Who does ShivBaba speak through ? (no PBKs please)

[bansy]

Sorry, NO PBKs please (we know your answer).

Today's revised BK Sakar Murli 17/05/2006 : "ShivBaba ONLY teaches you through Brahma".

So to dear BK brothers and sisters....who speaks through Dadi Gulzar ? Can it be ShivBaba through Brahma (who is bodiless) through Dadi Gulzar ?!

This is most up to date reference. Would like to hear especially from BKs and BKs passing by this forum. Have courage.

Sorry no offence but, NO PBKs please (as we already know your answer) because this post is specifically targeted for BKs and see if they can understand it.

[khormozian]

What I have been told is that Shiva requires a body to communicate and that He uses Brahma's subtle body post-1969 in the same way that He used his corporeal body pre-1969. Since Brahma became Avyakt, Shiva enters subtle Brahma (known as BapDada) and this combined entity uses Dadi Gulzar's body to communicate. The difference is that Shiva and Brahma are able to co-inhabit one body, subtle or otherwise, whereas Dadi Gulzar's consciousness is not present when BapDada uses her body.

Following a class by Sister Mohini, she was asked about her trance experiences. One of the things she shared was that when she goes into trance, she sees Brahma's subtle body on its own and that she witnessed the Shiva soul entering Brahma before speaking to her. She was asked if she ever spoke to Brahma directly, i.e. when it wasn't combined with Shiva and she said no, she only ever spoke to the combined form.

I'd also be interested to hear what others think about this because my understanding of it has changed over time as I attempt to explain apparent inconsistencies.

Regards, Kurosh

[bansy]

Here's an extract of a Q&A session, undated, between a very senior BK and Dadi Gulzar :

"I asked Dadi what happens when a trance messenger goes to the Subtle Regions. She explained that she has communication through eyes and lips but with no sound. Baba emerges through the power of thought any scene and gives us the experience of that scene. Dadi Gulzar described what happens as she waits for BapDada to come down in Diamond Hall. Baba calls her to the Subtle Region and with a jerk her subtle body comes out of the body and she goes to the Subtle Region. There she meets Baba and explains who is in the hall. After a while Baba switches off her consciousness and she lies there. Then BapDada merges in her body in the Diamond Hall, we get the experience of the face changing to a male body. When the Supreme Power enter Dadi Gulzar's body there is little pressure on the system, so in the voice you can feel energy. Baba then goes back to the Subtle Region, switches on Dadi's consciousness, and she returns to her body."


The above describes the "jerk" which is NOT that of BapDada entering Dadi Gulzar's body, but of her leaving it, which has often been a cause of debate between BKs and PBKs of how "He comes and goes".

[john]

The above describes the "jerk" which is NOT that of BapDada entering Dadi Gulzar's body, but of her leaving it, which has often been a cause of debate between BKs and PBKs of how "He comes and goes".

Great stuff bansy!
keep 'em coming :)

[howiemac]

Great stuff bansy!
keep 'em coming :)

I agree - and this description is consistent with what Dadi Gulzar told a small audience of us who were in a Q and A session with her in Jan. 2002 in Madhuban.

[bansy]

Thanks, but the credit is not mine, just reporting on the matter, which I dug up recently. I am hoping more ex-BKs and BKs would share their experience.

Who is ShivBaba is a personal experience, and I would like to take part in a detached observer position. Clearly ex-BKs and PBKs have left the mainstream BK for personal reasons, call it drama, call it their role or part. However, BKs are generally good at service and dharna whilst PBKs are generally deeper in Gyan and Yoga. These are also aspects for personal experience. So maybe it is possible that Shiv enters the bodies of the chariots in both camps since all four subjects are being solidly "imbibed" there. Having differences with other souls (which seems to be the main cause of conflict, as if you did not agree with some knowledge but you still love the Godly experience and company may or may not cause you to leave, and vice-versa ) is more of a clash with the totality of all your sanskars, and these sanskars are rooted also with the four subjects in different proportions. So who is to say a BK loves God less than a PBK, if their ultimate aim is the same, or that God loves a BK more or less than a PBK. In the eyes of a detached observer, the greatest of whom is God, each one is equal.


Aside, there are ex-BKs (meaning those who left the mainstream BK) but are there ex-PBKs ? Sorry for raising another group of forum members :oops:

[joel]

Aside, there are ex-BKs (meaning those who left the mainstream BK) but are there ex-PBKs ? Sorry for raising another group of forum members :oops:

I too, would be interested to hear some revelations from ex-PBKs about Virendra Dev Dixit and the PBK version of the Gyan-trance life of mouth-born progeny.

BTW, "Mouth born" is a good metaphor for rebirth through exchange of vibrating air, as opposed to bodily fluids.

BK knowlege gave nice interpretations for the sound of one hand clapping and other Zen conundrums that assume familiarity with early Buddhism. Another: When the Kalpa fire comes at the end of history, will this and all other worlds be destroyed?

The same enlightened roshi answered this question on two occasions. On the first he replied, "Yes! Destroyed!" The second time he answered "No! Not destroyed!"

[john]

Aside, there are ex-BKs (meaning those who left the mainstream BK) but are there ex-PBKs ? Sorry for raising another group of forum members Embarassed

Yes there are, but if you even listen to them you will be destroyed :shock: