The Cycle of Time.

[john]

Dear Freefall

Speaking from within the BK knowledge revealed in Sakar Murlis, it is said. "Those that don't make any effort, won't even receive a glass of water." In other words it is only wth the karma/action of making effort, will there be any reward. It is also said those that sit back and think 'if it is in drama I will become or not', in other words, don't make the effort because they think it is fate anyway,will lose out.

So overall, even if it is predestined, efforts will still have to be made to get a result, as per the karma teachings in Gyan.

[freefall]

Thanks John for your response. I wonder how anyone can gloss over this evident contradiction.

'Those who don't make effort will lose out' is fine but can they really do it otherwise if everything is predestined?

In a way it means that the losers will be punished for no fault of them; meaning that BK theory of karma is false.

[john]

Hi Freefall

In a way it means that the losers will be punished for no fault of them; meaning that BK theory of karma is false.

Yes, that is a good point, even though someone does an action and reaps the benefits or otherwise according to karmic laws, yet still they have no say in it because it is all predestined, therefore should they be held accountable....

I have no real answer for that, except to say karma is a law of life and it is not Shiva's law or BK or anyone's law. I, myself, haven't been able yet to read all Sakar Murlis, so my understanding is limited as to how Shiva fully explains (or not) the Laws of Karma.

[mr green]

5000 years? Get real already :lol:

[bansy]

BK theory of karma is false.

The problem of the Raja Yoga theory of karma is that it is enclosed within the 5000 year cycle. So far, no one is able to explain clearly how negative karma creeps into the entire cycle, since everything was perfect at the beginning. The closest explanation has been that Golden Age souls have inherent "dormant" vices that spring to life after natural degradation over time (which also does not fully explain how natural nature itself gets worse if everything was perfect, and how the apples and grapes in the Golden Age become less tasty over time). One day, maybe during the C\A (or even before ?) I suddenly become lusty, and a few days later, get angry because my atttached partner has been greedy and eaten all the chapattis, and so all hell breaks loose thereafter.

I agree with John, that karma, at the outset, looks like a simple understanding of receiving the benefits or punishments from your actions. However, you only reap the benefits when you are UNAWARE of your actions, however we are told to do service and have positive actions and thoughts in order to achieve a high status ... which means you are aware of your actions so as to produce good results, which therefore defeats the very objective from the start. If you are pure enough to know that that you do not even know or aware that you have become pure, then I believe you have reached your goal. But in Raja Yoga, you are told to be number one, to be equal to God, in which case you are continously measuring yourself, and in essence proving something which is unattainable.

I do believe in doing good things for things and others, but not for the sake of what is around me, but for the conscience that is inside me. Whether it is within 1 year or 5000 years, with destruction or no destruction. Have seen many souls "fear" of doing certain things in case it turned out to be bad karma, which again really means they are expecting to reap the benefits before they even start out the very action.

Anyway, have yet to fully understand what is "karma", although someone else previously has said it is just something humans have made up since God does not need it.

[pbktrinityshiva]

The rehersal for the universal drama is now being held ... whether we like it or not the soul is set to record. Not God's choice, just how it is buddy.

The director is in his chair giving directions. He's a good director, director of the directors ... trust me, take his tips on how to act and you'll get the part you desire ... he's been in the business for an eternity.

Wanna be the hero or heroine of the show? or a main character? Or are you happy just having any part? Didnt wake up and missed rehersal ... director will give you another chance ... but hey we gotta record this thing sometime do not we?

Think you can direct better? Here have your own mini-series ... just do not complain if it doesnt turn out the way you planned. Better keep in touch with the director. He's good at this stuff.

And so the reel of your births spins ...

[freefall]

Wanna be the hero or heroine of the show? or a main character? Or are you happy just having any part?

You think you can change your part? Don't fool yourself. Your part was already decided 5000 years ago and another 5000 years ago and another...

[pbktrinityshiva]

Of course ... but if i make effort now i will have always have made effort.

[tinydot]

I have no real answer for that, except to say karma is a law of life...

If theory A and theory B contradict each other, then it is safe to hold theory A and match it with theory C and set aside theory B. Or, hold theory B and match it with theory D and set aside theory A. For me, that is the basis of being rational, and you can honestly say, I don't have the answer for my non-contradicting theories, but I am comfortable about them because they are compatible (forget for the meantime scientific evidence, that can be an additional consideration later). However, once we resolve the contradiction between contradicting theories, then we can always come back to our original theories. We become detached observers, and nobody will punish us for being rational and doing our home work.

I find it ridiculous to accept contradicting theories and just say ... I don't have the answer. Well, who are we trying to fool here except ourselves. Just reminds me of a Christian who ask a Mormon, "If somebody threw the Bible and Mr. Smith's Book at the same time into the fire, and you have equal chances of catching EITHER the Bible or Mr. Smith's Book but not BOTH, which book would you save? We cannot be that greedy ...

So for me, it is better to have, even in this lifetime, to hold own principles, our own non-contradicting theories, as long as we don't get attached to them to the point of being blind.

That to me is the basis of living a sound and honest life.

[mr green]

Everyone knows the bk theories of drama and karma contradict themselves, it does not add up at all.

[freefall]

of course ... but if I make effort now I will have always have made effort.

You have just put it on its head. Does future come after past or earlier?

[tinydot]

My brain is not circular and therefore, this circular reasoning doesn't work.

OK, let's get things straight. What do souls have in the Soul World? Merged qualities of good and bad. Is that all? Nope. What about that "merged tendency" to kill on September 11, 2001, of that specific soul (ranking in the 6 Billionth)? Is that "merged tendency" to kill on that specifc date and time, PART and PARCEL of that specific soul?

If YES, I would STOP here (I can smell racism even in Paramdham) ...

If NO (i.e. not part and parcel), what causes that same soul to kill on that same specific date and time? His choice. Well, does he have any other choice? Certainly, he does!

[andrey]

If theory A and theory B condradict each other, then it is safe to hold theory A and match it with theory C and set aside theory B. Or, hold theory B and match it with theory D and set aside theory A.

That’s why we just hold only one theory, we don’t need B or C. We just need one theory, because truth is one and everything else will be proven false. It is even easier, there is no internal conflict. We just put all our’s sake on one. Then if we win…we win a lot. If we lose – we lose everything, but it is more exciting like this. And of course we bet on what we really think is true. At least we’ll be clear with ourselves.

Everyone knows the BK theories of drama and karma contradict themselves

In what way the theory of Drama and of karma contradict to each other? Future becomes past and past becomes future in exactly the same time. Its because the Supreme Soul Shiva knows that He plays exactly the same role, so why should anything else be different. Karma becomes akarma in the Golden and Silver ages, however the role still is fixed, then our actions become negative and still this is fixed. Then it is fixed for us to become karmateet. What part of the drama are we now. Each soul has its own cycle in the big cycle.

I can smell racism even in Paramdham

Yes, souls do reside in their own sections in the Soul World. The Supreme Soul resides the furthest away. He has the knowledge of the drama and does not think – what would it be if ... He knows what happens when ... The same way we can accept the past as part of the drama, the present and the future too. Then souls does not have choice, but since we don’t know our part we try to play a good one, still it will appear we had no other choice. And now is the time that every soul gets to know his part (section) and also becomes contented with it, because drama is created in this way – a perfect drama, we see that we lost something – only at first glance – we won something else, we also, when we become knowledgeful we don’t blame others, because no one is to blame. The one who has done the terrorism will appear to be happy with it and the ones who have died will appear happy with this part and the ones who had attachment with those who died will realize that, "oh, I did not have the chance to be good to this soul now he’s gone, now I don’t have a chance to be good with him, I’ll change myself and be good to others from now on", for example, and there will happen to be benefit for them too.

[fluffy bunny]

What about that "merged tendency" to kill on September 11, 2001, of that specific soul (ranking in the 6 Billionth)? ...

The one who has done the terrorism will appear to be happy with it and the ones who have died will appear happy ...

What makes the theory even more difficult is that the souls that committed the 9/11 attacks were a "BETTER, MORE POWERFUL, GREATER EFFORTMAKER LAST CYCLE" than a soul taking its first birth today, or in the last 5 or 10 years ... so how is better and worse measured? Were there more virtues in such acts or are newer souls going to commit even worse act ... but aren't new souls meant to be having their little Golden Age when they first incarnate?

The Supreme Soul resides the furthest away.

How do you make a relative measurement in a matterless infinity or is Paramdham not infinite?

[tinydot]

So from what I am getting in the cyclic theory, we cannot measure the "fairness" in the physical world. Although we see so much apparent unfairness.

Also those mosquito human souls will only take birth for 1 day and die during Destruction. The reason that "it happened to them last Kalpa" is not acceptable to me. The reason is, "that merged tendency" to have their mosquito role in the world drama, is PART AND PARCEL of that specific mosquito human soul.

Is that right logic based on pBK view?