Who is Father BRAHMA???

[shivachild]

So this is not really a Murli. And when and what role does the Supreme Soul play?

This is something incognito.

Av. Vani dated 23.01.1969 says,"You children know that, whatever is the role in the drama, there is an incognito significance in that. Whatever further significance there is will be told to you according to the time."

[sita]

But in the Murlis it is said that the Murlis have started from Karachi.

[shivachild]

It is known to all of us that Dada Lekhraj Kirpalani could not understand the meanings of his visions. May be, he received the clarification of his visions from No.1 intellect-Goddess of knowledge-Om Radhey-Mama-Saraswati. Dada Lekhraj Kirpalani and Mateshwari start conducting classing from karanchi itself. But, the complete Sangamyugi drama emerge in the No. 1 intellect in 1965 and real Murli started.

As far as role of Supreme Soul Shiva is concerned, I think that Father Shiv does not carry out any task task directly. So, the responsibility he gave to No.1 Shivshakti and urn of knowledge placed on her intellect.

Av. Vani 6.09.1965 says,"The Shaktis cannot do anything without Shiva and the Father Shiva also cannot do anything without the Shaktis. So the Confluence-Aged combined form of all of you is Shiv Shakti. It is not the form of just the mothers; even the Pandavas are the form of Shakti."

[sita]

But, the complete Sangamyugi drama emerge in the No. 1 intellect in 1965 and real Murli started.

On what basis do you claim this? What difference do you find comparing Murlis pre and post 65?

[shivsena]

Av. Vani 6.09.1965 says,"The Shaktis cannot do anything without Shiva and the Father Shiva also cannot do anything without the Shaktis. So the Confluence-Aged combined form of all of you is Shiv Shakti. It is not the form of just the mothers; even the Pandavas are the form of Shakti."

Excellent point...shivachild Bhai....kindly revise the date of Vani.....there is no av-Vani of 1965.

[Roy]

It is known to all of us that Dada Lekhraj Kirpalani could not understand the meanings of his visions. May be, he received the clarification of his visions from No.1 intellect-Goddess of knowledge-Om Radhey-Mama-Saraswati. Dada Lekhraj Kirpalani and Mateshwari start conducting classing from karanchi itself. But, the complete Sangamyugi drama emerge in the No. 1 intellect in 1965 and real Murli started... As far as role of Supreme Soul Shiva is concerned, I think that Father Shiv does not carry out any task task directly. So, the responsibility he gave to No.1 Shivshakti and urn of knowledge placed on her intellect.

Yes, we all agree that Dada Lekhraj did not understand his visions, because the Murli clearly states this with no room for interpretation. However... the Murli also clearly tells us, that there were at least 2 others who were the teachers of even Mama- Brahma, whom Father Shiv was entering in the early days... is not it much more logical, that it was through these individuals, that Father Shiv clarified the meaning of Dada's visions?

(He) stayed for 10 years... she used to enter trance. They used to teach Mama(Om Radhe) and Baba(Dada Lekhraj) the drill (of meditation). Baba used to enter into them and give directions... they commanded so much respect. They are not present today. There wasn’t so much knowledge at that time." [Mu 25.07.67]

Also, doesn't saying that Father Shiv doesn't carry out any task directly, go against the following points?...

“There is the Karan-karavanhaar (Supreme God Father)... that is why the role of Karanhaar (the direct mother role) has been played (through Brahma Baba Krishna, up until 1968/9). Now He(Shiv) is playing the role of Karavanhaar (i.e. the indirect role of completing the task of practical Revelation of the Father, through the mothers by inspiring them to rise up... via the corporeal body of Shankar aka Prajapita Brahma, since 1969/70).” [Av 14.02.78]

"You understand that I (Shiv) am establishing the original eternal deity religion through Brahma, and that I inspire the destruction of all religions through Shankar." [Mu 23.01.03]

"Brahma started the work of establishment through Gyan (up until 1968/9); and Shankar will finish it." [Mu 09.03.12]

[warrior]

(He) stayed for 10 years... she used to enter trance. They used to teach Mama(Om Radhe) and Baba(Dada Lekhraj) the drill (of meditation). Baba used to enter into them and give directions... they commanded so much respect. They are not present today. There wasn’t so much knowledge at that time." [Mu 25.07.67]

Dear Roy do you have the whole Murli where this point was mentioned? Or from where did you find this point?

thanks

[Roy]

Dear Roy do you have the whole Murli where this point was mentioned? Or from where did you find this point?

No, unfortunately i don't warrior Bhai... This point came from the AIVV publication... True Gita - Volume 1

[sita]

http://www.Murli.info/1967-2/Murlis-jul ... july-1967/

(second half of second page)

"Dash varsh rehnevale dyaan me ja.. Mama baba ko bhi dril karate the. hed hokar beithe the. un me baba pravesh kar deirekshan dete the. kitna martba tha. Mama baba bhi unse sikhte the. aaj vo bhi nahi."

"The ones staying for 10 years were going into trance, they were making even Mama and baba perform the drill. They were sitting as heads. Baba was giving direction, entering them. There was so much respect. Even Mama and Baba were studying from them. They also are not there today."

(end of third page)

"10 varsh ke andar ham yahan, devi rajya sthapan karenge. na kare to aap yah makaan ad sab le lena. ladna chahie na. bolo dusra koi eisa nahi kahenge ki ham 10 varsh ke andar yah karya na kare to makaan aap ka. tum likhat me dete ho. to bhi samajhte nahi. eisa koy likh kar de na sake."

"In 10 years, we will establish deity sovereignty here. If we don't do that you can take all these house etc. One should argue, is not it. Tell that no one else can say like this that if in 10 years we don't do that task, the house is yours. Even though you give this in writing, they don't understand. No one can give in writing like this."

[Roy]

Dash varsh rehnevale dyaan me ja.. Mama baba ko bhi dril karate the. hed hokar beithe the. un me baba pravesh kar deirekshan dete the. kitna martba tha. Mama baba bhi unse sikhte the. aaj vo bhi nahi."
"The ones staying for 10 years were going into trance, they were making even Mama and baba perform the drill. They were sitting as heads. Baba was giving direction, entering them. There was so much respect. Even Mama and Baba were studying from them. They also are not there today."

Thank you for these Murli extracts sita Bhai. May i just confirm, being as i am a non-Hindi speaker... that the words "the ones" or "ones" is actually contained in the Murli text... and is the tense correct?... Is it "staying"?.. or could it read... "the ones (who) stayed for 10 years"? as in the past tense... Either way, i would expect this to be an accurate version of the Murli(although there is always room for human error in recording in a written sense, and then transposing the text)... and appears to be pointing to the fact, that these individuals stayed in the Yagya for 10 years between 1936/7, and 1947... which is the year the Murlis started being narrated... or more precisely... started being narrated through Brahma Baba Krishna, directly to the children. Does it also go on to say... "that there wasn't as much knowledge at that time"?

"In 10 years, we will establish deity sovereignty here. If we don't do that you can take all these house etc. One should argue, is not it. Tell that no one else can say like this that if in 10 years we don't do that task, the house is yours. Even though you give this in writing, they don't understand. No one can give in writing like this."

From this you can understand why Brahma Baba wrote to the government and promised them the property of the Godly Univeristy, if deity sovereignty wasn't established by 1976/7. It is easy in hindsight, to look at this passage in an unlimited sense... knowing also that Baba had confirmed that the Confluence Age definitely lasts for 100 years... by stating, "at least 100 years", and "100 years at the most"... so that there should be no confusion over the matter... This reveals to us in the here and now, that this message shouldn't have been taken literally or in a limited sense, as Brahma Baba apparently did. Also... who are the "we" Baba is talking about?... and, who are the "they" who don't understand?

[shivachild]

"Dash varsh rehnevale dyaan me ja.. Mama Baba ko bhi dril karate the. hed hokar beithe the. un me Baba pravesh kar deirekshan dete the. kitna martba tha. Mama Baba bhi unse sikhte the. aaj vo bhi nahi."

"The ones staying for 10 years were going into trance, they were making even Mama and Baba perform the drill. They were sitting as heads. Baba was giving direction, entering them. There was so much respect. Even Mama and Baba were studying from them. They also are not there today."

imo.....the person who knows Hindi can very well understand that it is not mentioned in this Murli point that there were 2 souls. In fact, They means 108 shivshaktis here. As, it is mentioned in Av. Vanis that Shiv cannot do anything without shaktis, these 108 shivshakti souls (shivshakti pandav sena)

1) used to go in trance,
2) were sitting as head of various religions of human geonological tree,
3) receive instruction from Father Shiv through trance,
4) teach drill to Mama also as she never went into trance,
5) Even Dada Lekhraj Kirpalani also learn something from them,

Similarly at the end these 108 shivshakti-pandav-sena-souls will reveal the Father by becoming 'EQUAL TO Father'

] Excellent point...shivachild Bhai....kindly revise the date of Vani.....there is no av-Vani of 1965

Thank you.....brother Shivsena.....for pointing out the Av. Vani date. This Vani point is taken from Av. Vani dated 6th September 1975.

Av. Vani dated 06.09.1975 says,"The Shaktis cannot do anything without Shiva and the Father Shiva also cannot do anything without the Shaktis. So the Confluence-Aged combined form of all of you is Shiv Shakti. It is not the form of just the mothers; even the Pandavas are the form of Shakti."

[sita]

Dear Roy,

Yes, the Murli continues with....at that time where was not that much knowledge.

As shivchild has mentioned, there is no excplicit saying of the word two, but just the plural tense is used, but if it is a matter of 108 souls we have to conclude they all lived (rehna means to live, to stay) for 10 years, all the 108 souls used to sit as heads and do drill etc. One would speculate it would rather produce chaos. I also think it is hard to speak in general therms, refering to such a big group. If 108 soul were to leave the Yagya together, suddenly, it would make quite an outstanding event, that would be mentioned by Dadis etc. Maybe we have to tally with ther points also, but maybe the key lies in the word...jay...that is not well readable. If it is jay, i would suggest is refers to plural faminine...jain, but it would have to be...gain...and it would mean, they went to trance (once), there is no sense of continuous practice like it would be if we had jatin thin. There is one letter after the...ja...that i cannot say what it is and what it means. Yes, it is seen that there are a lot of typical errors in the Murli and if it is compared to the audio recording (unfortunately we don't have it for this Murli) it becomes obvious that it is quite a task to hear well what it is being said and write that down. In puting the audio in writing, there is also margin for mistakes.

[warrior]

I also think it is hard to speak in general therms, refering to such a big group. If 108 soul were to leave the Yagya together, suddenly, it would make quite an outstanding event, that would be mentioned by Dadis etc.

Thanks Roy/Sita/shivchild

Yes true. Only few were in the position of giving directions in the beginning. Maybe the 108 took different roles for the settlement of Yagya as per legal issues, maintenance, etc. But the main focus was in one or two individuals and they were not Dada Lekhraj nor Om Radhe.

[Roy]

Thank you for your further comments on this matter sita Bhai, they are much appreciated. I have to agree with yourself and warrior Bhai concerning the numbers at the beginning of the Yagya, who were in prominent positions... It would not be 108 sitting as heads and giving directions... it would be 2 or 3 individuals imo.

Who will be in charge at the end?... Vishnu!... and so who will be in charge of sustenance at the beginning... the 4 or 5 souls who play the part of Vishnu at the end. We know from the Murli that the 4 arms of Vishnu correspond to 4 souls... Brahma(Baba Krishna) and Saraswati(Mama), and Shankar(Prajapita-Ram) and Parvati(Lakshmi-Sita)... But we are told in the Murli point we are examining, that even Mama and Baba themselves were directed by others at this time... which by a simple process of deduction, points to the other 2 or 3 souls who make up Vishnu being in charge... i.e. Shankar(Ram) and Parvati(Sita)... and we are taught further in advance knowledge, that in fact there was a third individual, who is Jagadamaba Gita Mata... and it is she and Sita, who are the sisters or daughters spoken of in other points on this topic.

"Very nice children (Prajapita-Ram1, Sita-Adi Radhe2 and Jagadamba Gita Mata), who used to play very nice roles for 5(1)-10(2) years (at the beginning of the Yagya), get defeated (by Maya, due to the lack of knowledge available at this time). This is a Warfield. One should not leave Baba’s remembrance." [Mu 08.07.78]

“Those who expired at the early stage of the Yagya, again might have grown up to 20 years(Adi Radhe-Sita-2 - BK Sister Vedanti, re-born in 1947 - returned to the Yagya in 1965) or 25 years(Prajapita-Ram1 - Virendra Dev Dixit, re-born in 1942 in a village called Ahmedgunj, in Farrukhabad, UP - returned to the Yagya in late 1969). They might (in fact they both) have taken their admission to the knowledge (by 1969/70).” [Mu 17.02.75 - originally narrated in 1966/7]

“They used to teach Mama-Baba the drill, and they used to give directions, ‘do like this’. They used to sit as teachers. We used to think that their number in the rosary would be very high. They too got lost. This all will have to be understood, won’t it? There is a great history.” [Mu 28.05.74]

"Many good sisters(Jagadamba Gita Mata, and Sita-Adi Radhe) who used to bring directions for even Mama-Baba, and used to make them perform drill (of meditation), we used to follow their directions. The same girls degraded the most. This even those girls know." [Mu 15.06.69, 28.05.69]

“At the beginning of the Yagya there were two female children(Gita Mata Jagadamba and Sita2 Adi Radha) who used to even direct Mama and Baba; used to be teachers and play a superb part. They left their mortal coils.” [Mu 28.05.74]

“They also show Vishnu with four arms; then they show Brahma(Krishna) (with) Saraswati(Radhe) and Parvati(Sita2) with Shankar(Ram1).” [Mu 28.09.90]

“Father (Shiv) alone establishes the pure family cult after coming down on earth. That is why four arms have been shown for Vishnu - Parvati(Sita2) with Shankar(Ram1), and Saraswati(Radhe) with Brahma(Krishna).” [Mu 23.01.90]

"There is no such thing that Shankar-Parvati(Ram1-Sita2) does not exist at all (in the Confluence Age). This is a corporeal world." [Mu 08.05.70]

“The two forms of Vishnu, Lakshmi(Sita) and Narayan(Ram) give birth to (the deity) children (Radhe-Mama and Krishna Brahma Baba, after 2036/7) who sit on the throne (as Golden Age Lakshmi-Narayan once they become adults).” [Mu 06.09.92]

I cannot vouch for the absolute accuracy of these points... but as they stand, i believe they support the view that there were 2 or 3 souls who were in charge, at the beginning of the Yagya.

[shivachild]

Av. Vani dated 16.04.1977 says,"You also saw the Sakar Father: together with speaking of knowledge, the Father also practically demonstrated it through his actions and his form."

As per above Av. Vani point 'Sakar Father' not only speaks knowledge but also practically demonstrates through his actions. Who is this 'Sakar Father'?