Supporting Murli points for PBKs(AK)

[sita]

Allah means highest on high. Lakshmi and Narayan are the highest on high among all the human beings.

Murli clearly says- you are half caste (until you become pure)". Is half caste Bhagavaan and Bhagavathi - in PBK view?

Certainly. Bhagvan-Bhagvati can be said only when they achieve their complete stage.

2)Does not Baba sometimes say- "Main tumhen apney se bhee oonch banaataa hun = I make you higher than MYSELF"?
Does it imply practically we children go higher than GOD?

Yes. Baba has explained. Children become greater, because Baba does not become master of the world.

Everpure like HIMSELF!

This is also possible. It means that the soul will not be influenced. Whilst living in this impure world, the mind, the soul will not be influenced by the impurity. With its power of purity it will be able to neutralize impurity, it will become the image of the lotus. That is why Baba has said that I give you the inheritance of heaven in hell. Heaven is the pure world, pure souls live there and hell is the impure world. How can it be that the pure world, the pure mind will be there in the impure world and not become impure. Only if it becomes ever-pure like the Father that no impurity can make it impure.

[mbbhat]

Allah means highest on high. Lakshmi and Narayan are the highest on high among all the human beings.

The underlined words imply the truth. You have spoken right.
So- there is no value in PBK philosophy- by finding difference between devi-devtaa and god-goddess.

Certainly. Bhagvan-Bhagvati can be said only when they achieve their complete stage.

So- not in 1976? When? In 2016/2018 or when? Later?

Moreover- PBKs believe when one becomes complete, all become complete. So- ALL the souls will be eligible for the title Bhagavaan - Bhagavathi- right? (in PBK view)

Yes. Baba has explained. Children become greater, because Baba does not become master of the world.

My question was- practically - can any human soul become greater than God?
The underlined words do not have real significance. We become degraded when we become master of world. Baba sometimes also says- there is no praise of deities when compared to braahmins.

But, if we take the PBK argument(the underlined words), PBKs may also say- "yes, Even Iron Aged people, including animals - all become greater than God, because God does not become so!" - :laugh:

This is also possible.

That is not possible. Literally speaking, Ever pure- means pure all the time.

So- many such words/titles are relative, not absolute. So- the PBk claims saying Bhagavaan - Bhagavathi fits only to PBk souls, not to anyone else- blah, blah, blah, have no value.

But, PBKs are free to claim like my cock has three legs.

[sita]

Regarding giving drishti.

"Baba says: I give sakaash to every soul. I sit in front [of them] and give light [to them]. You certainly won’t do so.” (Mu.12.04.68, middle of pg.4)

[mbbhat]

"Baba says: I give sakaash to every soul. I sit in front [of them] and give light [to them]. You certainly won’t do so.” (Mu.12.04.68, middle of pg.4)

1) It would be better if PBKs put their views too, together with the Murli point which they write. But, left to them.
So- do PBKs imply- God should give or gives (PHYSICALLY) drushti to every soul (braahmin child) ? [that is very fine. Baba used to give that earlier. Now, since the no. of children have increased, and time also has changed - it will be lesser- as said in Post No. 117- http://www.brahmakumarisforum.net/chat/ ... &start=160

2) Now- to the point- It is not easy to reply for me, till Hindi words are found.

But, this may mean
---- in the earlier days - children were few, Baba used to give drushti to every child.
---It may also mean children cannot give such a powerful drushti like ShivBaba (obviously).
----It may also mean ShivBaba emerges each child in Subtle Region and gives sakaash(search light).

3) BTW- BKs giving drushti is not just giving sakash. It is a cross/self check- to what extent one's drushti has become pure.

4) baba also has said in Avyakt Murlis that- one should practice of giving power through drushti - else he will not high status. - AV 11-11-89
http://www.brahmakumarisforum.net/chat/ ... hti#p12543

5) Note that- baba has also said- one should not expect drushti even from ShivBaba/Chariot. - Post No. 202)- mu point No. 2). http://www.brahmakumarisforum.net/chat/ ... &start=270

[sita]

It is a cross/self check- to what extent one's drushti has become pure.

So you will sit giving drishti and if your drishnti is not that pure, you will make the other one impure also, but at least you know now.

4) Baba also has said in Avyakt Murlis that- one should practice of giving power through drushti - else he will not high status. - AV 11-11-89

What is said in the mentioned point is that we should practice becoming subtle. Just as we receive power by listening to the Murli, Murli is gross, we should experience power just by receiveing drishti (from ShivBaba). If we don't have this experience we will lose at the end.

Note that- Baba has also said- one should not expect drushti even from ShivBaba/Chariot. - Post No. 202)- mu point No. 2). http://www.brahmakumarisforum.net/chat/ ... &start=270

I did not find in the point you have mention where it is said that - one should not expect drishti even from ShivBaba/Çhariot. Please, quote it here.

2) Now- to the point- It is not easy to reply for me, till Hindi words are found.

http://PBKs.info/Streaming/MP3/bma/scan/606.pdf

[mbbhat]

So you will sit giving drishti and if your drishnti is not that pure, you will make the other one impure also, but at least you know now.

1) You fail to understand. I never said one should give drushti 100% of the time during Yaad. Giving drushti would be not even 5% of the total duration in Yaad.
If one has no capacity to give drushti, or is not interested, there is no force. Of course, at some centres, such directions might be given, so there is still like a small force, but that will not make someone impure. He will be cautious as he is in front of many people, - these things are already said to you.

2)For example- many people travel in a rush bus, sometimes even males may touch females. Baba has said- your organs should not touch others (even between tow males, or two females or between a male and female!- the reason is there is lot of difference between stages of each, hence not recommended) while doing Yaad, etc, etc. But- then do you think travelling in such a bus makes us impure? In a bus, two persons stitting next to each other, at least the shoulder of each would be touching to one another!

3) So- the point is- understand the situation and keep your vrutti right. Baba says- as the vrutti, is the smruti, as the smruti, will be be drushti, as the drushti will be the srushti. So, go to the foundation (vrutti). PBKs never touch or explain the foundation, as they can see only corporeal, not the inner one.

I did not find in the point you have mention where it is said that - one should not expect drishti even from ShivBaba/Çhariot. Please, quote it here.

4) Please read the Murli point once again. It is marked in big red letters. "It is not that you just have to sit and look at this one"


5) Thank you for the Hindi words. If we see, it applies to the earlier days in Yagya - when no. of children were less. The Murli speaks about for the period of Amrit Vela, so likely to be at madhuban milan) .
----And- no doubt, any child cannot give sakaash as EXACTLY AS ShivBaba. So, when the Murli point says-

Tum toh aisey naheen karenge = You certainly won’t do so[/b].” (Mu.12.04.68, middle of pg.4)

it may mean no child can do(till it attains karmaateet stage) as Baba does.
And- when children do it, it will like both giving and taking(till they attain karmaateet stage), whereas when ShivBaba does, it is just giving.
---And- when Baba gives druhsti, it will be like, I am giving myself to the other/child. But, when children give drushti to each other, it will be like I am only giving drushti (power) what have received from ShivBaba, not of mine. So, there is a great difference between the two.
Even the child who approaches ShivBaba, his smruti itself will be different when he sees a nimitt sister in guddi and when it is Chariot in guddi. The receiving mode/ability of the child would be better when it is in front of Baba/Chariot than when it is any other child in front.


6) Nowadays- BapDada says- they give sakaash through Avyakt part- as already said in several Murlis. And- as time changes, even the method would change/improve, become matured.

7) The topic drushti is discussed to a great detail in this very same topic- viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2552&p=51584&hilit=drushti#p51584

[sita]

4) Please read the Murli point once again. It is marked in big red letters. "It is not that you just have to sit and look at this one"

It is about not looking the corporeal, but Shiv inside.

"Sampurn to koi bhi nahi bana hai. Sampurn ban jae phir to yahan chale javen. Jana to nahi hai." m. 12.4.64

"No one has become complete. If one becomes complete, one will go from here. One does not have to go." m. 12.4.64

We don't have to go because no one can become complete on his own. Souls will become complete through collective effort. It is not that some soul will become complete and go. Souls will have to stay here and become complete here. This is how they will lay the foundation of the new world. They don't have to leave, because they have to make even the nature pure. What if they leave when they become pure? How will nature become pure? On its own?

[mbbhat]

It would be better if PBKs give link to Hindi Murlis- and also see the adjacent sentences too.

But, the Murli what they give, is not scanned copy of the BK Murlis, it is edited by PBKs. So, cannot be said as fully right. But, still if they like, let them give the Hindi words.
--------

"Sampurn to koi bhi nahi bana hai. Sampurn ban jae phir to yahan chale javen. Jana to nahi hai." m. 12.4.64

"No one has become complete. If one becomes complete, one will go from here. One does not have to go." m. 12.4.64

As said above, it is not clear. It should be yahaan se chale jaave.

Anyhow, there is no much surprise in this. B Baba has not gone (to Paramdham). He is in Subtle Region, and comes in corporeal body of Gulzar even now with ShivBaba.

So- not even a single Murli point has supported so far.

[sita]

It would be better if PBKs give link to Hindi Murlis- and also see the adjacent sentences too.

It is the same Murli from the above, the same link as with the drishti point.

[mbbhat]

It is the same Murli from the above, the same link as with the drishti point.

As said above- It(the given link) is Murli fully/newly edited by PBKs.
It is more evident that- those who claim themselves to be so called gyaani tum PBKs are more careless than BKs while typing Murlis*. But,in this Murli- it seems that the error is just one word, and is not effective, so no problem.

Regarding the Murli point- I have already put my views in the last post.

* - It is OK, and very correct, and no surprise. Even though - PBKs may claim themselves as gyaani tu atmas, but evidently not. So- obviously they would be more careless in typing the Murlis and committing more mistakes than BKs- either physically/literally, or intellectually or emotionally. Lots of proofs are already shown.

[sita]

"जैसे बाप को भी तीन मुर्तियोँ द्वारा कार्य कराना पड़ता है। इसलिए त्रिमुर्ति का विशेष गायन और पुजन है। त्रिमुर्ति शिव कहते हो। एक बाप के तीन विशेष कार्य-कर्ता हैँ जिन द्वारा विश्व का कार्य कराते हैँ। ऐसे आप आत्मा रचयिता हो और यह तीन विशेष शक्तियाँ अर्थात त्रिमुर्ति शक्तियाँ आपके विशेष कार्यकर्ता हैँ। आप भी इन तीन रचना के रचयिता हो।" (A.V. 4.1.80)

"Just as the Father has to perform a task through three figures (murti). That's why there is a special praise and worship of the Trimurti. You say Trimurti Shiv. There are three special workers through which he performs the task of the world. In the same way you the soul is creator and these three special powers i.e. Trimurti powers are your special workers. You are also creator of these three powers." (A.V. 4.1.80)

Here it is said that there are three workers, not two and not one and that they are creation, separate to Shiva the creator.

[mbbhat]

(A.V. 4.1.80)

Here it is said that there are three workers, not two and not one and that they are creation, separate to Shiva the creator.

That is OK. BKs are yet to know about part of Shankar. BKs or myself have done only a guess work regarding Shankar.

But, the PBk Trimurti is a full failure. They claim 3, 5, or even 6 (if we add Premkanta too). - viewtopic.php?f=39&t=2593&start=135

So- PBKs have been able to take just disadvantage of the situation of BKs, but then fell into their own pit.

[sita]

"ब्र.वि.शा. को भि याद कर्ते हैँ। वह तो इन अंखोँ से देख्ने मेँ अते हैँ।"(m 19.8.73)

"(People) also remember Brahma, Vishnu and Shankar. They are visible through these eyes." (m 19.8.73)

Maybe we discussed that point. Here it is said that Brahma, Vishnu and Shankar are visible through these eyes that is the physical eyes. The actors can be seen in corporeal bodies.


= RESPONSE =

Devotees of the outer World, who have been indoctrinated by their respective bodily 'gurus', remember Brahma, Vishnu or Shankar, (having been also influenced by the existing ADULTERATED & CORRUPTED pictures & memorials of 'Rajopradhan Bhakti' & 'Tamopradhan Bhakti', which are visible to them through their physical eyes of their impure corporeal bodies), by DELUSIVELY considering that their bodily 'guru', in corporeal form, whom they can see with their physical eyes, and with whom they currently relate to, represents ANY one, or even ALL, of them (Brahma, Vishnu and/or Shankar), in 'Sakar', depending on their particular ADULTERATED or CORRUPTED belief.

The 'shooting' of same takes place in the Confluence Age, when the Godly Form of Ravan or Maya, TREACHEROUSLY TRICKS the BLIND, Unrighteous children, (by indoctrinating them, through their bodily 'guru', who is the 'mukrar-rath' of Ravan, MASQUERADING as 'ShivBaba'), and influences them to DELUSIVELY believe that their bodily 'guru' is 'Shankar', who can be seen with the physical eyes - even when REAL ShivBaba, Shiva or God has CLEARLY DECLARED that Shankar DOES NOT come to this corporeal sphere to enact any corporeal role through a corporeal body. Owing to their CORRUPTED & INVERTED intellects, they are simply UNABLE to DISCERN how the Godly Form of Ravan or Maya TRICKS them into MISINTERPRETING, MISREPRESENTING & MISAPPROPRIATING EACH & EVERY Pure Version of God, in the SMs & AVs - which they DELUSIVELY, but STAUNCHLY, believe to be the 'unlimited clarifications' of the Pure Versions of God.

The Version CLEARLY refers to the devotees of the outer World, who DO NOT have the CORRECT introduction of Brahma, Vishnu or Shankar. So, in what manner can Brahma, Vishnu or Shankar be visible to them through their physical eyes? Either through the existing ADULTERATED & CORRUPTED pictures & memorials of 'Rajopradhan Bhakti' & 'Tamopradhan Bhakti', or through their particular bodily 'guru', whom they are delusively made to believe, represents either Brahma, Vishnu or Shankar, or even ALL THREE of them, in 'Sakar'.
The EXACT 'shooting' of this aspect is carried out by the Unrighteous children and the 'mukrar-rath' of Ravan, in the Confluence Age, by interpreting or MISINTERPRETING the above Version, or similar Versions, in the REVERSE SENSE, from that, which God is ACTUALLY intending to convey! By taking ISOLATED points from the SMs, without considering the CORRECT CONTEXT in which they are spoken, within the body of the respective SM or AV, what is intended in the NEGATIVE sense, is taken in the POSITIVE sense, or vice versa, to corroborate with the particular philosophy being propagated through the 'mukrar-rath' of Ravan, which is ACTUALLY TOTALLY CONTRARY to the ORIGINAL PURE INTENT of God!

[mbbhat]

# An important post:-

"ब्र.वि.शा. को भि याद कर्ते हैँ। वह तो इन अंखोँ से देख्ने मेँ अते हैँ।"(m 19.8.73)

"(People) also remember Brahma, Vishnu and Shankar. They are visible through these eyes." (m 19.8.73)

Here it is said that Brahma, Vishnu and Shankar are visible through these eyes that is the physical eyes. The actors can be seen in corporeal bodies.

1) Reply is already given in response. baba is saying except Shiv, all or any human soul have corporeal bodies, that is all.

2) But, since PBKs like to remove nail from a nail, a Murli point itself is given.

SM 31-1-73(1):- Duniya toh Shiv ko jaanti nahin. BRAHMA Vishnu Shankar ko jante hain. Brahma ka din, Brahma ki raat bhi kahte hain.

= The world does not know about Shiv, but knows about Brahma, Vishnu and Shankar. (They) say Brama’s day and Brahma’s night.

a) Usually in PBK view- duniyaa/world means BK world. So- do PBKs believe BKs know about BVS (practically) , but not about Shiv?

b) When PBKs need to twist the Murli points, they may say- duniyaa means outside world. Let us give them even that chance as well.
In that case, do PBKs believe the outside people know about BVS (practically), but not about Shiv?

-----
Actually, Baba is pointing that- people know/think more about corporeal people/being than the incorporeal God. They have at least some idea about corporeal being, but regarding the incorporeal, they have no idea at all.

[sita]

So you accept that even Shankar has a corporeal body and is not only subtle?

The BK world knows Brahma, but they don't know Shiv, because knowing Shiv does not mean knowing point of light, but his acts and he acts through three murtis. This point applies to the PBK world, where they know Brahma, Vishnu and Shankar, but Shivjayanti is yet to come.


= RESPONSE =

The 'mukrar-rath' of Ravan, MASQUERADING as 'Shankar' & 'ShivBaba', DEFINITELY has a corporeal body, the memorial of whom exists in the outer World of Ravan Rajya in the form of DISTORTED & PERVERTED pictures, statues & images of 'Rajopradhan & Tamopradhan Bhakti'!

Body-conscious Brahmins of the Confluence Age, who are STILL NOT ABLE to consider themselves as souls, ARE NOT ABLE TO EXPERIENCE REAL ShivBaba, Shiva or God the WAY HE ACTUALLY IS - a POINT source of Luminous Spiritual Light Energy - as a result of which they REMAIN HOPELESSLY TRAPPED in the BOG of body-consciousness, and have NO OTHER RECOURSE but to DELUSIVELY believe that the Godly Form of Ravan or Maya, MASQUERADING as 'ShivBaba', is REAL ShivBaba, Shiva or God, thus DIVORCING themselves from becoming soul-conscious and ACTUALLY EXPERIENCING God the WAY HE ACTUALLY IS - a POINT source of Luminous Spiritual Light Energy - and DEPRIVING themselves from having ACCURATE & UNADULTERATED Remembrance of God, in order to be able to resolve their sinful karmic debts, thus continuing to remain impure, to eventually depend on the harsh external processes for purification and final liberation.

For 'kukh vanshavali' Brahmins of the Confluence Age, who are 'born' through the 'bogus' mouth of their bodily 'guru', and are STILL LOITERING in the 'lap' of their bodily 'guru', Shiv Jayanti has still to take place, since they have STILL NOT received the gift of the 'Third Eye of Knowledge' from God - which is the 'shooting' of the Brahmins of the outer World, who are STILL waiting, in anticipation, for God to ACTUALLY appear, while they continue to DELUSIVELY believe that their current bodily 'guru' represents God, in 'Sakar'!

You have each received the 'Third Eye of Knowledge'.