Mbbhat on problems in knowledge arise from space exploration

[fluffy bunny]

From: Re: MBBhat on the term Hindu

With 1,000 of tonnes of metal being shot far out into distance space, recent space exploration provides a number of problems for the Knowledge.

How does the knowledge deal with it? A number of countries have left items on the Moon and Mars and sent satellites out beyond Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, Neptune.

Sure ... but apply logic. The metal of that spaceship has to return to earth and become ore deep within the planet so it can be dug up, made into a rocket and then fired back to Mars again next Kalpa. In an "eternity of Kalpas", all of the metal in earth would end up on Mars.

Sorry. you did not understand at all. I said the metal ship at Mars can get destroyed there itself. what is the need to return to earth. You cannot understand such simple things.

I think you mean, "You will not accept such simplistic answers". That is correct.

I was once like you. I remember how they make BKs think, and how, as a BK, one runs defends BKism at ever turn.

However, think it through ...

• Every Kalpa is identical.
  They repeat for eternity.
  Therefore, if 100 tonnes of rare metals leaves Earth and arrives at Mars to be destroyed, each Kalpa the Earth becomes 100 tonnes lighter and Mars 100 heavier (not identical ... I am making this simple for you).

However, there are only so many tonnes of rare metals. Eventually, after a few hundred or 1,000 Kalpas, all of the rare metals will be used up, and be sitting on now heavier Mars (not identical). Different problems arises.
How do the rare metal magically disappear on Mars, and how do the rare metal magically appear on Earth?

Actually, it should be 're-appear' because for the Kalpa to be identically the same down to the molecule. The rare metals have to travel back through space, spread themselves all over the world and bury themselves underground exactly how they were found last Kalpa. Otherwise, we should be able to find this huge pile of metal of Mars.

I guess you say ... "it does not matter, it is not our job to work out; we just have Yoga and some scientist in the Advance Party will fix it". I understand.

It is a question of credibility. "Extraordinary Claims require extraordinary evidence". The BKWSU does not even have a theory. If you don't read books or newspapers you won't know about these things, you will know only Baba, Baba, Baba which is what they want to control you.

Don't think, don't question, apply a fullstop ...

Then you may say what food we have eaten and had come out as stool from large intestine should return back through the same place and come out from mouth. sorry to say this- but to make you understand , what can be done?

This example does not work because everything stays on Earth to be "purified" in nuclear wars, ice ages, land movement etc.

[mbbhat]

How do the rare metal magically disappear on Mars, and how do the rare metal magically appear on Earth?

I think- you do not know even 10% of basic science or do not know the drama repetition concept what BKWSU believes/says or both. I have explained thrice and still you did not get it.

1)By radiation, energy can be left from one planet to other, and 2)mass can be converted into energy and vice versa. 3) And any element can get transformed into another just by change in atomic structure. It is very simple. In fact, scientists had tried to transform other metals into gold and have even succeeded. Their aim was to create more gold. But, the cost of transformation was more than the gold! Hence their effort (to create more gold) was not useful.

So- in the end time of destruction, anything can happen in any planet.

Actually, it should be 're-appear' because for the Kalpa to be identically the same down to the molecule. The rare metals have to travel back through space, spread themselves all over the world and bury themselves underground exactly how they were found last Kalpa. Otherwise, we should be able to find this huge pile of metal of Mars

.
Your wrong imagination due to poor/wrong knowledge. Same down to the molecule means the same thing should be repetitive in every Kalpa and does not mean that they should return back physically.

There is no need to bring those metals back. Only thing is- it should be restored.

If we think- everything has to return back, then even the purification of process should go back physically from iron to copper taking 42 births in reverse order, copper to silver by taking 21 births, and so on.

So- what can happen is- the metal space ship sent to Mars from earth will destroy their itself and can take any form and can be transformed even to mud of that planet. The increase in mass/weight there due to this will be restored by radiation from that planet. That is all. and any star or small planet or pieces can fall and merge with some other planet (to compensate the loss of mass if any).

This example does not work because everything stays on Earth to be "purified" in nuclear wars, ice ages, land movement etc.

It is due to your incapability of not able to understand. To be purified does not imply that the metal space ship has to be brought back to earth. What is present, they need to be purified. That is all. And in the near end of next Kalpa, metal should be available on earth to send a/the space ship once again to Mars. So- by the end of next Kalpa* some transformation in the element (atomic structure should change) should happen in earth. Very simple.

*There is enough time for the formation of the metal. If the space ship is sent in 1975 (say), there is time of 4963 years[= 5000 - (2012- 1975) ] from today for that metal to be formed.

[fluffy bunny]

Rather than insulting me with the assumption I do not understand, considering for a moment that I am asking you to look at is beyond which you have done so in the past.

I understand what you say. I can see the limitations in it, and the BKWSU's theory.

It is very simple. In fact, scientists had tried to transform other metals into gold and have even succeeded.

.
I can agree that transmutation of some chemical elements is possible, but have you any idea of the physical forces required and conditions required to do so? Conditions which only found during nuclear reactions.

Are you suggesting that the entire universe is subject to such influences come Destruction? Or just our Solar System?

Trust me, if scientists had managed to carry out "chrysopoeia", the alchemic transformation of base metals into gold, we would have heard about it by now. And it would cause a radical revolution, and the collapse in the economic system of the world.

I hope this is real science you are talking about and not something you have read written by Jagdish Chander.

Your wrong imagination due to poor/wrong knowledge. Same down to the molecule means the same thing should be repetitive in every Kalpa and does not mean that they should return back physically ... To be purified does not imply that the metal space ship has to be brought back to earth.

Are we talking about real knowledge, or BK Knowledge here?

Fine ... mass can turn into energy but how and how does it get back from planet Mars?

Really, all that I am leading to her is that the BKWSU theory of Destruction and Creation cannot be true and it portrayed at a very simple, child-like level. Even the PBK version is more detailed. To the best of my understanding, BK Knowledge has only even taught civil war, then nuclear war and natural disasters ... then an Advance Party physically rebuilding heaven, e.g. including palaces, gardens and miraculous technology. That is all. It does explain any of the magic you are suggesting.

Interestingly enough, I was speaking to a Muslim about what Islam teaches regarding Destruction and they gave a far rational explanation to what might happen. One which would lead to explain (re-) Creation too. At the very least, it would involve the structure of the entire universe collapsing. In short, another "Big Bang".

[mbbhat]

I have put my views, and explained it fully. and it is up to you whether to agree, or disagree or anything.

[fluffy bunny]

As usual ... you avoided addressing the actual issue.

So far we have over 6,000 tons of human made metals in space, over 600,000 objects larger than 1 cm, magically disappearing into the ether before the start of the Golden Age ... and then magically being replace deep within the earth.

The Knowledge states that nothing of the impure world will exist in the Golden Age, so it has to all happen before 1/1/1.

How?

[mbbhat]

As usual ... you avoided addressing the actual issue.

As usual,... you could not understand what is explained.

[fluffy bunny]

Don't fool yourself and don't insult your way out of a situation.

You postulated mass could be converted into energy and element transmuted.
You did not postulate how even energy could be *magically* directed and transferred through space, nor how element might be transmuted into others at such distance or without such forces as we know are required to alter their structure.

Did Jagdish tell you that the Medieval alchemists really did turn base metal into gold?


FUD ... Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt.

Although I accept you have little to cause fear, we are immune to Destruction, Dharamraj or the Dadis here, can you see how you use the propagandist's yukti ... of attempting to seed Uncertainty and Doubt.

• "You don't understand ... You don't understand ... You don't understand ... you have a low level of thinking ... you have a low level of thinking ... you have a low level of thinking ..."

My God, I hope they don't let you near young students. I am sorry, no.

I don't find it divine. You don't get my pass mark. I don't think there is anyone here who will.

Now why not be nice and do something positive and practical for others?

I spent a few hours sorting out the tidying up the collection of Murlis to download for BKs ... why don't you join me in doing so and complete i? "Many hands make light work" etc.

[mbbhat]

Good. May ShivBaba or your own god bless you and solve your problems and doubt.

[fluffy bunny]

If your god Lekhraj Kirpalani cannot answer these and the other simple anomalies and problems with his theory of creation, I'd like you do stop calling him "god" and "ocean of knowledge" until he can.

If you must call him "ocean of ..." then don't call it "knowledge" because either one of the other is wrong.

But what I would like to know is how, when and to whom did Lekhraj Kirpalani ... or whoever ... announce that the so called Shiva was inside him?

It was not in 1936. It was some time around or after 1950. I think every BK is owe the rest of the world an explanation for this.

[mbbhat]

If one cannot understand simple things in simple words, it is up to them.

[fluffy bunny]

If one cannot understand simple things in simple words, it is up to them.

But you are not actually explaining anything, mbbhat. Do you understand that?

And, again, you are using the word "understand" where you really mean "accept".

I can comprehend what you are saying but it is without understanding or explanation.

Really, the honest answer would be, "I don't know, the BKWSU leaders don't know, the god of the BKWSU does not know and we're not a university ... we keep away from subjects we cannot explain and which challenge or contradict what we teach".

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I remember back to when I was enculted as a BK. There is a strange tendency for us to repeated what we are told even if in our heart of hearts we don't really understanding it. Perhaps our egos are so fluffed up, or we are addicted to the trance like states of mind, or perhaps we are just too physically and mentally exhausted that we are able to believe the most impossible things. No normal grounds of logic or understanding matter. Our minds become structureless sponges and we accept any contradiction or paradox.

Space exploration and archeology are very challenging to the BK faith. There may well be an alternative or advanced answer that fits within the Knowledge ... but despite 76 + years of research, the BKs don't have and just glaze over when they are brought up.

age-dinosaur-bones-1.jpg (28.29 KiB) Viewed 5009 times

[mbbhat]

I have already replied to this in the forum. Something more i will put here in addition to and including those.
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There is chance for Dinosaurs to exist in other continents during Golden and silver ages. By the Copper Age, they might have died all. The eggs may be still surviving even now below the earth. And they may create them in next Kalpa.

There is no hard and fast rule that - the existing eggs should be destroyed by Kaliyug. Only thing is- repetition should happen and everything should be purified.
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And- Baba has said- in heaven- there would be no snakes. Now- question arises- how can then be there snakes begin from Copper Age?

And Baba has said- gold crown in heaven would be lighter than the feather (else it would be burden, is it not)?

also- the aeroplanes in heaven- will move with speed of thoughts.- Baba had said this.

So- we do not know each and every detail at present. Baba has cleary said- if anyone asks about animals- tell them- "ShivBaba has come to purify human beings. You put effort to purify. (When there is drama), Baba may explain in future".

There are any mysteries which science cannot explain. It neither means science is wrong nor proves the mysteries are wrong. It just says- those mysteries are beyond the scope of the science.


Similarly- if BK philosophy does not give reply to each and every of people, it does not imply that the BK philosophy is wrong. But- implies that there is no role of Baba in drama to teach such things.


A wonderful Murli point which I found just last month(for you may be garbage).

SM 25-11-78(3):- Jo srimath par na chalte, unki budhi may kab dhaaran ho na sakey. DIN PRATIDIN KAHTE HAIN AAGE AAPKAA GYAAN AUR THAA. AB AUR HAIN. Baap kahte hain din pratidin tumko guhy baatein sunaataa hun. Toh zaroor gyaan ki vruddhi hoti jaayegi. KOYI2 PRASHN UTHAA_THAY HAIN 8 BAADSHAAHE KAISE CHALENGI? IS HISAAB SE ITNI BAADASHAAHI HONI CHAAHIYE. Baap kahte hain tum in baaton may kyon padte ho? Pahley baap aur unkey varse ko toh yad karo. Vahaan ki jo rasam rivaaz hogi vah chalegi. Bachche jis reeti paidaa hote honge us reeti honge. Tum kyon ismey jaate ho? -80- [Kings, gyaani tu atma, atom bomb]

= Those who do not follow srimath, their intellect will not imbibe. Everyday- (people) say- your knowledge was something before and now something different. Father says- everyday, I speak new points. So- definitely there will be increase in knowledge. Some (mostly children) question, how can there be (just) 8 dynasty? According to this calculation, there should be so much*. Father says- why should you get into such things? first remember Father and property. ... how children will take birth,.. will take birth according to the rasam rivaaz of there. Why do you get into these?

* It should be 21 dynasty in Satyug itself as I have questioned in this topic- you may search here.

http://bk-pbk.info/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=2012


I had questioned the same thing in the above link in this forum - around 2 years before. But, Baba says- no need to go into details of these. now, you may say- Baba as liar. I also have put the title of the above topic as- "Lies in Murlis.... "

So- I have never claimed that i have answer to all the questions. When i can list errors in Murlis according to the concept of Murli itself, what gain there would be if I become able to prove all the scientific points?

What I said was- "you cannot (could not) understand what is written here(even though they are fully explained, you put the same question again in the same way)". Of course, they may be simple to be called as childish. They may not be to the level of the scientists. But, I had given at least some explanation which proves- there is some possibility.

And- sorry- my English is not enough to put everything in right words.
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something more:- now, some may say- some dinosaurs were non veg, some veg, etc. The proof given by such scientists need not be accurate. Just from the skeletons, bones, - the arrived judgement need not be accurate. Because there is a lot of guessing in science in many things (except in creation of machines and computers).

The bones and skeletons found proves that they existed. but, how many years back- such proof what they give need not be accurate.
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we believe Murli even if some points contradict there itself. So- aim to prove anything scientifically has least priority for me and most of the BKs. Or that has least value in altering the faith. Of course, there is possibility that- some BKs may feel upset to give knowledge to such scientists. OK- That is part of drama for us.

And even other worldly people- there are some who have doubt whether dinosaurs really existed or not. I am not going to give those links. You may search from web sites.

[arjun]

A wonderful Murli point which I found just last month(for you may be garbage).

SM 25-11-78(3):- Jo srimath par na chalte, unki budhi may kab dhaaran ho na sakey. DIN PRATIDIN KAHTE HAIN AAGE AAPKAA GYAAN AUR THAA. AB AUR HAIN. Baap kahte hain din pratidin tumko guhy baatein sunaataa hun. Toh zaroor gyaan ki vruddhi hoti jaayegi. KOYI2 PRASHN UTHAA_THAY HAIN 8 BAADSHAAHE KAISE CHALENGI? IS HISAAB SE ITNI BAADASHAAHI HONI CHAAHIYE. Baap kahte hain tum in baaton may kyon padte ho? Pahley baap aur unkey varse ko toh yad karo. Vahaan ki jo rasam rivaaz hogi vah chalegi. Bachche jis reeti paidaa hote honge us reeti honge. Tum kyon ismey jaate ho? -80- [Kings, gyaani tu atma, atom bomb]

The above Murli point applies only to the PBKs and not to the BKs because their knowledge has stagnated to the level of 1969. There is no one to explain deeper knowledge day by day nor does anyone have courage to ask Avyakt BapDada any deeper point or question.

[fluffy bunny]

The above Murli point applies only to the PBKs and not to the BKs because their knowledge has stagnated to the level of 1969. There is no one to explain deeper knowledge day by day nor does anyone have courage to ask Avyakt BapDada any deeper point or question.

Much of the BK Knowledge is still stuck back in the 1930s of Karachi ...

On July 20, 1969, Americans Neil Armstrong and Buzz Aldrin were the human being on the Moon via the Apollo 11 spaceflight.

If Gyan is Gyan there must be some significance to that.

The first satellite, Sputnik, went up in October 1957.

[mbbhat]

The above Murli point applies only to the PBKs and not to the BKs because their knowledge has stagnated to the level of 1969. There is no one to explain deeper knowledge day by day nor does anyone have courage to ask Avyakt BapDada any deeper point or question.

But, when PBKs read the same old Murli and read it from BKWSU, and still fail to recognize the typing errors, and lots of mis interpretations,...?

And- I think- actually knowledge of PBKs is really stagnated. What new is being told there? - There is also lots of failures in their predictions as mentioned by the members in the forum.

Of course- there are new things - in the form of failures of predictions, and like one Jagadamba leaving, another coming, PBKs further splitting to Vishnu Party, then Krishna Party, etc.

Actually, BK knowledge is not stagnated. BKs do not have idea of how many souls will be in Advance Party, how Krishna will take birth, etc. They are yet to come up.

But, PBKs have already announced all these things long before.