The absolute truth

[driedexbk]

Truth can never be attained by any path, religion, sect, or spiritual organization. These establishments become cages that only condition one to be dependent on them. They are a bonding crutch that prevents the individuals to grow into their own uniqueness or avert the discovery of one's own absolute truth. Why do we need to depend for our spirituality on someone else?

In everyone and everything there is the wholeness of life. We are as complete and as perfect as we can be at every moment in the drama. That wholeness that exists in each one of us cannot improve because it is absolute. Can anyone else play our role in the drama of life better than we can? Of course not! Even Raja Yoga teaches us that. Then, can we transcend this mist of abstraction about God?

For one to be free from the vicissitudes of life, or may we call it karma, we must continue to be self-recollected. Only then can we become fully conscious. Only then can we liberate our minds and our heart and be in harmony with the whole. This is what I call completeness ... the absolute truth ... this is what I call God.

[abrahma kumar]

Thank you, food for thought.

[zhuk]

we must continue to be self-recollected. Only then can we become fully conscious. Only then can we liberate our minds and our heart and be in harmony with the whole.

That's actually quite Zen, driedexbk :wink:

Kind of like some of the stuff I am reading now. Makes a whole lot more sense to me than the Brahma Kumaris ever did ... i could never see how preventing yourself from having certain 'heretical' thoughts re the BKs could ultimately bring any real peace of mind :roll:

[abrahma kumar]

Thanks Zhuk. I posted some additional thoughts on driedexbk's post over in my little corner of the forum. I was cautions about publicly stating that I found the post more helpful to my current stage than any Murli or bk stream of consciousness. I didnt want to upset anyone but I guess that I can no longer avoid the realisation that at this point in time I find the teachings of the BKWSU unacceptable. And yes I must feel a little guilty about that or else I would not have run to that place where I can feign invisibility in order to express myself in a little less restricted manner ;) Apologies.

I must be the most ignorant human on the planet because sometimes I find some of the discussions on the forum way beyond my tiny intellect. And that frustrates me a little because rather than draw me closer to God it just alienates me from seeking enlightenment (if enlightenment is wrapped up in some of those ideas). And no this is not a criticism of any of the posters or the knowledge that any individual has encountered.

It is as though if an ordinary person is never destined to KNOW God without depositing his credulity in some nether region only to awaken sometime after to discover that one has been well and truly brainwashed. Is God so arcane? Will human engagement with God always require a sort of elitist approach? If so I am tired of it.

[fluffy bunny]

It is as though if an ordinary person is never destined to KNOW God without depositing his credulity in some nether region only to awaken sometime after to discover that one has been well and truly brainwashed. Is God so arcane? Will human engagement with God always require a sort of elitist approach? If so I am tired of it.

As I probably number amongst the esotericists as well, my apologies ... it is understandable to be tired of it all and that may well be the most valid response.

Just out of interest, you too driedexbk, what was it that attracted to BK Raja Yoga is the first place?

It is not a leading question. My own position, as such, is that the populist approach that the BKWSU use all wrong and unfair on individuals coming into the machine. Teaching it, I used to see folks come in attracted by the "peace of mind" salespitch that were genuinely vulnerable and in need. The last thing on earth that they needed was all that Hindu hogwash and spirit channelling poured down their throats. However, I do think that all the Neo-BK Lite stuff is even worse as, in essence, it is deceptive. The same initiation, boths ocial and spiritual, is going on but the folks that are being hooked up have no idea of it.

In the old days, they used to ask students whether they were looking for Moksha or Jeevan Mukti, i.e. spiritual liberation or liberation in life. The Hindu Battalions would kind of teach the course accordingly. I actually do not know when the "Peace of Mind" stuff was introduced or what the history on that was. I would be interested to know. It never or was not what interested me but I think did others. I suppose it was the esotericism that I was looking for.

Truth can never be attained by any path, religion, sect, or spiritual organization. These establishments become cages that only condition one to be dependent on them. They are a bonding crutch that prevents the individuals to grow into their own uniqueness or avert the discovery of one's own absolute truth. Why do we need to depend for our spirituality on someone else?

Good first post. I appreciate it. Another soul going off to China to become a Toaist once the Copper Age kicks in! I'll see you there ... ;-). Welcome on board, Dried.

[abrahma kumar]

Before I answer this ex-I

Just out of interest, what was it that attracted to BK Raja Yoga is the first place?

I would like to say that i wasn't attacking anyone just really questioning myself aloud as to whether in my current stage i really ought to be posting here at all. Sometimes I talk out loud that way. Actually, I hope you don't mind me answering this more fully in my little corner ;) I have just re-read the extensive nature of my reply and i think that it is more appropriate over there. I can return and continue the general discussion here as drama dictates. Hope you will understand. Much soul love Ex-I.

[driedexbk]

Learning that if God was the purest energy I could ever imagine, it would not see anything wrong in me; thus, I did not have to feel compunctious of my weaknesses. The realization that I am comprised of that same pure energy inspired me to help in offering others the same experience. That is what attracted me to this organization.

However, this is not the same experience I got once I started to listen to Murlis. In these writings God (hmm????) negates itself. How could it speak of my weaknesses if it is pure? What would it know about impurities? No, I knew then it was not my kind of God, yet, I stayed because I developed great spiritual love for many of the brothers and sisters, and thereby, I decided to help in other matters.

[abrahma kumar]

Just out of interest, you too driedexbk, what was it that attracted to BK Raja Yoga is the first place?

I suppose it was the insight into the what until then had been a percieved but un-evidenced inclination that soul consciousness was the key to leading a more purpose-fulfilling life. But really I do not think that I was attracted per se to BK Raja Yoga. The 7-Day course seemed the most nautral thing in the world to do after the PT course because i think that I started to experience some of the practical benefits of meditation - as taught within the confines of the PT course - immediately. As I said over in my little space, I do not remember much about my interaction with the 7-day course at all. Maybe regression therapy would help because i obviously took on-board enough not to lose interest or maybe I am simply the kind that is easily led ;). Once I heard the Murli though I felt something special in the words and that attracted me to come once a week till I was able to make the morning class.

[proy]

However, this is not the same experience I got once I started to listen to Murlis. In these writings God (hmm????) negates itself. How could it speak of my weaknesses if it is pure? What would it know about impurities?

My experience was similar. The Murlis were held up in high regard as the answer to everything. The more of them I heard the more I realised that it could not be God speaking. God must be pure and loving, and therefore see me and everybody else as pure. The Murlis talk too much about, "This dirty world" for me to believe that I am listening to the words of God. Whose words are in the Murlis I am not sure. Maybe the deluded ramblings of an old man, maybe the chanelled words of a luciferic entity, maybe an egregore made up by the BKs?

[john]

To say the idea of God is incorrect in Murlis presupposes our own original notion of God or Godness to be correct, but where did that come from? Maybe God is hard to understand because of many previous notions thought or assumed to be correct.

My experience was similar. The Murlis were held up in high regard as the answer to everything.

But what is everything?

God must be pure and loving, and therefore see me and everybody else as pure.

But is that true? Is everyone pure? Should God be deluded and in turn delude us? If you went to a Doctor and he told you everything was OK, when it wasn't and you had contracted some fatal illness of which you could of been saved from if you were told earlier, what kind of Doctor would that be?

[proy]

To say the idea of God is incorrect in Murlis presupposes our own original notion of God or Godness to be correct, but where did that come from? Maybe God is hard to understand because of many previous notions thought or assumed to be correct.

I agree. God is hard to understand, and we do have a lot of pre-conceived ideas from our own background. To experience God is the only way, understanding does not work. That is the difference between "knowledge" and knowing.

But what is everything?

What I meant was that any problem I had while I was a BK was always answered by telling me to listen to tomorrow's Murli. Another idea I had as to what the real identity of Shiva could be is that he could be the planetary logos, similar to the god described by Alice Bailey and Mme Blavatsky.

Is everyone pure?

Yes, they definitely are.

[john]

driedexbk.

That is inspiring writing.

I think in essence You are seeing;
God -> absolute truth - >Our own interpretation. as
Our own interpretation -> absolute truth -> God

I consider myself consciously or subconsciously a mixture of both.

I agree. God is hard to understand, and we do have a lot of pre-conceived ideas from our own background. To experience God is the only way, understanding does not work. That is the difference between "knowledge" and knowing.

Yes, you are right. Logical intellectual understanding can only take us so far.

What I meant was that any problem I had while I was a BK was always answered by telling me to listen to tomorrow's Murli.

Well that's BKs for ya!

Yes, they definitely are.

I am not too sure what you mean here, yes in our original nature we may be pure, but surely something like violence is not pure?

[proy]

I am not too sure what you mean here, yes in our original nature we may be pure, but surely something like violence is not pure?

From the point of view of God it is all pure. In the Western Tradition the ultimate initiation on this plane of existence is to know that you yourself are God. This involves treading the fine line between the two major forces active in the universe. The Ahrimanic force and the Luciferic force. When you come to the culmination of this great adventure you will not want to do any violence. On the way to that apotheosis you will have done every bad thing, and also been the victim of every bad thing. Also every good thing so let's not get gloomy about it. If you were to take part in the ritual enactments of your path to apotheosis you would act out all of these things. That is how it was done in the past in the mystery schools, and still is for all I know. In modern times it is hardly necessary as we will feel these emotions all in one evening just by watching dramas on TV.

[john]

Proy

I can see how with your understanding of esoteric knowledge the BK knowledge/Murli would not completely satisfy your interest.

I think the BK Murlis are purposefully limited and specialist in spiritual content, by that I mean the whole spectrum of spritual knowledge. This I believe is to gain a strong focus, but is only the basics, yet strong basics are needed for the solid foundation of a spiritual path. I believe the expansion of knowledge is yet to come where all human enquiry and questions are satisfied.

What is real, what is imagination, what is important, what is just for fun, what is harmful. Finding true sprituality has been likened to finding a diamond in a rubbish tip.

[bansy]

Dear driedexBK,
Quite a few Zenny posts but its refreshing. Welcome to the forum.
Regards
Bansy