What's pulling me away

[abrahma kumar]

So here I am bidding G'day to no-one in particular from this little corner of cyberspace but alas my heart is a little heavy today. Why? Because if I look at my state of mind right now through those 'duty of care' lenses that some on the forum wish the BKWSU would decorate itself with, I can see that the very circumstances that I allow to constrain my posting on the site actually mitigate against ME taking full and personal responsibility for demonstrating that "duty of care". Consequently, I feel complicit in the organisation's machinations and this complicity is having a corrosive influence on my self-esteem. How long can it continue? I feel awful. How long can one be "on the way out" of the BKWSU or any such organisation? Is this another sort of "Honeymoon Period" to borrow a BKWSU phenomena explored elsewhere on the forum. Is there a exiters honeymoon?

I am chosing my words so very carefully, as though scared that the thought police will somehow detect my worldly identity from my choice of words, or sentence construction, or the unmistakable cadence of my language! I feel peculiarly exposed by my presence here, as if there is a self that I am not able to mask ... However I am waffling, so I will get back on topic.

All is not well in the BKWSU! Listen to Dadi Janki's classes carefully and you may be able to detect that. There are soul's that are in deep, deep personal anguish inside the organization. And how does the good old BKWSU Mothership respond? Well in one instance we see it closing ranks and choosing to preserve itself rather than see that that the individual gets the assistance so obviously needed - the good old corporation must survive at all costs! Capitalist ideology to the core and it stinks to high heaven's ... or should that be it reeks of hell?!

Maybe organisations such as the BKWSU will and do prefer to keep you onside - where you can be controlled so that any potential damage can be limited - rather than risk the chance that the world outside come to know the inside of their business. In this case the business is God's House! And inside, everyone will come to know your secrets. They have to know because you can not be given free rein to go contaminating the pure souls and trampling all over the Godly systems with your impurity now, can you? Oh no, we have to keep a our vigilant (soul conscious) eye on you. oh, and then there is your own guilt at having fouled on your own Godly fortune. Damn! Who helps with that psychological rupture?! Oh, just have more Yoga! You are gonna suffer like nobody knows for them there karmas of yours but that aint nothing to do with the Yagya to be sure. You still want to sit? Okay, sit.

Thing is though that you yourself know that it seems impossible that you will ever again be able to connect with that Shiva because no matter how much you fess-up you are reminded every day in the Murli that your actions show us all that you are just the degraded specimen that God has supposedly come to uplift. And notwithstanding all of that, you did what?! Oh by the way, the whole class is listening as well!

Organisations such as the BKWSU are NOT the universe - though they may conduct their business of indoctrination with that belief. Leading us to believe that NOTHING else matters outside their much vaunted doctrines and systems! An organisation that wants you to know only that which it wants you to know can be seen as a dispener and facilitator of humanity's descent into an awful and ultimately self-abusing state of ignorance - me thinks. That's politic's ain't it?

And so to all our 'fallen' BK comrades, whatever their condition, whatever their fortune, whatever their karma's, however they have fallen, please note that you ARE God's children.

Whilst writing this I was wondering how long it is gonna be before I am an ex-BK? Or should that be, how much courage is it gonna take me to be 'fess up to being an ex-BK? Maybe there is another way of looking at things: Perhaps I should stop thinking in terms of being an Ex-anything but instead be soul conscious in the 'best' way that I can.

Could such a state of being enable me to live a meaningful life without being in bondage to an organisation? Ah well, questions, questions all the time.

Vaya con Dios

[yudhishtira]

And so to all our 'fallen' BK comrades, whatever their condition, whatever their fortune, whatever their karma's, however they have fallen, please note that you ARE God's children. Whilst writing this I was wondering how long it is gonna be before I am an ex-BK? Or should that be, how much courage is it gonna take me to be 'fess up to being an ex-BK? Maybe there is another way of looking at things: Perhaps I should stop thinking in terms of being an Ex-anything but instead be soul conscious in the 'best' way that I can.

To your first sentance, I would say "right on bro!" to that!! And I would fully agree with your last sentance. That's how I "deal" with things. You aren't an ex- anything, you are God's child. Sending you love and hugs. If you would agree to accept such terrible things ... you are honest and also courageous and have the humility to examine your motives. That's not a small thing.

Maybe I am deluded, but I have to separate the machinations of what the organisation is doing from my personal experience and love of Gyan and Baba to maintain my sanity (whatever that is).

Consequently, I feel complicit in the organisation's machinations and this complicity is having a corrosive influence on my self-esteem.

I can also relate to this. It requires a lot of courage to be true to yourself in the face of total opposition. Having been put in the pigeon hole of suspicion by the leadership, and had other BKs warned off me even though I'd done nothing but maintain relationships with people they did not like, I've had to learn to be pretty self-reliant and reliant on Baba. And I've learnt not to depend on others approval for my self-esteem. A tough lesson as the BKs system seems to run entirely on approval seeking.

[abrahma kumar]

Dear, dearest bansy bansy you are so wonderful. I have come back to this thread today and for long moments did not observe that there was a 10th page. So in reading your last post on page 9

Jannisder, You're talking about him all the time, what about you, can you undo his 6 years as a BK. Would this make you feel good?

I was once again 'appreciative' of the incisiveness of your feedback (it is one of your specialities I observed via your posts) and dare I say critical relevance. Jannisder, your response to bansy's feedback was fresh and honest as always however your analysis:

But if you don't want to hear anything about him anymore ... I can handle it. Ill give you all a rest and come back later with the outcome of this hole thing

rang a little off-key with me for some reason that I could not quite put my finger on. These feelings were etched a little more sharply in

I'll be happy and feel good on the day he tells me that he is happy that I pulled him out (if I can call it like that because it will be his own choice). Until than I feel kind of miserable for doing all this but blessed with joy and happiness by my surroundings that give me the power to cope.

But again the reason for my feeling off-balance remained elusive. Suddenly, out of my mind's mist this question came into focus: Jannisder, is your own engagement with the BKs beginning to take a slight 'toll' on you? This uncertainty about whether or not you ought to post here, where does it come from? How can one 'engage' with the BKWSU to the extent you have been or may have to over a prolonged period of time without oneself falling foul of some of the 'downsides' explored on the site? Then suddently I realised that there was a page 10 and agian I came face-to-face with the marvel of bansy: incisiveness, maturity, openness, support and maybe most of all 'insightful'. The following bore the hallmark of the feelings I was experiencing:

Would it make you feel more comfortable now, with some of the understandng you've got from this forum, to also "join" (partially) the BKs to see what it is really like ? Not to support him, but for your own understanding. Then you may know in time what is right first for you, and then for both of you. At the moment you are just standing from outside the BK box peering in.

But I wonder if subconsciously Jannisder has already 'joined' the BKWSU? Is this the risk that we run when entering into such a scenario as Jannisder's? Does everything associated with the BKWSU: the knowledge, the atmosphere, the meditation, Shiva, Brahma, blah blah have an imperceptible influence on us such that in a very short space of time we begin to feel a 'belonging'; a sort of allegiance that ever so gently begins to 'close down our critical faculties? The experienced student will understand when I draw the analogy of: the mouse that blows ever so gently on the skin before biting ;).

Then finally bansy said:

(Yes, this forum is unfortunately has its limitations as it is not a chat room, but we use it as best as we can. Note that this forum is relatively new, there must have been many cases similar to yours in the past but many people did/still do not have access to a PC or such a forum during their BK time. So whatever you outcome will be purposeful for others too, maybe try to see it this way for now given your struggle).

Again reminding us that this forum is a great place and without posters like jannisder the world would not be able to get an insight into the potential 'real life scanarios' faced by a BKWSU student. It could even be the student sitting next to you in morning class! So how invaluable is Jannisder's contribution to the site? Priceless me thinks. This forum provides a counter-balance to the air-brushed image and legacy that the BKWSU may prefer to 'foster'. No, I am not saying that the BKWSU is ALL bad or even bad at all, however the personal perspective is perhaps more valuable than the corporate image.

[john]

And so to all our 'fallen' BK comrades, whatever their condition, whatever their fortune, whatever their karma's, however they have fallen, please note that you ARE God's children.

Who do you feel has 'fallen', those within the BK ranks or ex-BKs?

[abrahma kumar]

John I do not use the word fallen in the way that you ask. Note too that I have enclosed the word in quotes which is my way of politely asserting that I disagree with the term and all of the typical BKWSU 'stream of consciousness baggage' associated with it's use. In essence, that post was a response to my being told of a human tragedy. In handling this situation the organisation's preference to avoid external scrutiny at ALL costs was exposed.

Yes, if true, then the most sacred trusts and Shrimat may have been broken, but that does not give the right for certain pronouncements to be made or the passing on of information that should really remain CONFIDENTIAL.

I am unable to accept that there is a human being anywhere in the world who at one time or another did NOT feel in need of a merciful hearing.

BKWSU student's may not be aware of the length's the organisation will go to to protect itself, including the use of doctrine as a tool for either stripping a soul of dignity or reinforcing feelings of helplessness and dependency - aka keeping it onside. While at the same time the organisation professes to have a unique insight into forgiveness, mercy, God etc. Control is what it all seems to be about.

So 'fallen' in my parlance relates to any soul who has 'suffered' or is suffering as a result of it's link-up with the BKWSU. I do not use the word from a stand-point of 'spiritual superiority' or 'spiritual smugness'.

There may be some circumstances in which a soul ought just to pack it all in rather than sit around hoping that God's mercy together with the good wishes and pure feelings of the gathering will make everything alright in the end. To alter slightly a lyric sung by the late Bob Marley: Only your so-called friend friend knows your secret, so only he can reveal it'

[abrahma kumar]

Was wondering whether site admin keep any records of the 'traffic' and any comparitive figures on "new and active posters" on the site over a given period? It feels as if this online publishing tool geared specifically towards BK's, PBKs, Ex-BKs and more recently the Vishnu Party is really starting to take off - unscientific opinion of course - with some of the first time posts being of a very deep nature. Congratulations to everyone

[abrahma kumar]

Dear God,
This Friday, as last Friday, my BKWSU life has been rocked by a revelation that is really too awful to contemplate. It is clear to me now that I have to put a time limit on my continued association with the BKWSU. Coupled with which I have to act on certain thoughts that I came into 2007 with. I don't quite think I have arrived at the "goodbye to God" stage but I tell You in all honesty that atheism seems an almighty liberating proposition right now.
What will I tell my family? My sons? My wife? Every single one of them, like me, a student of the BKWSU?!

Dear Forum member,
If by chance you come across this post in your wandering around the site and out of human kindness you feel motivated to offer a few comments, please also be aware that I am not soliciting any feedback. Sorry. I am 'publishing' these thoughts as a memorial to all that is dying in my life and all that is simultaneously taking birth. Labour is a pretty painful process - and though God urges that we ought not to labour in our efforts, giving birth is impossible without it.
Goodbye.

[abrahma kumar]

And just to remind myself that it's a new moment I choose to play this little game:

It was for my rescue that God did come.
So that I should know how I am a shining soul too.
Now the clouds are all gone because He has made me to see
How the weather is sweet right now, like a serving of nectar.
Flavoured to make me leave behind all my worries,
And gwan go sit myself upon the Almighty's Heart-throne
Just like a rainbow, alright.

So now I understand that the Sun is shining
and the weather is sweet.
And that I ought to move my dancing feet, yeah
because I am a rainbow too, I am a rainbow too.
So come tomorrow morning at Amrit Vela
I'll light up my lamp all over the Subtle Regions.
Celebrating a meeting with the Shining One.

Because it is for my rescue, I am sure,
That God did come.
Want THEM to know now here I am
Wondering why THEY cannot understand?
It was for my rescue that God did come.
So that I should know that I am a shining soul too.

Om Shanti

[abrahma kumar]

In the good old timeless way that many of us get introduced to the WWW; HTML and Java and such matters: Hello World.

[joel]

In the good old timeless way that many of us get introduced to the WWW; HTML and Java and such matters: Hello World.

Implying that some of us are actually robots or computer programs (or cats?) I came across your earlier posting in this thread where you ask, "Am I becoming an ex-BK, or am I one already?" A child or infant doesn't know why she does things, simply does things and learns and does some more. When I practice guitar (quoting Dr. Nirmala: music is big Maya) I prefer ways to practice where mistakes aren't something I seek to eliminate, but are actually discoveries of different directions and possibilities. That is my problem with a prescribed path: if it is so perfect that there is no room for the 'accidents' that reveal my potential, there is no room for me, no room for growth. To become a perfect BK would actually signify my own death! Particularly if my version of 'perfect BK' involves suppressing emotions and feelings.

Regarding duty of care. Although I did not know this expression at the time, discovering that the organization placed a higher priority on its appearance to the world than the welfare of mentally ill or unstable members -- made real for me through experiences with a student I gave the course to who then had a nervous breakdown -- was a important step in deciding to give higher weight to my own observations and feelings than were accommodated by the 'party line' of BK doctrine. Having said that, I can also see that doctrine is not all there is in the BKs. The early members of the group were around at a time when there was no doctrine, so in some ways they may be more free to be themselves and follow their own internal moral/spiritual compass.

[abrahma kumar]

Implying that some of us are actually robots or computer programs (or cats?)

Not at all joel, it was my playful way of re-establishing my presence on the forum after an absebce of a week or so. It seemed pretty harmless and in keeping a little with my sometimes quirky sense of humour. The 2 words 'Hello World" are very often used by text books/teachers of the Java programming language to illustrate to students the difference between creating a web page in Java as against raw HTML. I do apologise if I inadvertantly caused offence, none was meant.

A child or infant doesn't know why she does things, simply does things and learns and does some more. When I practice guitar (quoting Dr. Nirmala: music is big Maya) I prefer ways to practice where mistakes aren't something I seek to eliminate, but are actually discoveries of different directions and possibilities.

Your analogy drawing upon the 'energy' with which a child operates in the world is a useful one on many levels. I do not know why senior BKdom may be at such pains to 'foist upon others' their own irrational/dogmatic and often poorly thought out opinions in this area however those who are destined to remove this yoke from aorund there necks will do so no matter what.

That is my problem with a prescribed path: if it is so perfect that there is no room for the 'accidents' that reveal my potential, there is no room for me, no room for growth. To become a perfect BK would actually signify my own death![/b] Particularly if my version of 'perfect BK' involves suppressing emotions and feelings.

There is the self-discovery that my posting here is facilitating. It represents a connection with myself that i am cherishing more and more each day because it helps me to clarify my aims and direction.

Regarding duty of care. Although I did not know this expression at the time, discovering that the organization placed a higher priority on its appearance to the world than the welfare of mentally ill or unstable members -- made real for me through experiences with a student I gave the course to who then had a nervous breakdown -- was a important step in deciding to give higher weight to my own observations and feelings than were accommodated by the 'party line' of BK doctrine. Having said that, I can also see that doctrine is not all there is in the BKs.

Herein lies the essence of the BKWSU phenomena for me right now. I feel so sure that it is not all about doctirne. I have had and will continue to have many real experiences, many real glimpses of 'freedom' from so much that has been negative in my life that I will always testify that the BKWSU is an institution of some note and purpose in the world. It's just that after a while some of us seem to awaken and realise that together with all that has been good there is a bit of 'ill' that is also accumulated - some minor some major. But 'in-house' we have nowhere to go with them, nowhere to discuss because the "party line" is all pervasive.

I have just got back to my usual place so to speak and so for a few days my posts will be based on quick scans rather than indepth study and formulated responses so please bear with me. More later and thanks for the interaction.

When I first came across the child abuse exchange with the BKWSU - before finding this forum - I was in a state of shock. Was I in denial? No, I do not think so but the BKWSU responses left me a lttle uncomfortable especially as i know many of the Seniors that were addressed in the correspondence and I really hope that they have actively sought to close whatever looopholes there may exist through which such activity will not be possible.

[joel]

Not at all joel, it was my playful way of re-establishing my presence on the forum after an absebce of a week or so.

And this was my playful way of responding, except that I forgot the :).

[alladin]

discovering that the organization placed a higher priority on its appearance to the world than the welfare of mentally ill or unstable members

This, in BK language, is translated as lack of sustenance and investing on creation, which is easier although in the long run doesn't pay. You can make a long list of students, participants, audience but how many stay and grow and become happier and stronger everyday? This I would call a result, not just the numbers!

To achieve that, you have to desire it and apply yourself with dedication, and be in good mental shape yourself (otherwise how can you look after others??). Give unconditional maternal love, not the "do as I say or else you are not my son anymore!" acceptance, not corrections from a pulpit and pointing fingers. Too much Yang, no Yin!! Same old story. Takes little energy to create then if the other person has a problem, it's his Drama and Karma. No need getting involved.

Someone leaves, more slander, even a sadistic pleasure in seeing the other "falling into vices" that makes the ones who stay feel "purer". Nobody will care to rescue them. They forget that you exist. And if - rare cases - you get still invited to come over to a program etc., even more rarely someone will be interested in listening (that'd be a mum's sanskar) to what's wrong with you, what's in your heart. No chance for a dialogue, as someone earlier recalled in the Forum. Where to turn to?

In patriarchal chauvinistic society, this is what happens. And the more I examine different aspects of the Yagya, the more convinced I become that although it markets itself with that label, it is not feminist according to the women's liberation movement philosophy. I find it really old style, conservative, oligarchy, drenched with fascist, authoritarian systems of repression, punishments, threats, hierachies, castes, corruption (you cover my back this time, next time I will do the same for you).

What Age does it sound like? Sangam? Leading the world into the New Age? Must be joking! This always made me very uncomfortable and difficult to fit in, ultimately it is pulling me away.

[abrahma kumar]

So Abrahma Kumar, what is this all about? The information revealed by some of the posters on this site is of the bombshell variety. With each new insight into the machinations of the BKWSU the extent of my own BKWSU programming is unravelling. But day-by-day a kind of angry bewilderment is building up inside me. Every time I come to the site I expose myself to more of what I am questioning! I wonder once again whether it is now that my spiritual study really begins? Will I dedicate a great portion of the remainder my life to discerning truth from fiction within the BKWSU and it's teachings? Is it worth it? Will I do this whilst staying on the 'inside' or will I do so from 'without'?

Thinking back to my avid BKWSU student days I feel that they have everything well sown-up. My voice of protest will be such a lonely one and I can well imagine that my fellow students may well wonder if I am losing my mind. Having said that, I am fully aware that the family members may be amongst the accusers. Or will they? Is there a chance that my concerns also echo the yet still silent concerns that some of the family members have?

And how to overcome the agonsing thought that if I am wrong and others 'get pulled' away from God 'due to my revelations' then how great an evil would that be on my part? Dear God, Akasur and Bakasur, as mentioned in the BKWSU Murli come to mind. Not to forget Ajamil! Or even Narad! Maybe I ought I to set myself up as the self-apponted vessel into which all four of those evil-spirits incarnate! I can bet that there is no soul in the world willing to take up that part :roll: Would a quartet of legendary evil-doers packaged into a cyber identity get any followers?! I doubt it. So I guess I had better deal with reality and stop dreaming up nonsense.

Someone on the forum already pointed out that the A in front of Brahma would lead a Hindi speaker to query whether it is an overt expression of my being Against Brahma. Am I?

Maybe the evolution of this topic is headed along similar lines as Jannisder's: Should I get out - leaving all behind me; Or should I stay in for the sake of appearances - in the hope that i will be able to support the others if/when they too 'awaken'? Can I pull such a role off? Is it a part cast in the manner of a 'sacrifice' or delusion?

A Work-In-Progress.

[abrahma kumar]

So ciao after a week of more observation than actual posting. Great topics. Take care all.