shivachild wrote:imo... Till 1969 Dada Lekhraj Kirpalani played the role of Father and this role is remembered as ‘Prajapita Brahma’. After 1969 soul of Dada Lekhraj Kirpalani became an angel and now playing the role of ‘Father Brahma’. ‘Father Brahma’ will complete the remaining task of world establishment in Angelic form.
So are you saying that the parts of Shankar and Ram are played through the female form of Dadi Gulzar, by Brahma Baba himself... as we know it cannot be Father Shiv, as He doesn't enter a pure virgin who hasn't been corrupted by the outside world and she is never referred to as Brahma in the Murlis... nor does He enter the subtle body of Brahma Baba himself. So if this is so... how is it that both Ram and Shiv-Shankar are remembered in male forms in Bhakti marg? Male and female only have significance when there is a body involved.
"He (Shiv) is such a highest Father, so He should enter into a body of a king or pure sage. Monks are only pure. He should come in the body of a pure virgin, but it is not according to the rule. He is a Father, so how can He ride on the body of a virgin?" [Mu 15.10.69]
"I (Shiv) do not enter Brahma, the dweller of the Subtle Region." [Mu 04.11.72]
"Incorporeal God Father (Shiv) cannot do any work without the corporeal Father (Prajapita Brahma)... He cannot play any role (without his corporeal body)." [Mu 06.02.76]
There is no mention in the last point of the angelic Father, or a pure virgin being Father Shiv's instrument... only the corporeal Father himself can play the roles of Shakar and Ram at the end... We are told that the world Father will be clearly visible at the end... so you appear to be saying that the world Father is Dadi Gulzar! Does that really feel right to you?
“The last bomb (of knowledge), is (the bomb) of the Revelation of the Father (at the end - Shivjayanti - in the corporeal body of the complete angel, Shankar aka Prajapita-Ram - hence the name, Shiv Shankar Bholenath)." [Av 28.12.78]
"When the Father(Ram ShivBaba - Shiv+Prajapita-Ram) is revealed (at the end - Shivjayanti), very famous people (in the Brahmin family) become(are shown to be) great fools (because of their opposition of Him, since 1969)." [Av 06.09.75]
"Shivjayanti(revelation of Father Shiv in practical form, through the corporeal body of Shankar aka Prajapita-Ram) means the effort of children comes to an end." [Av 06.03.97]
"The World Father (Prajapita-Ram aka Shankar) will be clearly visible in the world (at the end)." [Av 28.12.78]
These next few Murli points all strongly suggest that Dada Lekhraj Brahma Baba was not the true Prajapita... but held the title in the absence of the true Prajapita, who will be there at the end in corporeal form, to be revealed as the World Father aka Narayan aka Shankar aka Ram aka Prajapati.
"Nowadays, although people(BKs) do have Yoga with Shiva(the point in the Soul World) and they also worship Him... no-one (amongst these BKs) knows Him (as He truly is - i.e. in which form is He playing the role of Father?). They don’t even understand that Prajapita Brahma would definitely be in the corporeal world (until the end, because it is through his body that the roles of Father-Teacher-Satguru are played, from 1969). They(BKs) are confused." [Mu 31.01.04]
"Prajapita Brahma will be here (in corporeal form) only. His(Brahma Baba Krishna's) last birth is Lekhraj. He cannot become (the true) Prajapita (as he loses many years of corporeal life whilst playing the subtle Avyakt role)." [Mu 21.08.73]
"He (Dada Lekhraj Brahma) was a jeweller... (but) how can he be (the true) Prajapita (when he doesn't remain in corporeal form throughout the Confluence Age, like the Brahmin children do)?" [Mu 29.07.77]
"Prajapita Brahma is also anadi(without beginning - the all-round soul, who stays in the cycle in corporeal form for the full 5000 years). Father of all the souls (Shiv) has come in him(Prajapita, in the very beginning of the Confluence Age). He(Father Shiv) has to come and adopt the (first class child) Brahma(Baba Krishna, in 1936/7, through Prajapita)." [Mu 19.07.73; 20.07.78]
"Shri Krishna(Brahma Baba) is the number one, the first Prince (of the Golden Age). He becomes Shri Narayan when there are 20-25 years less(i.e. when he is 20-25 years of age). For him, the full 84 births (of 5000 years duration) cannot be said either (because he loses many years of corporeal life from his 84th birth, whilst playing the Avyakt Brahma role in the Confluence Age)." [Mu 20.09.06]
"Father sits and explains, ‘whom do I enter into?’ I enter into the body of that soul only, which takes complete 84 births. Not even a day less." [Mu 15.10.69]
"Now we go to that world (of the true Brahmins of the Confluence Age). Only then do the children say we get transformed from a man to Narayan (in this very birth). It is also a story of True Narayan(i.e. Prajapita-Ram of the Confluence Age) that we hear. It is not said to be a story of becoming a prince (like Krishna Brahma Baba does, when he is re-born into the Golden Age). It is a story of True Narayan(i.e. Prajapita-Ram, who becomes World Emperor Shri Narayan of the Confluence Age at the end). They(BKs) consider Narayan to be different (i.e. they are thinking of the Narayan of the Golden Age, who is Brahma Baba Krishna). But there is no life story of (the) Narayan (of the Golden Age - all the stories of the scriptures, relate to that which takes place in the Confluence Age)." [Mu 19.07.05]
"The Ramayana, Bhagwat etc.(scriptures written in Copper Age) have contents pertaining to present time(i.e. the Confluence Age)." [Mu 21.12.72]
"Whatever has been written in Gita, Bhagwat, Mahabharata can be compared with (whatever is happening) now (in the Confluence Age world of Brahmins)." [Mu 19.04.73]
"There is a difference in becoming a World Emperor(Confluence Age Narayan aka Prajapita-Ram, ruling over 5-7 billion souls) and an Emperor of Satyug(Brahma Baba Krishna, ruling over 900,000 souls, once he inherits the tile of Narayan from his Father, Ram aka Shri Narayan)." [Av 28.01.85]
shivachild wrote:Murli dated 15.01.2013 says,"When Prajapita Brahma, who is corporeal, becomes complete, he becomes an angel. It is the residents of the Subtle Region who are called angels. There, there is no flesh or bone."
You are taking this point completely literally... here is the unlimited version of this point...
"When Prajapita Brahma, who is corporeal, becomes complete, he becomes an angel (called Shankar). It is the residents of the Subtle Region who are called angels. There (in the realm of complete soul consciousness), there is no (awaremness of) flesh or bone (even whilst remaining in the body)."
"Angels mean kings of the physical body." [Av 05.02.09]
shivachild wrote:Murli dated 31.01.2013 says,"This Dada. whose body I have taken on loan, did not know his own births. This one is corporeal (vyakt)- Prajapita Brahma. That one is subtle (Avyakt Brahma). Both are the same."
See points above that say that Brahma Baba is not the true Prajapita who will be in corporeal form until the end... the one whom Father Shiv can play the roles of Shankar and Ram etc through.
shivachild wrote:Yes, there is no praise of Prajapita Brahma due to his incomplete task in corporeal form. Only one temple in the whole world.
That temple is for the incomplete Brahma Baba Krishna, not the true Prajapita who is remembered in the form of the complete Narayan, Shankar, Krishna, Ram and Prajapati Brahma... not Prajapita the corporeal or effort making role. This is why Brahma Baba takes on the name Prajapati Brahma at the beginning of the Confluence Age... because the name of the true Prajapita is not remembered in the scriptures... his achievement of becoming complete whilst in the body is remembered, through the remembrance of the elevated roles that he plays whilst in this stage... his corporeal role is forgotten.
shivachild wrote:Naming Sita’s husband as Ram(tretayugi Ram) and myself (Shiv) also as Ram, people(PBKs) have mixed up both. [Mu 16.11.76]
The Ram of the scriptures is not the tretayugi Ram... the scriptures relate to the events of the Confluence Age... not the Golden and Silver Age. PBKs know that there are two Rams in the Confluence Age. There is Father Shiv(i.e. incorporeal Ram), and the corporeal Father, Prajapita, through whose body He(Father Shiv) plays the role of Ram, and brings salvation at the end of the Confluence Age. These two souls together play the part of Ram ShivBaba or simply Father Ram. But in the scriptures only corporeal Ram is remembered because this part is played through a body as all roles are... Thus it must be the BKs who have trouble understanding who Ram actually is.
"When there is no body there is no part."[Mu 05.06.99]
“Shiva is the name of the Incorporeal Father, the point of light. He has only one name (Shiva), which never changes. When the forms (or roles) change, then their (the chariots') names also change.” [Mu 24.01.75]
"His soul's name is Shiva. The whole world knows this. All these remaining names are given to the bodies. (Incorporeal)ShivBaba(the point form) is called just Shiva, only His body is not visible. Shankar's name is also based upon his body(thus Prajapita is also called Shankar). Soul is just a soul. There is a soul in him(Shankar) also. But names are given to bodies, like Vishnu and Shankar. Nobody tells, "O soul!... come here." [Mu 23.03.76]
"ShivBaba(Shiv in the body of corporeal Ram) is called Ram (not Father Shiv the point). But they (BKs) have thought the Supreme Soul (Incorporeal Father Shiv) to be Ram." [Mu 14.04.76]
"He is called as Liberator, Guide, is it not? The unlimited Father takes (you) back home. What is His name?... ShivBaba! Name is based on the body(i.e. the name ShivBaba has its basis on the part played through a corporeal body - i.e. Prajapita's)... but the name of that Supreme Soul is Shiv only." [Mu 27.02.76]
"Father, whom Indians call Ram too... but due to lack of proper knowledge they think him to be the Ram of the Silver Age(Tretayuga). Actually, it’s not a question of the Ram of the Silver Age." [Mu 10.02.75]
"The Ramayana, Bhagwat etc.(scriptures written in Copper Age) have contents pertaining to present time(the Confluence Age)." [Mu 21.12.72]
"Whatever has been written in Gita, Bhagwat, Mahabharata can be compared with (whatever is happening) now (in the Confluence Age world of Brahmins)." [Mu 19.04.73]
