I get in or pull him out

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abrahma kumar
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Post by abrahma kumar »

So why do we shy away from the religion tag? Is it a consequence of the programming? Protesting on behalf of the Mothership BKWSU? Does God in anyway get defamed if i say that the lifestyle i aspire to is a religious one? Is there a commercial reason why the BKWSU does not present itself to its students as religious organisation?

I am laughing. Every now and then in my posts I refer to a person with an overactive imagination who has crazy ideas about the BKWSU get upside inna his head :P. Today he is wondering whether breaking the programming that fixes the BKWSU in his consciousness as being more elevated than all religions, will see him realising that he is merely a follower.
  • Rise, Oh you mighty peple.
    Wouldn't the realisation break an awful lot?
    Put your dreams to reality now.
    All together now ... Wake up, We're feeling wake up.
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abrahma kumar
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Post by abrahma kumar »

On another topic someone wrote this
It's funny how quickly BKs learn how to become good lawyers for the BK organization, even without being informed or experienced enough. Congratulations! Good training and conditioning! Even a new student becomes an attorney for the org. But by lokik laws, a lawyer is not entitled to defend his family ... so??

To my experience this sharing of alladin's illustrates in a nutshell the subtle conditioning that prompts students of the BKWSU to defend the Mothership. It was what I was alluding to in the post above.

So Jannisder can see that her friend's inability to yet see the BKWSU as a religious body is exactly the sort of condition the BKWSU wants its students to remain in.
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Post by paulkershaw »

HI Jannisder, Di & Katie

I've been reading through all these threads and I feel the need to share with you that you have something wonderful happening to you despite the circumstances and the challenges! You're all seeing, drawing on and acknowledging your own strength and courage and it seems to me that you're growing in your own spirituality day by day, so keep it up because this is your own truth you're working with now.

Would it be OK to say to you that you're learning to love yourselves and therefore learning what true love really is? I honour your commitment to yourselves and wish you much love, light and gifts of subtle support, honest and intention. :)

XX P XX
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Post by jannisder »

Yes Abrahma,

And after our little emotional chat today during our lunch together, as in downhill on the roller coaster, he said that we on the forum are all wrong. He will not step out the organisation because he will not be able to give Raja Yoga anymore(?).

Being with me is his business, and whatever the organisation does is not his business. And he doesn't care. What they do or say at centres all over the world is not his problem. I told him to come on the forum for we can learn from him then if we all don't understand the knowledge in his opinion.

For him to come to this forum and talk to us is just a waste of time, and what we do is just the drama. It has to happen, so be it! We misinterpretate the Murli and i should not read it but come to the centre to listen. I told him that that is just what they want me to do, to get me in. That is not true he said, he wants me to hear the truth and the right interpretation share it with me so i can be ... like him?

To be detached is all he wants, but that is hard he said. He is not all detached yet. Purity is what he wants and is the only way to live. After his last relationship, it took him 8 mounts to get back his power, so he said. That is Maya, taking his power. I am not Maya to him! He got me into tears again and felt bad about it, he said he was sorry to give me sorrow.

Why is he still so dXXXX nice to me if he wants to be detached, seeing that over and over again, that i misinterpretate, talk on the forum and giving him all this problem talk at lunch?

So downhill again.
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Post by abrahma kumar »

Actually this situation has now become quite clear to me. Jannisder, yourself and that brother and the BKWSU seem to have deep karmic accounts. I was writing a whole stream of consciousness but actually it is no point. If the analysis, words and attitude as described by you are all accurate then seems like an even more interesting situ.

Jannisder, many experienced BKs will try to explain about karma and drama, however I do not want to say anymore on this thread for a while. But before I go one thing: Jannisder, YOU HAVE THE RIGHT AND THE AUTHORITY TO DO WHAT YOU WANT WITH YOUR LIFE. When all is said and done he is Baba's child and so are we. That's what they teach.

Om Shanti
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Post by mr green »

He will be taking advice at the centre, trust me on this, an 'effort making student' will take advice from their senior about such matters.

They will be steering him and checking on him a lot. There is a phrase used by the insiders, they say "he is starting to wobble!" It means Maya is tempting him. They will be well aware of this. The sisters especially use the trick of establishing eye contact before asking very personal questions. This way they can easily gauge (mmmm) :lol: where he's at.

If they feel he is wobbling, they will have Yoga for him and have regular chats with him. So his belief will be strenghened and also they will advise him on what and how to say things ... it's not just his thoughts and issues you are up against. It is the people at his centre too.

If only you did not care about him, I would say just boot him and find a real man (ahem).

All the best
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Post by di »

Mr Green, your advertising! Ex-i and Bansy do that for you really well. You're going to end up with so many women you wont cope. What will you do? :D
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Post by joel »

di wrote:Mr Green, your advertising! Ex-I and Bansy do that for you really well. You're going to end up with so many women you wont cope. What will you do? :D
It will be difficult, but he will manage some how, with God's help.
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discrimination power

Post by alladin »

Mr. Green, he couldn't possibly leave the Forum as we all love him! The appearance (his avatar) is scary but we are subtle enough to know his heart is good. In other cases, such as at centers, the appearance is clean and harmless but the behaviour betrays them
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Post by jannisder »

The SS at the centre is the most sweet person i have ever met. (Maybe even see me as the new SS). There are not many here. I wonder if she knows what is going on. i believe not. Oh boy, i even start acting like a SS ... "don't be kissing all those women. They are sisters". He said, "so i am jealous?" YES, I AM ... so it is me ... i am the one with the problem. But show me if am i any special to you??? Guess not!! And as Abrahma's post
1. The BKWSU's IDEAL male/female couple would be a unit in which BOTH man and woman were FULLY committed to living the BKWSU lifestyle.
OK ... i believe i have to do this. I get in or pull him out ... My dear beloved friends i have to get in ... to really see what it is all about. Be good. Love you all and i won't be a stranger. I have some questions left about attachement. What am i really to him, just a soul that needs to be saved, or just me, fun to be with, a beloved friend, warmth, a home ... whatever.

WHAT AND WHOM AM I TO HIM?
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Post by di »

Darling Jan,

what's the center's address so I can write and congratulate them on another recruit? Sweetie, all I ask is you get some advice from an independent 3rd party, tell them what is going on before you go in there and look at some counselling to give you a very clear view on what you are attempting. Proy and his wife were married, with a history. Probably with a family. A history prior to BK. An incredibly strong bond. You don't have a history with this man and not exchanged any vows.

What concerns me is this man has told you and shown you in no uncertain terms that he does not want a relationship with you. He has already told you what you are to him. Are you respecting his wishes or trying to force what you want onto him?????? Think carefully my friend. Of course, the SS knows what is going on. (Amazing, everytime I see SS, I think of Hitler). Don't you think she is promoting it? Remember, too much sugar can make you very ill. Anyways, I am sweeter than her, just ask me. He is doing an excellent job of 'service'. Almost got another one in.

I know you think you are in control, just as my man kept telling me. I know my thinking was very screwed up, a lot clearer now. Now I am thinking more rationally than EMOTIONALLY. Listen to what the very experienced, long timers here are telling you. Go after Mr Green instead (he has the most incredible eyes). A the moment mine has stopped going to the center and is trying to get more involved with life here at home. We will see what happens from now on.

I will not put up with any more cr**. Seriously Jan, I hope I am not sounding mean and horrible, but I do care. They don't. You cannot make him love you this way. It has to be freely given, and he does not want to give it. He is already married, and by you being the mistress it is not going to work. They don't leave their wives for the mistresses. They have to get divorced first, then they are free to have a relationship. I think you are playing into their hands. Take care please, seek some advice first, please. You cannot make someone see who does not want to. He is happy how he is and doesn't see a problem with it.

Until he sees there is a problem with what he is doing you have no hope. Neither can you make him see the problem. You could chop your head of and put it on a pole, and he couldn't see it. The only thing you can do is give him a choice. BKs or you. It works. You just might not get the answer you want. Just be prepared to take that choice. I did, and so have many others. Read between the lines of what has been said to you. Sorry to be so blunt. I took the chance of losing my family as I know it and losing my partner in life, but it was the only way of saving myself and what was happening. I think you know the answer if you put the ultimatum to him, don't you? That's why you don't want to ask it.

It takes 2 people to make a relationship. You only appear to have 1. He only wants to play and enjoys your attention and company. He is in love with the BKs. I am so sorry Jan. I think it would be one of the biggest mistake in life to make. Even bigger than falling in love with a practising BK.
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Re: discrimination power

Post by joel »

alladin wrote:Mr. Green, he couldn't possibly leave the Forum as we all love him!The appearance ( his avatar) is scary, but we are subtle enough to know his heart is good. In other cases, such as at centers, the appearance is clean and harmless, but the behaviour betrays them
Let me say that I find Mr. Green to be among the most popular, mercurial and sartorial Yang snag members here. I think we can all agree on this, regardless of denomination. To be mercury is good, and the only problem is that we do not realze that we turning into gold. We may hate ourselves, yet we are really turning into gold. It is sad that our family and friends should see it in us, and we not see it in ourselves.

There is a huge lifework craft art and science of learning to give things to yourselves, to oneself, myself. Those who are manic give themselves the advantage of more quantity of life experiences. Activity serving to build the system. It is our movements that oil our joints in ways that allow us to take advantage of the glucose flowing to our muscles and springiness of our limbs, rebounding from gravitation confrontation with the earth, twisted in graceful arching highjump.

I have to start talking about it here. I made a change to the Wikipedia website introductory paragraph. Okay another post. I think all posters of all denominations will agree, that if there is ever an ex-BK international inculcation convention, Mr. Green would be among the charismatic presences.

Funny subject, hardly anyone has broached the subject, "How was it teaching BK knowledge to others. That was our life, right, giving knowledge to others. That was what I lived for. Bizzare. Just like Jehovah's Witnesses, those nice people, yet the underlying unpleasantness that they simply see you as differently that themselves.

So, I occasionally gets some positive comments from one our another of you
about something I've written, and then ... somehow I deny myself that and start to think that my writing is terrible. Recycling the material, like tired old Avyakt BapDada. How does he feel, seeing the decay of his organization? The fact the he wasn't god, does not have full spiritual knowledge, thought he did. Can see as heavy metals build up in landfills that the Earth is different than before. Since petroleum began running the world

I've been giving myself hell because of spending time online writing, but what is that? A communicating activity. Actually you've been talking to them for a long time that you are friends, feel like friends.

So yes, I would definitely, I would definitely want to meet other ex-BKs I've been talking with here. I doubt that differences would result in fisticuffs. The variety of unguarded company. Of course, it is quite revealing to be with others, and not always pleasant, yet if we're not arguing over money, you would think we would have the crazy energy to dance, do puppet theater, mad manic creative life art in compressed party on some sea coast somewhere.

So coming back, how is it that we deny ourselves, and how are we able to give to ourselves? To allow ourselves to like ourselves as much as our friends and family like us, those we are on good terms at least.

How can we feel how we hold ourselves back in situation after situation, recorded in the very postural patterns through which we remember and remind ourselves who we are. That is what happens in the meditation, you associate postural sensations -- because what situation are you in?? Sitting posture. It's not an accident that meditation is seated. God Shiva came into Brahma, and then to retrieve that sensation, he would sit in meditation. He wouldn't be lost in the accounts of his business. He did not think God inhabited the accounts as much as, say the Subtle Region, perhaps of the Caballah, its pre-occupation with The Word.

Well, I disagree with Brahma, there is no reason for a seated posture to live a fulfilled life. Period. Some people, who live in the desert with no chairs, spend most of their time when they're not walking squatting on the ground. That was the posture used to show degrading images of American Indians. Uncivilized, squatting around a smoky fire.

An that's is not as good as our convenient petroleum fires? We're an improvement?? Many of our cars are clean. We like them clean, it conceals the realty that they are very dirty, very very much more dirty than anything before, except maybe digging in mines for gold and mercury, burning poisonous smelting fires, like in the story of Bar Abbas by Par Lagerkvist, which is a guite revealing acccount of religious faith and religious experience. I believe he received a Nobel Prize in literature for that work.

I am often down on schools, their conformance, fixed schedules. Yet it was a school teacher who introduced me to this story, and I think anyone wanting to understand religious experience, hypnosis, trance should read it.

So what is it? Postures and activities during rituals, combined with logos, the power of words to evoke emotions, dopamine discharge. Repeating these patterns, so that a kind of learning takes place, a rewiring of our rewards system. The Mind Control video is arresting because they remind us that our rewards system can easily by manipulated, rewired, trained and ordered to murder.

It is simply a combination of neuromuscularskeletal movmenets of the same type we spend our whole lives, perhaps we have even trained recreationally with guns before. Understand how to sight, to settle and to squeeze. Gently. "It takes 22 muscles to smile, but just four to squeeze a trigger." -- Internet tagline. So that our reward system can be easily readily rewired. It does when a woman has a child. Those who love the child rewire their reward systems to have mutual pleasure with each other. Lovers rewire their reward systems to each other.

Our reward systems are extremely malleable. They are like mercury, mercurial, frictionless. They keep us in bed until noon. In low-stage depression. A child with no sense of play, free to create games, he sits by himself. A sad meditation, recycling of previous sad experiences, the hurt flowing through him like bitter vinegar. Anger that can throw acid, or dispassion that can pull a trigger.

That is the anger that BB feared. Maybe he did not know people become depressed, or while able to draw them out by his own charisma and enthusiasm for life did not understand the necessary for a committed in exploration to reveal and heal the hurts that have continued till they become unconscious, embedded in the set of our jaw, the tension in our eyes and lips, the preparing of the limbs to run, to strike, roll into a fetal position.

I never thought about the 'limitations of spooks' theory, but that's what they say. The spook has these powers, and can channel knowledge, and can call themselves anything, but don't necessariy know things. So Shiva/Brahma definitely does not appreciate that the the heavy metals and chemicals in our environment today have never been here before, and life continues to evolve in response. The disturbance to the oceanic food web of losing all the top level predators, sharks, whales, game fish.

He had his insights. Those regarding the cycle died withthe brain of Brahma, although not bfore replicating in 900,000 brains of all of us. The conditions of today can never repeat. That is what is so mysterious about life, each situation is different. And will be different. That was a mistake or a technique of 'the spook'. Now matters because now is all we have. 'Everything is fixed' is fatalistic, and therefore surrendering one's power.

Said another way, it could be equivalent to the Sobriety Prayer, let me change the thigns I can, accept what I cannot change, and be wise to the difference.

So why is it so pathological? Because of the identity. We are those same ones from 5000 years ago, we have been together time after time. This is creating an artificial family through religious enthusiasm, the same re-wiring of the pleasure system that hapens in a football or rugby game. Our pleasure system connecting with the life of the game, with the life of the factory, life of the city, life of the nation, falling into sync with many other nervous systems to run the cars, buses, factories, hospitals, prisons, create the lives of ourselves as individuals, yet our pleasure systems malleable, our hearts vulnerable, beliefs changeable.

http://en.wikipedia.org/Rat_Park

Much of what government and industry do is to influence belief. It is astonishingly easy to do. As easy as asking a person to write a paragraph (for the sake of research experiment, pay $20) on the side opposite their normal point of view. Many of those research subjects had adopted the new view as their own when tested some months later.

We are turning to gold, and gold can be worked and renewed, applied to a thousand different purposes. Gold may not be able to hug, but it can decorate those who are to embrace.
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Post by di »

Sorry to keep butting in, but I have to say this.

Are you prepare to risk loosing your free thinking, your mind, most importantly your soul for someone who does not want a relationship in the way you want. Are you prepared to be no. 2 for the rest of your life? You know for a fact you cannot go in and come out undamaged. I wasn't. It is why I said he had to make a choice. You deserve better. Please re-read the posts on mind control and the psyhic aspects. You are not immune.

I am sorry if I what I say hurts. I don't want to hurt you. I really believe it is the TRUTH no matter how hard it is. If anyone disagrees with me, please say so.
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Post by jannisder »

Do not worry, it will be OK. My mind is not to be brainwashed at any time at all. Have some faith in me. To get him out from my home is not done, so i have to get more near ... As i know him and his life story he does not belong there.

He trust me and i have to do just anything to wake him up. Also for his children not knowing what daddy is up to. Me, myself and i ... are not important. I have noting to lose anyway. Only him ... well, i'll get over that. As i did before.
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Post by joel »

jannisder wrote:As I know him and his life story he does not belong there. He trust me and I have to do just anything to wake him up. Also for his children not knowing what daddy is up to. Me, myself and I ... are not important. I have noting to loose anyway, only him ... well I'll get over that. As I did before.
That was your idea from the beginning so more power to you. You might be a law-maker, strong in a way that your time in the BK environment comforms to who you are, you feeling and being yourself in a way that enlivens them as well.

ex-l notes that it will be one of you, one of him, and a lot of them. There can be very nice ones who have faith. They are complete people, emotionally rich who simply accept the BK life and are happy with it. Some do not play fair at all.
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