Hindi etc. (Shivsena)

[aimée]

Dear all brother and sisters,

I had the opportunity to learn intensively Hindi for nearly two months. It is a great experience and this is why I would like to share with you. A sister came to live with our group and teach us, she herself had learned Hindi, and had had the opportunity to spend 6 months with the PBK family, she is fortunate.

It was a great experience because through learning the language, I could understand more the culture, but especially, starting to understand Baba himself giving the clarification brought so much to his teachings, understanding his intonation, his silence, his smile, the atmosphere in the room ... this is so beautiful. I could not insist enough on the necessity for all of us to learn Hindi. It is not so complicated to learn the devanagri, and then if there is motivation, everything is possible. It is quite surprising the amount we have managed to learn in so little time, with Baba's help...

Another subject:

I have just looked through very few posts, just to take the pulse. Shivsena as a newcomer for me, I give you a warm welcome. BUT I am just a bit dissapointed by the type of discussion you raise in the topics I have read. Your purpose does not seem to me as much sharing the advance knowledge but to put in doubt what Baba (in Virendra Dev Dixit) is clarifiying. Some questions you are asking have been clearly presented in the advance knowledge. The meaning of Shrimat for example is the first thing we learn about in the Trimurti course.

I am happy about the existence of this forum, someone has put so much effort in creating it because I think he believed that a space to share would be possible, despite the misfortune of the old passed away website ex-BK Chat. The PBK there were not accepted anymore because they got lost in details of Gyan mixed with their own manmat. Even for me it was a soup I could not taste. I am sorry to be a bit straightforward, but there is a danger to end up creating the same sort of atmosphere. It seems to me (maybe I am wrong) that when a PBK wants to share with BKs, he tries his best not to discard their views alltogether, but rather he would add his own, ideally anyway.

I know other parties are supposed to be at another level and all sort of chariots have sprouted everywhere. Lets say that this part of the forum is PBK, so maybe the best would be to respect a sort of harmony in it. If you want then you create a post and write what your real belief system is, if for you there is a third Chariot etc. then it would be clearer, what do you think?...

With kind brotherly regards
Aimée

[john]

I have just looked through very few posts, just to take the pulse. Shivsena as a newcomer for me, I give you a warm welcome. BUT I am just a bit dissapointed by the type of discussion you raise in the topics I have read. Your purpose does not seem to me as much sharing the Advanced Knowledge but to put in doubt what Baba (in Veerendra Dev Dixit) is clarifiying. Some questions you are asking have been clearly presented in the Advanced Knowledge. The meaning of Shrimat for example is the first thing we learn about in the Trimurti course.

If what shivsena writes is based on Murli, then where is the problem?

Are any of us (especially westerners) in a position to say we have read all Sakar Murlis and have a complete understanding of the basics? Please don't say those in advance don't need to know all the basics. Has the final version of knowledge been revealed yet? What about part of Vishnu, Shiva is Trimurti, not bimurty.

Some of his opinion differs yes, but he does bring out some interesting points, which are overlooked, maybe you should reply to some ... Is this not a serious business?

God, life, the recreation of the world, please let's not hold back in sharing insights. Very strong claims are being made by the BKs and PBKs, we need to be respectful, but not worshipful of the chariots.

[aimée]

I do respect his point of view, but I am fearing that this forum might become like in the ex-BK chat, it was like a knowledge wrestling, about minimal details, nothing to do with sharing, and I think it was with the same soul also. If we share, it is to learn and add up to the one who communicates with us. The idea is that there is one God, who has had two chariots to accomplish his task.

When the Chariot was Lekhraj Kirpalani, there was no need for Virendra Dev Dixit to play a role, now Virendra Dev Dixit has become the Chariot, why would there be a need for God to wander here and there and to take several chariots? That plainly does not make sense. Sorry to be straightforward, but This site is important for a lot of us, so it is good if we keep this genuine idea of giving and sharing...

[john]

The idea is that there is one God, who has had two chariots to accomplish his task. When the Chariot was Dada Lekhraj, there was no need for Veerendra Dev Dixit to play a role, now Veerendra Dev Dixit has become the Chariot, why would there be a need for God to wander here and there and to take several chariots?

So are you saying there is no 3rd part of Shiva as Vishnu?

but I am fearing that this forum might become like in the ex-BK chat, it was like a knowledge wrestling, about minimal details, nothing to do with sharing, and I think it was with the same soul also. If we share, it is to learn and add up to the one who communicates with us.

Aren't you really saying the same thing as BKs would say about PBKs? I think if we view the confluenced aged drama as a detached observer things become clearer than if we become all 'clanish' about which group we belong to.

it was like a knowledge wrestling, about minimal details,

As far as I can tell it was minimal details that Virendra Dev Dixit spotted in the first place, which lead to the start of the Advance Knowledge and he knowledge wrestled with the BKs and was thrown out.

Sorry to be straightforward, but This site is important for a lot of us, so it is good if we keep this genuine idea of giving and sharing...

But shivasena has been very straightforward and said he doesn't believe it is Shiva speaking the Murli clarifications, but Lekhraj Kirpalani only. That is his opinion based on his studies, so now he is giving and sharing his ideas in a genuine way is he not?

Actually, this is not a PBK forum, just a section which is part of a larger forum at Brahmakumaris.info for those wishing to discuss PBK ideas. I feel, to be straightforward, if we are going to get precious about knowledge, then a PBK only forum, somewhere else would be more appropriate.

Sorry to be straightforward, but This site is important for a lot of us,

Yes it is, so where were you when he was making the posts you are disappointed with?

[arjun]

Sister Aimee,

Om Shanti. I agree with John Bhai that we cannot stop Shivsena Bhai from airing his views or even be seen attempting to do so. This is a public forum and everyone has a right to express his/her views. Although this is a PBK section, but it is not necessary that all the views expressed in this section would be in accordance to the official line of advance knowledge.

If any PBK does not agree with the views of Shivsena Bhai, he/she can counter it with Murli proofs or personal views or simply be a silent spectator. We have to respect everybody's right to express his/her views as far as it is done in a respectful manner.

But I would like to use this oppurtunity to request Shivsena Bhai to desist from generalizing his views about PBKs, like saying that 'all PBKs do like this' or 'all PBKs say like this'. This might disappoint some PBKs who would not like to be labelled in the way Shivsena Bhai is labelling them. Even when we speak about any weakness among BKs we don't generalize it saying that all BKs are like this or like that. There are exceptions everywhere.

With regards,
OGS,
Arjun

[bansy]

How about dispelling the thought that there is something called "basic" knowledge and "advance" knowledge ? What happened to simple "Godly" knowledge ? Presuming one knows who God is.

[shivsena]

Another subject:
I have just looked through very few posts, just to take the pulse. Shivsena as a newcomer for me, I give you a warm welcome. BUT I am just a bit dissapointed by the type of discussion you raise in the topics I have read. Your purpose does not seem to me as much sharing the Advanced Knowledge but to put in doubt what Baba (in Veerendra Dev Dixit) is clarifiying. Some questions you are asking have been clearly presented in the Advanced Knowledge. The meaning of Shrimat for example is the first thing we learn about in the Trimurti course.

Dear aimee.

Can you please tell me what is Shrimat; as per my knowledge Shrimat is what is spoken through' the mouth of brahma and Murli says that ''Shrimat se sagati aur manushya mat se durgati'' (Shrimat causes salvation and manushya mat causes sorrow); can you give me a single instance, where anyone whether bk or pbk, has achieved salvation in the last 70 years; i find that sorrow has increased both in bk and pbk family; you have been introduced to advance knowledge recently and so you are in a satopradhan elavated stage at present; so you cannot see the happenings in the pbk family at the more deeper level; let some time pass and you will realise that the PBKs are in the same boat as the BKs, doing Bhakti and not knowing that they are passing through the night of brahma.

I know other parties are supposed to be at another level and all sort of chariots have sprouted everywhere. Lets say that this part of the forum is PBK, so maybe the best would be to respect a sort of harmony in it. If you want then you create a post and write what your real belief system is, if for you there is a third Chariot etc. then it would be clearer, what do you think?

Dear aimee Bhai.
I have full respect to the pbk forum and i am very grateful to the administrators of this site for having created such a site where anyone can express his views so openly; if this pbk forum means discussing only advance knowledge (which is supposed to be the final truth spoken by God Shiva) then what are we discussing?; Truth cannot be discussed and debated; it has just to be presented and accepted; the very fact that there are many views of the same topic in bk knowledge as well as in advance knowledge, it means that the final truth has not yet dawned on mankind and that is why we all are here to express our views openly in a healthy manner so that we collectively arrive at a final conclusion.

Also i have never never never said that there is a third Chariot of God Shiva; i only want to highlight that at present the part played through' Virendra Dev Dixit is not of Bap-teacher-Satguru but it is the soul of Krishna who has been given the part as per drama to select and segregate the Kings, queens and the praja from the 916108 souls (''shuru se laker anth tak ek brahma ka hi part hai'' - meaning that ''from the beginning to the end it is brahma who is playing the part''); this is being done at a very subtle level and can be understood only by a deep study of Murli points and by exchanging views with our fellow brahmin souls. This is what want to convey to my fellow brothers.

shivsena

[aimée]

OK, sorry to have jumped at you so quickly, I was just remembering the last moments of ex-BK chat, before the PBK were excluded, and I would not like the same atmosphere to happen ... But what you are saying is interesting, so you mean that Virendra Dev Dixit is only the Chariot for Krishna, like Dadi Gulzar, and That Shiv is not in him, so where is Shiv then? So what does ShivBaba mean for you? For me the most important is the presence of God here and now to purify us and bring us to the Golden Age. If you think it is Krishna speaking through Virendra Dev Dixit, what do you do about the many warning in the Murlis about people in Bhakti marg confusing Krishna with the God of the Gita?

About me and my satopradhan stage, I wish it was so, but unfortunately I experience the same struggles as anyone, doubt about the self, tiredness and nasty sanskars sprouting out. Time is coming near, and the cycle is shorter and shorter ... I think no one is enlightened yet because it is not time for it yet. The shooting period is supposed to last 100 years, we still have a few years left before seating altogether as one family in tapasya, having left behind all our discrepancies.

For me, when it is the time for Vishnu, the controller is going to be the first Bapsaman, Ram. Virendra Dev Dixit is not perfect at the moment, none of us is. But when it is the era of Vishnu starting, then our stage is supposed to be shooting upwards, when Vaishnavidevi plays her role, she bring the Group of BK that is forming the Vijaymala and joins the advance knowledge. It is their purity that allows them to absorb the advance knowledge quickly. So Vaishna Vi Devi represents Vishnu, but the controller is Still God as far as I know, in the Chariot of Virendra Dev Dixit, just before he becomes Bapsaman, and then Shiv leaves us to our destiny.

• Only one God's directions can be called as Shrimat. [ Mu 8-6-73 Pg-1]
  Welfare lies in following the directions of one. You have found God, whom you had been remembering since half a Kalpa. Therefore, you should not leave him. Why do you get confused in this? Baba says, as per the drama, I have come to present you the fortune of Kingdom. You will have to follow my directions. Remember me. [13-4-77 Pg-3]
  the Father also gets the work done through the three personalities. That's why the picture of Trinity is specially praised and worshipped. You say Trinity Shiva. One Father performs three tasks through whom the universal work is being done. [Av. 4-1-80 Pg- 173]
  There is complete knowledge in the picture of Trinity. In the picture of Trinity, only the picture of Shiva, the bestower of knowledge is not there. The picture of the seeker of knowledge [Brahma] is present. [Mu. 23-1-75 Pg-2]
  When the Father comes, Brahma, Vishnu and Shankar are also required without fail. It is also said "Trinity God Shiva speaks". Now he cannot speak through all three of them (at the same time). These matters should be imbibed properly. [ Mu 22-2-75]

[shivsena]

OK, sorry to have jumped at you so quickly, I was just remembering the last moments of ex-BK chat, before the PBK were excluded, and I would not like the same atmosphere to happen...

Dear aimee.
You apologies are gratefully accepted; i can understand the outbursts of brahmin souls towards each other at times; but they are to be taken in lighter vein; when we are trying to establish rajdhani then some sparks are bound to fly as it has been said in Murlis that "pahele padayee (first the study of Murli points); then ladayee (then fight over establishment of truth) and then rajayee(and finally the establishment of kingship); so the BKs and PBKs will have to fight it amongst themselves during the shooting period (as the the kings of the broad drama also have fought each other from Copper Age onwards); only after this fight the gates of heaven will be opened. (mahabari mahabharat ki ladayee ke baad hi swarg ke gate khulenge).

But what you are saying is interesting, so you mean that Veerendra Dev Dixit is only the Chariot for Krishna, like Dadi Gulzar, and That Shiv is not in him, so where is Shiv then? So what does ShivBaba mean for you?

Again i have never never said that ShivBap is not in the body of Virendra Dev Dixit; i firmly believe that shiv+Ram+Krishna are all three in the same body; but at present during the shooting period Shiv+Ram are just observers and the whole show in now controlled by Krishna's soul who is playing a dual game with the BKs as well as the PBKs (because he has been given the task of seperating the kings, queens and praja); only when Ram becomes 100% incorporeal stage (bindu roop stage) and becomes like ShivBap in all respects then Krishna will be controlled by Ramshivbaba and will stop going to mt abu and then the gates of heaven will be opened by brahma. This is the future sequence of events which i forsee as per my research of Murli points.

For me the most important is the presence of God here and now to purify us and bring us to the Golden Age. If you think it is Krishna speaking through Veerendra Dev Dixit, what do you do about the many warning in the Murlis about people in Bhakti marg confusing Krishna with the God of the Gita?

It is because of this fact only (Krishna controlling the body of Virendra Dev Dixit in Sangamyugi shooting of Dwapur and Kaliyug) that the whole world from Copper Age onwards will confuse that the God of Gita is Krishna.

shivsena.

[admin]

Actually, this is not a PBK forum, just a section which is part of a larger forum at Brahmakumaris.info for those wishing to discuss PBK ideas. I feel, to be straightforward, if we are going to get precious about knowledge, then a PBK only forum, somewhere else would be more appropriate.

Just to clarify, it is true to say that this part of the Forum is for anyone to discuss matters relating to PBK. Currently, there are no limits to which part of the Forum any member can access. There is no intention to prohibit all PBKs from this site.

We have also provided a "PBK only" forum, that only registered PBKs can access, if PBKs wish to discuss matters privately, without interruption or in greater harmony.

[john]

That plainly does not make sense.

Murli Clarification
VCD No.449, Cassette No.935, dated 01.06.06, Nellore
Clarification of Murli dated 06.03.67

" ... and in the path of knowledge it is said 'Trimurti Shiv'. It means that Shiv has three personalities. He comes and speaks through three personalities."

[aimée]

I am sorry I haven't come back to you for a long time, I usually have a mail notifying me of replies to the posts, but it seems to have disappeared. I also have to concentrate on the Hindi, and I cannot advise it too strongly, everyone should learn it as it is Baba's (in Virendra Dev Dixit) language, and the original language of the Murlis.

To John,
the extract you are mentioning is about the Trimurti Shiv, as he comes in Brahma for establishment, Shankar for destruction of the old world, and maintenance of the new world. The three personalities have different roles, but there are only two official chariots. Brahma was DDL and is Jagadamba, Shankar is Shiv, Krishna and Ram, Vishnu is the combination of four helpers (Jagamba, Saraswati, Krishna and Vaishna Vi Devi) and the controller (ShivBaba - with Virendra Dev Dixit).

As far as I know there are only two Chariot, playing the role of the mother (Lekhraj Kirpalani) and the Father (Virendra Dev Dixit). Some children might be used for punctual interventions, but they are not playing the role of official Chariot.

Shivsena,
You cannot be more right about the sparks, BK and PBK (me included) can be such strong souls! Not to forget that we have gone through a whole Kalpa, at the end of our journey, we have accumulated quite a bit of dirt over us, purity and serenity will come in its due time ...

However, I am still very puzzled by what you are presenting to me. Do you mean that God himself is staying still (for which purpose would he then come in a Chariot?) and that it is a human being who is sorting us all, until Ram becomes Bapsaman? As a human being who has gone through the whole cycle, is not he supposed to be also degraded? I do think that at all times it is Shiv playing a role through two different chariots. If it is not God sorting us from beginning to the end, then I would not put my whole trust in this drama. I think that if in the Gita Krishna is confused by the God of the Gita, it shows what is happening now, as the worship of Brahma Baba, his pictures everywhere, etc.

[shivsena]

However, I am still very puzzled by what you are presenting to me. Do you mean that God himself is staying still (for which purpose would he then come in a Chariot?) and that it is a human being who is sorting us all, until Ram becomes Bapsaman? As a human being who has gone through the whole cycle, is not he supposed to be also degraded?

Dear sister aimee.
My definition of Godfather means 'Shiva+Ram' combined (zero+one - bindishiv alone cannot be personified God) ; so till the time Shiv and Ram become combined, the task has been given to child Krishna(dehdhari- who is controling Virendra Dev Dixit) to seperate out the BKs and PBKs and to seperate out the kings, queens and praja amongst the PBKs. (as per Avaykt Vani)

I do think that at all times it is Shiv playing a role through two different chariots. If it is not God sorting us from beginning to the end, then I would not put my whole trust in this drama. I think that if in the Gita Krishna is confused by the God of the Gita, it shows what is happening now, as the worship of Brahma Baba, his pictures everywhere, etc.

The only job of ShivBap is to narrate the Murlis through Dada Lekhraj from 1947 to 1969 in a code form and then in the end ShivBap+Rambap combined ShivBaba will then give inheritance to the children numberwise as per their understanding of the knowledge; the whole period from 1969 onwards is the time given to churn the Murlis as per individual intellect and to come out with their own interpretations of the gems of knowledge (apni ghot toh nasha chade) and only in the end when Ramshivbaba starts giving the true Gita Gyan then whosoever reaches the nearest clarification of ShivBaba will get the marks accordingly (just like worldly exam, where the whole year is given to the students to study the subject and only after the final exam, the teacher gives marks according to their performance); this is what i sincerely feel, is happening in the Godly study as well.

shivsena.

[aimée]

So, do you mean that it is now Krishna giving the clarifications through the body of Virendra Dev Dixit? If it is the case, you have to consider that the intellect of Virendra Dev Dixit is not as good as Krishna's (ex-Lekhraj Kirpalani) intellect. So how did Krishna make the gross mistake of thinking that 76 was going to be the destruction of the whole world? Why did not he accomplish the task of transformation of the Yagya when he was in the body? For which reason would he take another body to accomplish his task? Because everything that is happening in the Confluence Age is supposed to have a meaning.

As Baba in Lekhraj Kirpalani was playing the role of the mother, now the role of the Father is being played through Virendra Dev Dixit. According to your views, that cannot work. And again, in many Murlis and clarifications it is repeated over and over that we have to remember the one, follow Shrimat, the elevated directions, of one, not many etc.

So how do you explain this with your theory?

[andrey]

In my opinion, the soul of Krishna will not be capable to sort kings and queens, and this will not be his duty because he is a different – lower category soul. So how can he do it. The kings of the Rudramala take complete 84 births and transform themselves from a man into Narayan in the same birth. How can someone who has made lower, lesser effort, sort these which has made higher effort than him?

Yes, the soul of Krishna is said to play the role of Dharamraj because this soul is the first leaf and the first leaf of the tree of the new world. This soul has connection with all the souls of the world in one way or another (direct or indirect because he is here from the beginning and even when the last soul comes he is here) so every soul has some accounts with this soul to settle. Until these account are settled, it is the old world.