I get in or pull him out

[joel]

What if ... You are a BK teacher and play in a rockband ...??? I think its OK. What does BK organisation. see abouth that? Any experience anyone?

I heard Dr. Nirmala, head of BK'dom in Australia, New Zealand and East Asia saying "music is Maya", Maya being anything that involves the person in pursuits other than those recognized by the BKs as meaningful or valuable. I, for one, found the entertaining self-teasing songs by Michael Cycle (his nickname) to be funny. He is an Aussie professional composer who worked his magic to create such comedic jewels as this 20's themed "My Baba" and the rock-and-roll classic "Ka, Ka, Karmateet."

Playing one of these songs during a meditation would generally trigger uncontrollable guffaws, at least among the English-speaking meditators. Certain Enya songs also made it into the playlists in the centers I inhabitated.

The practice of BK meditation has been much changed by the introduction of recorded music, which is generally played at intervals of 15 or 30 minutes.

[jannisder]

So if you sing "my, my Baba", its OK. What about the other band friends on beers and blows?

[joel]

So if you sing "my my Baba" its OK. What about the other band friends on beers and blows?

May be necessary for their livelihood, but the BK musicians should not get attached to it, and certainly should try to avoid the negative vibes that might otherwise influence them to drink, screw, snort, etc. Very bad to be working nights, when the vibes are so impure.

One of my favorite philosopher ex-BK friends pointed out that sexual vibrations are at their maximum right around Amrit Vela (4am) when BKs are sitting in meditation with their spiritual fronds unrolled.

[jannisder]

:lol: Negative vibes? A man blooming of joy is that negative? This is who he is! Not the toxicated man on my coffee table after his morning class.

[joel]

Negative vibes? A man blooming of joy is that negative? This is who he is! Not the toxicated man on my coffee table after his morning class.

Sorry, 'negative vibes' from the BK view. Any happiness that doesn't come from religious ecstasy is negative from their perspective (as I see it.) And sorry to hear he comes back looking traumatized/toxified after morning class. It's very heavy to be trying amputate certain parts of ourselves (like our heart) to conform to a spiritual ideal. Not all, but for many BKs, that kind of suppression cuts very deep, and I think accounts for some of the bitterness among ex-BKs toward the group: feeling that the BKs are responsible for their years of self-suppression, causing, supporting and perpetuating it. The death of the self! Ironic since it is fear of the death of the self that motivates BKs to renounce the "old world" and its joys, lasting and fleeting.

[jannisder]

BKWSU ... (the men in film are not BKs, of course). They talk and talk but then you find out what it realy is ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5H1IXVL_YM

Sorry, cannot help it :lol:

[fluffy bunny]

What if ... You are a BK teacher and play in a rockband ...??? I think its OK. What does BK organisation. see abouth that? Any experience anyone?

Jannisder,

what you do not realise about the Brahmakumari path yet is ... that what "you think" is of absolutely no value or interest to them.

As with what joel states of music in general, what you think is just Maya. At best illusion, at worst evil to distract yourself and others from "the path". My answer to your question would be, "it depends if you are famous on not".

• If you are talented and famous, then they will use you.
  If you are not, and are aspiring, then they will disuade you because one should only aspire to Baba and following them.

Even to practise your instruments is wasting precious time you could be serving the BK organization with. To want to be a musician is looked down on because the life is unreliable and not well paid. They prefer BKs to be safe little 9 to 5 accountants, menial bureacratics and professionals.

To a degree, this is a caste ridden attitude from India where musicians were general of a low caste. They advise low stress (low paid) regular jobs to leave the mind free to remember Baba and do lots of service. They did not advise striving to raises one's standards in this society, make material gains, invest in pensions etc, because it is all going to be destroyed very shortly. May be they have changed this.

How are you getting on with your man ... or your classes?

[jannisder]

Hi Ex-I,

Thanks for your words, I know that anything I think is not OK because "normal" people can not think ... as the BKWSU said, or something like it. I did the 7 day course and the second following course, so i must be brainwashed now. My friend?

With my friend it is not going any better. I feel he is slipping away ... Maybe its me but I feel so not interesting or special to him. He is warm to me but so far away ... I cannot connect. I feel hurt and lost most of the time and very lonely. I have been sending emails to almost everything involved with BK, as a warning, to get it off my chest.

The BKWSU send an email right back to me asking if the email address was right, after two minutes I got one from them that my email has been blocked ...

Funny ... they are getting aware!!!! I am so mad and I don't care if they come after me. They took one part of my life, my loved one, they might as well take the other part also. See that's how stupid I am thinking right now, so I am not OK. I hope it will go better tomorrow after I tell him off after a small incident ... him being completely on earth one minute, and the next minute an white-winged angelic wanna be ... wanting to be detached and **** ... !!! And bringing me sorrow.

Love, Jan

[jannisder]

BKWSU is not a religion and they do not do devotion, that's what i heard him see today ...

Well, that one is new to me ... Any explanation from anyone.?

[joel]

BKWSU is not a religion and they do not do devotion, that's what I heard him see today ... Well, that one is new to me ... Any exlpanation from anyone.?

The BKWSU does consider itself enough of a religion to have registered with the UN as a religious NGO and for Dadi Prakashmani (Kumarka) to have attended the National Hindu Congress in India. Scientology tells its new recruits that Scientology is not a religion. But for tax purposes, it is a religion. Religions have faith-based beliefs and rituals. BKs say they have knowledge, not blind faith. And they say they don't have rituals.

If it were knowledge, like the knowledge of how to use fire to refine gold, all of us who tried to burn our sins in the fire of Yoga for so many years would be gold by now. If it was the biggest spiritual secret ever revealed to Womynkind, then BKs should be dramatically more charismatic than other people, and their methods more successful than others. The world would be beating a pathway to their door.

No, the BKs knowledge is not magically effective. Yes, it is faith. Faith about the identity of the self and the identity of God. It is religious faith. There are rituals of offering food. Maybe simpler than other religion's rituals, but a ritual. Rising early for meditation is a ritual. Restrictions on diet and cleanliness beyond those needed for health are ritualistic.

BKs say they are different than other religions in not having a human guru. But the BKs do follow human guides. It is an organization of people, with some more active as leaders. But okay, that is all definitions. If not a religion, I think we can say that the BKs are a cult. Look around here or elsewhere on the web for identifying characteristics of cults. BKs have much in common: belief in imminent world destruction, belief in sole possession of esoteric knowledge of salvation ...

Okay, don't argue that. Here's what I might say. "Their beliefs and influences stand between intimacy between you and I right now. If you did not have any of those beliefs, what would you want to do in your life? What would be your dreams for yourself, for your relationships? How close would you want to be with me?"

Note: I've been posting a bit too much lately, missing out on some other responsibilities/opportunities. I am definitely not an enlightened master, except inasmuch as we all are in certain ways. Good luck to you.

Bye for now.

[proy]

BKWSU is not a religion and they do not do devotion, that's what I heard him say today ... Well, that one is new to me ...Any explanation from anyone.?

They do a lot of devotion (Bhakti in Hindi) but they never admit it, even to themselves. Every Thursday morning they have a ceremony at the centre where they offer food (called Bhog) to their BB. The food goes in special bowls, on a special tray, covered with a special cloth. These bowls are even washed with a special washing up sponge called "Baba's sponge" and dried with a special tea towel, which is Baba's towel. There is a spoon which is kept for putting the food in the bowls, this too is Baba's spoon. None of these things, the spoon, the sponge, or the towel, are allowed to be used for anything else.

It is similar to the Krishna ritual of feeding the God Krishna in Hinduism. The Buddhists have a similar ritual also, which they call "Puja", which means offering the food to God, or Lord Buddha. The food sits on a table in front of the Sister in Charge or another sister, together with a candle, flowers, and a picture of BB. There is then a "meditation" when the sister goes into trance and "Flies" with BB. They say BB comes in his subtle body at that time and is able to smell the aroma of the food and it gives him pleasure.

The sister will then tell a story of the journey and communication she had with BB while in trance. This is only one of the devotional ceremonies, There are many more, too many to mention here, but it happens every week in every centre. I have been to this ceremony many times in recent years. They will still be doing it at your local centre every Thursday.

Briefly, another common devotional ritual is to stare at a huge picture of BB and, "Get lost in Baba's eyes." To say they are not a religion is just playing with words.

[jannisder]

Thanks Proy,

I also call it a religion and they do devotion. I have seen Baba's room to. If that is not devotion ... i am Queen of England.

[abrahma kumar]

Hi all, I will say more at length but in a way i think that we can all understand why a BK may instinctively shy away from the 'religion tag' when they are assessing their beliefs, practices and the 'special nature of their clan'. Having said that there is no doubt that it IS a religion . Baba himself says it in the Murli time and time again. I do not need to provide evidence of this nor debate about it. There's is a religion of non-violence. It is the Deity Religion that gets established by Shiv Baba. Non Violence is the religion of the Deities.

In one Murli I remember it being said that the Golden Age is the age in which leadership on the basis of the perfect balance between Religion and Politics is provided. The Golden Age kingdom is said to be run under a system of Religio-Politics. There is more that we can dig up from the Murli so to my mind without doubt it is a religion.

However what some students may shun away from when that label is thrown our way is the 'Bhakti' baggage associated with the word religion. We are so desperate to leave behind us that "calling out"; that "worship with no aim and objective"; that "ignorance" because we have found the One who comes at the time when religion becomes irreligious. To do what? Establish the Deity Religion! Is my churning wide of the mark! Tough cookie to swallow perhaps but it is definitely a religion. The systems that the organisation puts in place attempt to obscure that fact - either wittingly or unwittingly.

Additionally, our struggle to find a comfortable way to explore the word 'religion' may be because we can not look around us in today's world and see many fine examples of humans LIVING their religion in ALL that they do. From BK teachings one could develop the understanding that living righteously (religiously?) is not something that you do one day per week or on special days but religiousity emnates from every single thing you stand for. Every breath in rememberance of One. is not that a religion? Would like to hear what others say.

And doesn't this dovetail nicely into the issue of the prominence of Brahma Baba's picture in the BKWSU centres. Sometimes I think that the BKWSU has a habit of dressing things up so that they don't appear to be what they actually are. Guys, I wonder whether Jannisder experiences reveal to us the possibility that the quality of teaching and churning at the centre her friend goes too is not really providing the students with clarity and spiritual insights. A matter of teacher training in the BKWSU perhaps? maybe things have stagnated a bit in his Baba's Centre and Jannisder is Baba's instrument to reinvigorate the place ;) Our Brother will benefit.

One other thing Jannisder, please remind your friend that Baba says many, many times in the Murli that in many centres the students are 'more clever' than the teachers. Very very important to take this onboard - not with ego - but in a way that gives regard to the numberwise 'clarity of intellect' that each student/teacher possess. He needs to start churning his own ingredients.

(Apologies i did not intend for it to be this long. Hope it helps a little)

AbeK

[alladin]

"BKWSU has a habit of dressing things up so that they don't appear to be what they actually are."

A very bad habit indeed. And this is why they find it legitimate to be obsessed with the perversion of forcing people to wear uniforms and adopt standardized looks. Thanks brothers. Bravo! We don't want to make the list longer and bring up more evidence that BK is a cult, because we are through with it, we HAD IT!

Another cute ritual: SS pouring nectar into your mouth. What an emotion! Kneel down, turn your chin up, at the same time take drishti, and do it right, otherwise it'll spill all over your white clothes! The consecrated host!

Jannis, I have a vision of your friend wearing a full set of armour, shield and helmet on. I think only God's love will be able to melt all that metal . He's in a defensive stand. Who dare attack his religion? Like a crusader. He sees you and us as infidels. Remain light about it all!! Love .

[proy]

There is more that we can dig up from the Murli so to my mind without doubt it is a religion.

Yes. I remember something in the Murlis referring to the "Brahmin Religion" also that all religions will be destroyed, including the "Brahmin Religion". If you don't know, Newcomers, the BKs refer to themselves as "Brahmins". Nothing to do with Hinduism or the caste system of course. Oh, no, no ,no, they will never admit that to you.:wink:

Another cute ritual: SS pouring nectar into your mouth. What an emotion! Kneel down, turn your chin up, at the same time take drishti, and do it right, otherwise it'll spill all over your white clothes! The consecrated host!

Yes. That one is Thursday mornings too, I did not get around to mentioning the sweet water communion devotion ceremony.