I get in or pull him out

[jannisder]

I have to get in to be able to keep our conversation going. If this soul is not getting into BK, he will probably ignore me and the door will be closed for good. With all opportunity for him to take away my doubts, that is also a possibility, but there are some things that he must know. This forum for instance, the bad publicity about BK, and so on.

But I have to be careful ... he is a happy BK, but not knowing what else is going on. It is not my intention to get him all mixed up or hurt him in any way and so I shall be very careful. Someone has to show him and be there for him if he might fall. I shall be a good soul-concious being, even more dedicated to God but with one eye on him.

If that makes me Maya to him ... so be it. I hope this makes any sense to you.

[jannisder]

BapDada gives you double foreigners the title “double intense effort makers” because your speciality is that you do whatever you think - whether it is right or wrong! You have the courage to do something. Therefore use this courage in your spiritual effort and in service. It is possible that the sound will first of all emerge from abroad to awaken India. You have the sanskar of determination, and can claim a number ahead of those from India.

[bansy]

Hope you don't mind me asking but how long has he been a BK, and for how long have you known each other. Maybe this will help us understand the time has been spent.

Thanks

[jannisder]

We have spent time together everyday for the last 6 months.

He is a BK for 6 years

[arjun]

Only with tears in my eyes I can reed all the reply.
How can BK God Shiva forbid love while he seems to be love. ... and tell me that I am the devil / Maya to my friend because I love him with all my heart. What will Shiva's punishment be to me for loving? Not that I am afraid of that ... i will survive because my God shall be there never punishing me for anything! Thank you for helping me out!!

Sister Jannisder,

Om Shanti and welcome to the forum.

God Shiv has not forbidden the BKs/PBKs from loving fellow BKs/PBKs/non-BKs/ex-BKs. But He says that the love should not be focussed on one person. That becomes attachment. When we know that this body is temporary, we are only actors in this world, playing one role in one birth and playing another role in another birth. It is not necessary that the person whom we love in one birth may become our companion in the next birth. Selfless love for everyone without any bodyconsciousness is not prohibited for the BKs/PBKs by God Shiv. I quote some lines spoken by Avyakt BapDada to Kumars (unmarried male BKs/PBKs):

"If the Kumar’s are obstacle free Kumar’s then such Kumar’s are praised as very great persons, because people of the world also feel for Kumar’s instead of kumaris that it’s difficult that Kumar’s become eligible. Kumar’s can get a higher number (rank) than kumaris, but the Kumar’s should be obstacles free, because mostly Kumar’s face an obstacle that they do not have a companion. We want a companion. So by some way or the other they make their company. Company creates the thought of making a companion. First, people come into a company, then they talk to each other, sit with each other, then they create a thought of making a companion. But there are such Kumar’s also who neither make any company nor any companion except one Father. The Kumar’s who always like in the company of Father are always happy. If the entire family is companion then it’s OK. But if the company of two, three or any one is required then it’s wrong. Finally you have to make the world bow before yourself and before the Father." [Avyakt Vani dated 27/11/89, published by the BKs; translation done by a PBK]

As regards punishment, God Shiv does not punish anyone. We are responsible for our own thoughts, speech and action. If we perform any actions under the influence of bodyconsciousness we accrue sins, which have to be cleared in this Confluence Age either through the remembrance of the ever-pure Shiv and by imbibing divine virtues.

Regards,
On Godly service,
Arjun

[abrahma kumar]

Om Shanti

Thank you Arjun Bhai for your post including quote from Avyakt BapDada's Murli.

Jannisder, did you post that direct quote from the Murli? As the thread develops you have not yet had a chance to respond to:

how long has he been a BK, and for how long have you known each other. Maybe this will help us understand the time has been spent.

... in the meantime I will go and meditate in Abrahma Kumar's BrahmaKumaris.Info cyber refuge :P

Om Shanti

[mitra]

:) For me there is one Shiv Baba nothing else. All other relations are meant to do service only . Because you cannot do the service alone. You need others help also.

IBHS
MITRA

[abrahma kumar]

Thank you Mitra you have stated your position emphatically. Om Shanti

[proy]

How can BK God Shiva forbid love while he seems to be love ...

Hi Jannisder,

BK God Shiva is not love, not in the sense that you mean it. Are you a Christian? Perhaps you are confusing Shiva with Jesus or Jehovah?

BK God Shiva did not create the world and has no power over the world drama, which is a perpetually repeating identical cycle. This is all stated clearly in the Murlis. Shiva in Hinduism is the destroyer. The BKs have a different take on him, but he still comes at the time of the destruction of the world. He is here to love you, maybe. He wants you to love Him, definitely. He does not sanction or approve of love between people in the manner you are talking about - soulmates, or twin souls. He is here to destroy those connections. It is clearly said in the Murlis to NOT have Yoga with brothers and sisters, only with Shiva.

I will repeat to you a story which was told to me when I was with a group of western BKs in Madhuban, the Headquarters of the BKs in India. The story was told with great pride by one of the most senior brothers of the BKs, if I remember right it was Bro. Nirwair. Remember he told this story with pride in the sacrifice that was being enforced and made.

The story goes - in the time when BB (Dada Lehkraj) was alive there were two surrendered sisters living with him who had, over many years, formed a strong friendship and "attachment" for each other. BB told one of the sisters to pack her bags and get ready to go to do service in a far off place. The other sister assumed that she was going with her friend, so she also packed her bags and stood waiting for the transport. BB saw them and said to the second sister, "Why are you here? Why are your bags packed? You are not going anywhere, you are staying here with me." The second sister broke down in tears and had to watch her friend go away on the transport. She never saw her friend again. She had to be satisfied and proud of her sacrifice. I am sure many BKs and ex-BKs will have heard this story told with great pride in the sacrifices that are expected and gone through with.

Do not follow him in to try to get him out! Once they have you they will separate you, be sure of it. Better to lose him now than go through all the bullying and suffering you will have to endure if you go in. There is another thing. You will see from what I have written above that BKs do not see things in the same way that you or I might see them. For BKs, it is a matter of pride to make a plot or device to separate two friends, they see it as being a service to their God. You are not supposed to love people, only God.

This they will also use in reverse. They will see that you are attracted to this man and they will use that to draw you into becoming a BK. Then they will separate you. I have seen this happen personally. The BKs will see the sexual attraction or the friendship and use it to reel you in like a fish on a hook. Then they will have you and brainwash you into thinking as they do. They see nothing wrong in this. They think that they are helping you to "Come to Baba." They do not think in the ordinary worldly way. The end justifies the means. If they can use this attraction you have for this man they will use it, and the tears you are shedding now will be nothing compared to the suffering you will come to endure in the future.

If this man loved you he would leave the BKs for you. He can not love both you and the BKs and their God. It is not allowed. Unless he is a hypocrite and a liar he will have to choose. You or the BKs. Please, please, don't follow him in, it will be a disaster. I know you love him, I know it is sad and difficult. Believe me I have seen very many similar events. The only way to have a good outcome is if he loves you enough to leave the BKs for you or if you love him enough for you to release him and let him go his own way.

If there is anything you wish to discuss in private then send me a private message. I have direct personal experience of your situation and I can and will help. You may have to face a difficult truth, but there may be a way around it. Actually, I will tell you this much, my wife followed me in and she got me out, but she is a very strong lady and she had a game plan from the start. She is skilled and has had decades of training in psychology. Also we had been together for eleven years, which is very different from the six months you have known this man. I was only in for one year, this man has been in for six years. It could well be that he has an agenda to get you in, and that his real intention is to make you into a bk, not a friend or a soulmate. Have you thought of that?

From his point of view as a BK it would not be deception, it would be helping you by transforming your sanskara of attachment to him into love of the BK God. Maybe he does not love you in the way that you think he does at all. If you really feel you are up to this then let me know. I will help you either way, if you decide to go in or stay out.

[abrahma kumar]

Jannisder, I trust that all has been well since your last post. On reading the continued posts on this thread a few observations come to my mind. But first you ought to know that i am really waiting to see if you will be able to share with us the answer to a few practical questions asked by bansy and echoed by at least one other poster. Why am i waiting? Because this thread was started by you. You were open enough to come and share with us.

To this soul's mind those questions are pertinent ones and the feeing is that till you respond - if you care to respond - it is rude to for us to carry on quoting Murli points and waving the cloth of our absorbent BK intellects around like matadors. Might not the thread lose relevance/coherence if we continue to splatter (excuse me) Gyan all over it?

Yes, we are all free to do as we choose but ought we not therefore to be careful lest more that we imagine is revealed in the way we do the things we do? Just a thought.

I will not post again on this thread until jannisder signals her needs to the forum via a post on this thread.

Om Shanti all

[jannisder]

Abrahma Kumar

My honest apologizes for being so foolish. For me, it is hard to understand some of the English and BK words, and have to read over and over again to find explanations. The quote is from the Avyakt Murli, but now i can not find it back (it is my greatest responsibility to tell you that. Peace forgive me).

As you can see my lack of knowledge is enormous. You on this forum are all teachers to me, BK, ex-BK or PBK.

Proy. I do not have any religious background but have been exploring. Knowing now that there is a God helping me.

[abrahma kumar]

Thank you jannisder and welcome back. I have not seen any action of yours that one would attribute to foolisness - so no apologies are needed at all in my books. We all accept that anyone posting on this site will do so whenever they can and to the extent that they feel they want to.

Thank you for confirming that you do have access to Avyakt Murlis. Did I miss your response to bansy's question's or have you decided that the answers are not irrelevant?

[bansy]

Thanks for the direct reply.

We have spent time together everyday for the last 6 months. He is a BK for 6 years

That is a long time. He should know better.

I am sorry to say but it looks like you are simply filling in his spare time and his own insecurity as a BK. There are also no fingers to directly point to who is right or wrong. Just a matter of coincidence in each person's lives.

Coming onto this forum and asking your question, is already a sign of your own doubt in your relationship with him. Also do not get yourself thinking about BK stuff simply to get to understand him better, it does not work. If your friend was a policeman, would you become a policeman to understand him ? Yes, maybe just enough to know what a policeman does. So for now, all you need to know is what a BK is and does.

Spending time together, are you living with him ? If not, then try not to see him for 3 months or longer. Stay with some friends or family, talk to someone else if you can, just try to avoid him. If he persists on seeing you, then he is insecure and needs you and hence is a fake BK. If you are living with him, then that is already taboo for BKs, which is your answer to his sincerity and trust.

Good luck. It took a lot of guts (strength) for you to reveal your personal problem here, but it shows you are not blind to the situation. You are still young and there are still many good years ahead of you for many things.

[john]

If you are living with him, then that too is taboo for BKs

Bansy, I don't quite understand why you are saying this? Is this the given advice?

Jannisder,

I think you are at the point where honesty all round with you and your friend/partner is needed. Remember just because he is a BK doesn't mean he is perfect or pure and he will make mistakes just like every single other soul in the world, that doesn't necessarily make him fake. Though if he is leading you on, just to get you to join the BKs then that is quite wrong. He must know that not all souls will become BKs.

As Abrahma Kumari has said, you need to maybe give some more answers to your situation to get better advice, otherwise all answers could be shots in the dark only based on past experiences.

[jannisder]

I belief you missed the responds.

bansy,

We are not living together but we are making plans for building a house for me near his. He told me that BK would ask questions about that, but if i have a pure life it would be OK. His so called service to me is over the top! Give me presents an all. He must consider me as a BK because he eats the food i prepare.

proy,

I have great respect for your wife. I am also educated in a stream of social scientist, and also made a plan ... As your wife, i also belief I have to get in BK. Although he is in BK for a long time and committed to Shiva, there are a lot of things in the world he desires. When he got in he was a lost person, with a lot of pain. He told me all about it.