Kamla Dixit

[arjun]

now, does Jagadamba come in the first 2.25 lakh of PBK category and get the status similar to direct Nar se Narayan? What i mean to say- is- does her same body rejuvenates into deity?

It has been clarified by ShivBaba that Jagdamba will leave her body and take rebirth to get her body rejuvenated due to her sanskars of Bhakti.

That wish was: "please, be so kind and help me to understand and see the Truth - support your thesis and predictions with evidence".

Evidence for all the statements cannot be produced at once. It takes time. Nobody has been prevented from doing research and studying the Godly knowledge deeply and to discuss the same with ShivBaba through email, on phone or in person. But your wish was something else as per my knowledge.

Once again I can say based on my experience that PBKs cannot understand people's feelings; they are unable to understand others and unable to see that they may cause damage. They only see enemies around - who is not with us is against us! While in this world the enemy doesn't exist without his creator.

AIVV can understand your feelings only if you reveal your identity to AIVV (not here on this forum); we don't treat anyone as enemies; this is your imagination. It is you who treat us as enemies. That is why you wish to malign us while being safe in anonymity and keep changing your identity on this forum. Only a proper investigation can reveal the truth about your allegations.

[mbbhat]

1) I have already presented in other topic my experience in London Gita Patshala and how the mother there treated me. She refused to narrate to me the full course unless I signed the letter of faith. She also said that I would not be allowed to take part in a class (watching video) unless I signed the letter of faith.

This was not in my case. i was allowed to watch video even without signing the letter of faith. But, I had observed one thing.

i had seen videos at two Gita pathashalas. in one, one of the members got a little bit confused or upset as if, it is not correct to permit me to watch it . But, I cannot say because I had not paid much attention to it.

I saw how Sisters in centers were trained to give the Trimurti class - mostly they learnt books published in AIVV by heart or wrote and repeated word by word what the Senior Sister narrated. When someone ask a difficult question, they were unable to explain.

I also feel so in my observation. Many PBKs cannot explain the knowledge. An important point to be noted. [But, the reason is simple- One has to interpret and interpret in different ways and different ways and ...and....]

[mbbhat]

It has been clarified by ShivBaba that Jagdamba will leave her body and take rebirth to get her body rejuvenated due to her sanskars of Bhakti.

I still did not get it. Does it mean that Jagadamba will leave body (quite enough before final destruction) and take rebirth and then once again come to AIVV and is that body becomes pure directly so that she comes in 2.25 lakh souls?

or is she out of the 2.25 lakh souls whose Bhakti is not going to get completed till the end. [A great failure indeed. ]

But, in any of these, I think- then it is an additional responsibility of PBKs to inform even this one (that their Jagadamba is going to shed body) before getting the letter of faith, because the first and basic temptation/aim in PBK knowledge itself is - "your present body is not likely to get destroyed".

Then what is there in her to be worshiped through out the year as the one who fulfills desires of all? OK, I had asked this. But, this is now an additional point of failure/weakness to be added in that list.

If she is within 2.25 lakh fortune PBKs, then is her rank No. is 12 ? Or is she out of the rudramala of 108 souls?

[Larena]

But your wish was something else as per my knowledge.

You have wrong knowledge.

we don't treat anyone as enemies; this is your imagination

Listen more carefuly to Murlis, become an observer and you will stop accusing me that I image.
Yes, I think that you not only call and treat some people as enemies, but you also teach this.

[fluffy bunny]

I think- then it is an additional responsibility of PBKs to inform even this one (that their Jagadamba is going to shed body) before getting the letter of faith, because the first and basic temptation/aim in PBK knowledge itself is - "your present body is not likely to get destroyed".

Did the Lekhraj Kirpalani/or the god of the BKs inform its followers that Om Radhe was going to shed her body before Destruction?

No, it used to say (just like they did for the dead Dadis) that she would be with them right until the end. Then she died early and now they say she did so because her seva/karma was incomplete.

Therefore Kamla Dixit has to leave too and die spiritually ... I suppose that is the logic. You have to blame the BKWSU.

The difference between the BKs and the PBKs is that because Om Radhe is dead, and the majority of the BKs never met her, she can be re-invented as a perfect guru-saint figure instead of the sick, stupid, repressed, brainwashed girl she was. What a mess she made of herself by the end.

You don't know the whole truth of Om Radhe yet. Trust me, more is to come out in Drama about her.

• "People in glass houses should not throw stones" ...
  
  (This means that people or organizations should not criticize other people or organizations for problems or bad qualities in their character that you have yourself. They should remove their own faults first. That is even Gyan).

[mbbhat]

Did the Lekhraj Kirpalani/or the god of the BKs inform its followers that Om Radhe was going to shed her body before Destruction?

There the incident had not happened. There, no one was aware of that (Mama will leave body) till 1965. It was a test for the whole of BKs.

But, here, the incident had already occurred. Kamala Devi had left by 1998 itself, many PBKs know that. But they have hidden it.

But- There is a clear Murli point about that even brahma will die before destruction. I had put it in the thread created by you - the history of Advance Party. you may check there. [It says- Mama, Baba and very best children will go in advance]

And, there is one more Murli point- where the children had said- let even Brahma die, we will continue. It is in the year 1969 Avyakt Murli where Baba reminded children as if- Arey- you were ready to bear situation even without Brahma Baba from the beginning itself- Now, why are you upset.

I have read one more Murli point, that Brahma Baba will die before . but, presently i do not have date.

[arjun]

I still did not get it. Does it mean that Jagadamba will leave body (quite enough before final destruction) and take rebirth and then once again come to AIVV and is that body becomes pure directly so that she comes in 2.25 lakh souls?

Yes.

Then what is there in her to be worshiped through out the year as the one who fulfills desires of all? OK, I had asked this. But, this is now an additional point of failure/weakness to be added in that list.

Keep on collecting others' weaknesses in your mind. Good.

[fluffy bunny]

There the incident had not happened. There, no one was aware of that (Mama will leave body) till 1965 ...

The issue is about failed or false predictions. The god of the BKs and BKWSU leaders predict Mama and the various Dadis would be with them "until the End" ... and yet they died before hand.

The PBKs and their leader predicted Kamla would return ... and yet she did not.

You cannot claim an exception for the BKs on the basis that it "was a test", without allowing the PBKs the same exception that it is a "test" for them too.

Therefore, both religions and their leaders make predictions which do not come true, what do we learn from this?

• a) Do not make predictions
  b) Do not make life decision on the basis of other people's predictions, not even if they claim to be God or God inspired.
  c) It is unethical to manipulate other people with false predictions, especially when you know that they have failed in the past.
  d) Always admit previous mistakes or failed predictions because they will come back to damage your credibility in the future.

Personally, I think the "Baba is testing us" excuse is just about the most pathetic yukti or excuse the BKs use.

Why not just tell the truth? "Our god and leaders are wrong sometimes".

Mbbhat, you cannot accuse others, and try to make them look bad, if you and your religion does the same yourself.

I hope Kamla is happy in her new life and that her child grows up to be healthy and successful.

[Roy]

I hope Kamla is happy in her new life and that her child grows up to be healthy and successful.

Well said!

[Larena]

I would add to what fb wrote:

It is unethical to claim "we narrate knowledge" while someone doesn't even narrate a hypothesis. Even a hypothesis must be build on verified facts. The main pillar of AIVV is the Trimurti class. Since 1976, for 36 years after announcing the story of Sevak Ram and his wife, they have been unable to provide students with any hard facts, any evidence which could support what they claimed. On the contrary, they story keeps becoming more and more unclear, while they keep saying that facts cannot be known at this time, they will be known in the future. I will repeat the same question again and again: "what was the basis of these all claims concerning Sevak Ram in the Trimurti?"

I will repeat another question again and again "How can someone announce something that he calls KNOWLEDGE without proper support of evidence?"

I would be honest if they called it "our ideas","our something like hypothesis", "our whishes" "our imagination" or simply "dogma".

But they make predictions, indicate dates, actions, and when prediction doesn't come true, they like to say "it was the unlimited language of Baba" ---- yes, fortune tellers also use unlimited and general language, so that their predictions would come true regardless of the real situation.

I don't believe they will ever admit that they did something wrong or made a mistake. They cannot even admit that someone may suffer because of them. I read the letter left by Mrs Kamla few times. As far as I remember there were two letters. Her mother gave me to read something from her daughter too. In one letter Mrs Kamla stated "I was forced by my mother; I was surrendered againts my will" ---- is not it an expression of possible pain and suffering and fear experienced by a young girl? But in AIVV language the act of surrending of Mrs Kamla is called "Mothers from Delhi pushed her to become courageous to make this step".

I saw the mother of Mrs Kamla many times. She wanted to talk to me - so we met few times. She displayed behaviour of a mentaly unstable person ----- I saw her attacking verbaly people arround. Once she attacked me in front of few girls from the center and abused me very bad. Another time she tried to control what I wrote in my notebooks. I did not keep any bad feeling towards her for what she did. I became more scared after those incidents, but there was nobody who could understand what I talked about. They keep telling me "Baba is testing us".

[warrior]

She is closer than you think.

[Larena]

She is closer than you think.

Closer to what?
Closer to whom?
Closer than when?
Closer how?
What does closer mean?
What evidence for that she is closer?
Why is she closer?
Was she farther?
When is she closer?

In short ------------ FACTS. You claim something, but don't give facts.

[Roy]

Dear Larena

When it comes to your situation i make no judgements, and from what you say you went through some very challenging experiences which i understand have had a profound affect on you... However, may i ask how you came to become a PBK, and where you a BK before this? What particularly pulled you towards Baba, and made you want to leave your old life totally behind? Was there a profound realisation through knowledge or something else? I don't wish to judge your experience, but i wish to understand more clearly where you are coming from; and if you still have any faith at all, in the knowledge that has been narrated through Virendra Dev Dixit ji since 1976?

Roy

[Larena]

Dear Larena

When it comes to your situation i make no judgements, and from what you say you went through some very challenging experiences which i understand have had a profound affect on you... However, may i ask how you came to become a PBK, and where you a BK before this? What particularly pulled you towards Baba, and made you want to leave your old life totally behind? Was there a profound realisation through knowledge or something else? I don't wish to judge your experience, but i wish to understand more clearly where you are coming from; and if you still have any faith at all, in The Knowledge that has been narrated through Veerendra Dev Dixit ji since 1976?

Roy

Yes you can.

What pull me to BKs first (I was chucked out of them) and later to PBKs was tha word "knowledge" and their claim "we give you the true knowledge while the rest of the world give you lies". What particularly pulled me in PBKs was their claim that "they narrate Gyan based on proofs, not like BKs". I desired to know so much, and I desired the True Master so much that I was ready to suffer any inconvenience. I thought that deeply in heart that the Teacher in AIVV is that Master. I thought so based on video recording and relations of contractors. When I came to know directly him, the way he talks to a student, the way he answers questions, the way explains pradictions which turned to be false, the way he treated parents of the girl that died from TB, the way he communicates, I lost faith in God at all. I need facts. And I repeated to him many times. If someone claims that in 500 BCE something did not exist and something else existed, let him show evidence. The entire religious world claim something. What AIVV does is not different from what they Bhakti - announcement and false predictions and no evidence. My experience in AIVV destroyed my faith in any other religious path and in AIVV itself. I experienced that AIVV abused my faith, engagement and deceived me. The letters from them and recorded my discussions with Baba, files with years of notes from studying contain everything what caused it.

[arjun]

"what was the basis of these all claims concerning Sevak Ram in the Trimurti?"

Murlis and Avyakt Vanis.

In one letter Mrs Kamla stated "I was forced by my mother; I was surrendered againts my will" ---- is not it an expression of possible pain and suffering and fear experienced by a young girl? But in AIVV language the act of surrending of Mrs Kamla is called "Mothers from Delhi pushed her to become courageous to make this step".

I cannot comment on this, but in India BK/PBK parents of BK and PBK sisters do encourage/persuade them to surrender thinking that their daughters will earn a great fortune by serving God. And this fact has been acknowledge several times by ShivBaba (through Baba Virendra Dev Dixit) in many discussion CDs.

I saw the mother of Mrs Kamla many times. She wanted to talk to me - so we met few times. She displayed behaviour of a mentaly unstable person ----- I saw her attacking verbaly people arround. Once she attacked me in front of few girls from the center and abused me very bad. Another time she tried to control what I wrote in my notebooks. I did not keep any bad feeling towards her for what she did. I became more scared after those incidents, but there was nobody who could understand what I talked about. They keep telling me "Baba is testing us".

She has been displaying this mental instability since more than a decade and therefore most PBKs do not take her comments seriously.