence for some time. Later on she will catch the truth....
Baba: Yes. The Earth will change its axis. It is not that the Mother Earth will continue to support only the demons. Who is the Mother Earth supporting more now? Is she supporting Bhaarat or is she supporting the foreigners (videshis)? (Student: The foreigners.) This axis will change.
Student: ...Father, but she did commit a mistake, didn’t she? Jagdamba committed a mistake, didn’t she? ...She left the Father and gave them support.
Baba: Who is famous as karankaraavanhaar(The one who acts and makes the others act) ? (Student: The Father.) He is karanhaar (the one who does things himself) as well as karaavanhaar (the one who make others perform tasks). Otherwise, Mahakali steps on the chest of Shankar. He should protest, shouldn’t he? Why doesn’t he protest? Arey, is Bhagwaan (God) more powerful or is Bhagwati (Goddess) more powerful? (Students: Bhagwaan.) Then? Why is he lying silently under her feet? (Student: It is because there is some benefit.) There is some benefit. It is not within the capacity of everyone to know that benefit. This is why there is a saying as well: Someone can recognize the Creator, the Father but it is very difficult to recognize the creation. Vidhihu na naari hriday gati jaani (Not even Brahma can understand the heart of a woman). Mahakali is shown to be placing her foot on Shankar’s chest but an idol of Shankar is shown on her forehead. So, whom does she remember from within? There is the Father’s remembrance. That cannot be removed. The impression that was made is made permanent. ... (to be continued.)
भाग-3
समयः 20.32-25.15
जिज्ञासुः बाबा, प्रजापिता ब्रह्माकुमार-कुमारी भाई बहन ठहरे लेकिन बाप कहते हैं भाई बहन के संबंध में भी माया आ सकती है। इसलिए भाई-भाई समझो लेकिन हमारा तो ये प्रवृत्ति है ना बाबा। तो माँ-बाप और बच्चे – ये संबंध ही सतयुग में भी कंटिन्यू होते हैं। तो इसलिए भाई-बहन समझने में क्या गलत है? पक्का भाई-बहन होते हैं तो विकारी दृष्टि नहीं होती।
बाबाः हम जब तक ब्राह्मणों की दुनिया में आत्मिक स्थिति में रहने वाले हैं तो हमारे लिए ऊँच ते ऊँच धाम सुखधाम है या परमधाम है? (जिज्ञासु – परमधाम है...) तो हम कौनसी स्थिति में रहते हैं? परमधामी स्टेज में रहते हैं। ये परमधामी स्टेज ये बताती है कि जब तक आत्मा-आत्मा भाई-भाई परमधामी स्टेज वाले नहीं बनेंगे तब तक सुखधाम में आने वाले नहीं बन सकते। पहले बाप के घर का बच्चा बनना पड़े। रुद्रमाला का मणका सारी दुनिया बनेगी या कोई आत्मा, मनुष्यात्मा ऐसी भी होगी जो रुद्रमाला का मणका न बने? 500 करोड़ मनुष्यात्माएं सब रुद्रमाला के मणके हैं नंबरवार पुरुषार्थ अनुसार। तो सब भाई-भाई बनेंगे पहले या पहले भाई-बहन बनेंगे? (जिज्ञासु – भाई-भाई।) पहला लक्ष्य हमारा है आत्मा-आत्मा भाई-भाई। बाद में सुखधाम आवेंगे। इसलिए ऊँच ते ऊँच धाम परमधाम गाया हुआ है। सुखधाम नहीं गाया हुआ है।
जिज्ञासुः लेकिन प्रवृत्ति है ना बाप। हमारा लक्ष्य तो प्रवृत्ति है ना । परमधाम माना निवृत्ति।
बाबाः संगमयुग में भी जब हम लक्ष्मी-नारायण का पार्ट बजावेंगे तो सतयुगी लक्ष्मी-नारायण का पार्ट बजावेंगे या संगमयुगी लक्ष्मी-नारायण का पार्ट बजावेंगे? संगमयुगी लक्ष्मी-नारायण का पार्ट बजावेंगे और संगमयुगी लक्ष्मी-नारायण की जो प्रवृत्ति है वो बुद्धि का जो वायब्रेशन है वो भाई का बहन की तरफ जाएगा? नारायण का नारायणी की तरफ वायब्रेशन जाएगा या नारायणी का नारायण की तरफ वायब्रेशन जाएगा या परमधाम में जावेगा? उनका वायब्रेशन कहाँ आकर्षित करने वाला होगा? (जिज्ञासु – आत्मा की तरफ।) आपस में राधा-कृष्ण की तरफ तो एक दूसरे का वायब्रेशन खींचने वाला नहीं होगा? जो वायब्रेशन होगा... जैसे राधा की दृष्टि कृष्ण में सतयुग में डूबेगी, कृष्ण की दृष्टि राधा में डूबेगी। ऐसा वायब्रेशन भाई-बहन की तरफ खींचने वाला तो नहीं होगा? (जिज्ञासु – यहाँ संगमयुग में?) संगमयुग में। (जिज्ञासु ने कुछ कहा।) वायब्रेशन संगमयुग में होगा नहीं ऊँच ते ऊँच? (जिज्ञासु – भाई-बहन ...) भाई-बहन भी नहीं। वहाँ तो वायब्रेशन ही ऐसा होगा। आत्मा-आत्मा भाई-भाई। एक दूसरे के प्रति कोई भी आकर्षण नहीं। एक बाप दूसरा न कोई। जो वायब्रेशन होगा बिल्कुल शुद्ध होगा। एकदम नीचे गिरने वाली दुनिया का वायब्रेशन नहीं होगा। सतयुग में जो वायब्रेशन होंगे राधा-कृष्ण के वो नीचे गिरने वाले होंगे, गिराने वाले होंगे या ऊपर उठाने वाले होंगे? 16 कला से पौने 16 कला बनने वाले वायब्रेशन होंगे। चढ़ती कला के वायब्रेशन नहीं होंगे। इसलिए भाई-बहन ये ऊंची स्टेज नहीं है। भाई-भाई की स्टेज यही ऊँच स्टेज है। बहुत ऊँची चाढ़ी है। जो ऐसी ऊंची चाढ़ी चढ़ेंगे वो ही नई दुनिया के मालिक बनेंगे।
समयः 25.25-29.15
जिज्ञासुः बाबा, अभी जगदम्बा विधर्मियों के प्रभाव में आकर डिससर्विस कर रही है, लेकिन बाप कहता है जगदम्बा की गलती नहीं है। उसको प्रभाव में जिन्होंने लिया है उसको दण्ड जरूर मिलना है, ज्यादा दण्ड मिलना है। लेकिन बाप ने जो ज्ञान दिया हमारा अकल तो है ना। तो हमारा अकल से क्या सच है, क्या असच है, हमको ही उसको डिसाइड करना है। तो तब जगदम्बा को भी शिक्षा मिलना है ना ?
बाबाः जगदम्बा की ओर जिनकी बुद्धि आकर्षित हो रही है बाप के मुकाबले ज्यादा, उनको मुरली में रावण संप्रदाय बोला है या राम संप्रदाय बोला है? (जिज्ञासु – रावण संप्रदाय।) जिनकी बुद्धि जगदम्बा की बातों को ज्यादा सच्चा मानेगी वो साबित हो जावेंगे कि ये राक्षस संप्रदाय संप्रदाय है और उन्हीं का विनाश करेगी जगदम्बा महाकाली (का) रूप धारण करके। वंडरफुल पार्ट है।
जिज्ञासुः कुछ समय तक उसके प्रभाव में रहेगी । बाद में सच को पकड़ेगी...।
बाबाः हाँ, जी। पृथ्वी अपनी धुरी चेंज करेगी। ऐसे नहीं पृथ्वी माता असुरों का ही सपोर्ट करती रहेगी। अभी पृथ्वी माता किसको सपोर्ट दे रही है ज्यादा? भारत को सपोर्ट दे रही है या विदेशियों को सपोर्ट कर रही है? (जिज्ञासु – विदेशियों को।) ये धुरी चेंज हो जावेगी।
जिज्ञासुः ...लेकिन जगदम्बा की गलती तो हुई ना। बाप को छोड़कर उसको सपोर्ट करना।
बाबाः करनकरावनहार कौन गाया हुआ है? (जिज्ञासु – बाप।) वो करनहार भी है तो करावनहार भी है। नहीं तो शंकर की छाती पर महाकाली पांव रखती है। विरोध करना चाहिए ना। क्यों नहीं विरोध करता है? अरे भगवान ज्यादा पावरफुल है या भगवती ज्यादा पावरफुल है? (जिज्ञासु – भगवान।) फिर? वो पांव के नीचे पड़ा क्यों हुआ है चुपचाप? (जिज्ञासु – कुछ कल्याण है इसलिए।) कुछ कल्याण है। उस कल्याण को जानना सबके बस की बात नहीं है। इसलिए कहावत भी है – रचयिता बाप को पहचाना जा सकता है। लेकिन रचना को पहचानना बहुत मुश्किल है। विधिहु न नारी हृदय गति जानि। महाकाली को शंकर के छाती पर पांव दिखाते हैं लेकिन मस्तक में मूर्ति शंकर की दिखाते हैं। तो अन्दर से याद कौन है? बाप की याद भरी हुई है। वो नहीं निकल सकती। जो छाप पड़ गई वो छाप पड़ गई।
Disc.CD No.625, dated 09.09.08 at Tadepalligudem
Part-3
Time: 20.32-25.15
Student: Baba, Prajapita Brahmakumar-kumaris are mutually brothers and sisters. But the Father says Maya can enter even in the relationship of brother and sister. This is why consider yourselves to be mutually brothers. But ours is a household (pravritti), isn’t it Baba? So, parents and children, it is this relationship that continues in the Golden Age also. So, what is wrong in considering ourselves to be mutually brothers and sisters? Those who are firm brothers and sisters do not have a vicious vision.
Baba: As long as we remain in a soul conscious stage in the Brahmin world, is the abode of happiness (sukhdhaam) the highest abode for us or is the Supreme Abode (Paramdhaam) the highest abode for us? (Student: The Supreme Abode...) So, in which stage do we live? We live in a Paramdhaam like stage. The Paramdhaam like stage tells us that until we attain the stage of ‘souls are mutually brothers’, [i.e.] Paramdhaam like stage, we cannot become the ones who enter the abode of happiness. First you will have to become a child of the Father’s home. Will the entire world become a bead of the Rudramala(Rosary of Rudra) or will there be a soul, a human soul who does not become the bead of the Rudramala? All the 500 crore (5 billion) human souls are beads of the Rudramala number wise as per their purushaarth (spiritual effort). So, will everyone become brothers first or will they become brothers and sisters first? (Student: Brothers.) Our first aim is [to attain the stage of] ‘souls as brothers [among themselves]’. Later on we will go to the abode of happiness. This is why the Supreme Abode is praised as the highest abode. The abode of happiness is not praised [as the highest abode].
Student: Father, but it is a household (pravritti), isn’t it? Our aim is [to follow] the household [path], isn’t it? Supreme Abode means renunciation (nivritti).
Baba: Even in the Confluence Age when we play the part of Lakshmi and Narayan, will we play the part of the Golden Age Lakshmi Narayan or will we play the part of the Confluence Age Lakshmi Narayan? We will play the part of the Confluence Age Lakshmi-Narayan and as regards the household of the Confluence Age Lakshmi Narayan, their vibrations of the intellect; will the vibrations of the brother go towards the sister, will the vibrations of Narayan go towards Narayani, will the vibrations of Narayani go towards Narayan or will it go towards the Supreme Abode? Towards what will their vibrations be pulled? (Student: Towards the soul.) The vibrations will not be [like the vibrations] of Radha and Krishna who are attracted towards each other, will they? Their vibrations... for example, Radha will look at Krishna in the Golden Age and Krishna will look at Radha; so their vibrations (of Lakshmi-Narayan) will not be [like] the attraction between brother and sister, [will it?] (Student: Here in the Confluence Age?) In the Confluence Age. (Student said something.) Will the vibrations in the Confluence Age not be the highest on high? (Student: Brothers and sisters...) Not even brothers and sisters. There the vibrations themselves will be like this. The souls will be mutually brothers. There will not be any attraction towards each other. One Father and no one else. The vibrations will be completely pure. It will not be the vibrations of the world that experiences complete downfall. Will the vibrations of Radha and Krishna in the Golden Age undergo downfall, bring downfall or will they uplift? The vibrations will lessen from 16 celestial degrees to 15.75 celestial degrees. They will not be the vibrations of increasing celestial degrees. This is why the stage of [seeing each other as] brothers and sisters is not a high stage. The stage of [seeing each other as] brothers is a high stage. It is a very difficult climb. Only those who make such a high climb will become masters of the new world.
Time: 25.25-29.15
Student: Baba, Jagdamba is now doing disservice under the influence of the vidharmis; but the Father says that it is not the mistake of Jagdamba, those who influenced her will definitely get punishment; they will definitely get more punishment. The Father has given us knowledge; so we have wisdom, don’t we? So, on the basis of our intellect we ourselves have to decide what is correct and what is wrong. So, Jagdamba should also receive punishment, shouldn’t she?
Baba: Have those whose intellect is pulling more towards Jagdamba when compared to the Father been termed as those from Ravan’s community or Ram’s community in the Murlis? (Student: Those from Ravan’s community.) Those whose intellect considers the topics of Jagdamba to be truer will be proved to belong to the demonic community. And Jagdamba will destroy only them by taking on the form of Mahakali. It is a wonderful part.
Student: She will remain under their influence for some time. Later on she will catch the truth....
Baba: Yes. The Earth will change its axis. It is not that the Mother Earth will continue to support only the demons. Who is the Mother Earth supporting more now? Is she supporting Bhaarat or is she supporting the foreigners (videshis)? (Student: The foreigners.) This axis will change.
Student: ...Father, but she did commit a mistake, didn’t she? Jagdamba committed a mistake, didn’t she? ...She left the Father and gave them support.
Baba: Who is famous as karankaraavanhaar(The one who acts and makes the others act) ? (Student: The Father.) He is karanhaar (the one who does things himself) as well as karaavanhaar (the one who make others perform tasks). Otherwise, Mahakali steps on the chest of Shankar. He should protest, shouldn’t he? Why doesn’t he protest? Arey, is Bhagwaan (God) more powerful or is Bhagwati (Goddess) more powerful? (Students: Bhagwaan.) Then? Why is he lying silently under her feet? (Student: It is because there is some benefit.) There is some benefit. It is not within the capacity of everyone to know that benefit. This is why there is a saying as well: Someone can recognize the Creator, the Father but it is very difficult to recognize the creation. Vidhihu na naari hriday gati jaani (Not even Brahma can understand the heart of a woman). Mahakali is shown to be placing her foot on Shankar’s chest but an idol of Shankar is shown on her forehead. So, whom does she remember from within? There is the Father’s remembrance. That cannot be removed. The impression that was made is made permanent. ... (to be continued.)
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Re: Q&A: PBK Murli discussions
वार्तालाप-625, ताडेपल्लिगुडेम, दिनांक 09.09.08
भाग-4
समयः 29.18-31.50
जिज्ञासुः बाबा, शंकर के चित्र में हाथ में त्रिशूल और डमरू दिखाते हैं। इसका अर्थ क्या है?
बाबाः त्रिशूल का अर्थ है 3 शूलों का ज्ञान। तीन प्रकार का ज्ञान है – ब्रह्मा का ज्ञान, ये एक कांटा है, एक बाण है। विष्णु का ज्ञान, प्रैक्टिकल नॉलेज। ये दूसरे प्रकार का ज्ञान है। शंकर का ज्ञान। ये तीसरे प्रकार का बाण है। ये तीनों प्रकार के शूल त्रिशूल में दिखाए गये हैं। ये हाथ की बात नहीं है। बुद्धि रूपी हाथ की बात है, जिसके बुद्धि रूपी हाथ में तीनों मूर्तियों का ज्ञान भरा हुआ है वो है त्रिशूली हाथ। हाथ में, बुद्धि रूपी हाथ में, जिसके सदैव त्रिशूल रहता है। और डमरू बंधा रहता है। डमरू एक तरफ नहीं बजता है। दोनों तरफ बजता है। वो तो वंडरफुल पार्ट है। दायें वालों को भी संतुष्ट कर देगा, जो भारतवासी हैं और बायीं ओर वाले वाममार्गियों को भी संतुष्ट कर देगा। असुरों को भी वो ज्ञान संतुष्ट करता है। शंकर ऐसा ज्ञान सुनाता है कि सारे विश्व का पिता साबित हो जाता है। सब उसे मानते हैं। विष्णु को सिर्फ देवताएं मानते हैं और शंकर को? देवताएं भी मानते हैं, असुर भी मानते हैं, विद्वान, पण्डित, आचार्य, ऋषि, मुनि भी शंकर को मानते हैं। तो एकतरफा ज्ञान नहीं सुनाता है। दोनों तरफ बजता है। जैसी-जैसी आत्मा वैसा-वैसा ज्ञान सुनाय देते हैं।
समयः 32.00-33.40
जिज्ञासुः बाबा, राज्य स्थापना करने में 60, 50-60 वर्ष लगते हैं। वास्तव मैं 76 में पुरुषोत्तम संगमयुग शुरू हुआ माना बाप का पार्ट, असली ज्ञान। उससे 60 वर्ष एड करेंगे तो दो हज़ार छत्तीस होता है। ... राज्य स्थापना होने में 50-60 वर्ष लगता है। तो तब स्थापना... मैं ऐसा समझता हूँ क्योंकि 50-60 वर्ष वास्तविक ज्ञान जब शुरु होता है तबसे गिनना चाहिए।
बाबाः माना 35 और 25, थर्टी फाइव यर्स प्लस ट्वेंटी फाइव यर्स, कितने साल हुए? सिक्स्टी यर्स हो गए। तो पूरी राजधानी कब स्थापन होगी? जब संगमयुग पूरा होगा तो पूरी राजधानी एक तरफ स्थापन होगी और पूरा ही विनाश भी दुनिया का हो जावेगा। स्थापना भी हो जावेगी, पालना भी हो जावेगी परिपूर्ण, और विनाश भी हो जावेगा परिपूर्ण।
समयः 33.45-36.15
जिज्ञासुः बाबा, दिल्ली परिस्तान बनती है और दिल्ली कब्रिस्तान बनती है। चैतन्य की बात है।
बाबाः जो चैतन्य में बात लागू होती है वो बेहद में भी लागू होती है, हद में भी लागू होती है। चैतन्य दिल्ली के लिए जो बात लागू होगी वो जड़ दिल्ली के लिए भी लागू होगी। पहले चैतन्य में सुधार आएगा या पहले जड़ में सुधार आवेगा? (जिज्ञासु – चैतन्य) तो चैतन्य दिल्ली पहले सुधरती है और जड़ दिल्ली बाद में सुधरती है। चैतन्य दिल्ली पहले कब्रिस्तान सो परिस्तान और जड़ दिल्ली? बाद में कब्रिस्तान सो परिस्तान बनती है।
जिज्ञासुः तेरे बहाने..., प्वाइंट है ना बाबा।
बाबाः हाँ, जी। (जिज्ञासु – सर्व का भला।) हाँ, जी-2।
जिज्ञासुः लेकिन बाप, परिस्तान का गायन क्रिश्चियन धर्म में है ना।
बाबाः ये मुसलमानों का शब्द है – परिस्तान। अंग्रेजों में पैराडाईज़ कहा जाता है। हाँ, जी।
जिज्ञासुः मैं समझता हूँ फरिश्ता...
बाबाः परियों का स्थान, जो ज्ञान की परियाँ हैं। इन्द्र की सभा में कितनी परियाँ गाई हुई हैं? तीन परियाँ विशेष गाई हुई हैं। रम्भा, उर्वशी और मेनका। जैसे नाम हैं वैसे उनके काम हैं। तो परिस्तान नाम गाया हुआ है। ज्ञान की परियाँ हैं। ज्ञान योग के पंखों से उड़ती रहती हैं। इसलिए नाम परिस्तान गाया हुआ है।
समयः 36.17-39.10
जिज्ञासुः बाबा, वो सतयुग से त्रेता आता है। दो कलाएं कम होती है। त्रेता में राम और सीता को राजगद्दी पर बिठाया है। वहाँ अनुशासनहीनता के कारण उनको राजगद्दी पर बिठाया है। जब अनुशासनहीनता होती है कुछ न कुछ दुःख और अशान्ति की निशानी होना चाहिए ना बाबा।
बाबाः हाँ, जी, तो दो कलाएं कम दिखाई गई हैं ना।
जिज्ञासुः हाँ, बाबा, लेकिन सतयुग त्रेता में दुःख, अशान्ति की नाम निशान नहीं होता।
बाबाः ऐसा होता है कभी कोई चीज़ अंश मात्र होती है तो देखने में नहीं आती है। ऐसे ही वहाँ दो कला अनुशासनहीनता हो गई तो देखने में नहीं आती है। सेवेन्टी सिक्स में देखने वाले को देखने में पहले आ गया कि ब्राह्मणों की संगमयुगी दुनिया में रावण राज्य चल रहा है। सबको देखने में आ गया क्या? (जिज्ञासु – नहीं) क्यों नहीं आ गया? क्योंकि रावण राज्य 100% स्टेज में नहीं था। और अभी परसेन्टेज बढ़ता जा रहा है। सबको देखने में आ रहा है। जो बेसिक में चलने वाले बड़े-बड़े धुरंधर हैं, फालोअर्स वो भी आगे चलके कहेंगे ये रावण राज्य है। दुनिया में रावण राज्य नहीं है। ब्राह्मणों की दुनिया में रावण राज्य है। अभी तो मुट्ठीभर एडवांस पार्टी के लोग कहते हैं। तो थोड़ी चीज़ देखने में नहीं आती है। जब उसका प्रमाण बढ़ गया, आठ कला हो गया तो देखने वाले देखते हैं। व्यास पहले देख लेता है। सबकी नज़र में तो नहीं आता। व्यास ने जो द्वापर के आदि में शास्त्र लिखे वो शास्त्र भी सतोप्रधान थे या तमोप्रधान थे? (जिज्ञासु – सतोप्रधान) सतोप्रधान थे। सच्चाई थी। उनकी आँखों ने सच्चाई को देखा। तो पता चला कि ये दुःख की दुनिया है सुख की दुनिया नहीं है।
Disc.CD No.625, dated 09.09.08 at Tadepalligudem
Part-4
Time: 29.18-31.50
Student: Baba, in the picture of Shankar trishul (trident) and damru (small drum) are shown in his hands. What does it mean?
Baba: Trishul (trident) means the knowledge of three shuul (arrows). There are three kinds of knowledge – Brahma’s knowledge – this is one arrow. Vishnu’s knowledge, practical knowledge. This is a second kind of knowledge. Shankar’s knowledge, this is a third kind of arrow. These three kinds of dents have been shown in the trishul. It is not about this hand. It is about the hand like intellect. The one whose hand like intellect contains the knowledge of all the three personalities. That is the hand that holds the trishul. The one whose hand, hand like intellect always holds the trishul. And there is a damru tied to it. The damru does not make sound on one side. It makes sound on both sides. That is a wonderful part. He will satisfy those on the right side, the Indians as well as the leftists (those from the left side of the tree) on the left side. That knowledge satisfies the demons as well. Shankar narrates such knowledge that he proves to be the Father of the entire world. Everyone believes in him. Vishnu is accepted only by the deities. And Shankar? The deities, the demons, the scholars, pandits, teachers, sages, saints also believe in Shankar. So, he does not narrate one-sided knowledge. It (the damru) produces sound on both sides. He narrates knowledge according to the nature of the soul.
Time: 32.00-33.40
Student: Baba, it takes 60, 50-60 years to establish the kingdom. Actually, the Elevated Confluence Age started in 76. It means the Father’s part, the true knowledge. If you add 60 years to that, then it comes to 2036. ... It takes 50-60 years for the kingdom to be established. ... then the establishment takes place. I feel so because 50-60 years should be counted from the time when the actual knowledge is given.
Baba: It means 35 and 25. Thirty five years plus twenty five years add up to how many years? It is sixty years. So, when will the entire capital be established? When the Confluence Age is over, then on one side the entire capital will be established and the complete destruction of the world will also take place. Establishment, complete sustenance and complete destruction will also take place.
Time: 33.45-36.15
Student: Baba, Delhi becomes paristaan (an abode of fairies) and Delhi becomes kabristaan (graveyard). It is about a living one.
Baba: Whatever is applicable for a living thing… it is applicable in the unlimited as well as in the limited. Whatever applies to the living Delhi will apply to the non-living Delhi as well. Will the living [Delhi] reform first or will the non-living [Delhi] reform first? (Student: The living one.) So, the living Delhi reforms first and the non-living Delhi reforms later. The living Delhi becomes an abode of fairies from a graveyard first and the non-living Delhi changes from a graveyard to an abode of fairies later on.
Student: Baba, there is a point ‘tere bahaane’ (because of you...), isn’t it?
Baba: Yes. (Student: The benefit of everyone [takes place].) Yes, yes.
Student: But Father, the abode of fairies is famous in Christianity, isn’t it?
Baba: The word paristaan is a word of the Muslims. English people call it Paradise. Yes.
Student: I feel farishtaa (angel)...
Baba: A place of fairies, the fairies of knowledge. How many fairies (pariyaan) are famous in the Court of Indra? Three fairies are especially famous: Rambha, Urvashi and Menaka. As are their names so are their tasks. So, the name paristaan is famous. They are the fairies of knowledge. They keep flying with the wings of knowledge and Yoga. This is why the name paristaan is famous.
Time: 36.17-39.10
Student: Baba, the Silver Age comes after the Golden Age. Two celestial degrees are reduced. Ram and Sita are shown to be seated on the throne in the Silver Age. They were made to sit on the royal throne because of indiscipline [among the subjects]. Baba, when there is indiscipline then there should be some sign of sorrow and restlessness, shouldn’t there?
Baba: Yes, so absence of two celestial degrees is shown, isn’t it?
Student: Yes, Baba, but there isn’t any name and trace of sorrow or restlessness in the Golden and Silver Ages.
Baba: What happens is that when something is in traces, it is not visible. Similarly, there was indiscipline to the extent of two celestial degrees there. So, it is not visible. In 76 an observer came to know that a kingdom of Ravan is going on in the Confluence Age Brahmin world. Did everyone come to know? (Student: No.) Why did they not come to know? It is because the kingdom of Ravan was not in a 100% stage. And now the percentage is increasing. It is visible to everyone. The great leaders, the followers following the basic [knowledge] will also say in future that this is a kingdom of Ravan. There is not the kingdom of Ravan in the world. There is the kingdom of Ravan in the Brahmin world. Now, just a handful of people, the people of the Advance Party say [this]. So, a little thing is not visible. When its quantity increases, when it becomes eight celestial degrees then the observers observe. Vyas observes it first. It is not visible to everyone. Were the scriptures that Vyas wrote in the beginning of the Copper Age satopradhaan or tamopradhaan? (Students: Satopradhaan.) They were satopradhaan. There was truth [in them]. His eyes saw the truth. So, he came to know that this is a world of sorrow; it is not a world of happiness. ... (to be continued.)
भाग-4
समयः 29.18-31.50
जिज्ञासुः बाबा, शंकर के चित्र में हाथ में त्रिशूल और डमरू दिखाते हैं। इसका अर्थ क्या है?
बाबाः त्रिशूल का अर्थ है 3 शूलों का ज्ञान। तीन प्रकार का ज्ञान है – ब्रह्मा का ज्ञान, ये एक कांटा है, एक बाण है। विष्णु का ज्ञान, प्रैक्टिकल नॉलेज। ये दूसरे प्रकार का ज्ञान है। शंकर का ज्ञान। ये तीसरे प्रकार का बाण है। ये तीनों प्रकार के शूल त्रिशूल में दिखाए गये हैं। ये हाथ की बात नहीं है। बुद्धि रूपी हाथ की बात है, जिसके बुद्धि रूपी हाथ में तीनों मूर्तियों का ज्ञान भरा हुआ है वो है त्रिशूली हाथ। हाथ में, बुद्धि रूपी हाथ में, जिसके सदैव त्रिशूल रहता है। और डमरू बंधा रहता है। डमरू एक तरफ नहीं बजता है। दोनों तरफ बजता है। वो तो वंडरफुल पार्ट है। दायें वालों को भी संतुष्ट कर देगा, जो भारतवासी हैं और बायीं ओर वाले वाममार्गियों को भी संतुष्ट कर देगा। असुरों को भी वो ज्ञान संतुष्ट करता है। शंकर ऐसा ज्ञान सुनाता है कि सारे विश्व का पिता साबित हो जाता है। सब उसे मानते हैं। विष्णु को सिर्फ देवताएं मानते हैं और शंकर को? देवताएं भी मानते हैं, असुर भी मानते हैं, विद्वान, पण्डित, आचार्य, ऋषि, मुनि भी शंकर को मानते हैं। तो एकतरफा ज्ञान नहीं सुनाता है। दोनों तरफ बजता है। जैसी-जैसी आत्मा वैसा-वैसा ज्ञान सुनाय देते हैं।
समयः 32.00-33.40
जिज्ञासुः बाबा, राज्य स्थापना करने में 60, 50-60 वर्ष लगते हैं। वास्तव मैं 76 में पुरुषोत्तम संगमयुग शुरू हुआ माना बाप का पार्ट, असली ज्ञान। उससे 60 वर्ष एड करेंगे तो दो हज़ार छत्तीस होता है। ... राज्य स्थापना होने में 50-60 वर्ष लगता है। तो तब स्थापना... मैं ऐसा समझता हूँ क्योंकि 50-60 वर्ष वास्तविक ज्ञान जब शुरु होता है तबसे गिनना चाहिए।
बाबाः माना 35 और 25, थर्टी फाइव यर्स प्लस ट्वेंटी फाइव यर्स, कितने साल हुए? सिक्स्टी यर्स हो गए। तो पूरी राजधानी कब स्थापन होगी? जब संगमयुग पूरा होगा तो पूरी राजधानी एक तरफ स्थापन होगी और पूरा ही विनाश भी दुनिया का हो जावेगा। स्थापना भी हो जावेगी, पालना भी हो जावेगी परिपूर्ण, और विनाश भी हो जावेगा परिपूर्ण।
समयः 33.45-36.15
जिज्ञासुः बाबा, दिल्ली परिस्तान बनती है और दिल्ली कब्रिस्तान बनती है। चैतन्य की बात है।
बाबाः जो चैतन्य में बात लागू होती है वो बेहद में भी लागू होती है, हद में भी लागू होती है। चैतन्य दिल्ली के लिए जो बात लागू होगी वो जड़ दिल्ली के लिए भी लागू होगी। पहले चैतन्य में सुधार आएगा या पहले जड़ में सुधार आवेगा? (जिज्ञासु – चैतन्य) तो चैतन्य दिल्ली पहले सुधरती है और जड़ दिल्ली बाद में सुधरती है। चैतन्य दिल्ली पहले कब्रिस्तान सो परिस्तान और जड़ दिल्ली? बाद में कब्रिस्तान सो परिस्तान बनती है।
जिज्ञासुः तेरे बहाने..., प्वाइंट है ना बाबा।
बाबाः हाँ, जी। (जिज्ञासु – सर्व का भला।) हाँ, जी-2।
जिज्ञासुः लेकिन बाप, परिस्तान का गायन क्रिश्चियन धर्म में है ना।
बाबाः ये मुसलमानों का शब्द है – परिस्तान। अंग्रेजों में पैराडाईज़ कहा जाता है। हाँ, जी।
जिज्ञासुः मैं समझता हूँ फरिश्ता...
बाबाः परियों का स्थान, जो ज्ञान की परियाँ हैं। इन्द्र की सभा में कितनी परियाँ गाई हुई हैं? तीन परियाँ विशेष गाई हुई हैं। रम्भा, उर्वशी और मेनका। जैसे नाम हैं वैसे उनके काम हैं। तो परिस्तान नाम गाया हुआ है। ज्ञान की परियाँ हैं। ज्ञान योग के पंखों से उड़ती रहती हैं। इसलिए नाम परिस्तान गाया हुआ है।
समयः 36.17-39.10
जिज्ञासुः बाबा, वो सतयुग से त्रेता आता है। दो कलाएं कम होती है। त्रेता में राम और सीता को राजगद्दी पर बिठाया है। वहाँ अनुशासनहीनता के कारण उनको राजगद्दी पर बिठाया है। जब अनुशासनहीनता होती है कुछ न कुछ दुःख और अशान्ति की निशानी होना चाहिए ना बाबा।
बाबाः हाँ, जी, तो दो कलाएं कम दिखाई गई हैं ना।
जिज्ञासुः हाँ, बाबा, लेकिन सतयुग त्रेता में दुःख, अशान्ति की नाम निशान नहीं होता।
बाबाः ऐसा होता है कभी कोई चीज़ अंश मात्र होती है तो देखने में नहीं आती है। ऐसे ही वहाँ दो कला अनुशासनहीनता हो गई तो देखने में नहीं आती है। सेवेन्टी सिक्स में देखने वाले को देखने में पहले आ गया कि ब्राह्मणों की संगमयुगी दुनिया में रावण राज्य चल रहा है। सबको देखने में आ गया क्या? (जिज्ञासु – नहीं) क्यों नहीं आ गया? क्योंकि रावण राज्य 100% स्टेज में नहीं था। और अभी परसेन्टेज बढ़ता जा रहा है। सबको देखने में आ रहा है। जो बेसिक में चलने वाले बड़े-बड़े धुरंधर हैं, फालोअर्स वो भी आगे चलके कहेंगे ये रावण राज्य है। दुनिया में रावण राज्य नहीं है। ब्राह्मणों की दुनिया में रावण राज्य है। अभी तो मुट्ठीभर एडवांस पार्टी के लोग कहते हैं। तो थोड़ी चीज़ देखने में नहीं आती है। जब उसका प्रमाण बढ़ गया, आठ कला हो गया तो देखने वाले देखते हैं। व्यास पहले देख लेता है। सबकी नज़र में तो नहीं आता। व्यास ने जो द्वापर के आदि में शास्त्र लिखे वो शास्त्र भी सतोप्रधान थे या तमोप्रधान थे? (जिज्ञासु – सतोप्रधान) सतोप्रधान थे। सच्चाई थी। उनकी आँखों ने सच्चाई को देखा। तो पता चला कि ये दुःख की दुनिया है सुख की दुनिया नहीं है।
Disc.CD No.625, dated 09.09.08 at Tadepalligudem
Part-4
Time: 29.18-31.50
Student: Baba, in the picture of Shankar trishul (trident) and damru (small drum) are shown in his hands. What does it mean?
Baba: Trishul (trident) means the knowledge of three shuul (arrows). There are three kinds of knowledge – Brahma’s knowledge – this is one arrow. Vishnu’s knowledge, practical knowledge. This is a second kind of knowledge. Shankar’s knowledge, this is a third kind of arrow. These three kinds of dents have been shown in the trishul. It is not about this hand. It is about the hand like intellect. The one whose hand like intellect contains the knowledge of all the three personalities. That is the hand that holds the trishul. The one whose hand, hand like intellect always holds the trishul. And there is a damru tied to it. The damru does not make sound on one side. It makes sound on both sides. That is a wonderful part. He will satisfy those on the right side, the Indians as well as the leftists (those from the left side of the tree) on the left side. That knowledge satisfies the demons as well. Shankar narrates such knowledge that he proves to be the Father of the entire world. Everyone believes in him. Vishnu is accepted only by the deities. And Shankar? The deities, the demons, the scholars, pandits, teachers, sages, saints also believe in Shankar. So, he does not narrate one-sided knowledge. It (the damru) produces sound on both sides. He narrates knowledge according to the nature of the soul.
Time: 32.00-33.40
Student: Baba, it takes 60, 50-60 years to establish the kingdom. Actually, the Elevated Confluence Age started in 76. It means the Father’s part, the true knowledge. If you add 60 years to that, then it comes to 2036. ... It takes 50-60 years for the kingdom to be established. ... then the establishment takes place. I feel so because 50-60 years should be counted from the time when the actual knowledge is given.
Baba: It means 35 and 25. Thirty five years plus twenty five years add up to how many years? It is sixty years. So, when will the entire capital be established? When the Confluence Age is over, then on one side the entire capital will be established and the complete destruction of the world will also take place. Establishment, complete sustenance and complete destruction will also take place.
Time: 33.45-36.15
Student: Baba, Delhi becomes paristaan (an abode of fairies) and Delhi becomes kabristaan (graveyard). It is about a living one.
Baba: Whatever is applicable for a living thing… it is applicable in the unlimited as well as in the limited. Whatever applies to the living Delhi will apply to the non-living Delhi as well. Will the living [Delhi] reform first or will the non-living [Delhi] reform first? (Student: The living one.) So, the living Delhi reforms first and the non-living Delhi reforms later. The living Delhi becomes an abode of fairies from a graveyard first and the non-living Delhi changes from a graveyard to an abode of fairies later on.
Student: Baba, there is a point ‘tere bahaane’ (because of you...), isn’t it?
Baba: Yes. (Student: The benefit of everyone [takes place].) Yes, yes.
Student: But Father, the abode of fairies is famous in Christianity, isn’t it?
Baba: The word paristaan is a word of the Muslims. English people call it Paradise. Yes.
Student: I feel farishtaa (angel)...
Baba: A place of fairies, the fairies of knowledge. How many fairies (pariyaan) are famous in the Court of Indra? Three fairies are especially famous: Rambha, Urvashi and Menaka. As are their names so are their tasks. So, the name paristaan is famous. They are the fairies of knowledge. They keep flying with the wings of knowledge and Yoga. This is why the name paristaan is famous.
Time: 36.17-39.10
Student: Baba, the Silver Age comes after the Golden Age. Two celestial degrees are reduced. Ram and Sita are shown to be seated on the throne in the Silver Age. They were made to sit on the royal throne because of indiscipline [among the subjects]. Baba, when there is indiscipline then there should be some sign of sorrow and restlessness, shouldn’t there?
Baba: Yes, so absence of two celestial degrees is shown, isn’t it?
Student: Yes, Baba, but there isn’t any name and trace of sorrow or restlessness in the Golden and Silver Ages.
Baba: What happens is that when something is in traces, it is not visible. Similarly, there was indiscipline to the extent of two celestial degrees there. So, it is not visible. In 76 an observer came to know that a kingdom of Ravan is going on in the Confluence Age Brahmin world. Did everyone come to know? (Student: No.) Why did they not come to know? It is because the kingdom of Ravan was not in a 100% stage. And now the percentage is increasing. It is visible to everyone. The great leaders, the followers following the basic [knowledge] will also say in future that this is a kingdom of Ravan. There is not the kingdom of Ravan in the world. There is the kingdom of Ravan in the Brahmin world. Now, just a handful of people, the people of the Advance Party say [this]. So, a little thing is not visible. When its quantity increases, when it becomes eight celestial degrees then the observers observe. Vyas observes it first. It is not visible to everyone. Were the scriptures that Vyas wrote in the beginning of the Copper Age satopradhaan or tamopradhaan? (Students: Satopradhaan.) They were satopradhaan. There was truth [in them]. His eyes saw the truth. So, he came to know that this is a world of sorrow; it is not a world of happiness. ... (to be continued.)
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Re: Q&A: PBK Murli discussions
वार्तालाप-625, ताडेपल्लिगुडेम, दिनांक 09.09.08
भाग-5
समयः 39.13-41.41
जिज्ञासुः ...किसी आत्मा को भी दुख-अशान्ति अनुभव नहीं होती है लेकिन अंश मात्र...
बाबाः वो अंशमात्र तो जो सतयुग का पहला जन्म है उस पहले जन्म में गिरती कला अंशमात्र है या नहीं है? (जिज्ञासु – है बाबा।) है। उस गिरती कला को, अंशमात्र को सब ने देख लिया या पहले कोई एक देखता है? एक देखता है कि राधा की दृष्टि कृष्ण में, कृष्ण की दृष्टि राधा में ही डूबना ये अंशमात्र अपवित्रता है। ये सुख भोगने की प्रवृत्ति है। इन्द्रियों से ही सुख भोगा जाता है। चाहे वो इन्द्रियाँ सूक्ष्म हों और चाहे वो इन्द्रियाँ स्थूल हों। स्थूल सुख ज्यादा पाप बनाता है और सूक्ष्म सुख पाप बनाता ही नहीं ऐसे लगता है, जैसे गिरती कला है ही नहीं लेकिन है ही नहीं तो कला कैसे कम हो जाती है? सुख भोगते-भोगते आत्मा की शक्ति क्षीण होती है। इसलिए अभी ऐसी स्टेज बनानी है। आँखों का जो सूक्ष्म सुख अगर कहीं मिलता है वो भी नहीं लेना है। एक शिवबाबा दूसरा न कोई। तो चढ़ती कला बनी रहेगी। (जिज्ञासु ने कुछ कहा।) अगर खुदा न खास्ता कहीं किसी को देखना भी पड़ता है तो भी कौन याद रहे? एक शिवबाबा याद रहे। तो उतना पतन नहीं होगा। जितनी प्रैक्टिस होगी याद की उतना पतन से बच जावेंगे। (जिज्ञासु ने कुछ कहा।) हाँ, जी।
समयः 41.43-44.57
बाबाः एक प्रश्न आया है। शंकर के मन्दिर ज्यादातर उत्तर प्रदेश में देखने में आते हैं और दक्षिण भारत में शिवलिंग के मन्दिर ज्यादा देखने में आते हैं। इसका क्या राज़ है?
उत्तर: (जिज्ञासु – विदेशी बाप को...) हाँ, जो विदेशी हैं वो निराकार को याद करने वाले हैं। और स्वदेशी साकार में निराकार को याद करने वाले हैं। ज्यादा बुद्धि तीखी किसकी होती है? (जिज्ञासु: विदेशियों की।) तीखी बुद्धि होने के कारण विदेशी बाप को पहचान लेते हैं और विदेशी बाप को प्रत्यक्ष करते हैं। और साकार को याद करने वाले उतने तीखी बुद्धि नहीं होते हैं। भावना ज्यादा होती है लेकिन बाप किसको पसन्द करता है? बुद्धिमानों का बाप बुद्धिमानों की बुद्धि है। वो बुद्धिमानों को ज्यादा पसन्द करता है जो बुद्धि के अहंकार वाले होते हैं, एटम बम्ब बनाने वाले या दिलवालों को पसन्द करता है? (सभी – दिल वाले।) दिलवाले बच्चे ही तन-मन-धन से पूरे स्वाहा हो पाते हैं। जो दिमाग वाले हैं वो तन-मन-धन से पूरे स्वाहा नहीं हो पाते हैं। इसलिए दक्षिण भारत में शिवलिंग निराकार की याद ज्यादा है क्योंकि बोला हुआ है दक्षिण भारत है भारत का विदेश। उत्तर भारत को विदेश नहीं कहेंगे। भगवान विदेश में आता है या भारत में आता है? उत्तर भारत में आता है या दक्षिण भारत में प्रत्यक्ष होता है? उत्तर भारत में प्रत्यक्ष होता है। लेकिन प्रत्यक्ष करने के निमित्त कौन बनते हैं? विदेशी बाप को प्रत्यक्ष करने के निमित्त बनते हैं। लेकिन विदेशी आत्मा होती है या विदेशी शरीर होता है? हम बच्चे आत्मा हैं या शरीर हैं? (सभी – आत्मा।) हम तो आत्मा हैं। हम कोई विदेशी नहीं हैं। ये बात जो कहते हैं कि बाबा ने हमको विदेशी बताय दिया वो देहभान में बोलते हैं या आत्माभिमान में बोलते हैं? अरे आत्मा ने तो 84 जन्म पता नहीं कहाँ के कहाँ लिये? ये पक्का है कि दक्षिण भारत में ही जन्म लिये? (जिज्ञासु – लेकिन ज्यादा जन्म उत्तर भारत में लिया है।) हाँ। उत्तर भारत में जन्म लिया है इसलिए ज्ञान को गहराई से पकड़ा है। विदेशी उतना ज्ञान को गहराई से नहीं पकड़ते हैं।
टाईम हो गया।
वार्तालाप-625, दिगनेर-2, दिनांक 22.09.08
समयः 51.06-51.30
बाबाः संगमयुग में जो सन्यासी बैठे हुए हैं सफेद कपड़े वाले वो ये ही सिखाते हैं कि भगवान बाप जिस लिंग में आता है, लिंग रूप शरीर में आता है, उसको तुम मत पूजा करो। पूजा ही करनी है तो हमारी पूजा करो।
समयः 51.32-53.19
जिज्ञासु ने कुछ पूछा।
बाबाः सूरज को?
जिज्ञासुः हाथ क्यों जोड़ते हैं भक्ति मार्ग में?
बाबाः भक्तिमार्ग में सूरज को जल चढ़ाते हैं। सूरज को सूर्य नमस्कार करते हैं। सूरज के हाथ जोड़ते हैं। ये यादगार कहाँ की है? (जिज्ञासु: संगमयुग।) कैसे? शिवबाप जब आते हैं तो सूर्य को पहले ज्ञान देते हैं। जिस सूर्य को पहले ज्ञान देते हैं, वो ही ज्ञान सूर्य के रूप में संसार में प्रत्यक्ष होने वाली आत्मा जब बेसिक नालेज में आती है तो ब्रह्माकुमारियाँ बैठ करके उसको बेसिक ज्ञान का जल चढ़ाती हैं। उसके साथ बुद्धि रूपी हाथ जोड़ना चाहती हैं परन्तु ऐसा हो सकता है क्या? जो सारी दुनिया को ज्ञान देने वाला है उसको ज्ञान कौन देगा? कौन कन्विन्स करेगा?
समयः 53.22-54.29
जिज्ञासुः बाबा, सर्प कितनी बार खल छोड़ता है?
बाबाः तीन चार बार सर्प खल छोड़ता है। जो सर्प जैसा विकारी पार्ट बजाने वाले जन्म-जन्मान्तर के रुद्रमाला के मणके हैं उनकी जब मनसा से शूटिंग होती है, चार युगों की तो चार युगों की शूटिंग में चार बार देहभान की खल छोड़ते हैं। चौथी बार में जाकरके उनकी बुद्धि ठिकाने लगती है। ऐसे ही जो स्थूल शरीर है 5 तत्वों का, वो भी 4 बार शूटिंग करता है।
Disc.CD No.625, dated 09.09.08 at Tadepalligudem
Part-5
Time: 39.13-41.41
Student: ...no soul experiences sorrow or restlessness, but a trace (ansh maatra) of it...
Baba: As regards that trace, is there a trace of the descending celestial degrees in the first birth of the Golden Age or not? (Student: There is, Baba.) There is. Did everyone notice those descending celestial degrees, that trace or does one person notice it first? One person notices that Radha looking at Krishna and Krishna looking at Radha is a trace of impurity. This is a tendency to experience pleasure. Pleasure is experienced only through the indriya(Parts of the body and the sense organs). Whether the indriya are subtle or physical. Physical pleasure leads to the accumulation of more sins and it appears as if the subtle pleasure does not lead to the accumulation of sins at all; [it appears as if] the celestial degrees are not decreasing at all. But if there is no decrease at all then how do the celestial degrees decrease? While experiencing pleasure the power of the soul decreases. This is why now we have to attain such a stage. We should not even take the subtle pleasure of the eyes if we find it anywhere. One ShivBaba and no one else. Then [you will be in the stage of] increasing celestial degrees. (Student said something.) Even if you have to see someone by chance, whom should you remember? One ShivBaba should be in your mind. Then you won’t experience that much downfall. The more you practice remembrance the more you will be saved from downfall. (Student said something.) Yes.
Time: 41.43-44.57
Baba: A question has been asked: Shankar’s temples are mostly found in Uttar Pradesh (a north Indian state). And the temples of Shivling are mostly found in south India. What is its secret?
Answer: (Student: The foreigners... the Father.) Yes, the foreigners remember the incorporeal One and the swadeshis (those who belong to the country India) remember the incorporeal One within the corporeal one. Whose intellect is sharper? (Student: The foreigners.) Because of having a sharper intellect the foreigners recognize the Father and they reveal the Father. Those who remember the corporeal one do not have such a sharp intellect. They are more emotional. But whom does the Father like? The Father of the intelligent ones is the intellect of the intellectuals. Does He like the intelligent ones who are proud of their intellect and make the atom bombs or does He like those who are emotional (dilwaale)? (Everyone said: Those who are emotional.) It is the emotional children who are able to sacrifice their body, mind and wealth completely. Those who have a [sharp] intellect are unable to sacrifice their body, mind and wealth completely. This is why the incorporeal Shivling(A symbolic representation of the male organ, in the path of Bhakti it represents the incorporeal form of Shiva) is remembered more in south India because it has been said that south India is India’s abroad. North India will not be called a foreign land. Does God come in the foreign countries (videsh) or in India? Does He come in north India or is He revealed in south India? He is revealed in northern India. But who becomes instrument to reveal Him? The foreigners (videshis) become instruments to reveal Him. But is a soul foreigner or is a body foreigner? Are we children souls or bodies? (Everyone said: Souls.) We are souls. We are not foreigners. Those who say ‘Baba has called us foreigners’ speak [this] in body consciousness or in soul consciousness? Arey, who knows where the soul had its 84 births? Is it confirm that it was born only in south India? (Student: But it had more number of births in northern India.) Yes. It was born in northern India that is why it has grasped the knowledge deeply. The foreigners do not grasp the knowledge much deeply.
The time is up.
Disc.CD No.625, dated 22.09.08 at Digner-II
Time: 51.06-51.30
Baba: The white-robed sanyasis who are sitting in the Confluence Age teach this very thing: Don’t worship the ling, the ling like body in which God, the Father comes; if you wish to worship [someone], worship us.
Time: 51.32-53.19
Student asked something.
Baba: Sun?
Student: Why do people fold their hands [in front of the Sun] in the path of Bhakti?
Baba: In the path of Bhakti, they offer water to the Sun. They bow before the Sun. They fold their hands in front of the Sun. It is a memorial of which time? (Students: Confluence Age.) How? When the Father Shiva comes, then He gives knowledge to the Sun first. The Sun to whom He gives the knowledge first, that very soul who is revealed in the world as the Sun of Knowledge, when it enters the path of the basic knowledge then the Brahmakumaris sit and offer him the water of the basic knowledge. They wish to join their intellect like hand with him. But can it be possible? Who can give knowledge to the one who gives knowledge to the entire world? Who can convince him?
Time: 53.22-54.29
Student: Baba, how many times does a snake shed its skin?
Baba: A snake sheds its skin three or four times. When the beads of the Rudramala who play a snake like vicious part for many births perform the shooting of four ages through the mind, then they shed the skin of body consciousness four times during the shooting of the four ages. Their intellect is settled in the fourth attempt. Similarly, the physical body made of the five elements also performs shooting four times. ... (to be continued.)
भाग-5
समयः 39.13-41.41
जिज्ञासुः ...किसी आत्मा को भी दुख-अशान्ति अनुभव नहीं होती है लेकिन अंश मात्र...
बाबाः वो अंशमात्र तो जो सतयुग का पहला जन्म है उस पहले जन्म में गिरती कला अंशमात्र है या नहीं है? (जिज्ञासु – है बाबा।) है। उस गिरती कला को, अंशमात्र को सब ने देख लिया या पहले कोई एक देखता है? एक देखता है कि राधा की दृष्टि कृष्ण में, कृष्ण की दृष्टि राधा में ही डूबना ये अंशमात्र अपवित्रता है। ये सुख भोगने की प्रवृत्ति है। इन्द्रियों से ही सुख भोगा जाता है। चाहे वो इन्द्रियाँ सूक्ष्म हों और चाहे वो इन्द्रियाँ स्थूल हों। स्थूल सुख ज्यादा पाप बनाता है और सूक्ष्म सुख पाप बनाता ही नहीं ऐसे लगता है, जैसे गिरती कला है ही नहीं लेकिन है ही नहीं तो कला कैसे कम हो जाती है? सुख भोगते-भोगते आत्मा की शक्ति क्षीण होती है। इसलिए अभी ऐसी स्टेज बनानी है। आँखों का जो सूक्ष्म सुख अगर कहीं मिलता है वो भी नहीं लेना है। एक शिवबाबा दूसरा न कोई। तो चढ़ती कला बनी रहेगी। (जिज्ञासु ने कुछ कहा।) अगर खुदा न खास्ता कहीं किसी को देखना भी पड़ता है तो भी कौन याद रहे? एक शिवबाबा याद रहे। तो उतना पतन नहीं होगा। जितनी प्रैक्टिस होगी याद की उतना पतन से बच जावेंगे। (जिज्ञासु ने कुछ कहा।) हाँ, जी।
समयः 41.43-44.57
बाबाः एक प्रश्न आया है। शंकर के मन्दिर ज्यादातर उत्तर प्रदेश में देखने में आते हैं और दक्षिण भारत में शिवलिंग के मन्दिर ज्यादा देखने में आते हैं। इसका क्या राज़ है?
उत्तर: (जिज्ञासु – विदेशी बाप को...) हाँ, जो विदेशी हैं वो निराकार को याद करने वाले हैं। और स्वदेशी साकार में निराकार को याद करने वाले हैं। ज्यादा बुद्धि तीखी किसकी होती है? (जिज्ञासु: विदेशियों की।) तीखी बुद्धि होने के कारण विदेशी बाप को पहचान लेते हैं और विदेशी बाप को प्रत्यक्ष करते हैं। और साकार को याद करने वाले उतने तीखी बुद्धि नहीं होते हैं। भावना ज्यादा होती है लेकिन बाप किसको पसन्द करता है? बुद्धिमानों का बाप बुद्धिमानों की बुद्धि है। वो बुद्धिमानों को ज्यादा पसन्द करता है जो बुद्धि के अहंकार वाले होते हैं, एटम बम्ब बनाने वाले या दिलवालों को पसन्द करता है? (सभी – दिल वाले।) दिलवाले बच्चे ही तन-मन-धन से पूरे स्वाहा हो पाते हैं। जो दिमाग वाले हैं वो तन-मन-धन से पूरे स्वाहा नहीं हो पाते हैं। इसलिए दक्षिण भारत में शिवलिंग निराकार की याद ज्यादा है क्योंकि बोला हुआ है दक्षिण भारत है भारत का विदेश। उत्तर भारत को विदेश नहीं कहेंगे। भगवान विदेश में आता है या भारत में आता है? उत्तर भारत में आता है या दक्षिण भारत में प्रत्यक्ष होता है? उत्तर भारत में प्रत्यक्ष होता है। लेकिन प्रत्यक्ष करने के निमित्त कौन बनते हैं? विदेशी बाप को प्रत्यक्ष करने के निमित्त बनते हैं। लेकिन विदेशी आत्मा होती है या विदेशी शरीर होता है? हम बच्चे आत्मा हैं या शरीर हैं? (सभी – आत्मा।) हम तो आत्मा हैं। हम कोई विदेशी नहीं हैं। ये बात जो कहते हैं कि बाबा ने हमको विदेशी बताय दिया वो देहभान में बोलते हैं या आत्माभिमान में बोलते हैं? अरे आत्मा ने तो 84 जन्म पता नहीं कहाँ के कहाँ लिये? ये पक्का है कि दक्षिण भारत में ही जन्म लिये? (जिज्ञासु – लेकिन ज्यादा जन्म उत्तर भारत में लिया है।) हाँ। उत्तर भारत में जन्म लिया है इसलिए ज्ञान को गहराई से पकड़ा है। विदेशी उतना ज्ञान को गहराई से नहीं पकड़ते हैं।
टाईम हो गया।
वार्तालाप-625, दिगनेर-2, दिनांक 22.09.08
समयः 51.06-51.30
बाबाः संगमयुग में जो सन्यासी बैठे हुए हैं सफेद कपड़े वाले वो ये ही सिखाते हैं कि भगवान बाप जिस लिंग में आता है, लिंग रूप शरीर में आता है, उसको तुम मत पूजा करो। पूजा ही करनी है तो हमारी पूजा करो।
समयः 51.32-53.19
जिज्ञासु ने कुछ पूछा।
बाबाः सूरज को?
जिज्ञासुः हाथ क्यों जोड़ते हैं भक्ति मार्ग में?
बाबाः भक्तिमार्ग में सूरज को जल चढ़ाते हैं। सूरज को सूर्य नमस्कार करते हैं। सूरज के हाथ जोड़ते हैं। ये यादगार कहाँ की है? (जिज्ञासु: संगमयुग।) कैसे? शिवबाप जब आते हैं तो सूर्य को पहले ज्ञान देते हैं। जिस सूर्य को पहले ज्ञान देते हैं, वो ही ज्ञान सूर्य के रूप में संसार में प्रत्यक्ष होने वाली आत्मा जब बेसिक नालेज में आती है तो ब्रह्माकुमारियाँ बैठ करके उसको बेसिक ज्ञान का जल चढ़ाती हैं। उसके साथ बुद्धि रूपी हाथ जोड़ना चाहती हैं परन्तु ऐसा हो सकता है क्या? जो सारी दुनिया को ज्ञान देने वाला है उसको ज्ञान कौन देगा? कौन कन्विन्स करेगा?
समयः 53.22-54.29
जिज्ञासुः बाबा, सर्प कितनी बार खल छोड़ता है?
बाबाः तीन चार बार सर्प खल छोड़ता है। जो सर्प जैसा विकारी पार्ट बजाने वाले जन्म-जन्मान्तर के रुद्रमाला के मणके हैं उनकी जब मनसा से शूटिंग होती है, चार युगों की तो चार युगों की शूटिंग में चार बार देहभान की खल छोड़ते हैं। चौथी बार में जाकरके उनकी बुद्धि ठिकाने लगती है। ऐसे ही जो स्थूल शरीर है 5 तत्वों का, वो भी 4 बार शूटिंग करता है।
Disc.CD No.625, dated 09.09.08 at Tadepalligudem
Part-5
Time: 39.13-41.41
Student: ...no soul experiences sorrow or restlessness, but a trace (ansh maatra) of it...
Baba: As regards that trace, is there a trace of the descending celestial degrees in the first birth of the Golden Age or not? (Student: There is, Baba.) There is. Did everyone notice those descending celestial degrees, that trace or does one person notice it first? One person notices that Radha looking at Krishna and Krishna looking at Radha is a trace of impurity. This is a tendency to experience pleasure. Pleasure is experienced only through the indriya(Parts of the body and the sense organs). Whether the indriya are subtle or physical. Physical pleasure leads to the accumulation of more sins and it appears as if the subtle pleasure does not lead to the accumulation of sins at all; [it appears as if] the celestial degrees are not decreasing at all. But if there is no decrease at all then how do the celestial degrees decrease? While experiencing pleasure the power of the soul decreases. This is why now we have to attain such a stage. We should not even take the subtle pleasure of the eyes if we find it anywhere. One ShivBaba and no one else. Then [you will be in the stage of] increasing celestial degrees. (Student said something.) Even if you have to see someone by chance, whom should you remember? One ShivBaba should be in your mind. Then you won’t experience that much downfall. The more you practice remembrance the more you will be saved from downfall. (Student said something.) Yes.
Time: 41.43-44.57
Baba: A question has been asked: Shankar’s temples are mostly found in Uttar Pradesh (a north Indian state). And the temples of Shivling are mostly found in south India. What is its secret?
Answer: (Student: The foreigners... the Father.) Yes, the foreigners remember the incorporeal One and the swadeshis (those who belong to the country India) remember the incorporeal One within the corporeal one. Whose intellect is sharper? (Student: The foreigners.) Because of having a sharper intellect the foreigners recognize the Father and they reveal the Father. Those who remember the corporeal one do not have such a sharp intellect. They are more emotional. But whom does the Father like? The Father of the intelligent ones is the intellect of the intellectuals. Does He like the intelligent ones who are proud of their intellect and make the atom bombs or does He like those who are emotional (dilwaale)? (Everyone said: Those who are emotional.) It is the emotional children who are able to sacrifice their body, mind and wealth completely. Those who have a [sharp] intellect are unable to sacrifice their body, mind and wealth completely. This is why the incorporeal Shivling(A symbolic representation of the male organ, in the path of Bhakti it represents the incorporeal form of Shiva) is remembered more in south India because it has been said that south India is India’s abroad. North India will not be called a foreign land. Does God come in the foreign countries (videsh) or in India? Does He come in north India or is He revealed in south India? He is revealed in northern India. But who becomes instrument to reveal Him? The foreigners (videshis) become instruments to reveal Him. But is a soul foreigner or is a body foreigner? Are we children souls or bodies? (Everyone said: Souls.) We are souls. We are not foreigners. Those who say ‘Baba has called us foreigners’ speak [this] in body consciousness or in soul consciousness? Arey, who knows where the soul had its 84 births? Is it confirm that it was born only in south India? (Student: But it had more number of births in northern India.) Yes. It was born in northern India that is why it has grasped the knowledge deeply. The foreigners do not grasp the knowledge much deeply.
The time is up.
Disc.CD No.625, dated 22.09.08 at Digner-II
Time: 51.06-51.30
Baba: The white-robed sanyasis who are sitting in the Confluence Age teach this very thing: Don’t worship the ling, the ling like body in which God, the Father comes; if you wish to worship [someone], worship us.
Time: 51.32-53.19
Student asked something.
Baba: Sun?
Student: Why do people fold their hands [in front of the Sun] in the path of Bhakti?
Baba: In the path of Bhakti, they offer water to the Sun. They bow before the Sun. They fold their hands in front of the Sun. It is a memorial of which time? (Students: Confluence Age.) How? When the Father Shiva comes, then He gives knowledge to the Sun first. The Sun to whom He gives the knowledge first, that very soul who is revealed in the world as the Sun of Knowledge, when it enters the path of the basic knowledge then the Brahmakumaris sit and offer him the water of the basic knowledge. They wish to join their intellect like hand with him. But can it be possible? Who can give knowledge to the one who gives knowledge to the entire world? Who can convince him?
Time: 53.22-54.29
Student: Baba, how many times does a snake shed its skin?
Baba: A snake sheds its skin three or four times. When the beads of the Rudramala who play a snake like vicious part for many births perform the shooting of four ages through the mind, then they shed the skin of body consciousness four times during the shooting of the four ages. Their intellect is settled in the fourth attempt. Similarly, the physical body made of the five elements also performs shooting four times. ... (to be continued.)
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Re: Q&A: PBK Murli discussions
वार्तालाप-625, दिगनेर-2, दिनांक 22.09.08
भाग-6
समयः 54.31- 57.50
जिज्ञासुः बाबा, मुरली में बाबा ने बोला है कि कर्मातीत अवस्था अभी हो जाए तो शरीर छोड़ना पड़ेगा।
बाबाः बिल्कुल।
जिज्ञासुः कब के लिए बोला ये?
बाबाः जब कर्मातीत अवस्था हो जाए।
जिज्ञासुः बाबा, अगर कर्मातीत अवस्था हो जाए तो शरीर छोड़ना पड़ेगा। दुबारा जन्म लेना पड़ेगा?
बाबाः शरीर छोड़ना बाबा सिखाते हैं या देहभान छोड़ना सिखाते हैं? (सभी ने कहा-देहभान।) दो तरह से होगा। कोई तो देहभान छोड़ेंगे माने मर गए। जीतेजी मर गए। और कोई शरीर छोड़ करके मरेंगे। कौनसा अच्छा है? (जिज्ञासु – जीतेजी मरना।) देहभान को छोड़ेंगे, उन्होंने ही वास्तव में कर्मातीत अवस्था को पाया है। कर्म भी करते रहें और कर्म से बुद्धि अटैच न हो। डिटैच बनी रहे। कोई कर्म करते हैं ना। कोई का संग करते हैं ना। कोई के संग के रंग में आते हैं ना। तो वो याद आता रहता है कि नहीं? लेकिन एक सेकण्ड भी याद न आए फिर। संग में आए परन्तु याद उसकी न आए। उसको कहते हैं कर्मातीत। कर्म तो किया लेकिन कर्म का अटैचमेंट बिल्कुल नहीं लगा। ऐसी याद में, गहरी याद में रहा। ये मन की गति है। मन अगर दूसरी तरफ लगा हुआ है और कोई कारखाने में काम कर रहा है, या कोई जा रहा है रास्ते में चलते-चलते मन दूसरी ओर लगा हुआ है, महबूबा की याद में लगा हुआ है, और बाद में उससे कोई पूछता है, तुम्हारे सामने से कौन-कौन लोग गुज़र गए? तो उसको पता ही नहीं पड़ता। जब पता ही नहीं है तो याद किसकी आएगी? नहीं तो आँखों का ये हिसाब है कि आँखें जिसको देखती हैं उसकी याद जरूर आती है। ऐसे ही और इन्द्रियों का हिसाब है। चाहे वो भ्रष्ट इन्द्रियाँ हों और चाहे वो श्रेष्ठ इन्द्रियाँ हों जिसका भी संग करेंगी अटैचमेंट पूर्वक अगर संग करेंगी तो याद जरूर आवेगा और डिटैच होकर शिवबाबा की याद में संग करेंगी तो याद आवेगा ही नहीं।
समयः 57.53-59.27
जिज्ञासुः बाबा, हर चीज़ चार अवस्थाओं से पसार होता है।
बाबाः हाँ, जी।
जिज्ञासुः चार अवस्थाओं से पसार होता है। ... ये लक्ष्मी-नारायण, राधा-कृष्ण...
बाबाः क्यों? ब्रह्मा की आत्मा संगमयुग में चार अवस्थाओं से पसार नहीं होती है? तमोप्रधान बनती है कि नहीं? अगर तमोप्रधान नहीं बनती है तो हार्टफेल कैसे होता है? राजयोगी का तो कभी हार्टफेल होता ही नहीं, ऐसा मुरली में बोला है।
जिज्ञासुः प्रजापिता वाली आत्मा...
बाबाः प्रजापिता वाली आत्मा भी सन् 76 से बाप उसके तन में प्रत्यक्ष होता है। चार युगों की शूटिंग चलती है। चारों युगों की शूटिंग में सतोप्रधान, सतोसामान्य, रजो और तमो – ये चार अवस्थाओं से ज्ञान गुज़रता है या नहीं गुज़रता है? दुनिया की कोई भी चीज़ क्यों न हो, शूटिंग पीरियड ही क्यों न हो, चार अवस्थाओं से पसार जरूर होना पड़ता है।
समयः 59.31-01.02.31
जिज्ञासुः बाबा, शिवरात्रि का मतलब क्या है?
बाबाः शिवबाबा की रात्रि, जिस रात्रि में शिवबाबा आता है। आता है माना संसार के सामने प्रत्यक्ष होता है। एक तो मन-बुद्धि में आता है। जैसे सन् 76 में आया। तो मन-बुद्धि में प्रत्यक्ष हुआ या संसार के सामने प्रत्यक्ष हुआ? मन-बुद्धि में प्रत्यक्ष हुआ। जैसे कोई आत्मा गर्भ में आती है तो गर्भ में आती है या संसार के सामने आती है? गर्भ में आती है। तो सन् 76 वो गुप्त प्रवेश की बात है। सबको पता नहीं चलता। जो ज्ञानी तू आत्माएं हैं, बुद्धिवादी हैं, वो ही पहचान पाती। और जब बच्चा जन्म लेता है तो सबको पता चल जाता है। ऐसे ही भगवान बाप शिव जब संसार में सबके सामने प्रत्यक्ष होगा तो फिर गुप्त नहीं रहेगा। सब कहेंगे कि भगवान बाप आ गया। ऐसे नहीं कि सिर्फ ब्रह्माकुमार-कुमारियाँ कहेंगे कि बाप आ गया। सारी दुनिया मानेगी कि भगवान इस सृष्टि पर आ गया । उसको कहेंगे शिवरात्रि, घोर अज्ञान अंधकार की रात्रि। वो कृष्ण के द्वारा बाप प्रत्यक्ष होता है बाद में बच्चे के रूप में। सन् 76 में बच्चे के रूप में नहीं प्रत्यक्ष होता है। सन् 76 का टाइम वो टाइम है जब सारी दुनिया तो अज्ञान अंधकार में होती ही है, लेकिन सारा ब्राह्मण परिवार भी अज्ञान अंधकार में आ जाता है। ब्राह्मणों की दुनिया भी अज्ञान अंधकार में डूब जाती है। इसलिए कहते हैं कि विदेशी बाप को पहले पहचानते हैं। सन् 76 हुआ रात्रि के 12 बजे। दुनियावालों ने भी नहीं पहचाना और ब्राह्मणों की दुनियावालों ने भी नहीं पहचाना।
Disc.CD No.625, dated 22.09.08 at Digner-II
Part-6
Time: 54.31- 57.50
Student: Baba, Baba has said in the Murli that if you achieve the karmaatiit stage(The stage beyond karma) now, you will have to leave the body.
Baba: Definitely.
Student: For which time was this said?
Baba: It is when you achieve the karmaatiit stage.
Student: Baba, when we achieve the karmaatiit stage we will have to leave the body. Then, will we have to be born again?
Baba: Does Baba teach us to leave the body or does He teach us to leave the body consciousness? It will take place in two ways. Some will leave the body consciousness. It means that they died, they died while being alive. And some will leave their body and die. Which one is better? (Student: To die while being alive.) Only those who leave the body consciousness have achieved the karmaatiit stage in reality. You should continue to perform actions and the intellect should not be attached to the actions. It should remain detached. We perform some actions, don’t we? We keep the company of someone, don’t we? We are coloured by the company of someone, aren’t we? So, does he keep coming to our mind or not? But he shouldn’t come to our mind even for a second. He should remain in our company, but his thoughts should not come to our mind. That is called karmaatiit. An action (karma) was certainly performed, but there was no attachment of the karma. He remained in such remembrance, such deep remembrance. This is the way (gati) the mind acts. If the mind [of a person] is engaged somewhere else and if the person is working in a factory or if someone is walking on the street and his mind is engaged somewhere else, it is busy thinking of his beloved, and later on if someone asks him: Who all passed in front of you? Then, he does not know it at all. When he doesn’t know it at all, then whom will he remember? Otherwise, the rule of eyes is such that the person whom the eyes see, he definitely comes to the mind. Similar is the case with the other indriya(Parts of the body and the sense organs). Whether they are the corrupt indriya or the elevated indirya, the company of whichever person they keep, if they keep [his company] with attachment, he will definitely come to the mind. And if they keep the company [of any person] in the remembrance of ShivBaba being detached, then he will not come to the mind at all.
Time: 57.53-59.27
Student: Baba, everything passes through the four stages.
Baba: Yes.
Student: It passes through four stages. ... these Lakshmi and Narayan, Radha and Krishna...
Baba: Why? Doesn’t the soul of Brahma pass through the four stages in the Confluence Age? Does it become tamopradhaan or not? If it does not become tamopradhaan, how does it suffer a heart failure? It has been said in the Murli that a rajyogi never suffers a heart failure.
Student: The soul of Prajapita…
Baba: As regards the soul of Prajapita also, the Father is revealed through his body from the year 76. The shooting of the four ages takes place. During the shooting of all the four ages, does the knowledge pass through the four stages [i.e.] satopradhaan, satosaamaanya, rajo and tamo or not? Be it anything in the world, be it the shooting period itself, it has to pass through the four stages without fail.
Time: 59.31-01.02.31
Student: Baba, what is meant by Shivraatri?
Baba: ShivBaba’s raatri (night), the night in which ShivBaba comes. ‘He comes’ means He is revealed before the world. One thing is that He comes in the mind and intellect, just as He came in the year 76. So, was He revealed in the mind and intellect or was He revealed in front of the world? He was revealed in the mind and intellect. For example, when a soul comes in the womb, then does it come in the womb or does it come in front of the world? It comes in the womb. So, it is a secret entrance in the year 76. Everyone does not come to know. Only the knowledgeable souls, the intellectuals are able to recognize [Him]. And when the child is born then everyone comes to know. Similarly, when God, the Father Shiva is revealed in front of the world, in front of everyone then He will not remain hidden. Everyone will say that God, the Father has come. It is not that only the Brahmakumar-kumaris will say that the Father has come. The entire world will believe that God has come in this world. That will be called Shivraatri, the night of the deep darkness of ignorance. The Father is revealed through Krishna in the form of a child later on. He is not revealed in the form of a child in the year 76. The time of the year 76 is a time when there is the night of ignorance not only in the entire world but the entire Brahmin family also comes in the night of ignorance. The Brahmin world also drowns in the darkness of ignorance. This is why it is said that the foreigners recognize the Father first. The year 76 is [like] 12 O’clock in the night. Neither the people of the world recognized [Him] nor the people of the Brahmin world recognized [Him]. ... (to be continued.)
भाग-6
समयः 54.31- 57.50
जिज्ञासुः बाबा, मुरली में बाबा ने बोला है कि कर्मातीत अवस्था अभी हो जाए तो शरीर छोड़ना पड़ेगा।
बाबाः बिल्कुल।
जिज्ञासुः कब के लिए बोला ये?
बाबाः जब कर्मातीत अवस्था हो जाए।
जिज्ञासुः बाबा, अगर कर्मातीत अवस्था हो जाए तो शरीर छोड़ना पड़ेगा। दुबारा जन्म लेना पड़ेगा?
बाबाः शरीर छोड़ना बाबा सिखाते हैं या देहभान छोड़ना सिखाते हैं? (सभी ने कहा-देहभान।) दो तरह से होगा। कोई तो देहभान छोड़ेंगे माने मर गए। जीतेजी मर गए। और कोई शरीर छोड़ करके मरेंगे। कौनसा अच्छा है? (जिज्ञासु – जीतेजी मरना।) देहभान को छोड़ेंगे, उन्होंने ही वास्तव में कर्मातीत अवस्था को पाया है। कर्म भी करते रहें और कर्म से बुद्धि अटैच न हो। डिटैच बनी रहे। कोई कर्म करते हैं ना। कोई का संग करते हैं ना। कोई के संग के रंग में आते हैं ना। तो वो याद आता रहता है कि नहीं? लेकिन एक सेकण्ड भी याद न आए फिर। संग में आए परन्तु याद उसकी न आए। उसको कहते हैं कर्मातीत। कर्म तो किया लेकिन कर्म का अटैचमेंट बिल्कुल नहीं लगा। ऐसी याद में, गहरी याद में रहा। ये मन की गति है। मन अगर दूसरी तरफ लगा हुआ है और कोई कारखाने में काम कर रहा है, या कोई जा रहा है रास्ते में चलते-चलते मन दूसरी ओर लगा हुआ है, महबूबा की याद में लगा हुआ है, और बाद में उससे कोई पूछता है, तुम्हारे सामने से कौन-कौन लोग गुज़र गए? तो उसको पता ही नहीं पड़ता। जब पता ही नहीं है तो याद किसकी आएगी? नहीं तो आँखों का ये हिसाब है कि आँखें जिसको देखती हैं उसकी याद जरूर आती है। ऐसे ही और इन्द्रियों का हिसाब है। चाहे वो भ्रष्ट इन्द्रियाँ हों और चाहे वो श्रेष्ठ इन्द्रियाँ हों जिसका भी संग करेंगी अटैचमेंट पूर्वक अगर संग करेंगी तो याद जरूर आवेगा और डिटैच होकर शिवबाबा की याद में संग करेंगी तो याद आवेगा ही नहीं।
समयः 57.53-59.27
जिज्ञासुः बाबा, हर चीज़ चार अवस्थाओं से पसार होता है।
बाबाः हाँ, जी।
जिज्ञासुः चार अवस्थाओं से पसार होता है। ... ये लक्ष्मी-नारायण, राधा-कृष्ण...
बाबाः क्यों? ब्रह्मा की आत्मा संगमयुग में चार अवस्थाओं से पसार नहीं होती है? तमोप्रधान बनती है कि नहीं? अगर तमोप्रधान नहीं बनती है तो हार्टफेल कैसे होता है? राजयोगी का तो कभी हार्टफेल होता ही नहीं, ऐसा मुरली में बोला है।
जिज्ञासुः प्रजापिता वाली आत्मा...
बाबाः प्रजापिता वाली आत्मा भी सन् 76 से बाप उसके तन में प्रत्यक्ष होता है। चार युगों की शूटिंग चलती है। चारों युगों की शूटिंग में सतोप्रधान, सतोसामान्य, रजो और तमो – ये चार अवस्थाओं से ज्ञान गुज़रता है या नहीं गुज़रता है? दुनिया की कोई भी चीज़ क्यों न हो, शूटिंग पीरियड ही क्यों न हो, चार अवस्थाओं से पसार जरूर होना पड़ता है।
समयः 59.31-01.02.31
जिज्ञासुः बाबा, शिवरात्रि का मतलब क्या है?
बाबाः शिवबाबा की रात्रि, जिस रात्रि में शिवबाबा आता है। आता है माना संसार के सामने प्रत्यक्ष होता है। एक तो मन-बुद्धि में आता है। जैसे सन् 76 में आया। तो मन-बुद्धि में प्रत्यक्ष हुआ या संसार के सामने प्रत्यक्ष हुआ? मन-बुद्धि में प्रत्यक्ष हुआ। जैसे कोई आत्मा गर्भ में आती है तो गर्भ में आती है या संसार के सामने आती है? गर्भ में आती है। तो सन् 76 वो गुप्त प्रवेश की बात है। सबको पता नहीं चलता। जो ज्ञानी तू आत्माएं हैं, बुद्धिवादी हैं, वो ही पहचान पाती। और जब बच्चा जन्म लेता है तो सबको पता चल जाता है। ऐसे ही भगवान बाप शिव जब संसार में सबके सामने प्रत्यक्ष होगा तो फिर गुप्त नहीं रहेगा। सब कहेंगे कि भगवान बाप आ गया। ऐसे नहीं कि सिर्फ ब्रह्माकुमार-कुमारियाँ कहेंगे कि बाप आ गया। सारी दुनिया मानेगी कि भगवान इस सृष्टि पर आ गया । उसको कहेंगे शिवरात्रि, घोर अज्ञान अंधकार की रात्रि। वो कृष्ण के द्वारा बाप प्रत्यक्ष होता है बाद में बच्चे के रूप में। सन् 76 में बच्चे के रूप में नहीं प्रत्यक्ष होता है। सन् 76 का टाइम वो टाइम है जब सारी दुनिया तो अज्ञान अंधकार में होती ही है, लेकिन सारा ब्राह्मण परिवार भी अज्ञान अंधकार में आ जाता है। ब्राह्मणों की दुनिया भी अज्ञान अंधकार में डूब जाती है। इसलिए कहते हैं कि विदेशी बाप को पहले पहचानते हैं। सन् 76 हुआ रात्रि के 12 बजे। दुनियावालों ने भी नहीं पहचाना और ब्राह्मणों की दुनियावालों ने भी नहीं पहचाना।
Disc.CD No.625, dated 22.09.08 at Digner-II
Part-6
Time: 54.31- 57.50
Student: Baba, Baba has said in the Murli that if you achieve the karmaatiit stage(The stage beyond karma) now, you will have to leave the body.
Baba: Definitely.
Student: For which time was this said?
Baba: It is when you achieve the karmaatiit stage.
Student: Baba, when we achieve the karmaatiit stage we will have to leave the body. Then, will we have to be born again?
Baba: Does Baba teach us to leave the body or does He teach us to leave the body consciousness? It will take place in two ways. Some will leave the body consciousness. It means that they died, they died while being alive. And some will leave their body and die. Which one is better? (Student: To die while being alive.) Only those who leave the body consciousness have achieved the karmaatiit stage in reality. You should continue to perform actions and the intellect should not be attached to the actions. It should remain detached. We perform some actions, don’t we? We keep the company of someone, don’t we? We are coloured by the company of someone, aren’t we? So, does he keep coming to our mind or not? But he shouldn’t come to our mind even for a second. He should remain in our company, but his thoughts should not come to our mind. That is called karmaatiit. An action (karma) was certainly performed, but there was no attachment of the karma. He remained in such remembrance, such deep remembrance. This is the way (gati) the mind acts. If the mind [of a person] is engaged somewhere else and if the person is working in a factory or if someone is walking on the street and his mind is engaged somewhere else, it is busy thinking of his beloved, and later on if someone asks him: Who all passed in front of you? Then, he does not know it at all. When he doesn’t know it at all, then whom will he remember? Otherwise, the rule of eyes is such that the person whom the eyes see, he definitely comes to the mind. Similar is the case with the other indriya(Parts of the body and the sense organs). Whether they are the corrupt indriya or the elevated indirya, the company of whichever person they keep, if they keep [his company] with attachment, he will definitely come to the mind. And if they keep the company [of any person] in the remembrance of ShivBaba being detached, then he will not come to the mind at all.
Time: 57.53-59.27
Student: Baba, everything passes through the four stages.
Baba: Yes.
Student: It passes through four stages. ... these Lakshmi and Narayan, Radha and Krishna...
Baba: Why? Doesn’t the soul of Brahma pass through the four stages in the Confluence Age? Does it become tamopradhaan or not? If it does not become tamopradhaan, how does it suffer a heart failure? It has been said in the Murli that a rajyogi never suffers a heart failure.
Student: The soul of Prajapita…
Baba: As regards the soul of Prajapita also, the Father is revealed through his body from the year 76. The shooting of the four ages takes place. During the shooting of all the four ages, does the knowledge pass through the four stages [i.e.] satopradhaan, satosaamaanya, rajo and tamo or not? Be it anything in the world, be it the shooting period itself, it has to pass through the four stages without fail.
Time: 59.31-01.02.31
Student: Baba, what is meant by Shivraatri?
Baba: ShivBaba’s raatri (night), the night in which ShivBaba comes. ‘He comes’ means He is revealed before the world. One thing is that He comes in the mind and intellect, just as He came in the year 76. So, was He revealed in the mind and intellect or was He revealed in front of the world? He was revealed in the mind and intellect. For example, when a soul comes in the womb, then does it come in the womb or does it come in front of the world? It comes in the womb. So, it is a secret entrance in the year 76. Everyone does not come to know. Only the knowledgeable souls, the intellectuals are able to recognize [Him]. And when the child is born then everyone comes to know. Similarly, when God, the Father Shiva is revealed in front of the world, in front of everyone then He will not remain hidden. Everyone will say that God, the Father has come. It is not that only the Brahmakumar-kumaris will say that the Father has come. The entire world will believe that God has come in this world. That will be called Shivraatri, the night of the deep darkness of ignorance. The Father is revealed through Krishna in the form of a child later on. He is not revealed in the form of a child in the year 76. The time of the year 76 is a time when there is the night of ignorance not only in the entire world but the entire Brahmin family also comes in the night of ignorance. The Brahmin world also drowns in the darkness of ignorance. This is why it is said that the foreigners recognize the Father first. The year 76 is [like] 12 O’clock in the night. Neither the people of the world recognized [Him] nor the people of the Brahmin world recognized [Him]. ... (to be continued.)
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arjun
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Re: Q&A: PBK Murli discussions
वार्तालाप-625, दिगनेर-2, दिनांक 22.09.08
भाग-7
समयः 01.02.50-01.04.27
जिज्ञासु ने कुछ पूछा।
बाबाः माताएं?
जिज्ञासुः बांधेली माताएं हैं ...
बाबाः हाँ, यज्ञ के आदि में जैसे 300-400 कन्याओं-माताओं को बंधन पड़ा हुआ था, सात-सात तालों के अन्दर रखी गईं और उनको बाबा के पास कराची में नहीं जाने दिया गया। अटूट बंधन रहा। जब कर्मबंधन खलास हुआ तो ऐसा माहौल बन गया कि हिन्दुस्तान-पाकिस्तान की लड़ाई हुई, खून-खराबा हुआ। ट्रेनें की ट्रेनें काट डाली गईं। और अपनी-अपनी भगदड़ पड़ गई। बंधन डालने वाले भूल गए कि इनको बंधन में रखना है, अपने साथ लेना है। छोड़ के भाग गए। ऐसे ही फिर अभी ऐसे ही होगा। जिन बांधेली माताओं को बहुत बंधन हैं, बंधन में डालने वालों का पता ही नहीं चलेगा कहाँ चले गए।
समयः 01.04.36-01.06.17
जिज्ञासुः बाबा, एक है सच्ची गीता और एक है झूठी गीता। उनमें से सच्ची गीता कौनसी है?
बाबाः शिवबाबा सच्चा है या कृष्ण की आत्मा सच्ची है? (सभी ने कहा – शिवबाबा।) शिव तो जन्म मरण के चक्कर में नहीं आता और कृष्ण की आत्मा तो जन्म-मरण के चक्र में आती है। तो जो जन्म-मरण के चक्र में आती है वो पूर्व जन्म की बातों को भूल जाती है या याद रखती है? पूर्व जन्म की बातें भूल जाती है। तो सच्ची बात कहाँ से बताएगा? और शिवबाबा वो तो जन्म-मरण के चक्र में आता ही नहीं। तो इसलिए कुछ भी भूलता ही नहीं। वो तो जो कुछ बताएगा वो सब सच्चा ही सच्चा बताएगा। वो आता है तो सच्चा ज्ञान सुनाकर सच्च खण्ड की स्थापना करता है। राम-कृष्ण की आत्माएं तो 84 जन्म इसी सृष्टि पर रहती हैं। फिर भी दुनिया नर्क बनती जाती है, नीचे गिरती जाती है या सचखंड बनती है? (जिज्ञासु – नीचे गिरती जाती है।) नर्क बनती जाती है। झूठ से होता है नरक। राम और कृष्ण दोनों झूठे बन जाते हैं।
समयः 01.06.24-01.07.13
जिज्ञासुः बाबा, 23-24 साल की माता सेवा कर सकती है क्या कम्पिल में?
बाबाः दूसरी बुजुर्ग माताएं वहाँ मौजूद हैं तो कर सकती है और दूसरी बुजुर्ग माताएं वहाँ मौजूद नहीं हैं तो कम्पिल में तो क्या, कहीं भी बाहर की दुनिया में निकल करके सर्विस नहीं करना चाहिए कम उमर की माताओं को। दुनिया बड़ी गंदी है। अपनी संभाल अपने आपे ही करनी है।
समयः 01.07.18-01.07.38
जिज्ञासुः बाबा, जैसे एक वाणी बोले कि बाबा की संसार है।
बाबाः हाँ, तो क्या हुआ? (जिज्ञासु – इसका अर्थ?) जो आत्माएं 84 जन्म लगातार बाबा के साथ रही होंगी उनको बाबा ही संसार दिखाई पड़ेगा कि कोई दूसरी आत्मा संसार दिखाई पड़ेगी? (जिज्ञासु – बाबा ही दिखाई पड़ेगा।) उन्हीं के लिए बोला है।
समयः 01.07.41-01.08.06
जिज्ञासुः जिसने भठ्ठी नहीं की है वो संगठन के क्लास में जा सकती है या नहीं जा सकती है?
बाबाः संगठन के सभी क्लास में जा सकती है। बाबा के क्लास में नहीं आना चाहिए।
अच्छा, टाईम हो गया।
Disc.CD No.625, dated 22.09.08 at Digner-II
Part-7
Time: 01.02.50-01.04.27
A student asked something.
Baba: Mothers?
Student: There are baandheli mothers (mothers in bondage)...
Baba: Yes. In the beginning of the Yagya, 300-400 virgins and mothers were in bondage; they were locked behind seven locks and they were not allowed to go to Baba at Karachi. They had unbreakable bondage. When the karmic bondage (karmabandhan) ended, then such an atmosphere was created that a fight broke out between India and Pakistan; bloodshed took place. All the people travelling in trains were killed. And every one was running for his life. Those who bound [the virgins and mothers in bondage] forgot that they have to keep them in bondage; that they have to be taken along. They left them (the virgins and mothers) and ran away. Now a similar thing will happen again. The bandheli mothers who have a lot of bondage; it will not at all be known about those who put them in bondage that where they went away.
Time: 01.04.36-01.06.17
Student: Baba, one is the true Gita and the other is the false Gita. Between them, which one is the true Gita?
Baba: Is ShivBaba true or is the soul of Krishna true? (Everyone said: ShivBaba) Shiva does not pass through the cycle of birth and death. And the soul of Krishna passes through the cycle of birth and death. So, does the one who passes through the cycle of birth and death forget the topics of the past births or does he remember it? He forgets the topics of the past births. So, how will he narrate the truth? And as regards ShivBaba, He does not pass through the cycle of birth and death at all. That is why He does not forget anything. Whatever He narrates will be true. When He comes, He narrates the true knowledge and establishes the land of truth. The souls of Ram and Krishna remain only in this world for the 84 births. Yet does the world go on becoming a hell, does it go on experiencing downfall or does it remain a land of truth? (Student: It goes on experiencing downfall.) It goes on becoming a hell. Falsity makes hell. Ram as well as Krishna become false.
Time: 01.06.24-01.07.13
Student: Baba, can a 23-24 year old mother serve in Kampil?
Baba: If other aged mothers are present there, then she can serve. And if other elderly mothers are not present there, then the young mothers should not venture out for service not just in Kampil but anywhere in the world. The world is very dirty. You should take care of yourself.
Time: 01.07.18-01.07.38
Student: Baba, for example, it has been said in a Vani that Baba Himself is our world.
Baba: Yes, so what? (Student: What does it mean?) Will the souls that will have remained with Baba continuously for 84 births see only Baba as their world or will they see any other soul as their world? (Student: They will see only Baba.) It has been said only for them.
Time: 01.07.41-01.08.06
Student: Can someone who has not done the bhatti attend the sangathan (gathering) class or not?
Baba: She can attend all the sangathan classes [but] she should not come to Baba’s class (when Baba Himself is present).
Acchaa, the time is up. (Concluded.)
भाग-7
समयः 01.02.50-01.04.27
जिज्ञासु ने कुछ पूछा।
बाबाः माताएं?
जिज्ञासुः बांधेली माताएं हैं ...
बाबाः हाँ, यज्ञ के आदि में जैसे 300-400 कन्याओं-माताओं को बंधन पड़ा हुआ था, सात-सात तालों के अन्दर रखी गईं और उनको बाबा के पास कराची में नहीं जाने दिया गया। अटूट बंधन रहा। जब कर्मबंधन खलास हुआ तो ऐसा माहौल बन गया कि हिन्दुस्तान-पाकिस्तान की लड़ाई हुई, खून-खराबा हुआ। ट्रेनें की ट्रेनें काट डाली गईं। और अपनी-अपनी भगदड़ पड़ गई। बंधन डालने वाले भूल गए कि इनको बंधन में रखना है, अपने साथ लेना है। छोड़ के भाग गए। ऐसे ही फिर अभी ऐसे ही होगा। जिन बांधेली माताओं को बहुत बंधन हैं, बंधन में डालने वालों का पता ही नहीं चलेगा कहाँ चले गए।
समयः 01.04.36-01.06.17
जिज्ञासुः बाबा, एक है सच्ची गीता और एक है झूठी गीता। उनमें से सच्ची गीता कौनसी है?
बाबाः शिवबाबा सच्चा है या कृष्ण की आत्मा सच्ची है? (सभी ने कहा – शिवबाबा।) शिव तो जन्म मरण के चक्कर में नहीं आता और कृष्ण की आत्मा तो जन्म-मरण के चक्र में आती है। तो जो जन्म-मरण के चक्र में आती है वो पूर्व जन्म की बातों को भूल जाती है या याद रखती है? पूर्व जन्म की बातें भूल जाती है। तो सच्ची बात कहाँ से बताएगा? और शिवबाबा वो तो जन्म-मरण के चक्र में आता ही नहीं। तो इसलिए कुछ भी भूलता ही नहीं। वो तो जो कुछ बताएगा वो सब सच्चा ही सच्चा बताएगा। वो आता है तो सच्चा ज्ञान सुनाकर सच्च खण्ड की स्थापना करता है। राम-कृष्ण की आत्माएं तो 84 जन्म इसी सृष्टि पर रहती हैं। फिर भी दुनिया नर्क बनती जाती है, नीचे गिरती जाती है या सचखंड बनती है? (जिज्ञासु – नीचे गिरती जाती है।) नर्क बनती जाती है। झूठ से होता है नरक। राम और कृष्ण दोनों झूठे बन जाते हैं।
समयः 01.06.24-01.07.13
जिज्ञासुः बाबा, 23-24 साल की माता सेवा कर सकती है क्या कम्पिल में?
बाबाः दूसरी बुजुर्ग माताएं वहाँ मौजूद हैं तो कर सकती है और दूसरी बुजुर्ग माताएं वहाँ मौजूद नहीं हैं तो कम्पिल में तो क्या, कहीं भी बाहर की दुनिया में निकल करके सर्विस नहीं करना चाहिए कम उमर की माताओं को। दुनिया बड़ी गंदी है। अपनी संभाल अपने आपे ही करनी है।
समयः 01.07.18-01.07.38
जिज्ञासुः बाबा, जैसे एक वाणी बोले कि बाबा की संसार है।
बाबाः हाँ, तो क्या हुआ? (जिज्ञासु – इसका अर्थ?) जो आत्माएं 84 जन्म लगातार बाबा के साथ रही होंगी उनको बाबा ही संसार दिखाई पड़ेगा कि कोई दूसरी आत्मा संसार दिखाई पड़ेगी? (जिज्ञासु – बाबा ही दिखाई पड़ेगा।) उन्हीं के लिए बोला है।
समयः 01.07.41-01.08.06
जिज्ञासुः जिसने भठ्ठी नहीं की है वो संगठन के क्लास में जा सकती है या नहीं जा सकती है?
बाबाः संगठन के सभी क्लास में जा सकती है। बाबा के क्लास में नहीं आना चाहिए।
अच्छा, टाईम हो गया।
Disc.CD No.625, dated 22.09.08 at Digner-II
Part-7
Time: 01.02.50-01.04.27
A student asked something.
Baba: Mothers?
Student: There are baandheli mothers (mothers in bondage)...
Baba: Yes. In the beginning of the Yagya, 300-400 virgins and mothers were in bondage; they were locked behind seven locks and they were not allowed to go to Baba at Karachi. They had unbreakable bondage. When the karmic bondage (karmabandhan) ended, then such an atmosphere was created that a fight broke out between India and Pakistan; bloodshed took place. All the people travelling in trains were killed. And every one was running for his life. Those who bound [the virgins and mothers in bondage] forgot that they have to keep them in bondage; that they have to be taken along. They left them (the virgins and mothers) and ran away. Now a similar thing will happen again. The bandheli mothers who have a lot of bondage; it will not at all be known about those who put them in bondage that where they went away.
Time: 01.04.36-01.06.17
Student: Baba, one is the true Gita and the other is the false Gita. Between them, which one is the true Gita?
Baba: Is ShivBaba true or is the soul of Krishna true? (Everyone said: ShivBaba) Shiva does not pass through the cycle of birth and death. And the soul of Krishna passes through the cycle of birth and death. So, does the one who passes through the cycle of birth and death forget the topics of the past births or does he remember it? He forgets the topics of the past births. So, how will he narrate the truth? And as regards ShivBaba, He does not pass through the cycle of birth and death at all. That is why He does not forget anything. Whatever He narrates will be true. When He comes, He narrates the true knowledge and establishes the land of truth. The souls of Ram and Krishna remain only in this world for the 84 births. Yet does the world go on becoming a hell, does it go on experiencing downfall or does it remain a land of truth? (Student: It goes on experiencing downfall.) It goes on becoming a hell. Falsity makes hell. Ram as well as Krishna become false.
Time: 01.06.24-01.07.13
Student: Baba, can a 23-24 year old mother serve in Kampil?
Baba: If other aged mothers are present there, then she can serve. And if other elderly mothers are not present there, then the young mothers should not venture out for service not just in Kampil but anywhere in the world. The world is very dirty. You should take care of yourself.
Time: 01.07.18-01.07.38
Student: Baba, for example, it has been said in a Vani that Baba Himself is our world.
Baba: Yes, so what? (Student: What does it mean?) Will the souls that will have remained with Baba continuously for 84 births see only Baba as their world or will they see any other soul as their world? (Student: They will see only Baba.) It has been said only for them.
Time: 01.07.41-01.08.06
Student: Can someone who has not done the bhatti attend the sangathan (gathering) class or not?
Baba: She can attend all the sangathan classes [but] she should not come to Baba’s class (when Baba Himself is present).
Acchaa, the time is up. (Concluded.)
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arjun
- PBK
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Re: Q&A: PBK Murli discussions
Disc.CD No.1320, dated 24.04.12 at Khagariya, Part-1
Extracts-Part-1
Time: 04.53-09.33
Student: When will we become officers of the first division?
Baba: You will become officers of the first division when you make first class spiritual effort (purushaarth). Purushaarth itself means something that is done for the soul. You have to check yourself that to what extent you make effort for the body in 24 hours. Baba says: Children you have to become conquerors of sleep (nidraajiit). So, do we sleep for the body or for the soul?
Student: For the body.
Baba: These six-eight hours were spent for the body. We are left with 16 hours now. So, even in case of 16 hours we should check, how much time we spend for the body What? For the sake (arth) of the purush. Purush means the soul; arth means ‘for the sake of’; and [we should check] how much time we spend for the body. So, what will we have to do if we have to come in the first class? We have to make the best purushaarth. Well, those who make [purushaarth] will gain [reward]. And ever since we have entered the path of knowledge, ever since we have received the introduction of the soul and the Supreme Soul, we should check our record from that time to this time that how much and what kind of purushaarth we have made. It is because long-term purushaarth will prove useful in the end. It is not that the purushaarth of a little time will prove useful. This proves that the eight first class purushaarthi souls who do not even suffer the punishments of Dharmaraj (the Chief Justice) in what task do they invest their entire power through the body, mind, wealth, time, contacts, and relatives from the moment they come in [the path of] knowledge till the end? They invest in the task of God; it is then that they pass with honour. So, as is the purushaarth that we make so will be the marks with which we will pass.
Time: 09.36-10.48
Student: What will we have to do in order to become introvert (antarmukhi) and to learn the language of silence (maun ki bhaashaa)?
Baba: In order to learn the language of silence you will have to first silence the thoughts. It is not that you stop speaking through the external mouth like the sanyasis of the path of Bhakti (devotion) and a storm of thoughts keeps circling within [you]. The thoughts should also be jammed. Neither good thoughts nor bad thoughts should emerge. [There should be] a complete soul consious stage: I a soul, am a point of light and my Father is a Point of light. [There should be] a complete incorporeal stage. Then, you will definitely become vice less, egoless.
Time: 11.04-14.44
Student: When will we [attain] a stage like the Supreme Soul, the resident of the Supreme Abode?
Baba: His name itself is Supreme Soul, the one who plays the supreme part among all the souls, i.e. actors. Souls are actors, aren’t they? This is a stage like world. There are different kinds of actors on this stage. Among those actors who act, [he is] the one who plays a supreme part. And what kind of a part? It should be a part in accordance with Shrimat, it should not be against the Shrimat; he should not play a part on the directions of the human beings, he should not play a part on the directions of the mind and that can be possible only when the assimilation of the knowledge of God is filled in him to the core. If you haven’t studied the knowledge of God at all, then how can you become supreme actor? When God comes, then does He teach any knowledge or not? He teaches. Those who give importance to that knowledge, i.e. those who study the knowledge regularly, punctually and along with studying the knowledge those who also assimilate it in their life; there are four subjects of the study: Knowledge, Yoga, dhaaranaa and service. The first subject is knowledge. The more someone is knowledgeable, the sharper he will be in remembrance. And the one who is sharp in remembrance will be sharp in the Divine service (ishwariya) as well. Those who do service keep assimilating virtues (dhaarnaa) automatically. So, on what is everything based? Everything is based on knowledge. Knowledge itself means to know, to recognize: To what extent did you know the part of your soul and to what extent did you recognize the Supreme Father, Supreme Soul?
Time: 14.47-16.42
Student: The Islaami (people of Islam) will die first. Will they die through shariirbhaan (body consciousness) or through dehbhaan (body consciousness)?
Baba: Deh and shariir are one and the same. Deh itself is called body (shariir). To die from body consciousness means that you should not remember anything except the soul. For example, there are the deities in the Golden and Silver Ages, they [are in] the awareness of the soul, they remember the point of light star for 24 hours; even when they see others, they see the point of light soul. They are not pulled towards the body at all. So, when you develop such a stage of remembrance then it will be said that you have died from the body. Those who remain in soul conscious stage do not feel hungry, thirsty or sleepy. Do the deities sleep? Do they feel tired? Why don’t they feel tired? It is because does the body feel tired or does the soul feel tired? It is body that feels tired. So, you will feel tired when you are body conscious. This is why Baba says: If you walk from Abu Road to Mount Abu in soul consciousness, you will not feel tired at all.
Time: 17.00-19.29
Student: Baba, how many children of the beneficial (kalyaankaari) ShivBaba are beneficial?
Baba: When ShivBaba is beneficial then the children will also be beneficial; but will they be number wise beneficial or will they be equally beneficial?
Student: Number wise.
Baba: And only those [souls] will be number wise beneficial who do not care for their own benefit. They should have such eternal faith on themselves that [they think:] I have gained whatever I wanted to gain. Now I don’t have any worry for myself. For example, there is Shiva; when Shiva comes in this world does He expect anything from the children? For example, the fathers in the lokik world have this expectation towards the children: when I grow old, then these children will take care of me. So, they have more expectation towards the eldest child. Why? It is because the lokik Father knows: the eldest child will grow faster; he will take care of the business; I will grow old. So, the lokik Father is body conscious; that is why he has this worry. This one is a Paarlokik Father . He does not have a body of His own at all. Similarly, children should also become so busy in the service of God that [they should attain this stage:] the body is not my body, the Father is not my Father, the child is not my child, [and] the wife is not my wife. All the relationships of the body [should] end. One Father and no one else.
Time: 19.32-21.08
Student: Even the eight deities (asht dev) have doubts regarding the Father in future; for how long [are they in this state]?
Baba: It is famous that those who have a faithful intellect [towards God] gain victory (nishcaybuddhi vijayate). Well, since the shooting of the 5000 years takes place; during the shooting of the 5000 years does the soul always gain victory or does it also suffer defeat? So, unless we have renounced the body consciousness, we suffer defeat. Because of body consciousness we have faith and doubt every moment. When we have faith on the Father, we gain victory; when we have doubts, then we keep suffering defeat. When we become the ones with a faithful intellect forever, then we will gain victory and only victory and we will become the beads of the Vijaymaalaa (rosary of victory). ... (to be continued.)
Extracts-Part-1
Time: 04.53-09.33
Student: When will we become officers of the first division?
Baba: You will become officers of the first division when you make first class spiritual effort (purushaarth). Purushaarth itself means something that is done for the soul. You have to check yourself that to what extent you make effort for the body in 24 hours. Baba says: Children you have to become conquerors of sleep (nidraajiit). So, do we sleep for the body or for the soul?
Student: For the body.
Baba: These six-eight hours were spent for the body. We are left with 16 hours now. So, even in case of 16 hours we should check, how much time we spend for the body What? For the sake (arth) of the purush. Purush means the soul; arth means ‘for the sake of’; and [we should check] how much time we spend for the body. So, what will we have to do if we have to come in the first class? We have to make the best purushaarth. Well, those who make [purushaarth] will gain [reward]. And ever since we have entered the path of knowledge, ever since we have received the introduction of the soul and the Supreme Soul, we should check our record from that time to this time that how much and what kind of purushaarth we have made. It is because long-term purushaarth will prove useful in the end. It is not that the purushaarth of a little time will prove useful. This proves that the eight first class purushaarthi souls who do not even suffer the punishments of Dharmaraj (the Chief Justice) in what task do they invest their entire power through the body, mind, wealth, time, contacts, and relatives from the moment they come in [the path of] knowledge till the end? They invest in the task of God; it is then that they pass with honour. So, as is the purushaarth that we make so will be the marks with which we will pass.
Time: 09.36-10.48
Student: What will we have to do in order to become introvert (antarmukhi) and to learn the language of silence (maun ki bhaashaa)?
Baba: In order to learn the language of silence you will have to first silence the thoughts. It is not that you stop speaking through the external mouth like the sanyasis of the path of Bhakti (devotion) and a storm of thoughts keeps circling within [you]. The thoughts should also be jammed. Neither good thoughts nor bad thoughts should emerge. [There should be] a complete soul consious stage: I a soul, am a point of light and my Father is a Point of light. [There should be] a complete incorporeal stage. Then, you will definitely become vice less, egoless.
Time: 11.04-14.44
Student: When will we [attain] a stage like the Supreme Soul, the resident of the Supreme Abode?
Baba: His name itself is Supreme Soul, the one who plays the supreme part among all the souls, i.e. actors. Souls are actors, aren’t they? This is a stage like world. There are different kinds of actors on this stage. Among those actors who act, [he is] the one who plays a supreme part. And what kind of a part? It should be a part in accordance with Shrimat, it should not be against the Shrimat; he should not play a part on the directions of the human beings, he should not play a part on the directions of the mind and that can be possible only when the assimilation of the knowledge of God is filled in him to the core. If you haven’t studied the knowledge of God at all, then how can you become supreme actor? When God comes, then does He teach any knowledge or not? He teaches. Those who give importance to that knowledge, i.e. those who study the knowledge regularly, punctually and along with studying the knowledge those who also assimilate it in their life; there are four subjects of the study: Knowledge, Yoga, dhaaranaa and service. The first subject is knowledge. The more someone is knowledgeable, the sharper he will be in remembrance. And the one who is sharp in remembrance will be sharp in the Divine service (ishwariya) as well. Those who do service keep assimilating virtues (dhaarnaa) automatically. So, on what is everything based? Everything is based on knowledge. Knowledge itself means to know, to recognize: To what extent did you know the part of your soul and to what extent did you recognize the Supreme Father, Supreme Soul?
Time: 14.47-16.42
Student: The Islaami (people of Islam) will die first. Will they die through shariirbhaan (body consciousness) or through dehbhaan (body consciousness)?
Baba: Deh and shariir are one and the same. Deh itself is called body (shariir). To die from body consciousness means that you should not remember anything except the soul. For example, there are the deities in the Golden and Silver Ages, they [are in] the awareness of the soul, they remember the point of light star for 24 hours; even when they see others, they see the point of light soul. They are not pulled towards the body at all. So, when you develop such a stage of remembrance then it will be said that you have died from the body. Those who remain in soul conscious stage do not feel hungry, thirsty or sleepy. Do the deities sleep? Do they feel tired? Why don’t they feel tired? It is because does the body feel tired or does the soul feel tired? It is body that feels tired. So, you will feel tired when you are body conscious. This is why Baba says: If you walk from Abu Road to Mount Abu in soul consciousness, you will not feel tired at all.
Time: 17.00-19.29
Student: Baba, how many children of the beneficial (kalyaankaari) ShivBaba are beneficial?
Baba: When ShivBaba is beneficial then the children will also be beneficial; but will they be number wise beneficial or will they be equally beneficial?
Student: Number wise.
Baba: And only those [souls] will be number wise beneficial who do not care for their own benefit. They should have such eternal faith on themselves that [they think:] I have gained whatever I wanted to gain. Now I don’t have any worry for myself. For example, there is Shiva; when Shiva comes in this world does He expect anything from the children? For example, the fathers in the lokik world have this expectation towards the children: when I grow old, then these children will take care of me. So, they have more expectation towards the eldest child. Why? It is because the lokik Father knows: the eldest child will grow faster; he will take care of the business; I will grow old. So, the lokik Father is body conscious; that is why he has this worry. This one is a Paarlokik Father . He does not have a body of His own at all. Similarly, children should also become so busy in the service of God that [they should attain this stage:] the body is not my body, the Father is not my Father, the child is not my child, [and] the wife is not my wife. All the relationships of the body [should] end. One Father and no one else.
Time: 19.32-21.08
Student: Even the eight deities (asht dev) have doubts regarding the Father in future; for how long [are they in this state]?
Baba: It is famous that those who have a faithful intellect [towards God] gain victory (nishcaybuddhi vijayate). Well, since the shooting of the 5000 years takes place; during the shooting of the 5000 years does the soul always gain victory or does it also suffer defeat? So, unless we have renounced the body consciousness, we suffer defeat. Because of body consciousness we have faith and doubt every moment. When we have faith on the Father, we gain victory; when we have doubts, then we keep suffering defeat. When we become the ones with a faithful intellect forever, then we will gain victory and only victory and we will become the beads of the Vijaymaalaa (rosary of victory). ... (to be continued.)
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arjun
- PBK
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- Joined: 01 May 2006
- Affinity to the BKWSU: PBK
- Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: To exchange views with past and present members of BKWSU and its splinter groups.
- Location: India
Re: Q&A: PBK Murli discussions
Disc.CD No.1320, dated 24.04.12 at Khagariya, Part-1
Extracts-Part-2
Time: 21.25-24.13
Student: What is the secret behind the trance messages that are received and visions that are seen in the Confluence Age?
Baba: Trance message? (Student: Yes.) Trance messages have been continuing in the path of Bhakti as well. For example, when the path of knowledge started here in the beginning of the Confluence Age, then was there the foundation of the path of Bhakti or of the path of knowledge? There was the foundation of the path of Bhakti. So, in the 63 births in the world, i.e. in the Copper and Iron Ages, the visions with closed eyes that [people] saw; Meera, Soordas, Tulsidas, Raidaas saw [visions]. Similarly, [people] continued to see visions here in the path of knowledge as well. There is no benefit of those visions. You just get joy for a little time, temporary [joy]. You get benefit only when those visions of the path of Bhakti change into the visions of the intellect of the path of knowledge. You should start experiencing through the intellect that how God, the Father comes and creates heaven, [how] He is creating heaven and what our part in the creation, establishment, sustenance of that heaven or in the destruction of the old world is. You should also start understanding this through the intellect; then it will be said to be visions of the path of knowledge. That will give [you] permanent joy. Otherwise, the visions of the path of Bhakti that [people] continued to have; for example, Meera had visions, she used to go to Vaikunth (heaven) for some time, but she did not go to heaven [in reality]. Where did she continue to be born? She continued to be born in this very world of hell.
Time: 25.40-26.47
Student: ShivBaba says ‘sweet children’ in the Murlis, why doesn’t He say this in the Avyakt Vanis?
Baba: It is because is Shiva the sweetest or is He bitter as well?
Student: He is sweet.
Baba: Since Shiva is sweet He sees everyone as sweet. Does Shiva create a new world or an old world? The one who is a creator of the new, sweet world sees the original form of the children as well. He does not see the present form of the children. Which form does He see? He sees the new form of the new world. This is why the words ‘sweet children’ comes from the mouth of ShivBaba. ShivBaba does not at all see the body conscious bulls. Whom does He see? He sees only the children who make sweet purushaarth.
Time: 26.48-30.07
Student: Which Brahmins speak lies in the third world of ShivBaba? It cannot be the Suryavanshi children at all.
Baba: Can’t it be the Suryavanshis at all?
Student: Which Brahmins speak lies in the third world of ShivBaba?
Baba: What is meant by the third world?
Student: Brahmins...it is about the advanced stage.
Baba: The children in the advance [party].
Student: Yes.
Baba: Yes.
Student: It cannot be the Suryavanshis at all. They cannot speak lies at all. Which are the Brahmins that speak lies in this world?
Baba: Is everyone false now or is there anyone true in this world of falsehood? Now everyone is false. Everyone is sinful in the world that has become sinful. And everyone is pure in the pure world. Yes, only the one Father purifies the sinful world. And He also [purifies it] through one [person]. He does not [purify it] through many. The one through whom He [[purifies it], that Father himself is called yagyapitaa (Father of the Yagya).
Yagya itself means to sacrifice (swaahaa). [You should] sacrifice body, mind, wealth, the entire time in the service of God, [you should] sacrifice the power of those who come in contact too, all the powers of the relatives or the souls that come in relation [should be] sacrificed in the service of God, then it is called the Yagya of the yagyapitaa. It is named Rudrayagya, the Yagya of the one who takes on the Raudra (fierce) form. The Sun gives heat to the world by burning itself. The Moon is itself cool; so what does it give to the others as well? It gives coolness (shiitaltaa). Will the entire world survive on the Moon’s coolnes or does the entire world survive on basis of God’s heat? Worms and insects receive sustenance in the light of the Moon and the worms and insects perish in the sun light. They die a miserable death.
Time: 30.11-35.02
Student: Will all the nine lakh (900 thousand) souls be present in Mount Abu in the last destruction of 2036 or will they be in a separate [place]?
Baba: Nine lakh souls include four and a half lakh (450 thousand) [souls] that are born and four and a half lakh [souls] who give birth [to them]. So, will those who are born be Subtle Region dwellers or will they be in Mount Abu?
Student: Subtle Region.
Baba: It is not about them at all. Well, four and a half lakh [souls] remain. So, do the four and a half lakh [souls] make equal purushaarth in the last period of destruction or are they number wise purushaarthis? They are seed form souls of the world. The part of the Suryavanshi seeds is different and the part of the Chandravanshi seeds is different. Did the Suryavanshis help more in the task of establishment or did the Chandravanshis help more?
Student: The Suryavanshis...
Baba: Did the Suryavanshis help more or did they run away in the beginning itself? Did the Suryavanshis help more or did they go away leaving [the Yagya] in between itself? They left and went away, didn’t they? So, who established the Brahmin religion? The Chandravanshis established it. And those who establish do the sustenance as well. The one who builds a house also takes care of it. Do those who have learnt to break a house or those who break a house have more value for a house or do those who build it have more value for it? Those who build it have more attachment [for it]. This is why the very Brahma, who establishes, becomes Vishnu who does the sustenance. It means Brahma becomes Vishnu. So, from where will the beads of Vijaymala come? Those who will gain victory over the vices first of all… and only those who gain victory over the vices will come in the gathering of heaven. They will not sit and do tapasyaa (intense meditation) in Mount Abu. Which country will they go to?
Student said something.
Baba: No. The banks of Yamuna are famous. Delhi does the establishment. Tapasyaa will be performed in Mount Abu. Will those who perform tapasyaa be sinful souls or noble souls?
Student: Sinful souls.
Baba: They will be sinful souls. The tapasyaa will continue till the end.
Student: Until the Suryavanshis are added to the Vijaymala, can’t they be uplifted?
Baba: Yes. Upliftment cannot be possible without the mother guru. Only the mothers and virgins go ahead in the subject of purity. It is they who enable us to gain victory in [the subject of] purity. So, the group of virgins and mothers emerges only from the Moon dynasty. ... (to be continued.)
Extracts-Part-2
Time: 21.25-24.13
Student: What is the secret behind the trance messages that are received and visions that are seen in the Confluence Age?
Baba: Trance message? (Student: Yes.) Trance messages have been continuing in the path of Bhakti as well. For example, when the path of knowledge started here in the beginning of the Confluence Age, then was there the foundation of the path of Bhakti or of the path of knowledge? There was the foundation of the path of Bhakti. So, in the 63 births in the world, i.e. in the Copper and Iron Ages, the visions with closed eyes that [people] saw; Meera, Soordas, Tulsidas, Raidaas saw [visions]. Similarly, [people] continued to see visions here in the path of knowledge as well. There is no benefit of those visions. You just get joy for a little time, temporary [joy]. You get benefit only when those visions of the path of Bhakti change into the visions of the intellect of the path of knowledge. You should start experiencing through the intellect that how God, the Father comes and creates heaven, [how] He is creating heaven and what our part in the creation, establishment, sustenance of that heaven or in the destruction of the old world is. You should also start understanding this through the intellect; then it will be said to be visions of the path of knowledge. That will give [you] permanent joy. Otherwise, the visions of the path of Bhakti that [people] continued to have; for example, Meera had visions, she used to go to Vaikunth (heaven) for some time, but she did not go to heaven [in reality]. Where did she continue to be born? She continued to be born in this very world of hell.
Time: 25.40-26.47
Student: ShivBaba says ‘sweet children’ in the Murlis, why doesn’t He say this in the Avyakt Vanis?
Baba: It is because is Shiva the sweetest or is He bitter as well?
Student: He is sweet.
Baba: Since Shiva is sweet He sees everyone as sweet. Does Shiva create a new world or an old world? The one who is a creator of the new, sweet world sees the original form of the children as well. He does not see the present form of the children. Which form does He see? He sees the new form of the new world. This is why the words ‘sweet children’ comes from the mouth of ShivBaba. ShivBaba does not at all see the body conscious bulls. Whom does He see? He sees only the children who make sweet purushaarth.
Time: 26.48-30.07
Student: Which Brahmins speak lies in the third world of ShivBaba? It cannot be the Suryavanshi children at all.
Baba: Can’t it be the Suryavanshis at all?
Student: Which Brahmins speak lies in the third world of ShivBaba?
Baba: What is meant by the third world?
Student: Brahmins...it is about the advanced stage.
Baba: The children in the advance [party].
Student: Yes.
Baba: Yes.
Student: It cannot be the Suryavanshis at all. They cannot speak lies at all. Which are the Brahmins that speak lies in this world?
Baba: Is everyone false now or is there anyone true in this world of falsehood? Now everyone is false. Everyone is sinful in the world that has become sinful. And everyone is pure in the pure world. Yes, only the one Father purifies the sinful world. And He also [purifies it] through one [person]. He does not [purify it] through many. The one through whom He [[purifies it], that Father himself is called yagyapitaa (Father of the Yagya).
Yagya itself means to sacrifice (swaahaa). [You should] sacrifice body, mind, wealth, the entire time in the service of God, [you should] sacrifice the power of those who come in contact too, all the powers of the relatives or the souls that come in relation [should be] sacrificed in the service of God, then it is called the Yagya of the yagyapitaa. It is named Rudrayagya, the Yagya of the one who takes on the Raudra (fierce) form. The Sun gives heat to the world by burning itself. The Moon is itself cool; so what does it give to the others as well? It gives coolness (shiitaltaa). Will the entire world survive on the Moon’s coolnes or does the entire world survive on basis of God’s heat? Worms and insects receive sustenance in the light of the Moon and the worms and insects perish in the sun light. They die a miserable death.
Time: 30.11-35.02
Student: Will all the nine lakh (900 thousand) souls be present in Mount Abu in the last destruction of 2036 or will they be in a separate [place]?
Baba: Nine lakh souls include four and a half lakh (450 thousand) [souls] that are born and four and a half lakh [souls] who give birth [to them]. So, will those who are born be Subtle Region dwellers or will they be in Mount Abu?
Student: Subtle Region.
Baba: It is not about them at all. Well, four and a half lakh [souls] remain. So, do the four and a half lakh [souls] make equal purushaarth in the last period of destruction or are they number wise purushaarthis? They are seed form souls of the world. The part of the Suryavanshi seeds is different and the part of the Chandravanshi seeds is different. Did the Suryavanshis help more in the task of establishment or did the Chandravanshis help more?
Student: The Suryavanshis...
Baba: Did the Suryavanshis help more or did they run away in the beginning itself? Did the Suryavanshis help more or did they go away leaving [the Yagya] in between itself? They left and went away, didn’t they? So, who established the Brahmin religion? The Chandravanshis established it. And those who establish do the sustenance as well. The one who builds a house also takes care of it. Do those who have learnt to break a house or those who break a house have more value for a house or do those who build it have more value for it? Those who build it have more attachment [for it]. This is why the very Brahma, who establishes, becomes Vishnu who does the sustenance. It means Brahma becomes Vishnu. So, from where will the beads of Vijaymala come? Those who will gain victory over the vices first of all… and only those who gain victory over the vices will come in the gathering of heaven. They will not sit and do tapasyaa (intense meditation) in Mount Abu. Which country will they go to?
Student said something.
Baba: No. The banks of Yamuna are famous. Delhi does the establishment. Tapasyaa will be performed in Mount Abu. Will those who perform tapasyaa be sinful souls or noble souls?
Student: Sinful souls.
Baba: They will be sinful souls. The tapasyaa will continue till the end.
Student: Until the Suryavanshis are added to the Vijaymala, can’t they be uplifted?
Baba: Yes. Upliftment cannot be possible without the mother guru. Only the mothers and virgins go ahead in the subject of purity. It is they who enable us to gain victory in [the subject of] purity. So, the group of virgins and mothers emerges only from the Moon dynasty. ... (to be continued.)
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arjun
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Re: Q&A: PBK Murli discussions
Disc.CD No.1320, dated 24.04.12 at Khagariya, Part-1
Extracts-Part-3
Time: 36.06-39.38
Student: The Father says I serve you children.
Baba: He does not serve those children, He does not serve these children, He serves you children. So, what is meant by you, these ones and those ones? What is meant by [the statement] ‘He does not serve them’? ‘Those’ (un) means those who belong to the other religions or convert to other religions; He does not serve those children. They are the distant children; this is why they were referred to as ‘those’. ‘These’ children are not served either. Why? What is meant by these (in) and what is meant by this one (is)? What is meant by in or is? This one did not know means Brahma and all the followers of Brahma are not served either. Who are served? What is meant by you children? Those who sit face to face (sanmukh) with the Father. Sanmukh does not mean that you sit right in front [of Baba ]. Does someone sit face to face through the mind and intellect or through the body?
Student: Through the mind and intellect.
Baba: Yes, those who are face to face (sanmukh) through the mind and intellect, i.e. through the heart; those who have not turned their face opposite (vimukh) [from the Father] through their heart. Otherwise, what happens? [It is just like] mukh me raam bagal me chhuri. This is not the case with you children. ‘You children’ itself means that you always remain face to face through the body, mind, wealth, time, contacts [and] relatives. You should not become opponents (virodhi) even in thoughts. Even if there are thoughts against the thoughts of the Father, then are you sanmukh (face to face) or vimukh (opposite)? For example, it is said that the world was created through the thoughts of Brahma. So, is the world created only through the thoughts of Brahma or are the Brahmins also included in that [process of creation]? Brahmins also create thoughts. If they create thoughts in accordance with the Shrimat then they help in creating heaven. If they create thoughts against Shrimat, if they create thoughts against the Father’s thoughts, then they are the Father’s opponents. If not today they will be seen tomorrow in the camp of the Ravana community. They will have a doubting intellect and will be destroyed.
Time: 39.38-42.50
Student: Baba, I ask so many questions; if I bring a diary and a pen I ask. Otherwise when I sit in front of you I attain the Avyakt stage and forget everything.
Baba: The Father is a dweller of the Supreme Abode; the Father who is a dweller of the Supreme Abode lives in the Supreme Abode for 5000 years. If you come in the company of such a Father, will you be coloured by the Father’s colour or not? You will. And does the permanent Chariot in which that Father, the dweller of the Supreme Abode enters in a permanent way attain a stage equal to the Father first or will anyone else attain that stage? It is he alone who attains a stage equal to the Father first. So, the Indians take the names of both together. The name of no other human soul, deity soul or demonic soul is suffixed to Shiva’s name. To whom is it suffixed? Shiva’s name is prefixed to the name of Shankar because the Father comes and makes that hero actor equal to Himself first of all. So, the more the souls come in contact, connection and relationship with the one whom He makes equal to Himself will definitely be coloured by His company to that extent. For example, people used to say for Nehruji that a person may be however much big opponent of Nehruji, but when Nehruji came in front of him and delivered lectures, he (the opponent) became his supporter. So, this was the influence of what? It was the effect of the vibrations of the soul. This is why many children say: We will ask Baba a lot of questions but when we take the phone near our ears we forget everything. So, will all the children forget [everything]? No. It is about the heart. Those whose heart is close [to that of the Father] will forget everything. Those who are not close through their heart will not forget [everything].
Time: 44.24-50.09
Student: Baba, the good children are making their preparations. Sudama’s example is also famous that he brought a handful of rice.
Baba: Yes. The good children may be poor, they may not possess much; they may not be millionaires or billionaires. They are poor; so even if they give a little to the Yagya, they get palaces. This is applicable in the limited as well as the unlimited. In the limited handful of rice is famous and in the unlimited there are two kinds of rice grains: One in the right fist and the other in the left fist. The right fist contains the beads of the Vijaymala and the left fist contains the beads of the Rudramala. Both kinds of beads have become devoid of the husk of body consciousness. He (Sudama) makes and presents the group of such souls, the gathering of such souls, the rosary of such souls to the Father. So, does he have to do service or does it happen without doing service? He has to do service. In order to take out every royal soul, a hundred souls of the subjects category have to be served. If you give message to a hundred souls, then one heir (vaarisdaar) emerges. That heir may be from the Vijaymala or it may be a king of the Rudramala. So, the two handful of rice that are famous... definitely a soul becomes instrument to prepare such a gathering.
Which time is famous in the scriptures? The Confluence Age is famous. The one who gives that handful of rice has been named Su dama. Daam means wealth and property. Su means beautiful. The one who does not have perishable wealth and property of today’s world. Which wealth and property does he have? Imperishable wealth and property that has been given by God. He has given value to the property given by God; he has thought and churned over it. He has ground it.
It is famous ‘apni ghot to nashaa carhe’, and ‘Tulsidas candan ghise tilak det raghuvir ’. It is about which place? Arey is there any place where Raghuvir applies the tilak? ‘Chitrakoot ke ghaat pe bhayi santan ki bhiir ’. They thought of Chitrakoot to be some physical mountain. Kuut means mountain. Actually, it is not about any physical mountain. When it is said about Mount Kailash, is it about the physical mountain or about a high stage? It is about a high stage. This is also about the high stage of thinking and churning. That high stage has been named kuut, i.e. mountain. What kind of a mountain? Chitrakoot – Citra means corporeal. It is such a mountain. By reaching that high stage, by churning the knowledge, God feels happy [thinking:] My student gave so much importance to My words; he gave so much time [for it] that by thinking and churning he converted that milk [of knowledge] into nectar. By drinking that nectar the deities also become imperishable. This is why the name Amarnath is given. So, all the praises and worship pertain to which time? They pertain to the Confluence Age. ... (to be continued.)
Extracts-Part-3
Time: 36.06-39.38
Student: The Father says I serve you children.
Baba: He does not serve those children, He does not serve these children, He serves you children. So, what is meant by you, these ones and those ones? What is meant by [the statement] ‘He does not serve them’? ‘Those’ (un) means those who belong to the other religions or convert to other religions; He does not serve those children. They are the distant children; this is why they were referred to as ‘those’. ‘These’ children are not served either. Why? What is meant by these (in) and what is meant by this one (is)? What is meant by in or is? This one did not know means Brahma and all the followers of Brahma are not served either. Who are served? What is meant by you children? Those who sit face to face (sanmukh) with the Father. Sanmukh does not mean that you sit right in front [of Baba ]. Does someone sit face to face through the mind and intellect or through the body?
Student: Through the mind and intellect.
Baba: Yes, those who are face to face (sanmukh) through the mind and intellect, i.e. through the heart; those who have not turned their face opposite (vimukh) [from the Father] through their heart. Otherwise, what happens? [It is just like] mukh me raam bagal me chhuri. This is not the case with you children. ‘You children’ itself means that you always remain face to face through the body, mind, wealth, time, contacts [and] relatives. You should not become opponents (virodhi) even in thoughts. Even if there are thoughts against the thoughts of the Father, then are you sanmukh (face to face) or vimukh (opposite)? For example, it is said that the world was created through the thoughts of Brahma. So, is the world created only through the thoughts of Brahma or are the Brahmins also included in that [process of creation]? Brahmins also create thoughts. If they create thoughts in accordance with the Shrimat then they help in creating heaven. If they create thoughts against Shrimat, if they create thoughts against the Father’s thoughts, then they are the Father’s opponents. If not today they will be seen tomorrow in the camp of the Ravana community. They will have a doubting intellect and will be destroyed.
Time: 39.38-42.50
Student: Baba, I ask so many questions; if I bring a diary and a pen I ask. Otherwise when I sit in front of you I attain the Avyakt stage and forget everything.
Baba: The Father is a dweller of the Supreme Abode; the Father who is a dweller of the Supreme Abode lives in the Supreme Abode for 5000 years. If you come in the company of such a Father, will you be coloured by the Father’s colour or not? You will. And does the permanent Chariot in which that Father, the dweller of the Supreme Abode enters in a permanent way attain a stage equal to the Father first or will anyone else attain that stage? It is he alone who attains a stage equal to the Father first. So, the Indians take the names of both together. The name of no other human soul, deity soul or demonic soul is suffixed to Shiva’s name. To whom is it suffixed? Shiva’s name is prefixed to the name of Shankar because the Father comes and makes that hero actor equal to Himself first of all. So, the more the souls come in contact, connection and relationship with the one whom He makes equal to Himself will definitely be coloured by His company to that extent. For example, people used to say for Nehruji that a person may be however much big opponent of Nehruji, but when Nehruji came in front of him and delivered lectures, he (the opponent) became his supporter. So, this was the influence of what? It was the effect of the vibrations of the soul. This is why many children say: We will ask Baba a lot of questions but when we take the phone near our ears we forget everything. So, will all the children forget [everything]? No. It is about the heart. Those whose heart is close [to that of the Father] will forget everything. Those who are not close through their heart will not forget [everything].
Time: 44.24-50.09
Student: Baba, the good children are making their preparations. Sudama’s example is also famous that he brought a handful of rice.
Baba: Yes. The good children may be poor, they may not possess much; they may not be millionaires or billionaires. They are poor; so even if they give a little to the Yagya, they get palaces. This is applicable in the limited as well as the unlimited. In the limited handful of rice is famous and in the unlimited there are two kinds of rice grains: One in the right fist and the other in the left fist. The right fist contains the beads of the Vijaymala and the left fist contains the beads of the Rudramala. Both kinds of beads have become devoid of the husk of body consciousness. He (Sudama) makes and presents the group of such souls, the gathering of such souls, the rosary of such souls to the Father. So, does he have to do service or does it happen without doing service? He has to do service. In order to take out every royal soul, a hundred souls of the subjects category have to be served. If you give message to a hundred souls, then one heir (vaarisdaar) emerges. That heir may be from the Vijaymala or it may be a king of the Rudramala. So, the two handful of rice that are famous... definitely a soul becomes instrument to prepare such a gathering.
Which time is famous in the scriptures? The Confluence Age is famous. The one who gives that handful of rice has been named Su dama. Daam means wealth and property. Su means beautiful. The one who does not have perishable wealth and property of today’s world. Which wealth and property does he have? Imperishable wealth and property that has been given by God. He has given value to the property given by God; he has thought and churned over it. He has ground it.
It is famous ‘apni ghot to nashaa carhe’, and ‘Tulsidas candan ghise tilak det raghuvir ’. It is about which place? Arey is there any place where Raghuvir applies the tilak? ‘Chitrakoot ke ghaat pe bhayi santan ki bhiir ’. They thought of Chitrakoot to be some physical mountain. Kuut means mountain. Actually, it is not about any physical mountain. When it is said about Mount Kailash, is it about the physical mountain or about a high stage? It is about a high stage. This is also about the high stage of thinking and churning. That high stage has been named kuut, i.e. mountain. What kind of a mountain? Chitrakoot – Citra means corporeal. It is such a mountain. By reaching that high stage, by churning the knowledge, God feels happy [thinking:] My student gave so much importance to My words; he gave so much time [for it] that by thinking and churning he converted that milk [of knowledge] into nectar. By drinking that nectar the deities also become imperishable. This is why the name Amarnath is given. So, all the praises and worship pertain to which time? They pertain to the Confluence Age. ... (to be continued.)
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arjun
- PBK
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Re: Q&A: PBK Murli discussions
Disc.CD No.1320, dated 24.04.12 at Khagariya, Part-1
Extracts-Part-4
Time: 50.12-56.40
Student: Which year will come after 2036? Is it 37 or 38?
Baba: (Baba is laughing.) Baba has said that Era 1.1.1 will start. So, will it be an Era of the new world or the old world?
Student: Of the new world.
Baba: Well, will the Era of the new world start in the Confluence Age or in the Golden Age?
Students said something.
Baba: Some say that it will begin in the Golden Age; some say it will begin in the Confluence Age. Achhaa, what is the meaning of Sangamyug (Confluence Age)?
A second student: Having a complete meeting with Baba.
Baba: No. Sangam itself means the confluence of two; the end of the Iron Age and the beginning of the Golden Age. So, the beginning of the Golden Age, the beginning of truth; will the foundation of that truth (sat) be laid in the Golden Age, will the foundation of truth be laid when Krishna or the souls like Krishna are born in the Golden Age or is it laid in the Confluence Age?
Student: Confluence Age.
Baba: And do the souls like Krishna lay the foundation of truth in the Confluence Age or do the souls that give birth to them lay the foundation? Who lays the foundation of truth in practice? Will the souls that lay the foundation of truth in practice in the Confluence Age, i.e. the souls that create the true gathering be souls like Krishna or the souls that give birth to them?
Student: Those who give birth to them.
Baba: They will be the souls that give birth to them. Do those seeds that give birth become ready in the Confluence Age or in the Golden Age?
Student: Confluence Age.
Baba: They become ready in the Confleunce Age. So, the Era 1.1.1, the new Era will start in the Confluence Age itself. It will not start in the Golden Age. There is no history of the Golden Age in the scriptures. All the topics of Vaikunth, heaven, jannat or paradise which have been mentioned in the scriptures, whether they have been mentioned in the scriptures of the Christians, whether they have been mentioned in the scriptures of the Muslims, whether they have been mentioned in the scriptures of the Hindus, whether they have been mentioned in the scriptures of the Jains, they are memorials of which time? They are memorials of the Confluence Age. So, the Era 1.1.1 is to start in the Confluence Age itself. It is not that the Era 1.1.1 will start after 2036 when the Golden Age begins or when Radha and Krishna are born in the form of children. No. Baba has said the Era 1.1.1 has been written in the picture of Lakshmi-Narayan.
A third student: Will it start for the Brahmins as well as the people of the outside world?
Baba: I give you children the inheritance of heaven in the midst of the world of hell.
The third student: There will be the Era 1.1.1 only for the Brahmins, won’t it?
Baba: There is the world of hell as well. Amidst that world of hell you will get the inheritance of heaven in the same way as the entire united Brahmin family used to live at one place in Pakistan. Rivers of blood were flowing between Hindustan and Pakistan and Baba’s children were living comfortably in Pakistan. They did not face any danger. So, that was a model, a memorial. But it was [just] a model; heaven was not established in practice. Its memorial is available to this day in Ajmer where there is a temple of Brahma. Now it is to happen in practice. There will be cries of distress in the entire world. Rivers of blood will be flowing and Baba’s children will live very happily. What was said in today’s Murli as well? Baba’s children will live very happily.
Time: 56.43-59.33
Student: Pakistan used to consider Nehru to be an enemy; so they burnt his effigy...
Baba: What is the meaning of Neh ruh? Neh means love and ruuh means soul; it was a loving soul. That was a limited Nehru, limited Gandhi and there is an unlimited Nehru in the world of Brahmins. Even that unlimited Nehru ruled over India for a very long time. No other minister could become the Prime Minister for such a long time. Similarly, the unlimited Nehru becomes a king for a very long period in this world by learning Rajyog. Who is that soul?
Student: Prajapita.
Baba: The one who remembers [the Father] more will learn more Raja Yoga and become a greater king, but those who do not remember, due to some reason, their karmic account of the previous births is like that; so, will they feel jealous, will they have envy, will they burn or not? They burn, so they burn the effigy. Do they burn or not? So, the Pakistanis used to burn Nehruji’s effigy and the Indians used to like him. Now, in the past few months social institutions burnt Baba’s photos continuously for a month on cross roads in Farrukhabad. So, does the shooting take place here or will it take place in the Golden Age? The shooting takes place here.
Time: 01.00.47-01.02.00
Student: From whose mouth did Dada Lekhraj get the knowledge? Is it through the senior mother or the junior mother?
Baba: Whose child will Dada Lekhraj Brahma become in the Golden Age? Will he be the child of the senior mother or the junior mother Lakshmi?
Student: The junior mother.
Baba: So, definitely the topic of knowledge that sat in his heart, did it sit through the mother who used to talk more or did it sit through the mother who assimilated the knowledge?
Student: Through the one who assimilated it.
Baba: He gained faith through the mother who assimilated it.
Student: Mother Gita.
Baba: Yes. This is the account. The one who becomes instrument to give birth in knowledge here will become instrument to give the physical birth there as well. (Concluded.)
Extracts-Part-4
Time: 50.12-56.40
Student: Which year will come after 2036? Is it 37 or 38?
Baba: (Baba is laughing.) Baba has said that Era 1.1.1 will start. So, will it be an Era of the new world or the old world?
Student: Of the new world.
Baba: Well, will the Era of the new world start in the Confluence Age or in the Golden Age?
Students said something.
Baba: Some say that it will begin in the Golden Age; some say it will begin in the Confluence Age. Achhaa, what is the meaning of Sangamyug (Confluence Age)?
A second student: Having a complete meeting with Baba.
Baba: No. Sangam itself means the confluence of two; the end of the Iron Age and the beginning of the Golden Age. So, the beginning of the Golden Age, the beginning of truth; will the foundation of that truth (sat) be laid in the Golden Age, will the foundation of truth be laid when Krishna or the souls like Krishna are born in the Golden Age or is it laid in the Confluence Age?
Student: Confluence Age.
Baba: And do the souls like Krishna lay the foundation of truth in the Confluence Age or do the souls that give birth to them lay the foundation? Who lays the foundation of truth in practice? Will the souls that lay the foundation of truth in practice in the Confluence Age, i.e. the souls that create the true gathering be souls like Krishna or the souls that give birth to them?
Student: Those who give birth to them.
Baba: They will be the souls that give birth to them. Do those seeds that give birth become ready in the Confluence Age or in the Golden Age?
Student: Confluence Age.
Baba: They become ready in the Confleunce Age. So, the Era 1.1.1, the new Era will start in the Confluence Age itself. It will not start in the Golden Age. There is no history of the Golden Age in the scriptures. All the topics of Vaikunth, heaven, jannat or paradise which have been mentioned in the scriptures, whether they have been mentioned in the scriptures of the Christians, whether they have been mentioned in the scriptures of the Muslims, whether they have been mentioned in the scriptures of the Hindus, whether they have been mentioned in the scriptures of the Jains, they are memorials of which time? They are memorials of the Confluence Age. So, the Era 1.1.1 is to start in the Confluence Age itself. It is not that the Era 1.1.1 will start after 2036 when the Golden Age begins or when Radha and Krishna are born in the form of children. No. Baba has said the Era 1.1.1 has been written in the picture of Lakshmi-Narayan.
A third student: Will it start for the Brahmins as well as the people of the outside world?
Baba: I give you children the inheritance of heaven in the midst of the world of hell.
The third student: There will be the Era 1.1.1 only for the Brahmins, won’t it?
Baba: There is the world of hell as well. Amidst that world of hell you will get the inheritance of heaven in the same way as the entire united Brahmin family used to live at one place in Pakistan. Rivers of blood were flowing between Hindustan and Pakistan and Baba’s children were living comfortably in Pakistan. They did not face any danger. So, that was a model, a memorial. But it was [just] a model; heaven was not established in practice. Its memorial is available to this day in Ajmer where there is a temple of Brahma. Now it is to happen in practice. There will be cries of distress in the entire world. Rivers of blood will be flowing and Baba’s children will live very happily. What was said in today’s Murli as well? Baba’s children will live very happily.
Time: 56.43-59.33
Student: Pakistan used to consider Nehru to be an enemy; so they burnt his effigy...
Baba: What is the meaning of Neh ruh? Neh means love and ruuh means soul; it was a loving soul. That was a limited Nehru, limited Gandhi and there is an unlimited Nehru in the world of Brahmins. Even that unlimited Nehru ruled over India for a very long time. No other minister could become the Prime Minister for such a long time. Similarly, the unlimited Nehru becomes a king for a very long period in this world by learning Rajyog. Who is that soul?
Student: Prajapita.
Baba: The one who remembers [the Father] more will learn more Raja Yoga and become a greater king, but those who do not remember, due to some reason, their karmic account of the previous births is like that; so, will they feel jealous, will they have envy, will they burn or not? They burn, so they burn the effigy. Do they burn or not? So, the Pakistanis used to burn Nehruji’s effigy and the Indians used to like him. Now, in the past few months social institutions burnt Baba’s photos continuously for a month on cross roads in Farrukhabad. So, does the shooting take place here or will it take place in the Golden Age? The shooting takes place here.
Time: 01.00.47-01.02.00
Student: From whose mouth did Dada Lekhraj get the knowledge? Is it through the senior mother or the junior mother?
Baba: Whose child will Dada Lekhraj Brahma become in the Golden Age? Will he be the child of the senior mother or the junior mother Lakshmi?
Student: The junior mother.
Baba: So, definitely the topic of knowledge that sat in his heart, did it sit through the mother who used to talk more or did it sit through the mother who assimilated the knowledge?
Student: Through the one who assimilated it.
Baba: He gained faith through the mother who assimilated it.
Student: Mother Gita.
Baba: Yes. This is the account. The one who becomes instrument to give birth in knowledge here will become instrument to give the physical birth there as well. (Concluded.)
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arjun
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Re: Q&A: PBK Murli discussions
वार्तालाप-624, निलंगा, दिनांक 07.09.08
भाग-1
समयः 00.08-01.18
जिज्ञासुः बाबा, चैतन्य नदी में…जानवर कौन हैं?
बाबाः वो जड़ नदियों में जानवर होते हैं। जड़त्व बुद्धि वाले जानवर होते हैं या मानवीय बुद्धि वाले जानवर होते हैं? (जिज्ञासु – जड़ बुद्धि।) और चैतन्य नदियों में कैसे जानवर होते हैं, जो ह्युमन नदियाँ हैं? ह्युमन नदियों से जानवरों का लगाव होता है कि नहीं होता है? लगाव हो जाता है। तो उनकी बुद्धि में कौनसे जानवर तैरते रहते हैं? ह्युमन जानवर की बात है या वो उन जानवरों की बात है? ह्युमन जानवरों की बात है। तो सारा वायब्रेशन ही खराब करते रहते हैं। ऐसी नदियों में स्नान करेंगे तो हमारा तुम्हारा वायब्रेशन कैसा बनेगा? स्वर्गीय वायब्रेशन बनावेंगी या और ही नरक बनावेंगी? और ही नरक बनेगा।
समयः 01.20-03.16
जिज्ञासुः बाबा, बाबा कहते हैं कर्मों में शंकर को फॉलो नहीं करना है। अगर करोगे तो उल्लू की तरह उल्टा लटक जाओगे। तो शंकर के ऐसे कौनसे कर्म हैं?
बाबाः शंकर से बिच्छू टिण्डन पैदा होते हैं कि नहीं? वो तो ताकतवर है। कोई बाप ताकतवर हो तो कैसे भी आसुरी बच्चे पैदा होंगे उनको कंट्रोल कर लेगा। और हरेक साधारण बाप के अगर बिच्छू-टिण्डन बच्चे पैदा होंगे तो परेशान हो जाएगा या आसानी हो जाएगी? परेशान हो जाएगा। बाप तो सर्व समर्थ है। भक्तिमार्ग में कहते हैं भानु प्रशानु सर्व रस खाई, तिन को मंद कहत कोउ नांहि। सूर्य है, अग्नि है, ये कोई मंद बुद्धि नहीं है। ये गंद को भी सोख जाते हैं। इनकी बात अलग है। भगवान का तो पार्ट ही निराला है। कैसी दुनिया में आता है? पतित दुनिया में। कैसे तन में आता है? पतित से पतित कामी काँटे में आता है। फिर? फिर उसको संग का रंग लगता है क्या? इब्राहिम, बुद्ध, क्राइस्ट को संग का रंग लगता है या नहीं लगता है? (जिज्ञासु – लगता है।) उनको तो लगता है। तो वो तो पार्ट ही निराला है। वो सदगुरु का पार्ट है। भक्तिमार्ग में भी कहते हैं कि गुरु की आज्ञा माननी चाहिए। गुरु जैसा करता है वैसा नहीं करना है।
समयः 03.22-05.30
जिज्ञासुः बाबा, राम और कृष्ण का जो नाम रखते हैं तो उनके जन्म देने वाले माँ-बाप नाम रखते हैं कि सतयुगी माँ-बाप नाम रखते हैं?
बाबाः संगमयुग में नाम रखे गए हैं या सतयुग-त्रेता, द्वापर, कलियुग में नाम रखे गए हैं? (जिज्ञासु – संगमयुग में।) नाम तो सारे संगमयुग पर रखे हुए हैं। और संगमयुग में माँ-बाप नाम रखते हैं या काम के आधार पर नाम रखे जाते हैं? (जिज्ञासु – काम के आधार पर।) बाप काम सिखाते हैं। ऐसे-ऐसे कर्म करो। तो जो बच्चे अच्छे से अच्छे कर्म करते हैं उनके अच्छे से अच्छे नाम डाले जाते हैं। राम नाम पड़ा। तो जरूर योगियों की आत्मा ने जिसमें रमण किया है, जिसकी याद में, उसका नाम राम पड़ गया। शास्त्रों में भी लिख दिया – रम्यते योगिनो यस्मिन इति राम। योगी लोग जिसमें रमण करते हैं वो ही राम है। वो योगियों का ईश्वर है। योगीश्वर शंकर को भी कहा जाता है। योगीश्वर कृष्ण को भी कहा जाता है। उन्होंने उस कृष्ण को समझ लिया जो बच्चा बुद्धि का पार्ट बजाता है। वास्तव में है संगमयुगी कुष्णो की बात। योगीश्वर सनत कुमार को भी कहा जाता है। ब्रह्मा का जो बड़ा पुत्र सबसे जास्ती ज्ञानी था उसको योगीश्वर कहा गया है। वास्तव में जिसके नाम से सनत, सनत कुमार नाम से सनातन धर्म की स्थापना हुई है, जो सनातन धर्म की स्थापना में सबसे जास्ती योग देने वाला है वो ही राम है, वो ही योगीश्वर शंकर है, वो ही सनतकुमार है।
समयः 05.34-07.11
जिज्ञासुः बाबा, जिसने अंत किया उसने सब कुछ किया। ऐसा कहा जाता है।
बाबाः हाँ, जी।
जिज्ञासुः उसका मीनिंग।
बाबाः इसका अंत करने वाला आदि में होगा या नहीं होगा? आदि सो अंत कहा जाता है। माने सृष्टि की आदि में जो थे वो श्रेष्ठ आत्माएं होंगी या निकृष्ट आत्माएं होंगी? श्रेष्ठ आत्माएं होंगी। जिन्होंने नई सृष्टि की आदि की, वो ही फिर अंत में भगवान जब आते हैं तो नीच ते नीच बन जाते हैं। वो आदि करने वाले ही अंत तक विजयी रहते हैं। क्योंकि भगवान उनका सहयोगी रहता है। बाकि अंत में सब परमधाम चले जावेंगे। वो अंत तक पार्ट बजावेंगे। इसलिए ऊँचे कहे जाते हैं, ऑलराउण्डा पार्ट बजाने वाले। जिन्होंने थोड़ा पार्ट बजाया सृष्टि चक्र में वो ज्यादा अनुभवी हुए या जिन्होंने पूरे सृष्टि चक्र का ऑलराउण्ड पार्ट बजाया वो ज्यादा अनुभवी हुए? ऑलराउण्ड पार्ट बजाने वाले, आदि सो अंत का पार्ट बजाने वाले ज्यादा अनुभवी हुए। सबके पूर्वज हो गए। सबके पूजनीय हो गए। पूर्वजों की पूजा की जाती है ना।
Disc.CD No.624, dated 07.09.08 at Nilanga
Part-1
Time: 00.08-01.18
Student: Baba, what are the …animals that exist in the living river?
Baba: There are animals in those non-living rivers. Are they the animals with an inert intellect or are they the animals with a human intellect? (Student: Inert intellect.) And what kind of animals exist in the living rivers, the human rivers? Do the animals have attachment to the human rivers or not? They have attachment. So, what kind of animals keep flowing in their intellect? Is it about the human animals or about those animals? It is about the human animals. So, they keep spoiling the entire vibration. If we bathe in such rivers, how will our vibrations become? Will they create heavenly vibrations or will they create even more hell? It will become hell even more.
Time: 01.20-03.16
Student: Baba, Baba says, you should not follow Shankar in actions. If you follow, you will hang upside down like a bat. So, what are such actions that Shankar performs?
Baba: Are scorpions and spiders (bichchu-tindan) born from Shankar or not? He is definitely powerful. If a Father is powerful, he will control any kind of demonic children that are born. And if scorpion and spider like children are born to every ordinary Father, will he be troubled or will he feel easy? He will be troubled. The Father is definitely capable in every way. In the path of Bhakti it is said – Bhaanu prashaanu sarva ras khaai, tin ko mand kahat kou naahi. The Sun, fire do not have a dull intellect. They absorb even dirt. Their topic is different. The very part of God is unique. In what kind of a world does He come? [He comes] in the sinful world. In what kind of a body does He come? He comes in the most sinful lustful thorn. Then? Then, is He coloured by the company? Are Abraham, Buddha, Christ coloured by the company or not? (Student: They are.) They are definitely coloured. So, that part [of the Supreme Soul] itself is unique. That is the part of the Sadguru. Even in the path of Bhakti it is said that you should obey the Guru’s orders. You should not do as the Guru does.
Time: 03.22-05.30
Student: Baba, are the names of Ram and Krishna given by the parents who give them birth or do the Golden Age parents name them?
Baba: Have the names been given in the Confluence Age or in the Golden Age, the Silver Age, the Copper Age and the Iron Age? (Student: In the Confluence Age.) All the names have been given in the Confluence Age. And do parents give names in the Confluence Age or are the names given as per the tasks that they perform? (Student: According to the task performed.) The Father teaches the tasks. [He says:] Perform such and such actions. So, the children who perform the best actions are given the best names. The name Ram was given. So, definitely the one in whom, in whose remembrance the souls of the yogis have taken delight, was named as Ram. It is also written in the scriptures: Ramyate yogino yasmin iti Raam. The one in whom the yogis take delight, himself is Ram. He is the God of the yogis. Shankar is also called Yogishwar (lord of the yogis). Krishna is also called Yogishwar. They considered that Krishna who plays the part of the one with a child like intellect [to be Yogishwar]. Actually it is about the Confluence Age Krishna. Sanat Kumar is also called Yogishwar. The eldest son of Brahma who was the most knowledgeable is called Yogishwar. Actually, the one according to whose name... Sanat Kumar, according to whose name the Ancient Religion (Sanatan Dharma) has been established, the one who helps the most in the establishment of the Ancient Religion himself is Ram, Yogishwar Shankar, Sanat Kumar.
Time: 05.34-07.11
Student: Baba, the one who brings about an end does everything. It is said so.
Baba: Yes.
Student: What is its meaning?
Baba: Will the one who brings the end be present in the beginning or not? It is said: As is the beginning, so shall be the end. It means that will the souls that were present in the beginning of the world be elevated souls or lowly souls? They will be elevated souls. Those who started the new world they themselves become the most degraded ones when God comes in the end. The ones who begin, themselves remain victorious till the end because God remains helpful to them. Everyone else will return to the Supreme Abode in the end. They will play the part till the end. This is why those who play an all-round part are called high. Are those who played fewer parts in the world cycle more experienced or are those who played an all-round part in the entire world cycle more experienced? Those who play an all-round part, those who play a part from the beginning till the end are more experienced. They are the ancestors of everyone. They are worship worthy for everyone. The ancestors are worshipped, aren’t they? ... (to be continued.)
भाग-1
समयः 00.08-01.18
जिज्ञासुः बाबा, चैतन्य नदी में…जानवर कौन हैं?
बाबाः वो जड़ नदियों में जानवर होते हैं। जड़त्व बुद्धि वाले जानवर होते हैं या मानवीय बुद्धि वाले जानवर होते हैं? (जिज्ञासु – जड़ बुद्धि।) और चैतन्य नदियों में कैसे जानवर होते हैं, जो ह्युमन नदियाँ हैं? ह्युमन नदियों से जानवरों का लगाव होता है कि नहीं होता है? लगाव हो जाता है। तो उनकी बुद्धि में कौनसे जानवर तैरते रहते हैं? ह्युमन जानवर की बात है या वो उन जानवरों की बात है? ह्युमन जानवरों की बात है। तो सारा वायब्रेशन ही खराब करते रहते हैं। ऐसी नदियों में स्नान करेंगे तो हमारा तुम्हारा वायब्रेशन कैसा बनेगा? स्वर्गीय वायब्रेशन बनावेंगी या और ही नरक बनावेंगी? और ही नरक बनेगा।
समयः 01.20-03.16
जिज्ञासुः बाबा, बाबा कहते हैं कर्मों में शंकर को फॉलो नहीं करना है। अगर करोगे तो उल्लू की तरह उल्टा लटक जाओगे। तो शंकर के ऐसे कौनसे कर्म हैं?
बाबाः शंकर से बिच्छू टिण्डन पैदा होते हैं कि नहीं? वो तो ताकतवर है। कोई बाप ताकतवर हो तो कैसे भी आसुरी बच्चे पैदा होंगे उनको कंट्रोल कर लेगा। और हरेक साधारण बाप के अगर बिच्छू-टिण्डन बच्चे पैदा होंगे तो परेशान हो जाएगा या आसानी हो जाएगी? परेशान हो जाएगा। बाप तो सर्व समर्थ है। भक्तिमार्ग में कहते हैं भानु प्रशानु सर्व रस खाई, तिन को मंद कहत कोउ नांहि। सूर्य है, अग्नि है, ये कोई मंद बुद्धि नहीं है। ये गंद को भी सोख जाते हैं। इनकी बात अलग है। भगवान का तो पार्ट ही निराला है। कैसी दुनिया में आता है? पतित दुनिया में। कैसे तन में आता है? पतित से पतित कामी काँटे में आता है। फिर? फिर उसको संग का रंग लगता है क्या? इब्राहिम, बुद्ध, क्राइस्ट को संग का रंग लगता है या नहीं लगता है? (जिज्ञासु – लगता है।) उनको तो लगता है। तो वो तो पार्ट ही निराला है। वो सदगुरु का पार्ट है। भक्तिमार्ग में भी कहते हैं कि गुरु की आज्ञा माननी चाहिए। गुरु जैसा करता है वैसा नहीं करना है।
समयः 03.22-05.30
जिज्ञासुः बाबा, राम और कृष्ण का जो नाम रखते हैं तो उनके जन्म देने वाले माँ-बाप नाम रखते हैं कि सतयुगी माँ-बाप नाम रखते हैं?
बाबाः संगमयुग में नाम रखे गए हैं या सतयुग-त्रेता, द्वापर, कलियुग में नाम रखे गए हैं? (जिज्ञासु – संगमयुग में।) नाम तो सारे संगमयुग पर रखे हुए हैं। और संगमयुग में माँ-बाप नाम रखते हैं या काम के आधार पर नाम रखे जाते हैं? (जिज्ञासु – काम के आधार पर।) बाप काम सिखाते हैं। ऐसे-ऐसे कर्म करो। तो जो बच्चे अच्छे से अच्छे कर्म करते हैं उनके अच्छे से अच्छे नाम डाले जाते हैं। राम नाम पड़ा। तो जरूर योगियों की आत्मा ने जिसमें रमण किया है, जिसकी याद में, उसका नाम राम पड़ गया। शास्त्रों में भी लिख दिया – रम्यते योगिनो यस्मिन इति राम। योगी लोग जिसमें रमण करते हैं वो ही राम है। वो योगियों का ईश्वर है। योगीश्वर शंकर को भी कहा जाता है। योगीश्वर कृष्ण को भी कहा जाता है। उन्होंने उस कृष्ण को समझ लिया जो बच्चा बुद्धि का पार्ट बजाता है। वास्तव में है संगमयुगी कुष्णो की बात। योगीश्वर सनत कुमार को भी कहा जाता है। ब्रह्मा का जो बड़ा पुत्र सबसे जास्ती ज्ञानी था उसको योगीश्वर कहा गया है। वास्तव में जिसके नाम से सनत, सनत कुमार नाम से सनातन धर्म की स्थापना हुई है, जो सनातन धर्म की स्थापना में सबसे जास्ती योग देने वाला है वो ही राम है, वो ही योगीश्वर शंकर है, वो ही सनतकुमार है।
समयः 05.34-07.11
जिज्ञासुः बाबा, जिसने अंत किया उसने सब कुछ किया। ऐसा कहा जाता है।
बाबाः हाँ, जी।
जिज्ञासुः उसका मीनिंग।
बाबाः इसका अंत करने वाला आदि में होगा या नहीं होगा? आदि सो अंत कहा जाता है। माने सृष्टि की आदि में जो थे वो श्रेष्ठ आत्माएं होंगी या निकृष्ट आत्माएं होंगी? श्रेष्ठ आत्माएं होंगी। जिन्होंने नई सृष्टि की आदि की, वो ही फिर अंत में भगवान जब आते हैं तो नीच ते नीच बन जाते हैं। वो आदि करने वाले ही अंत तक विजयी रहते हैं। क्योंकि भगवान उनका सहयोगी रहता है। बाकि अंत में सब परमधाम चले जावेंगे। वो अंत तक पार्ट बजावेंगे। इसलिए ऊँचे कहे जाते हैं, ऑलराउण्डा पार्ट बजाने वाले। जिन्होंने थोड़ा पार्ट बजाया सृष्टि चक्र में वो ज्यादा अनुभवी हुए या जिन्होंने पूरे सृष्टि चक्र का ऑलराउण्ड पार्ट बजाया वो ज्यादा अनुभवी हुए? ऑलराउण्ड पार्ट बजाने वाले, आदि सो अंत का पार्ट बजाने वाले ज्यादा अनुभवी हुए। सबके पूर्वज हो गए। सबके पूजनीय हो गए। पूर्वजों की पूजा की जाती है ना।
Disc.CD No.624, dated 07.09.08 at Nilanga
Part-1
Time: 00.08-01.18
Student: Baba, what are the …animals that exist in the living river?
Baba: There are animals in those non-living rivers. Are they the animals with an inert intellect or are they the animals with a human intellect? (Student: Inert intellect.) And what kind of animals exist in the living rivers, the human rivers? Do the animals have attachment to the human rivers or not? They have attachment. So, what kind of animals keep flowing in their intellect? Is it about the human animals or about those animals? It is about the human animals. So, they keep spoiling the entire vibration. If we bathe in such rivers, how will our vibrations become? Will they create heavenly vibrations or will they create even more hell? It will become hell even more.
Time: 01.20-03.16
Student: Baba, Baba says, you should not follow Shankar in actions. If you follow, you will hang upside down like a bat. So, what are such actions that Shankar performs?
Baba: Are scorpions and spiders (bichchu-tindan) born from Shankar or not? He is definitely powerful. If a Father is powerful, he will control any kind of demonic children that are born. And if scorpion and spider like children are born to every ordinary Father, will he be troubled or will he feel easy? He will be troubled. The Father is definitely capable in every way. In the path of Bhakti it is said – Bhaanu prashaanu sarva ras khaai, tin ko mand kahat kou naahi. The Sun, fire do not have a dull intellect. They absorb even dirt. Their topic is different. The very part of God is unique. In what kind of a world does He come? [He comes] in the sinful world. In what kind of a body does He come? He comes in the most sinful lustful thorn. Then? Then, is He coloured by the company? Are Abraham, Buddha, Christ coloured by the company or not? (Student: They are.) They are definitely coloured. So, that part [of the Supreme Soul] itself is unique. That is the part of the Sadguru. Even in the path of Bhakti it is said that you should obey the Guru’s orders. You should not do as the Guru does.
Time: 03.22-05.30
Student: Baba, are the names of Ram and Krishna given by the parents who give them birth or do the Golden Age parents name them?
Baba: Have the names been given in the Confluence Age or in the Golden Age, the Silver Age, the Copper Age and the Iron Age? (Student: In the Confluence Age.) All the names have been given in the Confluence Age. And do parents give names in the Confluence Age or are the names given as per the tasks that they perform? (Student: According to the task performed.) The Father teaches the tasks. [He says:] Perform such and such actions. So, the children who perform the best actions are given the best names. The name Ram was given. So, definitely the one in whom, in whose remembrance the souls of the yogis have taken delight, was named as Ram. It is also written in the scriptures: Ramyate yogino yasmin iti Raam. The one in whom the yogis take delight, himself is Ram. He is the God of the yogis. Shankar is also called Yogishwar (lord of the yogis). Krishna is also called Yogishwar. They considered that Krishna who plays the part of the one with a child like intellect [to be Yogishwar]. Actually it is about the Confluence Age Krishna. Sanat Kumar is also called Yogishwar. The eldest son of Brahma who was the most knowledgeable is called Yogishwar. Actually, the one according to whose name... Sanat Kumar, according to whose name the Ancient Religion (Sanatan Dharma) has been established, the one who helps the most in the establishment of the Ancient Religion himself is Ram, Yogishwar Shankar, Sanat Kumar.
Time: 05.34-07.11
Student: Baba, the one who brings about an end does everything. It is said so.
Baba: Yes.
Student: What is its meaning?
Baba: Will the one who brings the end be present in the beginning or not? It is said: As is the beginning, so shall be the end. It means that will the souls that were present in the beginning of the world be elevated souls or lowly souls? They will be elevated souls. Those who started the new world they themselves become the most degraded ones when God comes in the end. The ones who begin, themselves remain victorious till the end because God remains helpful to them. Everyone else will return to the Supreme Abode in the end. They will play the part till the end. This is why those who play an all-round part are called high. Are those who played fewer parts in the world cycle more experienced or are those who played an all-round part in the entire world cycle more experienced? Those who play an all-round part, those who play a part from the beginning till the end are more experienced. They are the ancestors of everyone. They are worship worthy for everyone. The ancestors are worshipped, aren’t they? ... (to be continued.)
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Re: Q&A: PBK Murli discussions
वार्तालाप-624, निलंगा, दिनांक 07.09.08
भाग-2
समयः 07.16-09.16
जिज्ञासुः बाबा, सतयुग की आबादी नौ लाख बताई हुई है। साढ़े चार लाख जन्म देने वाले और साढ़े चार लाख जन्म लेने वाले। उसमें साढ़े चार लाख जो हैं वो नौ धर्मों से कनेक्टेड हैं। वो तो नौ पंजे पैंतालीस। सूर्यवंशी 50000, चन्द्रवंशी 50000।
बाबाः साढ़े चार लाख जो हैं वो प्रजा दो वर्गों में से आती है। एक चन्द्रवंशी एक सूर्यवंशी। चन्द्रवंशी माने चन्द्रमा को फॉलो करने वाले, चन्द्रमा की औलाद। और सूर्यवंशी माने सूर्य को फॉलो करने वाले, सूर्य की औलाद। हाँ, तो?
जिज्ञासुः एक-एक धर्म के 50-50 हजार हो गए। नौ पंजे पैंतालीस हज़ार हैं ना, साढ़े चार लाख।
बाबाः साढ़े चार लाख हैं उनके नौ हिस्से किये गए। हाँ।
जिज्ञासुः सूर्यवंशी के 50000 है, चन्द्रवंशी 50[000], इस्लामवंशी 50[000], बौद्धी 50[000], क्रिश्चियन 50[000], सन्यास 50[000], मुस्लिम 50[000] और सिक्ख धर्म के 50[000] और आर्य समाजी 50[000], नौ पंजे पैंतालीस हो गए। जो सूर्यवंशी पक्के 50000 हैं वो द्वापरयुग में कनवर्ट होते हैं क्या और अनेक धर्मों में?
बाबाः तो वो पक्के कहाँ रहे? पक्के तो उनको कहा जाएगा जो आदि से लेकरके अंत तक कनवर्ट नहीं होते। टकराते रहते हैं विदेशियों से।
जिज्ञासुः 50 हजार टकराते रहते हैं।
बाबाः हाँ, जी।
जिज्ञासुः कनवर्ट नहीं होते।
बाबाः सूर्यवंशियों में ताकत होगी तब तो टकरायेंगे। सूर्य क्या करता है? खुद भी जलता है और दूसरों को भी जलाता है। अग्नि में जितना तपते हैं उतना पावन बनते हैं, कुन्दन बनते हैं। सूर्य की रोशनी भी तपाती है। ये है ज्ञान की रोशनी।
समयः 09.22-11.10
जिज्ञासुः बाबा, कृष्ण के साथ गोप-गोपी दिखाते हैं। और राम के साथ बन्दर क्यों दिखाते हैं?
बाबाः ये तो राम और कृष्ण के भक्तों की लड़ाई है। क्या? जो राम के भक्त बने, राम के जो फालोवर बने स्पेशल उनमें विकार ज्यादा होते हैं या नहीं होते हैं? (जिज्ञासु – होते हैं।) उनमें जास्ती विकार होते हैं। क्यों? कृष्ण के फालोवर्स में जास्ती विकार क्यों नहीं होते? क्योंकि कृष्ण की आत्मा की राशि क्राइस्ट से मिलाई जाती है। क्यों मिलाई गई क्राइस्ट से? कृष्ण और कृष्ण के फालोवर्स में बुद्धि ज्यादा होती है या राम और राम के फालोवर्स में बुद्धि ज्यादा होती है? (जिज्ञासु – राम और... ) वो बुद्धिमान बाप के बुद्धिमान बच्चे। और वो किसको फालो कर लेते हैं? क्राइस्ट को फालो कर लेते हैं विदेशियों को। राधा कहाँ से आएगी? विदेश से आती है या स्वदेश से आती है? विदेश से आती है। तो संस्कार तो विदेशियों के पड़ जाते हैं ना। हाँ, जी। समझ में आया? किसने पूछा था? बात समझ में आ गई? (जिज्ञासु - हाँ ।) हाँ, जी।
समयः 11.11- 12:58
जिज्ञासुः बाबा, ये जो 12 ज्योतिर्लिंग हैं, उसमें अष्ट देव आ सकते हैं क्या? 12 ज्योतिर्लिंग में अष्ट देव?
बाबाः अष्ट देव? 12 ज्योतिर्लिंगम् जो हैं, वो 12 उन आत्माओं की यादगार हैं जो 11 रुद्र बनते हैं जिनमें मुखिया प्रवेश करता है। शिव प्रवेश करता है या मुकर्रर पार्टधारी प्रवेश करता है? शिव सबमें प्रवेश नहीं करता है। शिव तो एकव्यापी बनकरके प्रत्यक्ष होता है संसार में। हाँ, जिस मुकर्रर रथ में आता है वो आत्मा 11 रुद्रों में प्रवेश करती है। इसलिए 12 शिवलिंग, ज्योतिर्लिंगम् गाए हुए हैं।
दूसरा जिज्ञासुः बाकी जो शिवलिंग, शिव मन्दिर रहते हैं वो?
बाबाः यादगार हैं और रुद्रगणों की। जो भी रुद्र गण हैं उन्होंने बीजरूपी स्टेज धारण की है या नहीं की है? लिंगरुप बने हैं या नहीं बने हैं? नाक, आँख, कान, इन्द्रियों की स्मृति को भूले हैं या नहीं भूले हैं? भूले हैं। इसलिए उनकी यादगार है। अब वो चाहे 108 की माला के रुद्र मणके हों और चाहे वो 1 लाख शालिग्राम हों जो रुद्र यज्ञ में बनाए जाते हैं। वो भी यादगार हैं, नंबरवार हैं। एक जैसी मालाएं नहीं हैं और एक जैसी आत्माएं नहीं हैं।
समयः 13.08-16.01
जिज्ञासुः बाबा, बारह में से आठ अष्ट देव हैं और चार नष्ट देव हैं।
बाबाः ठीक है।
जिज्ञासुः तो नष्ट देव बोले तो क्या बाबा?
बाबाः उनका काम क्या है?
जिज्ञासुः विनाश करना।
बाबाः तो ये काम आसान है या कठिन है? (जिज्ञासु – कठिन।) ये कठिन काम सब कोई नहीं कर पाते हैं। निकृष्ट काम है या श्रेष्ठ काम है? (जिज्ञासु – निकृष्ट काम है।) शंकर को भी बायीं ओर बैठाया है या दायीं ओर बैठाया है? (जिज्ञासु – बायीं ओर।) बायीं ओर क्यों बैठाया ? (जिज्ञासु – विनाश करने के लिए।) उसके हाथ में जो काम आता है वो काम कैसा है? दायें हाथ का काम है या बायें हाथ का काम है? अरे, वाममार्गी काम है, वाममार्गियों के संसर्ग संपर्क में ज्यादा आता है या दायें मार्ग वालों के संपर्क में ज्यादा आता है? बाप बाहर संभालता है और माँ अंदर संभालती है। उसका, माँ का नाम है ब्रह्मा। और बाप तो जगतपिता है। दूसरे धर्म की जो आत्माएँ हैं, बड़ी कठोर आत्माएं, उनको भी कंट्रोल करने वाला है। ऐसे ही वो तीन राम के भाई हैं जो तीन धर्मों के मुखिया हैं। एडवांस पार्टी में आदि वाली आत्माएं हैं, ज्यादा पावरफुल हैं या कम पावरफुल हैं? (जिज्ञासु – ज्यादा पावरफुल।) ज्यादा पावरफुल हैं। बीच में आने वाले लल्लू-पंजू तो विरोध कर भी नहीं सकते। वो आदि से लेकरके अंत तक विरोध करती हैं। सदगुरु निंदक ठौर न पावैं। नज़दीक उनको सेवा करने का चांस नहीं मिलता अंत में। जब विनाश होगा तो विनाशी धर्मखंडों में जाकरके सर्विस करेंगे। इब्राहिम, बुद्ध, क्राइस्ट जैसी आत्माओं को निकालने के निमित्त बनेंगे। इब्राहिम, बुद्ध, क्राइस्ट जैसी सशक्त आत्माएं निकलेंगी तो अपने फालोवर्स को खींच करके बाप का बनाय देंगी।
Disc.CD No.624, dated 07.09.08 at Nilanga
Part-2
Time: 07.16-09.16
Student: Baba, the population of the Golden Age is said to be nine lakh (nine hundred thousand). Four and a half lakh (450 thousand) who give birth and four and a half lakh who are born. Among them four and a half lakh are connected to the nine religions. They are nine multiplied by five, i.e. forty five. 50,000 Suryavanshi, 50,000 Chandravanshi.
Baba: The four and a half lakh subjects come from two categories. One is the Chandravansh (the Moon dynasty) [and] one is the Suryavansh (the Sun dynasty). Chandravanshiis means those who follow the Moon, the children of the Moon. And Suryavanshiis means the children of the Sun, who follow the Sun. Yes, so?
Student: There are 50,000 each of every religion. Nine multiplied by five is forty five thousand, isn’t it? Four and a half lakh.
Baba: There are four and a half lakh; they are divided into nine parts. Yes.
Student: There are 50,000 of the Suryavansh, 50[000] Chandravanshiis, 50[000] Islamvanshiis[Those belonging to the Islam dynasty], 50[000] Buddhists, 50[000] Christians, 50[000] Sanyasis, 50[000] Muslims and 50[000] of the Sikh religion and 50[000] Arya Samajis; nine multiplied by five is forty five. Do the 50000 firm Suryavanshiis convert to the other various religions in the Copper Age?
Baba: So, did they remain firm? Those who do not convert from the beginning till the end will be called firm. They keep clashing with the foreigners.
Student: 50,000 keep clashing [with the foreigners].
Baba: Yes.
Student: They do not convert.
Baba: Suryavanshiis will clash only when they have power. What does the Sun do? It burns itself and burns others as well. The more someone burns in the fire, the purer, pure gold he becomes. Sunlight also burns. This is the light of knowledge.
Time: 09.22-11.10
Student: Baba, gop-gopis are shown with Krishna. And why are monkeys shown with Ram?
Baba: This is a fight between the devotees of Ram and Krishna. What? Do those who became the devotees of Ram, the special followers of Ram have more vices or not? (Student: They have.) They have more vices. Why? Why don’t the followers of Krishna have more vices? It is because the horoscope (raashi) of the soul of Krishna is matched with that of Christ. Why is it matched with Christ? Do Krishna and the followers of Krishna have more intellect or do Ram and the followers of Ram have more intellect? (Students: Ram and ...) They are the intelligent children of the intelligent Father. And whom do they (followers of Krishna) follow? They follow Christ, the foreigners. Where will Radha come from? Does she come from abroad or from swadesh (India)? She comes from abroad (videsh). So, she develops the sanskaars of the foreigners, doesn’t she? Yes. Did you understand? Who had [the question]? Did you understand the topic? (Student : Yes) Yes.
Time: 11.11- 12:58
Student: Baba, can the eight deities be included among the 12 jyotirlings[Several chief Shivlings (said to number twelve)]? Can the eight deities [be included] among the 12 jyotirlings?
Baba: The eight deities? The 12 jyotirlingams are the memorial of those 12 souls which become the 11 Rudras in whom the chief enters. Does Shiva enter or does the permanent actor enter? Shiva does not enter everyone. Shiva is revealed in the world as ekvyaapi (present in one being). Yes, the soul of the permanent Chariot which He enters enters the 11 Rudras. This is why 12 Shivlings, Jyotirlingams are famous.
Another Student: What about the other Shivlings, and the temples of Shiva?
Baba: They are the memorial of the other Rudragans[Followers of Rudra / Shankar]. Have all the Rudragans imbibed the seed form stage or not? Have they become like a ling or not? Have they forgotten the awareness of the indriyaan[Parts of the body and organs of the senses] like nose, eyes, ears or not? They have forgotten it. This is why it is their memorial. Well, whether they are the beads of Rudra of the rosary of 108 or whether they are the 1 lakh shaligrams which are prepared during the Rudra Yagya. They are also the memorial, they are number wise (high or low). The rosaries are not alike and the souls are not alike.
Time: 13.08-16.01
Student: Baba, eight out of the twelve [beads] are the eight deities (asht dev) and four are the deities of destruction (nasht dev).
Baba: It is correct.
Student: So, what is meant by nasht dev Baba?
Baba: What is their task?
Student: To bring destruction.
Baba: So, is this task easy or difficult? (Student: It is difficult.) Everyone is not able to perform this difficult task. Is it a lowly task or an elevated task? (Student: It is a lowly task.) Has Shankar also been made to seat on the left side or on the right side? (Student: Left side.) Why has he been made to seat on the left side? (Student: To destroy.) How is the task that comes into his hands? Is it a task of the right hand or of the left hand? Arey, is it a task of the left [hand], does he come more in the contact and connection of the leftists (those from the left side of the tree) or does he come more in the contact of those who follow the right path? The Father takes care of the outside affairs and the mother takes care of the affairs in [the house]. Her, the mother’s name is Brahma. And the Father is the Father of the world. He controls even the souls of the other religions, the very tough souls. Similarly, there are those three brothers of Ram who are the chiefs of the three religions. Are the souls of the beginning of the Advance Party more powerful or less powerful? (Student: More powerful.) They are more powerful. The weak [souls] who come in the middle cannot even oppose. [But] they (i.e. the souls of the beginning of the Advance Party) oppose from the beginning till the end. Those who defame the Sadguru cannot find accommodation. They do not get a chance to do service being close [to Baba] in the end. They will go to the destructible religious lands and do service when the destruction takes places. They will become instruments to give knowledge to the souls like Abraham, Buddha, Christ. When the powerful souls like Abraham, Buddha, Christ emerge, they will pull their followers and make them the Father’s [children]. ... (to be continued.)
भाग-2
समयः 07.16-09.16
जिज्ञासुः बाबा, सतयुग की आबादी नौ लाख बताई हुई है। साढ़े चार लाख जन्म देने वाले और साढ़े चार लाख जन्म लेने वाले। उसमें साढ़े चार लाख जो हैं वो नौ धर्मों से कनेक्टेड हैं। वो तो नौ पंजे पैंतालीस। सूर्यवंशी 50000, चन्द्रवंशी 50000।
बाबाः साढ़े चार लाख जो हैं वो प्रजा दो वर्गों में से आती है। एक चन्द्रवंशी एक सूर्यवंशी। चन्द्रवंशी माने चन्द्रमा को फॉलो करने वाले, चन्द्रमा की औलाद। और सूर्यवंशी माने सूर्य को फॉलो करने वाले, सूर्य की औलाद। हाँ, तो?
जिज्ञासुः एक-एक धर्म के 50-50 हजार हो गए। नौ पंजे पैंतालीस हज़ार हैं ना, साढ़े चार लाख।
बाबाः साढ़े चार लाख हैं उनके नौ हिस्से किये गए। हाँ।
जिज्ञासुः सूर्यवंशी के 50000 है, चन्द्रवंशी 50[000], इस्लामवंशी 50[000], बौद्धी 50[000], क्रिश्चियन 50[000], सन्यास 50[000], मुस्लिम 50[000] और सिक्ख धर्म के 50[000] और आर्य समाजी 50[000], नौ पंजे पैंतालीस हो गए। जो सूर्यवंशी पक्के 50000 हैं वो द्वापरयुग में कनवर्ट होते हैं क्या और अनेक धर्मों में?
बाबाः तो वो पक्के कहाँ रहे? पक्के तो उनको कहा जाएगा जो आदि से लेकरके अंत तक कनवर्ट नहीं होते। टकराते रहते हैं विदेशियों से।
जिज्ञासुः 50 हजार टकराते रहते हैं।
बाबाः हाँ, जी।
जिज्ञासुः कनवर्ट नहीं होते।
बाबाः सूर्यवंशियों में ताकत होगी तब तो टकरायेंगे। सूर्य क्या करता है? खुद भी जलता है और दूसरों को भी जलाता है। अग्नि में जितना तपते हैं उतना पावन बनते हैं, कुन्दन बनते हैं। सूर्य की रोशनी भी तपाती है। ये है ज्ञान की रोशनी।
समयः 09.22-11.10
जिज्ञासुः बाबा, कृष्ण के साथ गोप-गोपी दिखाते हैं। और राम के साथ बन्दर क्यों दिखाते हैं?
बाबाः ये तो राम और कृष्ण के भक्तों की लड़ाई है। क्या? जो राम के भक्त बने, राम के जो फालोवर बने स्पेशल उनमें विकार ज्यादा होते हैं या नहीं होते हैं? (जिज्ञासु – होते हैं।) उनमें जास्ती विकार होते हैं। क्यों? कृष्ण के फालोवर्स में जास्ती विकार क्यों नहीं होते? क्योंकि कृष्ण की आत्मा की राशि क्राइस्ट से मिलाई जाती है। क्यों मिलाई गई क्राइस्ट से? कृष्ण और कृष्ण के फालोवर्स में बुद्धि ज्यादा होती है या राम और राम के फालोवर्स में बुद्धि ज्यादा होती है? (जिज्ञासु – राम और... ) वो बुद्धिमान बाप के बुद्धिमान बच्चे। और वो किसको फालो कर लेते हैं? क्राइस्ट को फालो कर लेते हैं विदेशियों को। राधा कहाँ से आएगी? विदेश से आती है या स्वदेश से आती है? विदेश से आती है। तो संस्कार तो विदेशियों के पड़ जाते हैं ना। हाँ, जी। समझ में आया? किसने पूछा था? बात समझ में आ गई? (जिज्ञासु - हाँ ।) हाँ, जी।
समयः 11.11- 12:58
जिज्ञासुः बाबा, ये जो 12 ज्योतिर्लिंग हैं, उसमें अष्ट देव आ सकते हैं क्या? 12 ज्योतिर्लिंग में अष्ट देव?
बाबाः अष्ट देव? 12 ज्योतिर्लिंगम् जो हैं, वो 12 उन आत्माओं की यादगार हैं जो 11 रुद्र बनते हैं जिनमें मुखिया प्रवेश करता है। शिव प्रवेश करता है या मुकर्रर पार्टधारी प्रवेश करता है? शिव सबमें प्रवेश नहीं करता है। शिव तो एकव्यापी बनकरके प्रत्यक्ष होता है संसार में। हाँ, जिस मुकर्रर रथ में आता है वो आत्मा 11 रुद्रों में प्रवेश करती है। इसलिए 12 शिवलिंग, ज्योतिर्लिंगम् गाए हुए हैं।
दूसरा जिज्ञासुः बाकी जो शिवलिंग, शिव मन्दिर रहते हैं वो?
बाबाः यादगार हैं और रुद्रगणों की। जो भी रुद्र गण हैं उन्होंने बीजरूपी स्टेज धारण की है या नहीं की है? लिंगरुप बने हैं या नहीं बने हैं? नाक, आँख, कान, इन्द्रियों की स्मृति को भूले हैं या नहीं भूले हैं? भूले हैं। इसलिए उनकी यादगार है। अब वो चाहे 108 की माला के रुद्र मणके हों और चाहे वो 1 लाख शालिग्राम हों जो रुद्र यज्ञ में बनाए जाते हैं। वो भी यादगार हैं, नंबरवार हैं। एक जैसी मालाएं नहीं हैं और एक जैसी आत्माएं नहीं हैं।
समयः 13.08-16.01
जिज्ञासुः बाबा, बारह में से आठ अष्ट देव हैं और चार नष्ट देव हैं।
बाबाः ठीक है।
जिज्ञासुः तो नष्ट देव बोले तो क्या बाबा?
बाबाः उनका काम क्या है?
जिज्ञासुः विनाश करना।
बाबाः तो ये काम आसान है या कठिन है? (जिज्ञासु – कठिन।) ये कठिन काम सब कोई नहीं कर पाते हैं। निकृष्ट काम है या श्रेष्ठ काम है? (जिज्ञासु – निकृष्ट काम है।) शंकर को भी बायीं ओर बैठाया है या दायीं ओर बैठाया है? (जिज्ञासु – बायीं ओर।) बायीं ओर क्यों बैठाया ? (जिज्ञासु – विनाश करने के लिए।) उसके हाथ में जो काम आता है वो काम कैसा है? दायें हाथ का काम है या बायें हाथ का काम है? अरे, वाममार्गी काम है, वाममार्गियों के संसर्ग संपर्क में ज्यादा आता है या दायें मार्ग वालों के संपर्क में ज्यादा आता है? बाप बाहर संभालता है और माँ अंदर संभालती है। उसका, माँ का नाम है ब्रह्मा। और बाप तो जगतपिता है। दूसरे धर्म की जो आत्माएँ हैं, बड़ी कठोर आत्माएं, उनको भी कंट्रोल करने वाला है। ऐसे ही वो तीन राम के भाई हैं जो तीन धर्मों के मुखिया हैं। एडवांस पार्टी में आदि वाली आत्माएं हैं, ज्यादा पावरफुल हैं या कम पावरफुल हैं? (जिज्ञासु – ज्यादा पावरफुल।) ज्यादा पावरफुल हैं। बीच में आने वाले लल्लू-पंजू तो विरोध कर भी नहीं सकते। वो आदि से लेकरके अंत तक विरोध करती हैं। सदगुरु निंदक ठौर न पावैं। नज़दीक उनको सेवा करने का चांस नहीं मिलता अंत में। जब विनाश होगा तो विनाशी धर्मखंडों में जाकरके सर्विस करेंगे। इब्राहिम, बुद्ध, क्राइस्ट जैसी आत्माओं को निकालने के निमित्त बनेंगे। इब्राहिम, बुद्ध, क्राइस्ट जैसी सशक्त आत्माएं निकलेंगी तो अपने फालोवर्स को खींच करके बाप का बनाय देंगी।
Disc.CD No.624, dated 07.09.08 at Nilanga
Part-2
Time: 07.16-09.16
Student: Baba, the population of the Golden Age is said to be nine lakh (nine hundred thousand). Four and a half lakh (450 thousand) who give birth and four and a half lakh who are born. Among them four and a half lakh are connected to the nine religions. They are nine multiplied by five, i.e. forty five. 50,000 Suryavanshi, 50,000 Chandravanshi.
Baba: The four and a half lakh subjects come from two categories. One is the Chandravansh (the Moon dynasty) [and] one is the Suryavansh (the Sun dynasty). Chandravanshiis means those who follow the Moon, the children of the Moon. And Suryavanshiis means the children of the Sun, who follow the Sun. Yes, so?
Student: There are 50,000 each of every religion. Nine multiplied by five is forty five thousand, isn’t it? Four and a half lakh.
Baba: There are four and a half lakh; they are divided into nine parts. Yes.
Student: There are 50,000 of the Suryavansh, 50[000] Chandravanshiis, 50[000] Islamvanshiis[Those belonging to the Islam dynasty], 50[000] Buddhists, 50[000] Christians, 50[000] Sanyasis, 50[000] Muslims and 50[000] of the Sikh religion and 50[000] Arya Samajis; nine multiplied by five is forty five. Do the 50000 firm Suryavanshiis convert to the other various religions in the Copper Age?
Baba: So, did they remain firm? Those who do not convert from the beginning till the end will be called firm. They keep clashing with the foreigners.
Student: 50,000 keep clashing [with the foreigners].
Baba: Yes.
Student: They do not convert.
Baba: Suryavanshiis will clash only when they have power. What does the Sun do? It burns itself and burns others as well. The more someone burns in the fire, the purer, pure gold he becomes. Sunlight also burns. This is the light of knowledge.
Time: 09.22-11.10
Student: Baba, gop-gopis are shown with Krishna. And why are monkeys shown with Ram?
Baba: This is a fight between the devotees of Ram and Krishna. What? Do those who became the devotees of Ram, the special followers of Ram have more vices or not? (Student: They have.) They have more vices. Why? Why don’t the followers of Krishna have more vices? It is because the horoscope (raashi) of the soul of Krishna is matched with that of Christ. Why is it matched with Christ? Do Krishna and the followers of Krishna have more intellect or do Ram and the followers of Ram have more intellect? (Students: Ram and ...) They are the intelligent children of the intelligent Father. And whom do they (followers of Krishna) follow? They follow Christ, the foreigners. Where will Radha come from? Does she come from abroad or from swadesh (India)? She comes from abroad (videsh). So, she develops the sanskaars of the foreigners, doesn’t she? Yes. Did you understand? Who had [the question]? Did you understand the topic? (Student : Yes) Yes.
Time: 11.11- 12:58
Student: Baba, can the eight deities be included among the 12 jyotirlings[Several chief Shivlings (said to number twelve)]? Can the eight deities [be included] among the 12 jyotirlings?
Baba: The eight deities? The 12 jyotirlingams are the memorial of those 12 souls which become the 11 Rudras in whom the chief enters. Does Shiva enter or does the permanent actor enter? Shiva does not enter everyone. Shiva is revealed in the world as ekvyaapi (present in one being). Yes, the soul of the permanent Chariot which He enters enters the 11 Rudras. This is why 12 Shivlings, Jyotirlingams are famous.
Another Student: What about the other Shivlings, and the temples of Shiva?
Baba: They are the memorial of the other Rudragans[Followers of Rudra / Shankar]. Have all the Rudragans imbibed the seed form stage or not? Have they become like a ling or not? Have they forgotten the awareness of the indriyaan[Parts of the body and organs of the senses] like nose, eyes, ears or not? They have forgotten it. This is why it is their memorial. Well, whether they are the beads of Rudra of the rosary of 108 or whether they are the 1 lakh shaligrams which are prepared during the Rudra Yagya. They are also the memorial, they are number wise (high or low). The rosaries are not alike and the souls are not alike.
Time: 13.08-16.01
Student: Baba, eight out of the twelve [beads] are the eight deities (asht dev) and four are the deities of destruction (nasht dev).
Baba: It is correct.
Student: So, what is meant by nasht dev Baba?
Baba: What is their task?
Student: To bring destruction.
Baba: So, is this task easy or difficult? (Student: It is difficult.) Everyone is not able to perform this difficult task. Is it a lowly task or an elevated task? (Student: It is a lowly task.) Has Shankar also been made to seat on the left side or on the right side? (Student: Left side.) Why has he been made to seat on the left side? (Student: To destroy.) How is the task that comes into his hands? Is it a task of the right hand or of the left hand? Arey, is it a task of the left [hand], does he come more in the contact and connection of the leftists (those from the left side of the tree) or does he come more in the contact of those who follow the right path? The Father takes care of the outside affairs and the mother takes care of the affairs in [the house]. Her, the mother’s name is Brahma. And the Father is the Father of the world. He controls even the souls of the other religions, the very tough souls. Similarly, there are those three brothers of Ram who are the chiefs of the three religions. Are the souls of the beginning of the Advance Party more powerful or less powerful? (Student: More powerful.) They are more powerful. The weak [souls] who come in the middle cannot even oppose. [But] they (i.e. the souls of the beginning of the Advance Party) oppose from the beginning till the end. Those who defame the Sadguru cannot find accommodation. They do not get a chance to do service being close [to Baba] in the end. They will go to the destructible religious lands and do service when the destruction takes places. They will become instruments to give knowledge to the souls like Abraham, Buddha, Christ. When the powerful souls like Abraham, Buddha, Christ emerge, they will pull their followers and make them the Father’s [children]. ... (to be continued.)
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Re: Q&A: PBK Murli discussions
वार्तालाप-624, निलंगा, दिनांक 07.09.08
भाग-3
समयः 16.05-17.45
जिज्ञासुः बाबा, भक्तिमार्ग में कन्याकुमारी को ज्यादा वैल्यु दिया है। तो बेहद में कौनसी कन्याकुमारी है बाबा जिसने ये पार्ट बजाया?
बाबाः जो चन्द्रवंश की राधा है, जो लक्ष्मी बनती है - राधा चन्द्रवंशी, कृष्ण? सूर्यवंशी- तो वो राधा बचपन से लेकरके और जबतक ज्ञान में आती है, ज्ञान में आने से लेकरके अंत तक कुमारी ही रहती है या अपवित्र बनती है? (जिज्ञासु – कुमारी।) कुमारी रहती है। इसलिए कुमारी कन्या का गायन है। उसके मुकाबले दूसरा गायन है अधर कुमारी का। वो कुँवारी कन्या है भारतमाता का पार्ट बजाने वाली। उसमें प्योरिटी की विशेषता है। भारत की कन्याओं-माताओं की पवित्रता की ज्यादा संभाल की जाती है या विदेशी कन्याओं-माताओं की ज्यादा संभाल की जाती है? (जिज्ञासु – भारत की।) तो भारत माता है शिवशक्ति अवतार। प्योरिटी के आधार पर वो ताकत आ जाती है। फिर उसके मुकाबले दूसरी है अधरकुमारी। जगदम्बा। ब्राह्मण जीवन काल में ही थोड़ी बेवफाई हो जाती है। अधरकुमारी बन जाती है।
समयः 17.54-22. 12
जिज्ञासुः बाबा, ये जो 12वीं और 13वीं शताब्दि में जो संत लोग होते थे महात्मा बसवेश्वर, ज्ञानेश्वर, तुकाराम महाराज। ये तो शरीर छोड़ दिये। बादमें पुनर्जन्म लेके ये पार्ट...?
बाबाः बजाते हैं।
जिज्ञासुः बजाते हैं ना।
बाबाः हाँ।
जिज्ञासुः मैंने एक से बात किया तो वो बोले ऐसा हो ही नहीं सकता। बोले उनकी सदगति हो गई।
बाबाः तो आपने उनकी बात मान ली।
जिज्ञासुः नहीं-नहीं मान लिया नहीं बाबा।
बाबाः मान ली तभी तो भरी सभा में बोल रहे हैं। (जिज्ञासु ने कुछ कहा) आपको कुछ शक है। अगर आपको शक नहीं होता, पक्का होता कि ऐसा हो ही नहीं सकता तो आपको यहाँ बोलने की जरुरत ही क्या है? वो तो झूठी बात है।
जिज्ञासुः झूठी बात है बाबा। मैंने कहा सदगति हो ही नहीं सकती।
बाबाः सदगति हो ही नहीं सकती। सदगति होके जाएंगे कहाँ? एक की सदगति होगी तो उनके पीछे ढ़ेर जाएंगे। एक की सदगति थोड़े ही हो सकती है? एक के अनेक फालोवर्स बनते हैं। अगर सबकी सदगति होती जाए तो दुनिया की जनसंख्या कम होगी या ज्यादा होगी? कम होती जाएगी। ये तो नियम बना हुआ है जो भी ऊपर से आते हैं वो इसी दुनिया में जन्म-मरण के चक्र में आते रहते हैं। कोई भी वापस नहीं जा सकता। सतोप्रधान आते हैं, और जन्म-मरण के चक्र में आते-आते तमोप्रधान बनते जाते हैं, सुख भोगते-भोगते। जितना इन्द्रियों से सुख भोगेंगे उतना तमोप्रधान बनते जावेंगे। नीचे गिरते जावेंगे। तो ऊपर चढ़ने का तो सवाल ही नहीं। अगर ऊपर चढ़ जाएं तो ऊपर चढ़ाने वाले को भगवान कहेंगे या इंसान कहेंगे? फिर तो वो भगवान हो गया। भगवान को बीच में आने की क्या दरकार? भगवान तो अंत में ही आता है। और अंत में आकरके सारी दुनिया की सदगति करके जाता है। दो-चार की सदगति करे तो वो ऊँच ते ऊँच भगवान या सबकी सदगति करे वो ऊँच ते ऊँच भगवान? (जिज्ञासु – सबकी सदगति करे वो ऊँच।) अपनी भी सदगति नहीं कर पाते। दो चार की भी तो करेंगे कहां से?
जिज्ञासुः उनके साथ बातचीत में ये हो गया मैं बोला उनकी सगदति हो ही नहीं सकती। वो बोले तुम जिस धर्म में जन्म लिये हो उनके बारे में ऐसा क्यों बता रहे? मैं बोला उनकी सदगति हो ही नहीं सकती।
बाबाः अब वो एक कहे - हो सकती है। दूसरा कहे - नहीं हो सकती है। तो प्रूफ देने पड़े ना। बिना प्रूफ के कैसे मानेंगे ? उनको बताना पड़े कि दुनिया नीचे गिरती जा रही है और नीचे गिरने वाली दुनिया में वो आये कहाँ से वो आत्माएं? उनसे पूछो कहाँ से आई? तो वो तो जवाब नहीं दे सकेंगे। आपके पास तो जवाब है कि आत्माएं कहाँ से आती हैं। आती हैं फिर वापिस जाने का रास्ता उनको मिलता है या नहीं मिलता है? (जिज्ञासु – नहीं मिलता है।) वापस जाने का रास्ता किसी को पता ही नहीं है। सब जन्म-मरण के चक्र में इसी दुनिया में चक्कर खाते रहते हैं। वापस तो वो ही ले जा सकता है जिसके ऊपर कर्म का बंधन न चढ़ता हो, जो संग के रंग में न आता हो। इस दुनिया में ऐसी एक भी मनुष्यात्मा नहीं है, जो संग के रंग में आकरके नीचे न गिरती हो। सबको संग का रंग लगता है। एक शिवबाबा है, शिव आत्मा ही ऐसी है जिसको संग का रंग नहीं लगता। मुकर्रर रथ में रहता है, पतित तन में रहता है, पतित इन्द्रियों से कर्म करता है लेकिन संग का रंग नहीं लगता है। जिनको संग का रंग लगता है उनका पुरुषार्थ कैसा हो जाता है? डाउन हो जाता है, ऊँचा चढ़ता है? डाउन हो जाता है।
Disc.CD No.624, dated 07.09.08 at Nilanga
Part-3
Time: 16.05-17.45
Student: Baba, Kanyakumari has been given more value in the path of Bhakti. So, who is the unlimited Kanyakumari who has played this part?
Baba: The Radha of the Moon dynasty, who becomes Lakshmi - Radha is Chandravanshii and what about Krishna? [He is] Suryavanshii - so, does that Radha remain just a virgin (kumaari) from her childhood to the time she enters the path of knowledge and from the time she enters the path of knowledge till the end or does she become impure? (Student: Virgin.) She remains a virgin. This is why Kumaari kanyaa (virgin) is praised. In contrast to it the other praise is of Adhar Kumaari (a married woman who follows celibacy in life). That Kumaari kanyaa is the one who plays the part of Mother India. She has the specialty of purity. Is the purity of the virgins and mothers of India safeguarded more or is the [purity of the] virgins and mothers of the foreign countries safeguarded more? (Student: Of India.) So, Mother India is an incarnation of Shivshakti (consort of Shiva). She gets that power because of purity. Then, in contrast to her the other one is Adhar Kumaari, Jagdamba. She shows a little disloyalty (bevafaai) in her Brahmin life itself. She becomes an adhar kumaari.
Time: 17.54-22.12
Student: Baba, the saints of the 12th and 13th century like Mahatma Basaweshwar, Gyaneshwar, Tukaram Maharaj have left their body. After being born again, their part…
Baba: They play [a part].
Student: They play, don’t they?
Baba: Yes.
Student: I spoke to a [person] and he said this cannot be possible at all. He said, they have attained true liberation (sadgati).
Baba: So, you accepted what he said.
Student: No, no Baba I did not accept.
Baba: You have accepted it; that is why you are speaking in front of the entire gathering. :D (Student said something.) You have some doubt. If you did not have a doubt, if you were sure that it cannot be possible at all, then where is the need for you to speak here? That is a false topic.
Student: Baba, it is false. I said that they cannot achieve true liberation at all.
Baba: They cannot achieve sadgati at all. Where will they go after achieving sadgati? If one achieves sadgati then numerous [souls] will go behind them. Just one [soul] cannot achieve sadgati. Many become the followers of one [soul]. If everyone goes on achieving sadgati will the population of the world decrease or increase? It will go on decreasing. It is a rule that whoever comes from above (the Soul World) keeps coming in the cycle of birth and death in this world itself. Nobody can go back. They come satopradhaan and passing through the cycle of birth and death, enjoying pleasures they go on becoming tamopradhaan. The more they experience pleasures through the indriyaa, the more they will go on becoming tamopradhaan. They will go on experiencing downfall. So, there is no question of rising up at all. If they rise up, then will the one who enables them to rise up be called God or a human being? Then he happens to be God. What is the need for God to come in the middle [of the Kalpa]? God comes only in the end. And after coming in the end He brings the sadgati of the entire world and then goes. Is the one who brings the sadgati of two-four [souls] the highest on high God or is the one who brings the sadgati of everyone the highest on high God? (Student: The one who brings everybody’s sadgati is the highest.) They themselves are unable to achieve true liberation. How can they bring the sadgati of even two-four [souls]?
Student: During my conversation with him I said that they cannot achieve sadgati at all. He said why are you speaking like this about them despite being born in the same religion? I said, they cannot achieve sadgati at all.
Baba: Well, one says: It is possible, the other says: It cannot be possible, so, you will have to give them proofs, won’t you? How will they accept without proofs? You will have to tell them, the world is experiencing downfall. From where did those souls come in the world that is experiencing downfall? Ask them where they came from. They will be unable to reply. You have reply [to the question] where the souls come from. Do they find the path to go back or not after they come? (Student: They don’t find.) Nobody knows the path to go back at all. Everyone keeps passing through the cycle of birth and death in this world itself. Only the One who is not bound by the bondage of karma and the one who does not come in the colour of the company can take [you] back. There is not even a single human soul in this world which does not experience downfall by being coloured by the company. Everyone is coloured by the company. It is ShivBaba, the soul Shiva alone who is not coloured by the company. He stays in the permanent Chariot, in the impure body, He acts through the impure indriyaa but He is not coloured by the colour of the company. How does the purushaarth of the ones who are coloured by the company become? Does it go down or does it rise high? It goes down. ... (to be continued.)
भाग-3
समयः 16.05-17.45
जिज्ञासुः बाबा, भक्तिमार्ग में कन्याकुमारी को ज्यादा वैल्यु दिया है। तो बेहद में कौनसी कन्याकुमारी है बाबा जिसने ये पार्ट बजाया?
बाबाः जो चन्द्रवंश की राधा है, जो लक्ष्मी बनती है - राधा चन्द्रवंशी, कृष्ण? सूर्यवंशी- तो वो राधा बचपन से लेकरके और जबतक ज्ञान में आती है, ज्ञान में आने से लेकरके अंत तक कुमारी ही रहती है या अपवित्र बनती है? (जिज्ञासु – कुमारी।) कुमारी रहती है। इसलिए कुमारी कन्या का गायन है। उसके मुकाबले दूसरा गायन है अधर कुमारी का। वो कुँवारी कन्या है भारतमाता का पार्ट बजाने वाली। उसमें प्योरिटी की विशेषता है। भारत की कन्याओं-माताओं की पवित्रता की ज्यादा संभाल की जाती है या विदेशी कन्याओं-माताओं की ज्यादा संभाल की जाती है? (जिज्ञासु – भारत की।) तो भारत माता है शिवशक्ति अवतार। प्योरिटी के आधार पर वो ताकत आ जाती है। फिर उसके मुकाबले दूसरी है अधरकुमारी। जगदम्बा। ब्राह्मण जीवन काल में ही थोड़ी बेवफाई हो जाती है। अधरकुमारी बन जाती है।
समयः 17.54-22. 12
जिज्ञासुः बाबा, ये जो 12वीं और 13वीं शताब्दि में जो संत लोग होते थे महात्मा बसवेश्वर, ज्ञानेश्वर, तुकाराम महाराज। ये तो शरीर छोड़ दिये। बादमें पुनर्जन्म लेके ये पार्ट...?
बाबाः बजाते हैं।
जिज्ञासुः बजाते हैं ना।
बाबाः हाँ।
जिज्ञासुः मैंने एक से बात किया तो वो बोले ऐसा हो ही नहीं सकता। बोले उनकी सदगति हो गई।
बाबाः तो आपने उनकी बात मान ली।
जिज्ञासुः नहीं-नहीं मान लिया नहीं बाबा।
बाबाः मान ली तभी तो भरी सभा में बोल रहे हैं। (जिज्ञासु ने कुछ कहा) आपको कुछ शक है। अगर आपको शक नहीं होता, पक्का होता कि ऐसा हो ही नहीं सकता तो आपको यहाँ बोलने की जरुरत ही क्या है? वो तो झूठी बात है।
जिज्ञासुः झूठी बात है बाबा। मैंने कहा सदगति हो ही नहीं सकती।
बाबाः सदगति हो ही नहीं सकती। सदगति होके जाएंगे कहाँ? एक की सदगति होगी तो उनके पीछे ढ़ेर जाएंगे। एक की सदगति थोड़े ही हो सकती है? एक के अनेक फालोवर्स बनते हैं। अगर सबकी सदगति होती जाए तो दुनिया की जनसंख्या कम होगी या ज्यादा होगी? कम होती जाएगी। ये तो नियम बना हुआ है जो भी ऊपर से आते हैं वो इसी दुनिया में जन्म-मरण के चक्र में आते रहते हैं। कोई भी वापस नहीं जा सकता। सतोप्रधान आते हैं, और जन्म-मरण के चक्र में आते-आते तमोप्रधान बनते जाते हैं, सुख भोगते-भोगते। जितना इन्द्रियों से सुख भोगेंगे उतना तमोप्रधान बनते जावेंगे। नीचे गिरते जावेंगे। तो ऊपर चढ़ने का तो सवाल ही नहीं। अगर ऊपर चढ़ जाएं तो ऊपर चढ़ाने वाले को भगवान कहेंगे या इंसान कहेंगे? फिर तो वो भगवान हो गया। भगवान को बीच में आने की क्या दरकार? भगवान तो अंत में ही आता है। और अंत में आकरके सारी दुनिया की सदगति करके जाता है। दो-चार की सदगति करे तो वो ऊँच ते ऊँच भगवान या सबकी सदगति करे वो ऊँच ते ऊँच भगवान? (जिज्ञासु – सबकी सदगति करे वो ऊँच।) अपनी भी सदगति नहीं कर पाते। दो चार की भी तो करेंगे कहां से?
जिज्ञासुः उनके साथ बातचीत में ये हो गया मैं बोला उनकी सगदति हो ही नहीं सकती। वो बोले तुम जिस धर्म में जन्म लिये हो उनके बारे में ऐसा क्यों बता रहे? मैं बोला उनकी सदगति हो ही नहीं सकती।
बाबाः अब वो एक कहे - हो सकती है। दूसरा कहे - नहीं हो सकती है। तो प्रूफ देने पड़े ना। बिना प्रूफ के कैसे मानेंगे ? उनको बताना पड़े कि दुनिया नीचे गिरती जा रही है और नीचे गिरने वाली दुनिया में वो आये कहाँ से वो आत्माएं? उनसे पूछो कहाँ से आई? तो वो तो जवाब नहीं दे सकेंगे। आपके पास तो जवाब है कि आत्माएं कहाँ से आती हैं। आती हैं फिर वापिस जाने का रास्ता उनको मिलता है या नहीं मिलता है? (जिज्ञासु – नहीं मिलता है।) वापस जाने का रास्ता किसी को पता ही नहीं है। सब जन्म-मरण के चक्र में इसी दुनिया में चक्कर खाते रहते हैं। वापस तो वो ही ले जा सकता है जिसके ऊपर कर्म का बंधन न चढ़ता हो, जो संग के रंग में न आता हो। इस दुनिया में ऐसी एक भी मनुष्यात्मा नहीं है, जो संग के रंग में आकरके नीचे न गिरती हो। सबको संग का रंग लगता है। एक शिवबाबा है, शिव आत्मा ही ऐसी है जिसको संग का रंग नहीं लगता। मुकर्रर रथ में रहता है, पतित तन में रहता है, पतित इन्द्रियों से कर्म करता है लेकिन संग का रंग नहीं लगता है। जिनको संग का रंग लगता है उनका पुरुषार्थ कैसा हो जाता है? डाउन हो जाता है, ऊँचा चढ़ता है? डाउन हो जाता है।
Disc.CD No.624, dated 07.09.08 at Nilanga
Part-3
Time: 16.05-17.45
Student: Baba, Kanyakumari has been given more value in the path of Bhakti. So, who is the unlimited Kanyakumari who has played this part?
Baba: The Radha of the Moon dynasty, who becomes Lakshmi - Radha is Chandravanshii and what about Krishna? [He is] Suryavanshii - so, does that Radha remain just a virgin (kumaari) from her childhood to the time she enters the path of knowledge and from the time she enters the path of knowledge till the end or does she become impure? (Student: Virgin.) She remains a virgin. This is why Kumaari kanyaa (virgin) is praised. In contrast to it the other praise is of Adhar Kumaari (a married woman who follows celibacy in life). That Kumaari kanyaa is the one who plays the part of Mother India. She has the specialty of purity. Is the purity of the virgins and mothers of India safeguarded more or is the [purity of the] virgins and mothers of the foreign countries safeguarded more? (Student: Of India.) So, Mother India is an incarnation of Shivshakti (consort of Shiva). She gets that power because of purity. Then, in contrast to her the other one is Adhar Kumaari, Jagdamba. She shows a little disloyalty (bevafaai) in her Brahmin life itself. She becomes an adhar kumaari.
Time: 17.54-22.12
Student: Baba, the saints of the 12th and 13th century like Mahatma Basaweshwar, Gyaneshwar, Tukaram Maharaj have left their body. After being born again, their part…
Baba: They play [a part].
Student: They play, don’t they?
Baba: Yes.
Student: I spoke to a [person] and he said this cannot be possible at all. He said, they have attained true liberation (sadgati).
Baba: So, you accepted what he said.
Student: No, no Baba I did not accept.
Baba: You have accepted it; that is why you are speaking in front of the entire gathering. :D (Student said something.) You have some doubt. If you did not have a doubt, if you were sure that it cannot be possible at all, then where is the need for you to speak here? That is a false topic.
Student: Baba, it is false. I said that they cannot achieve true liberation at all.
Baba: They cannot achieve sadgati at all. Where will they go after achieving sadgati? If one achieves sadgati then numerous [souls] will go behind them. Just one [soul] cannot achieve sadgati. Many become the followers of one [soul]. If everyone goes on achieving sadgati will the population of the world decrease or increase? It will go on decreasing. It is a rule that whoever comes from above (the Soul World) keeps coming in the cycle of birth and death in this world itself. Nobody can go back. They come satopradhaan and passing through the cycle of birth and death, enjoying pleasures they go on becoming tamopradhaan. The more they experience pleasures through the indriyaa, the more they will go on becoming tamopradhaan. They will go on experiencing downfall. So, there is no question of rising up at all. If they rise up, then will the one who enables them to rise up be called God or a human being? Then he happens to be God. What is the need for God to come in the middle [of the Kalpa]? God comes only in the end. And after coming in the end He brings the sadgati of the entire world and then goes. Is the one who brings the sadgati of two-four [souls] the highest on high God or is the one who brings the sadgati of everyone the highest on high God? (Student: The one who brings everybody’s sadgati is the highest.) They themselves are unable to achieve true liberation. How can they bring the sadgati of even two-four [souls]?
Student: During my conversation with him I said that they cannot achieve sadgati at all. He said why are you speaking like this about them despite being born in the same religion? I said, they cannot achieve sadgati at all.
Baba: Well, one says: It is possible, the other says: It cannot be possible, so, you will have to give them proofs, won’t you? How will they accept without proofs? You will have to tell them, the world is experiencing downfall. From where did those souls come in the world that is experiencing downfall? Ask them where they came from. They will be unable to reply. You have reply [to the question] where the souls come from. Do they find the path to go back or not after they come? (Student: They don’t find.) Nobody knows the path to go back at all. Everyone keeps passing through the cycle of birth and death in this world itself. Only the One who is not bound by the bondage of karma and the one who does not come in the colour of the company can take [you] back. There is not even a single human soul in this world which does not experience downfall by being coloured by the company. Everyone is coloured by the company. It is ShivBaba, the soul Shiva alone who is not coloured by the company. He stays in the permanent Chariot, in the impure body, He acts through the impure indriyaa but He is not coloured by the colour of the company. How does the purushaarth of the ones who are coloured by the company become? Does it go down or does it rise high? It goes down. ... (to be continued.)
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Re: Q&A: PBK Murli discussions
वार्तालाप-624, निलंगा, दिनांक 07.09.08
भाग-4
समयः 22.18-25.08
जिज्ञासुः बाबा, गुल्जार दादी द्वारा जो अव्यक्त वाणी चलती है उसके अंत में बापदादा यादप्यार देते हैं। जबकि वहाँ बाप होते ही नहीं। केवल दादा होते हैं। तो बापदादा क्यों कहा जाता है?
बाबाः बापदादा कहा जाता है, वो जो अव्यक्त वाणी चलती है, उसका क्लेरिफिकेशन देने वाला राम बाप है बच्चों के सामने टीचर के रूप में और दादा है ब्रह्मा की सोल।
जिज्ञासुः परन्तु वहाँ पर तो बाप रहते ही नहीं ना। क्लेरिफिकेशन तो वहाँ दिया ही नहीं जाता।
बाबाः वो जो बाप है वो अकेला कुछ भी नहीं करता बिन्दी बाप। बिन्दी बाप भी बाप कब कहा जाता है? (जिज्ञासु – साकार।) जब साकार में होता है तो बाप कहा जाता है। इसलिए राम वाली आत्मा बाप का पार्ट। भल उसमें शिव की सोल पार्ट बजाती है। दोनों ही बेहद के बाप हैं। और कृष्ण वाली आत्मा बच्चे का पार्ट, बच्चा बुद्धि का पार्ट। इसलिए बापदादा कहा जाता है। और दादा की आत्मा को बाप की याद रहती है। भल बाप के दो रूप हैं। एक निराकार और एक साकार। तो ब्रह्मा जब गुल्जार दादी में रहता है तो उनको बेसिक नॉलेज का प्रभाव ज्यादा रहता है कि एडवांस नॉलेज याद रहती है? बेसिक नॉलेज का प्रभाव ज्यादा रहता है। इसलिए उनको निराकार याद आता है।
जिज्ञासुः सेन्टर की एक बहनजी से हमने बात की थी। तो उन्होंने कहा कि बापदादा आते हैं, ये स्पष्टीकरण उन्होंने दिया कि दोनों भी आते हैं यहाँ पर इसलिए तो कहते हैं वो बापदादा।
बाबाः अगर दोनों आते हैं तो बाप जो है वो निराकार बाप आता है या साकार और निराकार दोनों का मेल आता है? पूछो उनसे। कौन आता है? कहेंगे निराकार शिव ज्योतिबिन्दु आता है। (जिज्ञासु – हॉं।) ये ही कहेंगे ना। तो शिव ज्योतिबिन्दु को सूक्ष्म शरीर होता है? (जिज्ञासु – नहीं।) फिर सूक्ष्म शरीर तो जिसमें प्रवेश करता है उसको कुछ याद ही नहीं रहता। कोई भी सूक्ष्म शरीरधारी आत्मा प्रवेश करेगी तो जिसमें प्रवेश करेगी उसको दबोच लेगी, उसकी आत्मा को। वो सब कुछ भूल जाता है। गुल्ज़ार दादी भी सब कुछ भूल जाती है। और शिव ज्योति बिन्दु पतित में प्रवेश करेगा या पावन कन्या में प्रवेश करेगा? (जिज्ञासु – पतित में।) वह पतित में प्रवेश करता है। आपके पास ढ़ेर सारे प्वाइंट हैं। दो तड़ातड़ उनको सुना करके ठंडा कर दो।
समयः 25.18-26.40
जिज्ञासुः बाबा, माताओं के लिए [बोला है] बीवी मरे तो हलुआ खाओ।
बाबाः अम्मा मरे तो हलुआ खाओ क्योंकि माताओं को मोह का कीड़ा ज्यादा खाता है। क्या? बाप का जो पार्ट है उनको मोह का कीड़ा उतना नहीं खाता है। मोह का कीड़ा ऐसा है कि जिसको खाता है और जिसमें लगता है तो उसको अपनी ओर आकर्षित कर लेता है। एक में मोह आएगा तो जिसको याद करेगा उसमें भी मोह आ जाएगा। इसलिए बोला – भक्तिमार्ग में भी कहते हैं – मोह सकल व्याधिन कर मूला। सब प्रकार के दुखों का मूल मोह है। ये लगाव, झुकाव, अटैचमेंट। इसलिए बोला कि अम्मा मरे तो हलुआ खाओ। बीबी मरे तो हलुआ खाओ। बच्चे को ज्यादा अटैचमेंट किसका लगता है? संग का रंग ज्यादा किसका लगता है? माँ का। और पति को ज्यादा अटैचमेंट किसका लगता है? बीबी का। तो अटैचमेंट से बच जाएं, उस मोह के बंधन से छूट जाएं तो खुशी का हलुआ खाना चाहिए ना।
समयः 26.47- 30.50
जिज्ञासुः बाबा, भक्तिमार्ग में सन्त तुकाराम वैकुण्ठवासी हो गए ऐसे कहते हैं। वो उनका शरीर नहीं छुटा?
बाबाः आपने जिनसे सुना है उनकी बातों पे विश्वास कैसे कर लिया? उनसे पूछा क्यों नहीं कि स्वर्ग है कहाँ इस दुनिया में? कहीं है स्वर्ग ऊपर नीचे? (जिज्ञासु – नहीं।) इसी दुनिया में, इसी पृथ्वी पर स्वर्ग होता है, इसी पृथ्वी पर नर्क होता है या ऊपर नीचे कोई सितारे हैं, कोई ग्रह-उपग्रह हैं जहाँ स्वर्ग नर्क होता है? इसी पृथ्वी पर स्वर्ग है, इसी पृथ्वी पर नर्क है। जीव-जन्तु इसी पृथ्वी पर होते हैं। दूसरा कोई ग्रह-उपग्रह नहीं है जहाँ जीव-जन्तु होते हो।
इस पृथ्वी पर भी ऐसे स्थान हैं जहाँ कोई जीव-जंतु नहीं होता। उत्तरी ध्रुव और दक्षिणी ध्रुव। बर्फ ही बर्फ। जीव-जन्तु होने का सवाल ही नहीं। क्योंकि वहाँ पर सूर्य की किरणें तिरछी पड़ती हैं। दूर हो जाता है सूर्य। और पृथ्वी का जो हिस्सा सूरज के नज़दीक पड़ता है, वहाँ जीवजन्तु हैं। तो जीवन होने के लिए एक्जेक्ट, एक्यूरेट दूरी चाहिए। नहीं तो जीवन नहीं पनप सकता। दूसरे-दूसरे ग्रह-उपग्रह तो सूरज से कितनी दूर हैं और कितने नज़दीक हैं। वहाँ तो जीवन होने का सवाल ही पैदा नहीं होता।
इसलिए जो स्वर्ग नरक की गाथा बताते हैं कि वो स्वर्ग में गए। जाएंगे कैसे? स्वस्थिति में रहना जानते हैं जो स्वर्ग में गए? स्वर्ग का अर्थ ही नहीं जानते। स्वर्ग का अर्थ ही है जो स्वस्थिति में गया। वो स्वर्गवासी हुआ। और स्वस्थिति में जाना सिखाया किसने? कोई साधारण आत्मा स्वस्थिति में जाना सिखाएगी? जितनी भी मनुष्यात्माएं हैं सब परिस्थिति के वश हो जाती हैं। जब खुद ही परिस्थितियों के चक्कर में आ जाती हैं जन्म-जन्मान्तर तो दूसरों को या खुद को स्वस्थिति में स्थिर कैसे करेंगी? ये तो एक भगवान ही है जो सदैव स्वस्थिति में रहने वाला है। कभी भी परिस्थिति में बंधता नहीं। परचिंतन में नहीं आता। पर से प्रभावित नहीं होता। कोई का संग का रंग उसको नहीं लगता और कभी भी नहीं लगता। एक सेकण्ड भी नहीं लगता। वो ही स्वस्थिति में रहना सिखाता है। तो ये सब झूठी बातें बोलते हैं कि वो ब्रह्मलोक गया, वो स्वर्गलोक गया। पहले तो ये तो बताओ स्वर्ग है कहाँ? ये ही पता नहीं है स्विर्ग कहॉं है और ब्रह्मलोक कहॉं है तो जाने-आने की बात कहाँ से आ गई? शरीर छोड़ते हैं इसी दुनिया में, जन्म ले लेते हैं। हाँ, अच्छे कर्म किये होंगे तो अच्छे घराने में जन्म लेंगे। दुख देने के कर्म किये होंगे तो नीच घराने में जन्म मिलता है, खराब चोला मिलता है।
Disc.CD No.624, dated 07.09.08 at Nilanga
Part-4
Time: 22.18-25.08
Student: Baba, BapDada gives yaadpyaar (remembrance and love) at the end of the Avyakt Vani that is narrated through Dadi Gulzar; although the Father is not present there. There is only Dada [there]. So, why is it said BapDada?
Baba: They say BapDada; the one who gives the clarification of the Avyakt Vani which is narrated is Father Ram in the form of the teacher in front of the children. And Dada is the soul of Brahma.
Student: But the Father is not at all present there, is He? The clarification is not at all given there.
Baba: That Father, the Point Father does not do anything alone. When is that Point Father also called a Father? (Student: Corporeal.) When He is present in the corporeal form He is called a Father. This is why the soul of Ram [plays] the part of a Father although the soul of Shiva plays a part in him. Both are the unlimited Fathers. And the soul of Krishna [plays] the part of a child, the part of the one with a child like intellect; this is why they say BapDada. And Dada’s soul remembers the Father. Although there are two forms of the Father. One is incorporeal and the other is corporeal. So, when Brahma is in Dadi Gulzar, does he have more influence of the basic knowledge or does he remember the advance knowledge? There is more influence of the basic knowledge. This is why he remembers the incorporeal One.
Student: I had had spoken to a sister of a center. She said BapDada comes; she clarified that both [Bap and Dada] come here; that is why they say BapDada.
Baba: If both come, does the incorporeal Father come or does the combination of the corporeal as well as the incorporeal come? Ask them. Who comes? They will say the incorporeal Point of light Shiva comes. (Student: Yes.) They will certainly say this, will they not? So, does the Point of light Shiva have a subtle body? (Student: No.) Then, the one in whom a subtle body enters does not remember anything. If any subtle bodied soul enters, it will suppress the soul of the one whom it enters. He forgets everything. Dadi Gulzar also forgets everything. And will the Point of light Shiva enter a sinful one or a pure virgin? (Student: In a sinful one.) He enters a sinful one. You have lots of points. Give them quick succession [of points] and make them quiet. :D
Time: 25.18-26.40
Student: Baba, it has [been said] for the mothers: Eat halua (a sweet dish) if the wife dies.
Baba: Eat halua if the mother dies because mothers are troubled more by the worm of attachment. What? The Father’s part is not troubled by the worm of attachment to that extent. The worm of attachment is such that whomever it bites or whomever it finds a place in, it attracts him to itself. If someone has attachment for someone else, then the one whom he remembers will also have attachment. This is why it is said: It is said in the path of Bhakti as well: Moh sakal vyaadhiin kar muulaa. The root cause of all kinds of sorrow is attachment. This attachment, inclination. This is why it is said: ‘You should eat halua if the mother dies. You should eat halua if the wife dies.’ For whom does a child have more attachment? By whose company is he coloured more? Of the mother. And for whom does a husband have more attachment? For the wife. If you are saved from attachment, if you become free from the bondage of that attachment, you should eat the halua of joy, shouldn’t you?
Time: 26.47- 30.50
Student: Baba, it is said in the path of Bhakti that Saint Tukaram became a resident of heaven (vaikunthvaasi). So, didn’t he leave his body?
Baba: How did you believe the words of the person from whom you heard [this]? Why didn’t you ask him where heaven is in this world? Is heaven anywhere above or below? (Student: No.) Is there heaven in this very world, this very Earth, is there hell on this very Earth or are there any stars, any planet or satellite where heaven [and] hell is? There is heaven on this very Earth, there is hell on this very Earth. There are living creatures only on this Earth. There is no other planet or satellite where living creatures exist.
Even on this Earth there are such places where there are no living creatures. There is ice and only ice on the North Pole and the South Pole. There is no question of the existence of any living creatures at all because the Sunrays fall slanting there. The Sun is far. And there are living creatures in that portion of the Earth which is closer to the Sun. So, an accurate distance [ from the Sun] is required for the existence of life. Otherwise life cannot exist . Other planets and satellites are so far and so close to the Sun. There is no question of the existence of life there at all.
This is why the story of heaven and hell that they narrate that this one went to heaven… how can they go? Do they know to remain in swasthiti so that they went to heaven (swarg)? They do not know the meaning of heaven at all. Swarg itself means the one who achieved the stage of the self. He became a resident of heaven. And who taught [us] to achieve the stage of the self? Will any ordinary soul teach [us] to achieve the stage of the self? All the human souls become subject to circumstances (paristhiti). When they themselves are entangled in circumstances for many births, how can they make others or themselves constant in swasthiti? It is God alone who always remains in swasthiti. He never comes in the bondage of the circumstances. He never thinks of others (parchintan). He is not influenced by others (par). He is not coloured by the company of anyone. And He is never coloured. Not even for a second. He alone teaches [us] to remain in swasthiti. So, all these people speak lies that this person went to the Brahmlok (Supreme Abode), that person went to swarglok (heaven). [You should say:] First of all, tell [us] where heaven is. They don’t even know where heaven and Brahmalok is. Then, how does the question of coming and going arise? When someone leaves his body he is born in this world itself. Yes, if someone has performed good actions, he will be born in a good family. If someone has performed actions of giving sorrow, he is born in a low class family. He gets a defected body. ... (to be continued.)
भाग-4
समयः 22.18-25.08
जिज्ञासुः बाबा, गुल्जार दादी द्वारा जो अव्यक्त वाणी चलती है उसके अंत में बापदादा यादप्यार देते हैं। जबकि वहाँ बाप होते ही नहीं। केवल दादा होते हैं। तो बापदादा क्यों कहा जाता है?
बाबाः बापदादा कहा जाता है, वो जो अव्यक्त वाणी चलती है, उसका क्लेरिफिकेशन देने वाला राम बाप है बच्चों के सामने टीचर के रूप में और दादा है ब्रह्मा की सोल।
जिज्ञासुः परन्तु वहाँ पर तो बाप रहते ही नहीं ना। क्लेरिफिकेशन तो वहाँ दिया ही नहीं जाता।
बाबाः वो जो बाप है वो अकेला कुछ भी नहीं करता बिन्दी बाप। बिन्दी बाप भी बाप कब कहा जाता है? (जिज्ञासु – साकार।) जब साकार में होता है तो बाप कहा जाता है। इसलिए राम वाली आत्मा बाप का पार्ट। भल उसमें शिव की सोल पार्ट बजाती है। दोनों ही बेहद के बाप हैं। और कृष्ण वाली आत्मा बच्चे का पार्ट, बच्चा बुद्धि का पार्ट। इसलिए बापदादा कहा जाता है। और दादा की आत्मा को बाप की याद रहती है। भल बाप के दो रूप हैं। एक निराकार और एक साकार। तो ब्रह्मा जब गुल्जार दादी में रहता है तो उनको बेसिक नॉलेज का प्रभाव ज्यादा रहता है कि एडवांस नॉलेज याद रहती है? बेसिक नॉलेज का प्रभाव ज्यादा रहता है। इसलिए उनको निराकार याद आता है।
जिज्ञासुः सेन्टर की एक बहनजी से हमने बात की थी। तो उन्होंने कहा कि बापदादा आते हैं, ये स्पष्टीकरण उन्होंने दिया कि दोनों भी आते हैं यहाँ पर इसलिए तो कहते हैं वो बापदादा।
बाबाः अगर दोनों आते हैं तो बाप जो है वो निराकार बाप आता है या साकार और निराकार दोनों का मेल आता है? पूछो उनसे। कौन आता है? कहेंगे निराकार शिव ज्योतिबिन्दु आता है। (जिज्ञासु – हॉं।) ये ही कहेंगे ना। तो शिव ज्योतिबिन्दु को सूक्ष्म शरीर होता है? (जिज्ञासु – नहीं।) फिर सूक्ष्म शरीर तो जिसमें प्रवेश करता है उसको कुछ याद ही नहीं रहता। कोई भी सूक्ष्म शरीरधारी आत्मा प्रवेश करेगी तो जिसमें प्रवेश करेगी उसको दबोच लेगी, उसकी आत्मा को। वो सब कुछ भूल जाता है। गुल्ज़ार दादी भी सब कुछ भूल जाती है। और शिव ज्योति बिन्दु पतित में प्रवेश करेगा या पावन कन्या में प्रवेश करेगा? (जिज्ञासु – पतित में।) वह पतित में प्रवेश करता है। आपके पास ढ़ेर सारे प्वाइंट हैं। दो तड़ातड़ उनको सुना करके ठंडा कर दो।
समयः 25.18-26.40
जिज्ञासुः बाबा, माताओं के लिए [बोला है] बीवी मरे तो हलुआ खाओ।
बाबाः अम्मा मरे तो हलुआ खाओ क्योंकि माताओं को मोह का कीड़ा ज्यादा खाता है। क्या? बाप का जो पार्ट है उनको मोह का कीड़ा उतना नहीं खाता है। मोह का कीड़ा ऐसा है कि जिसको खाता है और जिसमें लगता है तो उसको अपनी ओर आकर्षित कर लेता है। एक में मोह आएगा तो जिसको याद करेगा उसमें भी मोह आ जाएगा। इसलिए बोला – भक्तिमार्ग में भी कहते हैं – मोह सकल व्याधिन कर मूला। सब प्रकार के दुखों का मूल मोह है। ये लगाव, झुकाव, अटैचमेंट। इसलिए बोला कि अम्मा मरे तो हलुआ खाओ। बीबी मरे तो हलुआ खाओ। बच्चे को ज्यादा अटैचमेंट किसका लगता है? संग का रंग ज्यादा किसका लगता है? माँ का। और पति को ज्यादा अटैचमेंट किसका लगता है? बीबी का। तो अटैचमेंट से बच जाएं, उस मोह के बंधन से छूट जाएं तो खुशी का हलुआ खाना चाहिए ना।
समयः 26.47- 30.50
जिज्ञासुः बाबा, भक्तिमार्ग में सन्त तुकाराम वैकुण्ठवासी हो गए ऐसे कहते हैं। वो उनका शरीर नहीं छुटा?
बाबाः आपने जिनसे सुना है उनकी बातों पे विश्वास कैसे कर लिया? उनसे पूछा क्यों नहीं कि स्वर्ग है कहाँ इस दुनिया में? कहीं है स्वर्ग ऊपर नीचे? (जिज्ञासु – नहीं।) इसी दुनिया में, इसी पृथ्वी पर स्वर्ग होता है, इसी पृथ्वी पर नर्क होता है या ऊपर नीचे कोई सितारे हैं, कोई ग्रह-उपग्रह हैं जहाँ स्वर्ग नर्क होता है? इसी पृथ्वी पर स्वर्ग है, इसी पृथ्वी पर नर्क है। जीव-जन्तु इसी पृथ्वी पर होते हैं। दूसरा कोई ग्रह-उपग्रह नहीं है जहाँ जीव-जन्तु होते हो।
इस पृथ्वी पर भी ऐसे स्थान हैं जहाँ कोई जीव-जंतु नहीं होता। उत्तरी ध्रुव और दक्षिणी ध्रुव। बर्फ ही बर्फ। जीव-जन्तु होने का सवाल ही नहीं। क्योंकि वहाँ पर सूर्य की किरणें तिरछी पड़ती हैं। दूर हो जाता है सूर्य। और पृथ्वी का जो हिस्सा सूरज के नज़दीक पड़ता है, वहाँ जीवजन्तु हैं। तो जीवन होने के लिए एक्जेक्ट, एक्यूरेट दूरी चाहिए। नहीं तो जीवन नहीं पनप सकता। दूसरे-दूसरे ग्रह-उपग्रह तो सूरज से कितनी दूर हैं और कितने नज़दीक हैं। वहाँ तो जीवन होने का सवाल ही पैदा नहीं होता।
इसलिए जो स्वर्ग नरक की गाथा बताते हैं कि वो स्वर्ग में गए। जाएंगे कैसे? स्वस्थिति में रहना जानते हैं जो स्वर्ग में गए? स्वर्ग का अर्थ ही नहीं जानते। स्वर्ग का अर्थ ही है जो स्वस्थिति में गया। वो स्वर्गवासी हुआ। और स्वस्थिति में जाना सिखाया किसने? कोई साधारण आत्मा स्वस्थिति में जाना सिखाएगी? जितनी भी मनुष्यात्माएं हैं सब परिस्थिति के वश हो जाती हैं। जब खुद ही परिस्थितियों के चक्कर में आ जाती हैं जन्म-जन्मान्तर तो दूसरों को या खुद को स्वस्थिति में स्थिर कैसे करेंगी? ये तो एक भगवान ही है जो सदैव स्वस्थिति में रहने वाला है। कभी भी परिस्थिति में बंधता नहीं। परचिंतन में नहीं आता। पर से प्रभावित नहीं होता। कोई का संग का रंग उसको नहीं लगता और कभी भी नहीं लगता। एक सेकण्ड भी नहीं लगता। वो ही स्वस्थिति में रहना सिखाता है। तो ये सब झूठी बातें बोलते हैं कि वो ब्रह्मलोक गया, वो स्वर्गलोक गया। पहले तो ये तो बताओ स्वर्ग है कहाँ? ये ही पता नहीं है स्विर्ग कहॉं है और ब्रह्मलोक कहॉं है तो जाने-आने की बात कहाँ से आ गई? शरीर छोड़ते हैं इसी दुनिया में, जन्म ले लेते हैं। हाँ, अच्छे कर्म किये होंगे तो अच्छे घराने में जन्म लेंगे। दुख देने के कर्म किये होंगे तो नीच घराने में जन्म मिलता है, खराब चोला मिलता है।
Disc.CD No.624, dated 07.09.08 at Nilanga
Part-4
Time: 22.18-25.08
Student: Baba, BapDada gives yaadpyaar (remembrance and love) at the end of the Avyakt Vani that is narrated through Dadi Gulzar; although the Father is not present there. There is only Dada [there]. So, why is it said BapDada?
Baba: They say BapDada; the one who gives the clarification of the Avyakt Vani which is narrated is Father Ram in the form of the teacher in front of the children. And Dada is the soul of Brahma.
Student: But the Father is not at all present there, is He? The clarification is not at all given there.
Baba: That Father, the Point Father does not do anything alone. When is that Point Father also called a Father? (Student: Corporeal.) When He is present in the corporeal form He is called a Father. This is why the soul of Ram [plays] the part of a Father although the soul of Shiva plays a part in him. Both are the unlimited Fathers. And the soul of Krishna [plays] the part of a child, the part of the one with a child like intellect; this is why they say BapDada. And Dada’s soul remembers the Father. Although there are two forms of the Father. One is incorporeal and the other is corporeal. So, when Brahma is in Dadi Gulzar, does he have more influence of the basic knowledge or does he remember the advance knowledge? There is more influence of the basic knowledge. This is why he remembers the incorporeal One.
Student: I had had spoken to a sister of a center. She said BapDada comes; she clarified that both [Bap and Dada] come here; that is why they say BapDada.
Baba: If both come, does the incorporeal Father come or does the combination of the corporeal as well as the incorporeal come? Ask them. Who comes? They will say the incorporeal Point of light Shiva comes. (Student: Yes.) They will certainly say this, will they not? So, does the Point of light Shiva have a subtle body? (Student: No.) Then, the one in whom a subtle body enters does not remember anything. If any subtle bodied soul enters, it will suppress the soul of the one whom it enters. He forgets everything. Dadi Gulzar also forgets everything. And will the Point of light Shiva enter a sinful one or a pure virgin? (Student: In a sinful one.) He enters a sinful one. You have lots of points. Give them quick succession [of points] and make them quiet. :D
Time: 25.18-26.40
Student: Baba, it has [been said] for the mothers: Eat halua (a sweet dish) if the wife dies.
Baba: Eat halua if the mother dies because mothers are troubled more by the worm of attachment. What? The Father’s part is not troubled by the worm of attachment to that extent. The worm of attachment is such that whomever it bites or whomever it finds a place in, it attracts him to itself. If someone has attachment for someone else, then the one whom he remembers will also have attachment. This is why it is said: It is said in the path of Bhakti as well: Moh sakal vyaadhiin kar muulaa. The root cause of all kinds of sorrow is attachment. This attachment, inclination. This is why it is said: ‘You should eat halua if the mother dies. You should eat halua if the wife dies.’ For whom does a child have more attachment? By whose company is he coloured more? Of the mother. And for whom does a husband have more attachment? For the wife. If you are saved from attachment, if you become free from the bondage of that attachment, you should eat the halua of joy, shouldn’t you?
Time: 26.47- 30.50
Student: Baba, it is said in the path of Bhakti that Saint Tukaram became a resident of heaven (vaikunthvaasi). So, didn’t he leave his body?
Baba: How did you believe the words of the person from whom you heard [this]? Why didn’t you ask him where heaven is in this world? Is heaven anywhere above or below? (Student: No.) Is there heaven in this very world, this very Earth, is there hell on this very Earth or are there any stars, any planet or satellite where heaven [and] hell is? There is heaven on this very Earth, there is hell on this very Earth. There are living creatures only on this Earth. There is no other planet or satellite where living creatures exist.
Even on this Earth there are such places where there are no living creatures. There is ice and only ice on the North Pole and the South Pole. There is no question of the existence of any living creatures at all because the Sunrays fall slanting there. The Sun is far. And there are living creatures in that portion of the Earth which is closer to the Sun. So, an accurate distance [ from the Sun] is required for the existence of life. Otherwise life cannot exist . Other planets and satellites are so far and so close to the Sun. There is no question of the existence of life there at all.
This is why the story of heaven and hell that they narrate that this one went to heaven… how can they go? Do they know to remain in swasthiti so that they went to heaven (swarg)? They do not know the meaning of heaven at all. Swarg itself means the one who achieved the stage of the self. He became a resident of heaven. And who taught [us] to achieve the stage of the self? Will any ordinary soul teach [us] to achieve the stage of the self? All the human souls become subject to circumstances (paristhiti). When they themselves are entangled in circumstances for many births, how can they make others or themselves constant in swasthiti? It is God alone who always remains in swasthiti. He never comes in the bondage of the circumstances. He never thinks of others (parchintan). He is not influenced by others (par). He is not coloured by the company of anyone. And He is never coloured. Not even for a second. He alone teaches [us] to remain in swasthiti. So, all these people speak lies that this person went to the Brahmlok (Supreme Abode), that person went to swarglok (heaven). [You should say:] First of all, tell [us] where heaven is. They don’t even know where heaven and Brahmalok is. Then, how does the question of coming and going arise? When someone leaves his body he is born in this world itself. Yes, if someone has performed good actions, he will be born in a good family. If someone has performed actions of giving sorrow, he is born in a low class family. He gets a defected body. ... (to be continued.)
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