HOW 42 BIRTHS IN 1250 YEARS OF KALYUG(1250/42=29.76)??

[arjun]

according to above Av. Vani point, Soul of Lekhraj Kirpalani was perfect and complete on 21.01.1969

It was basically perfect as per the standards of basic knowledge. When the teaching by Shiva hasn't been completed how can the final result be declared?

[shivachild]

It was basically perfect as per the standards of basic knowledge. When the teaching by Shiva hasn't been completed how can the final result be declared?

Avyakt Vani dated 15.11.2011 says,"Should the button be pressed? Are you ever-ready? BapDada is asking the children. Why? Because the Father is not going to go into the kingdom. Father Brahma has to go into the kingdom. You need to become equal to the Father, and experience life with the Father, do you not? Do you have that? Are you ready? Not just you, it is a kingdom. Over whom will you rule? A kingdom is needed, is it not? Is everyone ready? Are you ready to become complete? Achcha, all of you are thinking about it. However, it is not a big deal. BapDada knows that you are all ready, but you still have to become ever-ready."


Father Brahma is already complete and waiting for 9,00000 souls to become complete. This is the reason it is mentioned in many Murlis to become EQUAL TO Father (BAP SAMAN)

Avyakt Vani dated 05.02.1977 says,:"Today, BapDada is seeing the result of every Godly student. You have completed the course, the revised course and the realisation course; what is the result of that?......So the Father also asks for the results: Have you become refined? Do you still need to do another course? What else remains after realisation? The form of the final result after realisation is liberation - that is, to be liberated from everything."

[arjun]

Father Brahma is already complete and waiting for 9,00000 souls to become complete. This is the reason it is mentioned in many Murlis to become EQUAL TO Father (BAP SAMAN)

Here the Father refers to Prajapita Brahma and not Brahma (Lekhraj Kirpalani).

[shivachild]

Here the Father refers to Prajapita Brahma and not Brahma (Lekhraj Kirpalani).

Dear Arjun,
Thanks for your clarification.
Please refer the Murli point dated 05.11.2012,:" God is the highest-on-high incorporeal Shiv Baba. He definitely enters the body of Brahma to give you the inheritance. This one is Prajapita Brahma. The Brahma who resides in the Subtle Region would not be called Prajapita (the Father of Humanity)".

This is a Sakar Murli and spoken before 1969 in the body of Lekhraj Kirpalani.
This Murli point proves that Lekhraj Kirpalani is 'Prajapita Brahma'.

[Shiv1976]

AUM SHANTI.

Sorry to interfere in the conversation.

Dear Shivachild,

Here are few Murli points which says Dada Lekraj cannot be Prajapita.

"Prajapita Zaroor yahan hi hoga|Unka anthim janm Lekraj hai|Vah to Prajapita ban nahi saktha|[Mu-21.8.73]

"Vyakt Prajapita Brahma Chagiye"[Mu-05.08.73]

"Tumko malum hai do bap hai|Do bap se varsa miltha hai|Teesra phir hota nahi|Brahma se koyi varsa thode hi milta hai|[Mu-1.2.68]


In the third point, Baba has said we will get the varsa from two Fathers. One is shiv and who is the other one if it is not Brahma? Because Baba has said in many Murlis that we will not get anything from this Brahma.Then Prajapita should be
someone else from whom we will get the varsa.

Shiv1976.

[arjun]

This Murli point proves that Lekhraj Kirpalani is 'Prajapita Brahma'.

He was just a title holder, not the real Prajapita Brahma who is supposed to be present where the praja (subjects) is.

[shivachild]

"Prajapita Zaroor yahan hi hoga|Unka anthim janm Lekraj hai|[Mu-21.8.73]

Dear Shiv1976,
The above Murli point quoted by you is another proof of Dada Lekhraj Kirpalani being the 'prajapita'.

Murli dated 20.11.2012 says,:"Where did Prajapita Brahma come from? No one can understand these things. In the last birth of Krishna, the Supreme Father, the Supreme Soul, made him His Chariot. This is not in anyone's intellect."

The above Murli point clearly indicates that 'Prajapita Brahma' is the last birth of Krishna.(Not the last birth of Ram)

[Roy]

Murli dated 20.11.2012 says,:"Where did Prajapita Brahma come from? No one can understand these things. In the last birth of Krishna, the Supreme Father, the Supreme Soul, made him His Chariot. This is not in anyone's intellect."

This point can be interpreted in a very different way... especially in combination with this point...

"Those people(i.e. the non-Brahmins of the outside world) do not understand the meaning of vaanprasth as well (as the BKs, who fudge this issue, when they speak of Brahma Baba Krishna being fifty-fiveish, or sixtyish, in 1936/7, when there is now proof that he was about 52, and thus not at the vaaprastha stage, at this time).They have to enter the vaanprastha stage; this is why they feel that they should seek a guru. They seek a guru after 60 years of age. This rule has started now (in the Confluence Age). The Father says – I become his (Prajapita-Ram's) Satguru in the vaanprastha stage (when he was 60 years old in 1936/7, in his previous birth) at the end of the many births of this one (Brahma Baba Krishna, who would be about 50 years old at this time)." [Mu 20.07.09]

Thus my interpretation of the point you have posted Shivachild Bhai is...

"Where did Prajapita Brahma come from(i.e. who did Father Shiv enter in order to adopt him in 1936... i.e. who played the part of Brahma through whom he became a mouth born progeny)?... no one can understand these things. In the last birth of Krishna(Dada Lekhraj, who was about 50-52 in 1936), the Supreme Father, the Supreme Soul, made him(Prajapita Brahma aka Ram who was in the vaaprasth stage i.e. he was 60) His Chariot (in 1936/7). This is not in anyone's intellect (before 1976)." [Mu 20.11.12]

"This Brahma(Baba Krishna) is adopted (at the beginning of the Confluence Age, in 1936/7). Brahmins are (adopted) through Prajapita Brahma(Ram)." [Mu 06.02.71]

“That one is called Prajapita Brahma(Ram), through whom the creation(child Krishna Brahma Baba) is created at the beginning. He(Prajapita-Ram) is the Great-Great Grandfather.” [Mu 03.05.72]

“Was he Prajapita, without having become a Brahmin (first)? If he is not a mouth born progeny (of Brahma himself), then how can he be Prajapita?" [no date]

[arjun]

Dear Shiv1976,
The above Murli point quoted by you is another proof of Dada Lekhraj Kirpalani being the 'prajapita'.

You are thinking of Lekhraj in a limited sense, while Baba is speaking of Lekhraj in an unlimited sense. Lekhraj means the one who writes the fortune of everyone. That is the soul of Ram and not Krishna. He was not fortunate himself to change from nar (man) to Narayan. How can he write the fortune of others?

By the way, you repeatedly say that Dada Lekhraj is Prajapita Brahma. And Murlis say that Prajapita should be with the praja. So, where according to you is Dada Lekhraj in corporeal form (in his own body and not that of Ram's soul) so that he could be proved as Prajapita Brahma?

[Roy]

By the way, you repeatedly say that Dada Lekhraj is Prajapita Brahma. And Murlis say that Prajapita should be with the praja. So, where according to you is Dada Lekhraj in corporeal form (in his own body and not that of Ram's soul) so that he could be proved as Prajapita Brahma?

"Ask those false Brahmins(of the Confluence Age, who haven't yet recognised the incognito part of Father, being played through the corporeal Father, Prajapita-Ram, since 1969/70) - If you are (true or complete) Brahmins, if you call yourselves mouth-born Brahmins, then who is your Father Brahma (who should be here with you in practical corporeal form, until the end)?” [Mu 08.12.84]

"Brahma(Baba Krishna) who has ascended to the Subtle Regions (in 1968/9), cannot be called Prajapita(Father Brahma) - Creation is done(completed) in the Corporeal World, not in the Subtle Regions. So the creator Prajapita has to be in the Corporeal World (until the task of creating the New World is completed at the end)." [Mu 05.11.92]

"Do you think that we should also leave the body and become Avyakt (like Brahma Baba Krishna did, in 1968/9)? Do not follow in this matter. Father Brahma(Prajapita-Ram, after intensely studying the Murli for 5-6 years, from 1969/70) became Avyakt (i.e. renounced the corporeal world intellectually, whilst still in the body, in 1976) so that you could see the example of the (practical) Avyakt form, and follow easily." [Av 13.03.81]

[warrior]

The above Murli point quoted by you is another proof of Dada Lekhraj Kirpalani being the 'prajapita'.

If Prajapita would have died in 1969 the eternal cycle would have ended there also. Without Adam the drama has no chance to continue, it is necessary for him to be here at this time in person to give continuation to the cycle. If you say that Lekhraj was Prajapita you are also saying that the entire knowledge is fake and of no use.
Adam and the seed souls got to remain here to give continuation to this cycle.

[Roy]

If Prajapita would have died in 1969 the eternal cycle would have ended there also. Without Adam the drama has no chance to continue, it is necessary for him to be here at this time in person to give continuation to the cycle. If you say that Lekhraj was Prajapita you are also saying that the entire knowledge is fake and of no use.Adam and the seed souls got to remain here to give continuation to this cycle.

"Prajapita Brahma is also anadi(without beginning - the all-round soul, who stays in the cycle in corporeal form for the full 5000 years). Father of all the souls (Shiv) has come in him(Prajapita, in the very beginning of the Confluence Age, in 1936/7). He(Father Shiv) has to come and adopt the (first class child) Brahma(Baba Krishna, in 1936/7, through Prajapita)." [Mu 19.07.73; 20.07.78]

[shivachild]

Dear Arjun,Dear Roy, Dear Worrior and Dear Shiv1976,
All of you have raised very logical queries. Let us accept for a while that Virendra Dev Dixit is 'Prajapita Brahma'.
Please refer the following Murli point dated 16.02.2009,"They do not know Prajapita Brahma at all. They have heard the name of Prajapita Brahma, but they do not know as to what they get from him. There is a temple of Brahma. He is depicted with a moustache. But nobody remembers him because inheritance is not to be received from him. The souls receive inheritance either from the worldly (lokik) Father or from the other worldly (paarlokik) Father. Nobody knows Prajapita Brahma at all. Although they say Prajapita but there is no inheritance to be received from him. This one is also a student like us."

I have following questions in my mind.
1) No need to remember Prajapia Brahma=Ram=Shankar=Virendra Dev Dixit as no inheritance is received from him.But there is a lot of praise to Shankar?
And 'Nobody remembers him' better suits to Dada Lekhraj Kirpalani. As there is only one temple of Brahma in the whole world.

2)Virendra Dev Dixit is a student is not accepted. But Dada Lekhraj Kirpalani is student can be accepted.
Is Virendra Dev Dixit also a student as per teachings of AIVV?

[Roy]

I have following questions in my mind.
1) No need to remember Prajapia Brahma=Ram=Shankar=Virendra Dev Dixit as no inheritance is received from him. But there is a lot of praise to Shankar?
And 'Nobody remembers him' better suits to Dada Lekhraj Kirpalani. As there is only one temple of Brahma in the whole world.
2)Virendra Dev Dixit is a student is not accepted. But Dada Lekhraj Kirpalani is student can be accepted. Is Virendra Dev Dixit also a student as per teachings of AIVV?

My opinions on these matters are as follows...

1) No one need remember Brahma Baba Krishna as no inheritance is received from him... but the inheritance is received through Prajapita Brahma and so he should be remembered as the corporeal Father... the permanent Chariot of Father Shiv... through whom the roles of Shankar and Ram are also played.

"Creator (of Heaven) is not said for Brahma(Baba Krishna)." [Mu 13.02.75]

"Prajapita Brahma is also called creator (of Heaven)." [Mu 26.7.77]

"Brahma(Baba Krishna) is not the Creator of Heaven. Only the Incorporeal Supreme Soul (Shiv) comes and creates Heaven through Prajapita Brahma(Ram)." [Mu 02.12.03]

"Shiva is Incorporeal Father, Prajapita Brahma is corporeal Father. Now(i.e. from 1976) you (true Brahmins) are obtaining the inheritance from the Incorporeal Father (Shiv) through the corporeal (Father, Prajapita Brahma aka Ram)." [Mu 14.01.00]

"The Supreme Soul is Incorporeal. He gives (the practical) inheritance of (Heaven) to his children, only through the corporeal Father (Prajapita-Ram). " [Mu 31.01.75]

"ShivBaba bestows the inheritance to Brahmakumaris and Brahmakumars, through (the corporeal Father) Prajapita Brahma(Ram). ShivBaba creates the Brahmin race through (the mother) Brahma(Baba Krishna)." [Mu 01.03.76]

"Incorporeal God Father (Shiv) cannot do any work without the corporeal Father (Prajapita Brahma aka Ram)... He cannot play any role (without his corporeal body, from 1969/70)." [Mu 06.02.76]

"Ram’s Kingdom(Ramraj-Heaven) can be obtained only through Ram(Prajapita Brahma)." [Mu 17.07.72]

2) Until Virendra Dev Dixit ji becomes complete, he is still a student imo. He may also be a teacher himself, but there is only one Supreme teacher and that is Father Shiv... playing the role of Shankar through Virendra Dev Dixit ji's body.

"There (at Amarnath, where the ice Shivalingam is situated in the Cave shrine), they show the picture of Shiv. Well, in whom is Shiv sitting? Shiv and Shankar are shown. Shiv sat in Shankar(Prajapita-Ram) and narrated the story (to Parvati or Sita - meaning His true children). This is the account(i.e. the eternal relationship of Shiv and Shankar in the Drama). This is completely wrong... (that) he sat on the mountain and narrated the story only to one Parvati, and only she went to the abode of eternity. It is so 100% wrong." [Mu 06.10.76]

“(Shiv)Baba has been to Amarnath as well. Baba saw everything as to how they make the Shivling (naturally in ice). They say that Shankar narrated a story to Parvati there. Well what kind of degradation did Parvati undergo that he sat and narrated the story to her? Actually, you all are Parvatis; you pass through the cycle of birth and death(i.e. pass through the cycle of faith and doubt in the Confluence Age)... and you are listening to the story(i.e the Advance Knowledge, narrated through Shankar) to achieve true salvation(liberation from ignorance and doubts).” [Mu 05.09.08]

[mbbhat]

A similar question was raised in one of the recent discussion CDs where Baba replied that the soul of Dada Lekhraj had become basically karmaateet, i.e. he had inculcated the basic knowledge that was narrated through his body till 1969, but since he did not have the complete knowledge (as being taught to the PBKs) he cannot be said to be complete. As long as he continues to narrate Avyakt Vani through Dadi Gulzar it can be said that he is still studying from ShivBaba (through Baba Veerendra Dev Dixit).

New interpretation!

I believe karmaateet stage means attachment free stage. But, for PBKs, it seems something different.

What is basically karmateet? So- can we say all the PBKs have already crossed this "basically karmaateet" stage? And- the final stage according to PBKs would be like - advanced karmaateet staget?

It said here in this forum that Mr. Dixit had slapped, that too during Amrit Vela to some sister. And- PBKs believe it is due to karmic account of Bbaba. Now, can a soul which be called as basically karmaateet as per PBK philosophy?

Would PBKs like to differentiate between basically karmaateet and advanced karmaateet stages?