Birth of Krishna / Reproduction in Heaven

[bansy]

Dear Godly Sisters and Brothers,

My occasional weekend visit to my BK sister friend produced the following. Can any BK or PBK try to explain the meaning? Has Shri Krishna (soul) taken rebirth between 2000-2005?

BK Murli 06/05/2006:

Shri Krishna takes the full 84 births. His 84 births are counted the moment he comes out from the womb. It takes them 30 to 35 years to become Lakshmi and Narayan. Therefore, those 30 to 35 years have to be deducted from 5000 years.

Regards
Bansy

[arjun]

Dear sister,
Om Shanti. You have brought up an interesting Murli point. We will try to get the original Hindi version of the Murli from our BK friends and try to get the clarification from Baba in this regard.
With regards,
On Godly service,
Arjun

[celtiggyan]

I believe Shiva needs Brahma Baba in the Subtle Regions in order to give Murlis - it is a combination of the two. Therefore the Murli could never have taken place without him. Once Krisna takes birth the Murlis will stop.

C.

[bansy]

According to BK knowledge, if Krishna (Brahma Baba) has taken birth, then there would be no more Avaykt BapDada season, and hence the Avaykt Murlis would end and the BapDada meetings season would also end.

So there seems to be a conflict in what is said in the Murli and what is being practiced now.

[mr green]

The Murlis are full of contradiction, if you want to see them.

[john]

the Murlis are full of contradiction, if you want to see them

So it appears at times, but without all the evidence for us to read, i.e. all the Murlis, it's difficult to see how all the points fit together. Plus part of our BK education is passed down from the Dadis and Didis and they could have interpreted it wrong. From 1969 they've had no one in person to correct any mistakes they might have made.

If our first introduction to the BK knowledge is the 7 day course and that is flawed then our further studies of Murlis start from a flawed foundation.

[john]

What about pooling a collection of Murlis for anyone interested on this forum?

It would be nice to have at least the 5 years worth doing the rounds.

[pbktrinityshiva]

Godly Brothers & Sisters,

There are in fact no errors in the Murlis but if your try to interpret them literally (e.g. in an limited worldly sense) then they will definitely not always correlate with each other.

Its similar that in the religious scriptures different people can take two far different meanings from a single peice of text as per their own state of mind.

The Avaykt Murlis given through Gulzar Dadi by Brahma Baba since 1969 are in accordance with Shrimat because Brahma Baba is in the 100% rememberence of ShivBaba when he delivers these versions. So there is not one point in these versions which contradicts with Shrimat.

I have had many such experiences like this where something will not correlate however on closer inspection and when understood in unlimited terms it is made perfectly clear. It depends on the state of our intellect when we are reading/churning the Murlis.

I still find myself understanding these things in a limited way but over time I find the unlimited meaning becomes clear but it also important to seek verification if something is troubling you.

I have some Avyakt Murlis I am happy to email if anyone would like some.

Om Shanti
PBK TrinityShiva :D

[bansy]

According to BK knowledge, if Krishna (Brahma Baba) has taken birth, then there would be no more Avaykt BapDada season, and hence the Avaykt Murlis would end and the BapDada meetings season would also end.

Having spoken to some senior BKs, the consensus is the secret of Krishna's birth is not going to be told to us until "you are ready", and would be better for students to pay attention to Yoga and their purity instead. I am not sure what "you are ready" means nor bothered to delve into asking BKs anymore on this topic since they clearly do not know, even though it is in the Murli, God's words.

I hope PBKs have a better reply.

[arjun]

Sister Bansy,
Om Shanti. I have found the revised Sakar Murli dated 6.5.06 in Hindi, from whose English translation you have quoted.
The Hindi point goes like this:

"Tum abhi jaantey ho, Krishna ke haath may swarga ka gola hai. Garbh say bachha baahar nikaltaa hai tab say aayu shuru hoti hai. Shri Krishna toh poorey 84 janma letey hain. Garbh say baahar aaya, us din say 84 janma ginengey. Lakshmi-Narayan ko toh badaa honay may 30-35 varsh lagey na. Toh vah 30-35 varsh 5 hazaar varsh say kam karnaa padey. ShivBaba ka toh ginti nahee kar saktey. ShivBaba kab aaye, time dey nahee saktey." - mu.dtd.6.5.06, pg.2

I agree with you that if Krishna has taken birth then the narration of Avyakt Vanis through Gulzar Dadi should have stopped. The continuance of Avyakt Vanis indicate that Krishna has not taken birth.

As per the Advance Knowledge Krishna has not yet taken birth and will be born to the Confluence Aged Lakshmi and Narayan after the forthcoming destruction (Mahabhari Mahabharata war). However, let us await Baba's reply in this regard. I have mailed the Hindi and English Murli point to Him.

With regards
On Godly service
Arjun

[proy]

The Avaykt Murlis given through Gulzaar Dadi by Brahma Baba since 1969 are in accordance with Shrimat because Brahma Baba is in the 100% rememberence of ShivBaba when he delivers these versions. So there is not one point in these versions which contradicts with Shrimat.

As a BK I am happy to see a PBK write this. I had thought from reading the PBK website that PBKs did not recognise the Avaykt Murlis given through Gulzaar Dadi as coming from Shiva. As you say Brahma Baba is in the 100% rememberence of ShivBaba so the Avyakt Murlis must be coming from Shiva through BB and Dadi Gulzar. This agreement brings us much closer in agreement between BKs and PBKs.

This is not to say I in any way have any problem with you having your own baba who gives his own Vanis, we are all in Godly service in our own ways and all part of the brahmin family. I hope we can move forward in a spirit of love and tolerance. After all we are all trying to make a better world is not it?

There are in fact no errors in the Murlis but if your try to interpret them literally (eg. in an limited worldly sense) then they will definitely not always correlate with eachother.

This I also agree with whole heartedly. When we are using words we are not able to be completely accurate in our description of divine matters. Words are in the dualistic dense physical world. Shiva exists in incorporeal form only. We can only do our best at any one time to express the ineffable.

Proy.

[bansy]

As per the advance knowledge Krishna has not yet taken birth and will be born to the Confluence-Aged Lakshmi and Narayan after the forthcoming destruction (Mahabhari Mahabharata war).

Dear Arjun,
We await with eagerness from Baba, thanks for the reply. Regarding Krishna's birth, so far I've had replies from BKs ranging from Yes He has/Not yet/Don't Know/Read the Murli.

Just to add:
Actually I don't mind whatever answer is given, because each soul's interpretation always has some truth in it. We all have some truth in each of us. And Baba constantly asks us to continually churn the Murli.

A key point is whether a BK or a PBK can respond to issues. Or have the ability to. It is not a matter of defending property. That property, i.e Gyan, are God's words, and as student we are merely trustees to His property, which is thus our inheritance. So issues of misunderstanding and debates usually originate from the main source....God....hence Murlis. Many of ex-BKs or "fed up BKs" became so, or became PBKs, simply there was not enough openness in the family, and yet this is supposedly a world family. (And yes, also some of us are still pondering who God is). So far PBKs have been able to ask Baba, but BKs are lucky to get to Seniors let alone Dadis.

Of late, I have preferred giving queries related to points in the Murlis, or actual practices of BKs. As Pbktrinityshiva pointed out Murlis are 100% accurate (from a BK/PBK point of view). Any other interpretation gives rise to debating outside of their framework and creating a bigger sphere (which in some ways includes this forum :shock: :lol: ).

Thanks to Andrey for providing some Murlis for all of us. And I do agree with John to see if there can be a pool of Murlis open which gives a stronger understanding of Murlis and thus a stronger understanding of the whole puzzle. Issues with Murlis have continously baffled all that come and each soul deals with it differently.

Though all this is part of the drama. Maybe the next step of the drama is the open Murli :idea: !

[john]

Just to be clear is this an Avyakt Vani(post 1969) or revised Sakar Murli(originally pre 1969) this point is taken from?

[bansy]

I am combining a trail of thoughts from previous sections as follows, to also enable PBKs to churn and comment :

In the ex-BK section under topic "What is Destruction" ...

Also there was a discussion on ex-BK chat about destruction dates and it was noted by one member that PBKs gave destruction dates that are now in the past.
It was also noted that the same website had different mirror sites with different destruction and event dates.
Can this be explained?

In the BK section under topic "Has Shri Krishna taken rebirth" ...

My occasional weekend visit to my BK sister friend produced the following. Can any BK or PBK try to explain the meaning ? Has Shri Krishna (soul) taken rebirth between 2000-2005 ?

BK Murli 06/05/2006 :
"Shri Krishna takes the full 84 births. His 84 births are counted the moment he comes out from the womb. It takes them 30 to 35 years to become Lakshmi and Narayan. Therefore, those 30 to 35 years have to be deducted from 5000 years."

To which came the reply

Om Shanti. I have found the revised Sakar Murli dated 6.5.06 in Hindi, from whose English translation you have quoted.
The Hindi point goes like this:
"Tum abhi jaantey ho, Krishna ke haath may swarga ka gola hai. Garbh say bachha baahar nikaltaa hai tab say aayu shuru hoti hai. Shri Krishna toh poorey 84 janma letey hain. Garbh say baahar aaya, us din say 84 janma ginengey. Lakshmi-Narayan ko toh badaa honay may 30-35 varsh lagey na. Toh vah 30-35 varsh 5 hazaar varsh say kam karnaa padey. ShivBaba ka toh ginti nahee kar saktey. ShivBaba kab aaye, time dey nahee saktey." - mu.dtd.6.5.06, pg.2

I agree with you that if Krishna has taken birth then the narration of Avyakt Vanis through Gulzar Dadi should have stopped. The continuance of Avyakt Vanis indicate that Krishna has not taken birth.
As per the advance knowledge Krishna has not yet taken birth and will be born to the Confluence-Aged Lakshmi and Narayan after the forthcoming destruction (Mahabhari Mahabharata war). However, let us await Baba's reply in this regard. I have mailed the Hindi and English Murli point to Him.

1) John, I also recall the destruction dates on a PBK website somewhere.
Where according to PBK knowledge, the merger of BKs and PBKs occur at least 18 years before 2036 to enable the 225,000 couples will undergo divine transformation of their bodies in 18 years. Then after their divine transformation of 225,000 couples is completed, these 225,000 couples will give birth to 225,000 twin children (on son, one daughter) making the total of 900,000 souls at the beginning of the Golden Age. And then at start of Golden Age (2036), is the coronation of Shri Krishna.
PBKs, is this accurate ?

There does seems to be some conflict with the 30-35 years to be deducted from 5000 years in the BK interpretation, and the 18 years before Golden Age in the PBK interpretation.

2) Arjun Bhai, have you received a reply from Baba regarding Krishna's birthday ?

Regards
Bansy

[arjun]

Sister Bansy,
Om Shanti. Although I had received the reply from Baba in Hindi a few days ago, I was waiting for the approved English translation. But since it has already been delayed a lot, I am producing below the final Hindi reply and the draft English translation of the same for your kind information.

"Krishna(Sangamyugi) ka janm to hochuka hai , janm hoga tabhi to Lakshmi-Narayan ka swayamwar hoga."

"(Confluence-Aged) Krishna's birth has already taken place. Marriage of Lakshmi-Narayan can take place only if Krishna has taken birth."

With regards,
On Godly service,
Arjun