Different religions

[john]

But my desire is to make you have faith not knowledge.

And that my friend is your mistake, for the sake of harmony of the forum, don't presume to know who needs faith. Besides doesn't knowledge bring faith?

And I am definetely ready to face any opposition.

You seem to have some kind of agenda here based on your past personnal experiences. I think it's best you let this go

[fluffy bunny]

Yes, I'd like to return to " Different religions " too.

Although I was disagree that there are only two form of questioning. There are many forms of questioning and just because someone said something simplistic once, it does not mean that it applies to every situation. There is questing to teach, questing to test, questioning to amuse and so on. The " Baba says ... " approach to Knowledge is just a very basic and very crude club in which the person using it is generally pushing their own agenda. Its just like the Fundimentalist Christians say, " The Bible says ... " to justify whatever abuse they want.

Andrey, I very strongly encourage you to make whatever efforts and sacrifices you can to go and live near a centre and visit it regularly. Daily even.

At present you are a BK or PBK of your own opinion with no external references or checking. You skipped over answering most of those questions truthfully and so I have to bring them into question. If you are not following Maryadas, who or what are you? Without Seniors and peers to check against for example or advice, how can you not get lost in your own spirit or that of those around you?

Living in a community of like minded souls will be both uplifting and challenging. It will knock the rough edges off you and polish you up.

On the subject of " Different religions ", I remember a senior that actually lived with the Yugya answering why such and such religions were not referred to or why such a religion was mentioned? The answer they gave was that they never came up because no one asked the question. I remember Sikhism did come up because a Sikh brother joined and Guru Nanak became a regular feature in the Murlis. You have to remember how small the Om Mandali community was for so long.

You cannot call Confucianism small, it is the basis of life for more than 20% of the world's population [ Chinese ethic group ]. No mention of Confucius in the Murlis.

Shintoism - no founder. The basis of approximately 120 million people's llives, 8 to 9 times more than Judaism. [ If you accept that most Japanese are religious and in the same way that most Jewish born are ].

Closely related to Shintoism are all the other animist religions from the Amazon to Viking that easily outnumber major religions. No founders.

Zoroastrianism, whithout which there would have been no Judeo-Christian monotheism. Jainism, without which there would have not been Buddhism. Why were they and their founders missed out?

How would Baba's 20 words or less " knowledge " stack up against someone that actually new a little bit of ethnology or comparative religion?

Personally, I actuallly accept the idea of a channelled being and a carrier sou or mediuml. Christ being channelled through Jesus makes sense in the same way of so called Shiva being channelled through Dada Lekhraj does. Of course, I am questioning this so called Shiva's status as " The Supreme Soul ".

I am also questioning the fairy stories he used to tell a couple of hundred mainly uneducated women and children or the way he and the BKWSU use overly simplicist answers as " mind plugs " to shut people up. I know them, they do not make for the foundation of a religion for me. I am bitterly sad that there was little intelligent company to ask Dada Lekhraj and him deeper questions. Lekhraj was obviously an interesting character, BapDada's take on Taoism and 5 Element theory would have been a joy.

The PBKs, to bring the topic back to this forum, or at least authentic PBKs offer something new to this equation. I have no idea what is really going on with Mr Dixit. Accepting that he is having some sort of psychic experience, and may even be channelling again, we have a chance to ask deeper questions. I have certainly seen exhibited in some of Arjun's answers, and even yours Andrey, a deeper more metaphorical understanding than was taught in the BKWSU.

But please, no more Murli bashing from folks that have not even been through the bhatti of a BK or PBK community. Yoga and faith might be part, knowledge another. But service and the community are others.

[bansy]

Jainism

Can anyone explain the deeper significance of Jains and the Jains temple Dilwara temple in Mt Abu. Other than the 108 and the statuettes are meditating open eyed, with often BKs being told "you could be looking at yourself being worshipped", which being located in Mt Abu was easy to get that enticing feeling. The Jains are strict in their diet too. I have even heard that the Jains and Diety religion were one of the same.

(Although this is a PBK forum, it means ALL members can participate)

[bansy]

In the BK thread Extreme Karma,

As far as I know, to make our story we need all type of religions, 4 main, 10 principle ones (it is all on the Kalpa tree picture).

In the PBK website, there are the 8 religions in the Golden Age : Deity, Islam, Buddhism, Christian, Sannyas, Muslim, Sikh, Arya Samaj (in this order I think). 1) Is the Kalpa tree accurate with the number of religions (8? 10?) Tried zooming up on the picture but cannot read the fuzziness. Can anyone confirm?

I have even heard that the Jains and Diety religion were one of the same.

2) I do not recall when or where I actually heard this, but anyone want to comment, especially the frequency of the mentioning of the Dilwara temple in Murlis ?

[arjun]

Sister Bansy,

Om Shanti. The number of religions depicted in the Kalpa tree is actually 10 which is equal to the number of Brahmins (including Prajapita Brahma and Jagdamba) sitting on the roots. The first two religions are the Deity and Kshatriya religion which are established in the Confluence Age. The other 8 religions (Islam, Buddhism, Christianity, Sanyas, Muslim, Sikhism, Arya Samaj and Atheism/communism) are those which are established in the Copper and Iron Age respectively.

As regards Jainism, you are correct that Jainism and Deity religion is one and the same. The repeated references to the Dilwara temple are a testimony to this fact. I am reproducing below an article on the connection between Jainism and Deity religion which was approved by Baba recently.

With regards,
On Godly service,
Arjun.

[arjun]

Who is the real Mahavir Jain and the actual Jainis?

In the entire world it is only in India that the One World Family (Vasudhaiv Kutumb) is conceptualized. India has given birth to all the religions, civilizations and cultures either directly or indirectly. India has had a rich history of 5000 years. Thousands of years ago, when the One World Family was conceptualized, at that time neither so many religions existed as they exist today nor were there so many civilizations in the entire world. And in these 5000 years the world has witnessed continuous religious and political division and not unity. So, how did the concept of One World Family originate? Definitely the answer to this question lies in the cyclical repetition of the 5000 years old human world cycle.

At the beginning of this 5000-year-old human world cycle human life was limited only to undivided India and for 2500 years, i.e. in the Golden Age (Satyug) and the Silver Age (Tretayug) only the ancient deity religion was in existence. There was no ostentation in the Sanatan Dharma. All the human beings had control over their organs because of being soul conscious and that is why they were completely prosperous and pure and used to be called as deities. At that time there was neither any temple, nor any mosque or church. Sanatan Dharma was only a way of life. Reproduction used to take place through the power of Yoga.

At the beginning of the Copper Age, when the soul consciousness of deities decreased by half like a half moon, then the soul of Prophet Abraham came from the Soul World and established Islam. Since the souls of this religion did not have any experience of reproduction through the power of Yoga, they adopted the method of reproduction through the pleasure of sex-organs and the deities of India also started following this leftist path. They transformed from jitendriya (ones who have gained victory over their organs) to the ones who are under the control of their organs. The proofs of the deities having followed the leftist path can be seen even today in the ancient Buddhist archaeological sites, the Hindu temples of Khajuraho and Konark. In the Islam established by Abraham, multiple marriages were allowed, whereas this tradition is considered bad in India. That is why at the beginning of the Copper Age this religion could not prosper in India and the followers of this religion flee towards the Arab land.

Thereafter, the process of establishment of various religions began. First Buddhism, then Christianity, then Sanyas religion, Muslim religion, Sikhism, etc. were established. By the end of the Iron Age, many religions and sects got established. Sorrows, peacelessness and corruption reach its climax. After the establishment of Islam in the Copper Age the deities first of all commenced the worship of Shiv Shankar Bholeynath or the Aadi Dev (the first deity) and began to be known as Hindus. The same Aadi Dev, who is praised by the Hindus as Twamaadidevah Purushah Puraanah, was given a name of Aadinath by some deities and thus the Jain religion was established. There have been 24 Teerthankars in this religion, but the history mentions only the genuine existence of only the 24th Teerthankar Mahavir Jain.

When the various religious fathers descending from the Soul World since Copper Age could not stop the downfall of this world, then at the end of this human world drama cycle, i.e. at the confluence of the Iron Age and the Golden Age, the Father of all the souls, i.e. the Supreme Father Supreme Soul Shiv takes a divine incarnation in this world. He enters into an ordinary, aged, experienced human body-like Chariot in Calcutta, famous for the confluence of purifier of the sinful Ganges and the ocean of knowledge in 1936-37 and He creates his unworldly Godly children by narrating Godly knowledge through his mouth.

The human body-like Chariot, in which He enters, gets a name based on his actions as Prajapita Brahma and the human soul which takes an unworldly birth by listening to the Godly versions first of all gets a named based on her actions as Jagdamba. The other human souls, who take a spiritual birth like Jagdamba, also get an action-based name, i.e. Prajapita Brahma Kumar-Kumaris. Human souls from various corners of the world are joining this Godly family established in 1936-37 irrespective of their religion, caste, language, country etc.

The aim of the establishment of this Godly family on Earth is to destroy various unrighteous religions and to re-establish the almost disappearing ancient Deity Religion. The Supreme Father Supreme Soul comes and teaches us the art of gaining victory over our organs, i.e. Easy RajYoga, to enable us to become true Jainis and to establish the living Dilwara temple in the world, in which the highest 108 souls of all the religions including Adi dev (first male) and Adi devi (female deity) will get revealed. The Prajapita Brahma Kumar-Kumaris who listen to the versions of Shiv through the mouth of Prajapita Brahma and imbibe it are called true Jainis because they neither indulge in physical violence nor indulge in the subtle violence of sex-lust. That is why sex-lust has been described as the biggest enemy in Gita. The human soul, which gallops ahead of everyone in this race, is called Prajapita Brahma. That is why He can also be said to be Mahavir Jain.

The period from the divine incarnation of Supreme Father Shiv in 1936-37 to 2036-37, when the deity religion and kingdom will get established is called Purushottam Sangamyug (auspicious Confluence Age). The Supreme Father Shiv remains in this world until the establishment of deity religion and when the entire world accepts Prajapita Brahma and Jagdamba as their unworldly mother and Father, then the Supreme Father Supreme Soul Shiv leaves 9 lakh deity souls to rule in the heavenly land India and returns to the Soul World with the remaining souls.

In this manner a 5000-year-old Kalpa ends and a new but exactly similar Kalpa starts once again like the previous Kalpa. The deity religion spreads once again in the Golden and Silver Age. And when the Copper Age begins once again, then the Jain religion gets established in the remembrance of the same Aadi Dev or Aadinath, i.e. Prajapita Brahma or Shankar possessing an incorporeal stage, through whom Shiv had got revealed.

Actually, deity religion and Jainism are the one and the same. That is why in the picture of Kalpa Vriksha (World Genealogical Tree), which was got prepared by Supreme Father Shiv, while 10 main religions including deity religion have been depicted, Jainism has not been depicted separately. If all the human souls including Jainis realize their true self and the Supreme Father Supreme Soul and renounce the physical as well as subtle violence of sex-lust, then they can become true Jainis, i.e. conquerors of their organs and can establish a living Dilwara Temple. Om Shanti

[andrey]

The deity religion consist out of the Sun and the Moon Dynasties, the Deities and the Warriors. Here are some of their qualifications. Father's quality is the quality to face. This is the quality of the Warriors. It is the quality to face adverse situations. It is the quality of the king. But the king of all qualities is the tolerance power. It is the power of the Deities. It is the power of the queens. This is the quality of the Mother.

Deities are cool, warriors are hot. Deities can be entertaining at one time and serious at other time. But all deities at some point become warriors, is not it. The same way we first become brahmins, then warriors because without fighting the great Mahaharata war there cannot be heaven. The gateway to heaven is the Mahabharata War. An this war is first in the subtle way, in the thoughts of the Brahmins of the Confluence Age. Blood of two kinds of thoughts pure and impure both are shed.

[andrey]

The deity religion consist out of the Sun and the Moon Dynasties, the Deities and the Warriors. Here are some of their qualifications. Father's quality is the quality to face. This is the quality of the Warriors. It is the quality to face adverse situations. It is the quality of the king. But the king of all qualities is the tolerance power. It is the power of the Deities. It is the power of the queens. This is the quality of the Mother.

Put in this way, it may seem that the Moon Dynasty are deities and the Sun Dynasty are warriors, but not at all. It is just the other way, may be because the Moon Dynasty can have a war inside. It is said that deities never fight. They don't even have to fight Maya. They know their victory is guaranteed.

As the Sun gives light to all and does not differenciate, similarly the souls from the Sun Dynasty will have equal vision to all souls from the world. Like the Sun burns itself and gives light, they will not care for their own well-being, whether they have to suffer and tolerate, they'll do the benefit of others.

[shivsena]

Dear andrey Bhai.
Since you have started this thread of "Different religions", i have an important query to ask to all the PBKs.

In Murlis it is said that "Main aakar sab dharmon ka vinash aur ek satya dharm (adi-sanatan devi devta dharm) ki sthapana karta hun" (meaning that I come to destroy all religions and establish the true adi-sanatan devta dharm). If this mahavakya is applied to broad drama, then the task of ShivBap is still not over as yet as all the religions of the world are still existing and the true religion is still not established after 70 years.

If this mahavakya is applied to the behad ka drama, then from 1989 onwards the advance knowledge (supposedly given by ShivBap) describes all the 9 religions in the picture of Kalpa tree (which means that all religions have to seperate out in a subtle manner in the Advance Party itself) and only when these 9 different religious groups seperate out, then only vijaymala souls will come and establish the adi-sanatan devta dharm(whose main quality is purity).

So my query is that if ShivBap is giving the advance knowledge and describing the 9 different religions in detail during the Advance Course (which will seperate out in due time), then who will destroy these 9 different religions and establish the true adi-sanatan devi-devta religion in the near future?

This is what i want to know.
shivsena.

[fluffy bunny]

If this mahavakya is applied to the behad ka drama, then from 1989 onwards the Advanced Knowledge (supposedly given by ShivBap) describes all the 9 religions in the picture of Kalpa tree (which means that all religions have to seperate out in a subtle manner in the Advance Party itself) and only when these 9 different religious groups seperate out, then only vijaymala souls will come and establish the adi-sanatan devta dharm(whose main quality is purity).

Its all good questioning, can you offer an answer as I do not think anyone else will?Sometimes I find whoever via Virendra Dev Dixit's answer a little short and vague or missing the mark.

As an aside, on the old pictures of the Kapla from the 40s, see here, there are only 4 religions; Brahman Deity, Buddhist, Islam, Christian. Care to comment?

And why is the Jewish religion so often called the Islamic religion even when later Kalpas have Muhammad on them?

[arjun]

So my query is that if ShivBap is giving the Advanced Knowledge and describing the 9 different religions in detail during the Advance Course (which will seperate out in due time), then who will destroy these 9 different religions and establish the true adi-sanatan devi-devta religion in the near future?

In most of the Sakar Murlis ShivBaba has mentioned that the Destruction would take place through Shankar, but in one of the Avyakt Vanis BapDada has said that although Shankar is instrumental for Destruction, the actual part of destruction of demons would take place through shaktis.

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

[shivsena]

In most of the Sakar Murlis ShivBaba has mentioned that the Destruction would take place through Shankar, but in one of the Avyakt Vanis BapDada has said that although Shankar is instrumental for Destruction, the actual part of destruction of demons would take place through shaktis.

Dear arjun Bhai.

So does it mean that Shankar's part has not yet started and that the process of 9 religions seperating out is going on in a subtle manner in the Advance Party; and only after the 9 religions seperate out that Shankar's part will start in the near future?

Who are these shaktis, are they the vijaymala souls??

shivsena.

[mokshakiprapti]

All Beej (seeds) are in PBKs so Shaktis are also in PBK. Shakti is close to mummy and not in BK.

Moksha Ki Prapti

[arjun]

So does it mean that Shankar's part has not yet started and that the process of 9 religions seperating out is going on in a subtle manner in the Advance Party; and only after the 9 religions seperate out that Shankar's part will start in the near future? Who are these shaktis, are they the vijaymala souls??

Shankar's part has already started in 1976 and the destruction of the demoniac elements belonging to the heretic religions both within the base/root-like souls (i.e. the BK world of Brahmins) and the seed-like souls (i.e. the PBK world of Brahmins) is going on since 1976. You may view the emergence of different ex-PBK groups as establishment of the various religions among the seed-like souls (i.e. PBKs), but it could also be viewed as the destruction of the heretic souls from the Advance Party.

As mokshkiprapti has stated, I too feel the shaktis are Rudramala souls only. Vijaymala souls have sanskars of subordination; so how can they destroy the demoniac/heretic elements within the Brahmin family, especially from the seed-like souls? But I will confirm from Baba.

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

[surya]

Regarding Satan - Ram himself becomes Ravan

Dear brother Andrey,

How come Ram himself becomes Ravan? Can you explain? :)

Regards

Surya