Kamla Dixit

[Larena]

I don't expect him to speak English. It is his choice to speak or not to speak English. Anybody can learn any foreign language at any age up to the level he wants.

It was probably my luck that I met Indians who were diglossic.

Until then we can only say that these are our beliefs.

Tell me, if you can, what is a diffence between this belief and Bhakti? Unless we can call it "knowledge" (and we obviously cannot), it is pure Bhakti imo.

And what will AIVV do with those old predictions? There are more that two unfulfilled predictions.

[Roy]

You should understand that he has not studied in English medium schools or colleges. So, if you expect him to be speaking English then it is unfair. He admits his inability to speak English. He says that one can learn a language well only if he moves around with people speaking that language. There are Sakar Murli points which say that this Chariot knows a little English.

"Baba(Shiv) has not studied English so much. You will say that Baba does not know that much of English. Baba says, well, how far I can learn all the languages. Main (language) is Hindi, so I narrate Murli in Hindi. The soul whose body I have entered (to play the role of Father, from 1969), knows only Hindi(Prajapita-Ram speaks only Hindi; whereas Brahma Baba spoke only Sindhi to begin with)." [Mu 26.11.73]

"Father keeps explaining only in Hindi. There are a lot of languages, isn’t it? Interpreters are also there, who listen and then narrate. Many people know Hindi and English… There was one kingdom and one language in the Golden Age, which is being established again now." [Mu 26.07.05]

Tell me, if you can, what is a diffence between this belief and Bhakti? Unless we can call it "knowledge" (and we obviously cannot), it is pure Bhakti imo.

It could be argued, that until there is absolute knowing or realisation, then everything else is Bhakti to some extent!

And what will AIVV do with those old predictions? There are more that two unfulfilled predictions.

The thing i have noticed about the official predictions in the Murlis(not speculative ones by the children, or the BKs since 1969, which we can all happily ignore) like the one for 1976 destruction, and even those since then in the PBK Yagya; is that they are subtle in nature... Souls even now seem to think that these predictions are more practical in nature, and that they have failed when some practical manifestation doesn't occur. These are often predictions about the subtle goings on in the minds and intellects of effort maker souls; not necessarily about gross physical acts. Of course this cannot be the case for ever, as the Confluence Age only lasts for 100 years... and thus in the next few years, more practical proofs will begin to emerge, of the teachings of the BKIVV(up to 1969) and AIVV(since 1976).

[arjun]

I don't expect him to speak English. It is his choice to speak or not to speak English. Anybody can learn any foreign language at any age up to the level he wants.

It was probably my luck that I met Indians who were diglossic.

Larena, I have already stated that Baba Virendra Dev Dixit has admitted his inability to speak English. He also admits that he can understand English spoken by Indians but he is not so comfortable in understanding the English spoken by the foreigners. May be he will learn English when he starts interacting with more and more English speaking PBKs. Now he gets to interact with them on very few occasions in a year.

I agree that anyone can learn foreign language at any age, but the results depend on the interest shown, the need and the teacher as well. As far as I know (or you could as as far as my assumption goes) you are not an English speaking person. You learnt English. Then, when you became a PBK you learnt Hindi (both to read and write and to translate from Hindi to English). And ShivBaba (through Baba Virendra Dev Dixit) recognized your ability and praised you indirectly in numerous Murlis and Discussion CDs. But probably drama willed otherwise.

[fluffy bunny]

Just as predictions have gross and subtle level, so have religions.

There is what the religion says it is, and then there is what it actually is, e.g. the BKs say they believe in the predictions and they are important but, in truth, they don't and aren't.

For the BKs, what is important is unquestioning mental submission and conformity to the leaders, and whatever they say. What they say can be changed, hidden, forgotten at any time. Perhaps it is the same with the PBKs but at a more subtle level, e.g. Virendra Dev Dixit has to make up a more convincing re-interpretation to stay loyal to the actual teachings ... whereas the BKs are plainly disloyal to the actual teachings.

Why can neither side just admit they were wrong?

I suppose it is only a matter of time before the Kamla Party (or Radhe Party?) starts ...

[Larena]

The so called subtle level, the unlimited language are great covers, imo. They can cover eveything what turns to be uncomfortable, predicted wrong, generalised, put in stereotypes. The PBK classes such as Kalpa Tree, World Drama are full of them. Religions, countries, people have been simply labeled. Example: Buddhists - the main characteristics - cowardly purity, meaning they are unble to chalenge an enemy, an invader and are ready to surrender their families to enemies easily . Main Buddhist countries: China, Japan.

Now, go and study Chinese and Japanese history and you will see how ready to surrender they are and how cowardly they are. Go and live in those countries and you will see how cowardly they are. Totally on the contrary. So, those claims and statements were built on what? Imo, on imagination full of stereotypes, because there is no real direct experience behind.

[arjun]

They may have learnt martial arts later on based on their experiences in India where they remained mute spectators when the Muslim invaders plundered the ancient Nalanda University and burnt all the precious books.

[Larena]

They may have learnt martial arts later on based on their experiences in India where they remained mute spectators when the Muslim invaders plundered the ancient Nalanda University and burnt all the precious books.

Don't you find similar examples for Hindu bahavior? Or in any other religion?

Nalanda burnt in XII AD. Chinese and Japanese martial art develop centuries earlier and Buddhists came there much earlier. What do you want to prove?

[fluffy bunny]

Don't you find similar examples for Hindu bahavior?

It heading 'off topic' from the subject of Kamla Dixit but if the "broad drama" is a reflection of the "shooting age" ... the metaphorical Hindus should at some point become indebted to the metaphorical Sikhs for kicking metaphorical Moslem (Mogul) ass.

Arguably, if it were not for the Sikhs and the establishment of the Sikh Empire, there would be no Hindu India as we know it today.

(Apologies for the simplistic summary of history)

Although we can see influence of Sikhism on the development of the Brahma Kumaris (from who ... Nirwair or were there others?), I have not seen much talk about them within the Knowledge/Advance Knowledge.

[mbbhat]

larena wrote:
"what was the basis of these all claims concerning Sevak Ram in the Trimurti?"

Arjun replied:
"Murlis and Avyakt Vanis."

In fact, there is no mention of Sevakram either in Murlis or Vanis. The name of Sevakram is mentioned just in BK literature.

PBKs say- trance messages are not authentic. But, is the BK literature authentic to them?

Another point is- So- the foundation of PBKs lies in Murlis and Vanis and not just on the words of their god Father physically with them.

They depend totally on adulterated things (they say- Sakar Murli is infected by wrong words of DL, Avyakt Vani is of DL].

Will they still depend on those until end (since they believe as in the beginning, so in the end- one step ahead of BKs- means in physical things and persons)? Drama.

[fluffy bunny]

When Lekhraj Kirpalani spoke the Murlis, he was speaking to a very small community of people who had known each other for decades and gone through a shared experience ... I mean, how many were there at the end of the beggary period in Madhuban? 60 or 70? Or was it even less? (I cannot remember and would like reminded).

Lekhraj Kirpalani referred to many individuals, places and times using casual or codified references, as we all do in our own lives. He had no need to name anyone all the time ... and, of course, the BKs have chopped the Murlis to pieces and so we no longer know what they originally said.

It is these casual or codified references which Virendra Dev Dixit and the PBKs are attempting to understand and place emphasis on.

Even the god spirit of the BKs has often talked about picking up subtle hints and subtle meanings, and how only a few truly understand.

You don't and even if you did you would not admit it because, for some strange reason, all you want to do is put the PBKs down.

There is some truth about the BKs and BK history in what the PBKs teach. More than the BKs have been teaching.

• (The Anti-Party is within the BKWSU).

[Larena]

mbhat, understand that PBKs maintain that the role of God through Mr Virendra Dev Dixit is the role of the highest teacher. It means, as that Teacher explains, that God explains the true meaning of words spoken earlier through Dada Lekhraj. He, God, through Mr Virendra Dev Dixit reads the text of Murlis to students and clarifies their meaning. This is clear and consistent imo.

I would ask:
Why do those explanations shake so much and depend so much on circumstances? Why did many of the Teacher's predictions remain unfullfilled in their time? Why does the Teacher clarify the same topics in contradictory and mutually exclusive way?

So far AIVV has not become ready to admit their mistakes. They haven't admit that their explanations full of contradictions, allogies, ambiguities and even in obvious conflict with historic documents (which they desired to have) are misleading for students and may cause serious damage.


fb- in AIVV it was taught that there were app 60-80 of them in Madhuban at that time. 60-80 ---- this is how it was taught,

[mbbhat]

1)You don't and even if you did you would not admit it because, for some strange reason, all you want to do is put the PBKs down.

2)There is some truth about the BKs and BK history in what the PBKs teach. More than the BKs have been teaching.

There is no need to admit anything in our life if we have not caused any harm to others. Only thing is- you should not bring down the level of self esteem of a person. Non violence is the highest religion. [and- we also know that- majority of BKs are still in ignorance about these literal figures and facts. So- that is drama- just 108 are going to pass].

My aim is not to put PBKs down. It is they who call BKs as kouravas, and still depend on 2.25 lakh souls from BK side! . But PBKs are attached to Murlis to such an extent that- even their god is dependent on these scriptures of kouravas (BKs). And, they call them as base for truth! So- I just added that comment.

See how you write! I have never used or expected some one to admit something. But you do.

My reply is to PBKs is just rebound to their questions, accusations towards BK side.


2) So- now, our truth seeker may be interested in relative truth than absolute truth? God knows.

Anyhow, if more is discussed on this, we may go off topic. So- sorry or left to you.

[fluffy bunny]

BKs are not dependent of lowkik scriptures like PBKs are dependent on Murlis. But PBKs are attached to Murlis to such an extent that- even their god is dependent on these scriptures of kouravas (BKs).

That's not logical at all mbbhat. It's just another twisted insult based on false logic.

According to their understanding, the PBKs and the BKs are part of the same family, under the same God, sharing the same scripture.

You fail to make any point and show your own self to be stupid again.

As Larena say, what they are saying is that the god of the BKs clarifies the teachings contained within the Murlis through Virendra Dev Dixit.

Your logic fails because it is based on false premises. Really, if you want to be successful, you should study logic and how to think.


Mostly, I think the BKs are so upset with idea of "God" speaking through Virendra Dev Dixit because Virendra Dev Dixit is a poor, simple, not very handsome man (as the Murlis say he should be). The BKs have become so vain and arrogant about their rich, high status now and suffer from reverse chauvinism.

IMO, there is also an element of Sindhi snobbery within their religion. They would feel just as angry if it were a poor Punjabi or Gujerati woman, never mind a dark skinned Indian from the south or a Dalit.

I am not saying he is 100% correct but Virendra Dev Dixit embarrasses the BKs intellectually and shows up the anomalies and contradictions in the BKs' understanding of the Knowledge. The BKs don't like this, hence why their leaders instruct their followers not to think and not to question.

Could "god" work through Virendra Dev Dixit, a Dalit or a Dravidian? Why not ...

[arjun]

It is they who call BKs as kouravas

Show me a single post where I have called BKs as Kauravas. Just as ShivBaba through Brahma Baba calls the outside world as Kauravas, similarly ShivBaba through Baba Virendra Dev Dixit says that those who follow Shrimat are Pandavas and those who violate Shrimat are Kauravas. It is upto you to decide who is violating Shrimat and who is not.

I have never used or expected some one to admit something.

Big lie. You keep insulting people with bad words if someone doesn't reply to you or if anyone replies to you partially.

[fluffy bunny]

Just as ShivBaba through Brahma Baba calls the outside world as Kauravas, similarly ShivBaba through Baba Veerendra Dev Dixit says that those who follow Shrimat are Pandavas and those who violate Shrimat are Kauravas. It is upto you to decide who is violating Shrimat and who is not.

Lekhraj Kirpalani used to call the entire outside world shudras, when there were only 60 or 80 "Brahmins" (and not all of them were full brahmins).

Mbbhat will argue it is OK for BKs to call non-BKs "shudras", it just depends on understanding what "Shudra" means ... but he cannot apply the same logic to what Virendra Dev Dixit or the PBKs are saying.

It's always the same, one set of standards for the BKs, a different one for the PBKs. He's frustrated that despite all the attempts the BKs have made to crack them, the PBKs still have faith and some good understandings.