Mbbhat's Views and Churnings

[mbbhat]

Post No. 15) ----- example 05 under discussion -------

more praises to children

7)SM 3-12-82(3):- Saput bachche vah jo Baap se pooraa varsaa lekar naam baalaa karte hain. YAH BABA KAHTE KI BACHCHIYAAN HUMSEY HOSHIYAAR HAIN. ShivBaba se hoshiyaar to koyi ho na sakey. BAAP HI BACHCHON KO SIR PAR CHADHAATE HAIN. BEHADH KE BAAPDAADAA KO BHI BACHCHON KE LIYE REGARD, PYAAR HAI. Chaahtey hain harek bachchaa apnaa raajy bhaagy ley. -111 &115 [hoshiyaar, WOT]

= ... This Baba says- the children are better than me. No one can be better than ShivBaba. Father places children on his head. Even the unlimited Father has love and regard to children. ....

so- does this imply, children are better than Brahma Baba?

8) SM 10-11-82(2):- Barrister log bahut abhyaas karte hain. Phir doosraa vakil argue karenge to kitaab kholkar dekhenge phir bolenge judge saheb, dekho- falaani law book may yah hai. Vah phir kahenge falaani may yah hai. Unhonkey paas bahut points rahti hain. Engineer ki bhi buddhi chalti hai. To tumko aise2 plan banaaney hain. Bachchon ko numberwaar practice hai tab to jo teekhey hain unko bhaashan karney ke liye bulaatey hain. SAMAJHTEY HAIN BADEY BHAAYIYON MAY JAGADISH HOSHIYAAR HAI TO KAHENGE INKO BULAAVO. BADON KA PHIR REGARD BHI RAKHNAA HOTAA HAI. SCHOOL MAY MANNERS BHI SIKHLATEY HAIN. -50- [hoshiyaar]

= ..... children feel Jagadish child is intelligent in brothers. So they call him. Regard of elders should be kept. In schools even manners are taught.

[mbbhat]

# Post No. 16 --------------example 05 under discussion --------

9)SM 19-9-82(3):- TUM Mama BABA SE BHI OONCH JAA SAKTEY HO. PARANTU VIVEK KAHTAA HAI Mama BABA SE OONCH KOYI JAA NAHIN SAKTAA. BHAL SOORY CHAAND KO GRAHAN LAGTAA HAI. Parantu toot nahin saktey. Sitaarey toot padtey hain. -27 [number one, hoshiyaar, soory]

=.... you may go ahead of Mama, Baba. But wisdom says- no one can go ahead than Mama Baba....


10)SM 5-10-82(1):- Aisey baap kaa haath kab nahin chodnaa. Nahin to bahut ronaa padegaa. BAHUT ACHCHE2 BACHCHE JINKO BABA BADE2 TITLES DETE HAIN VAH BHI HAATH CHOD DETE HAIN. BABA KOYI KO JAASTI PYAAR KARTE HAIN KI KAHAAN GIR NA JAAVE. Geeth bhi gaayaa huvaa hai. Aisey na ho Maya tumko ghaseet le, phir bahut pachtaanaa padegaa. -43 [hoshiyaar- regard]

= .... Very good children to whom baba used to give titles, even they have left Baba. (Sometimes) Baba loves more so that children do not fall. ...

11)SM 28-12-83(3):- Kitnaa bachchon ko samjhaayaa jaataa hai. PHIR BHI Mama BABA KO JEETH SAKTEY HO. PARANTU SERVICE KARKEY DIKHAAVO. Baba toh service par inaam dete hain. - 75- [Number one, hoshiyaar]

= ..... you can win even Mama, Baba. But show/prove it by service. Baba gives prize for service.

Who has shown it by service so far?

[I think- the heart of both Baba's is so broad that- they gave such a sustenance where children were give full chance to progress].

[mbbhat]

# Post No. 17 ------ example No. 05 under discussion---------

12)SM 12-1-83(1):- ShivBaba kahte hain tum BHI Brahma Baba dwaaraa humaarey vamshaavali baney ho. Brahma bhi kahte hain ki tum humaarey bachche baney ho. TUM BRAAHMANON KI BUDDHI MAY SHWAASON SHWAAS YAHI CHALEGAA KI YAH HUMAARAA BAAP HAI. YAH HUMAARAA Dada HAI. Baap se jaasti Daade ko Yaad karte hain. Vah manushy toh Baap se jhagdaa aadhi karkey bhi Dade ki property lete hain. TUMKO BHI KOSHISH KAR BAAP SE BHI JAASTI DADE SE LENAA HAI. Baba jab poochte hain toh sabhi kahte hain hum Narayan ko varenge. KOYI2 NAYE AATE HAIN, PAVITR NAHIN RAH SAKTEY TOH VAH HAATH NAHIN UTHAA SAKTEY. KAH DETE Maya BADI PRABAL HAI.

=.... you children should put effort to get more property than brahma Baba from the grand Father (ShivBaba)...

13)SM 13-5-82(2):- BABA KHUD HEE DALAAL BAN SAGAAYI KARAATE HAIN. TOH DALAAL KO NAHIN Yaad KARNAA HAI. Sajniyon ka Yoga hai saajan ke saath. VAH AAKAR KE Mama BABA DWARA YAA TUM BACHCHON DWARA Murli SUNAATE HAIN. BABA KAHTE HAIN BAHUT AISEY BACHCHE HAIN JINKI BHRUKUTI KE BEECH BAITH HUM Murli CHALAATAA HUN. Kalyaan karne arth. Koyi ko saakshaatkaar karaane, Murli sunaane, koyi ka kalyaan karne jaataa hun. Braahmaniyon mey itni taakath nahin. Jaantaa hun inko yah braahmani uthaa nahin sakegi toh main aakar aisaa teer lagaataa hun jo vah braahmani se bhi teekhaa jaaye. Braahmani samajhthi hai inko humney uthaayaa. Deh abhimaan may aa jaati hai. Vaastav may yah ahankaar na aanaa chaahiye. SAB KUCH ShivBaba KARNEVAALAA HAI. Yahaan toh tumko kahte hain Baba ko Yaad karo. Connection ShivBaba se hona chaahiye. YAH TOH BEECH MAY DALAAL HAI. Unko inkaa evajaa mil jaataa hai. PHIR BHI YAH VRUDDH ANUBHAVI TAN HAI. YAH BADAL NAHIN SAKTEY. DRAMA MAY NOONDH HAI. Aisey nahin doosrey kalp may doosrey ke tan may aavenge. Nahin. JO LAST MAY HAIN UNKO HEE PHIR PAHLEY JAANAA HAI.

= ... He (ShivBaba) comes and speaks Murli through Mama, Baba or you children. There are many children in whose forehead I sit and speak Murli. for the purpose of benefit. ... there would be no power in the sister/child.... the sister thinks i have lifted this one. body conscious enters. Actually thisego should not come. It is ShivBaba who does all these.

So- those who say "Such children who used to teach drill are greater than Mama and Baba"- is also due to body consciousness?

It may also be ShivBaba who sat in forehead of those children while teaching drill to Mama, Baba- is it not?

[mbbhat]

# Post No. 18 --------example 05 under discussion------

14)SM 14-11-89(2):- Is janm ke paap bataa do toh halkey ho jaayenge. Nahin toh dil andar khaataa rahegaa. Sach batlaane se halke honge. BAHUT ACHCHE2 A1 MAHARATHI BHI SACH NAHIN BATAATEY. Maya ekdum zhor se ghoosaa lagaa deti hai. -59 [hoshiyaar]

= Very good A 1 Maharathi children also do not speak truth…...

[then why should Baba call them as A1 Maharathi child? Is it not just to motivate?]

15)SM 14-4-85(2):- History, Geography Baap hee samjhaate hain. Vah toh sahaj hai. Baaki Yaad kee hee difficult thay difficult subject hai. BAAP KE SAATH Yoga RAKHNEY MAY KOYI BHI HOSHIYAAR NAHIN HAI. -16- [Yaad, hoshiyaar]

= To teach history and geography is easy. The remembrance is the one that is difficult. No one is so intelligent in keeping Yoga with Father.

16)SM 16-4-85(3):- Mama kitni service karti thi. AISAA TOH KOYI KAH NA SAKEY KI HUM Mama SE HOSHIYAAR HAIN. Mama GYAAN MAY SABSEY THEEKI THI. Yoga ki kami bahuton may hai. -20 [number one, hoshiyaar, Mama]

= how much service Mama used to do. No one can say that we are better than Mama. Mama is ahead than all in knowledge. Many have defect in Yoga.

[mbbhat]

# Post no. 19 ----example no. 05 under discussion-----

Of course, there were some children having special qualities (like already said about Jagadish Bhai that his English is better than brahma Baba and is good in preparing magazines, etc]

17) SM 30-11-76(2):- Tumko mehnath karni hi hai. PICHAADI MAY KOYI KO RAHNAA BHI HAI NA. VAH TOH JO NIRBHAY HONGE, AUR BUDDHIYOG POORAA LAGAA HUVAA HOGAA, VAHI RAHENGE. Bahuton ko bhay ki beemaari bhi hoti hai. BABA RAATH KO SHIVBAALAK KO KAH RAHAA THAA KI BABA SE BHI JAASTI TUM NIRBHAY HO. GAAYON SE DARTAA NAHIN HAI. Gaayen bigar dhani kisko pass bhi aane na de. Aajkal jaanvaron jaisaa bhi manushyon may akal nahin hai. -44- [hoshiyaar, prediction]

= .......... Many have disease of fear. In the (previous) night, baba used to tell shivbalak ( a child) that you are more fearless than Baba. He has no fear of cows. ....
----------------------
So- i think if anyone thinks he is better than Mama Baba or can become better than Mama Baba it would be foolishness. But of course, there is margin for that. One needs to prove from service.

[mbbhat]

# Post No. 20

Example no. 06:- Baby buddhi = Child/Baby intellect

Did ShivBaba really mean the intellect of Brahma Baba childish or poor?

Some criticize/comment that intellect of brahma Baba was childish and claim that their intellect is far better than Brahma Baba's.

Here I would like to discuss about-

Did ShivBaba criticized Brahma Baba by saying his intellect was childish?

Did ShivBaba meant intellect of Brahma Baba is childish through out his life time or just to the beginning period?

Did those Murli points mean children's intellects are better than that of Brahma Baba?

Did the child intellect is said just for knowledge or also for Yoga?
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1)SM 11-5-82(2):- Adha kalp Bhaktimarg chalta hai. Din aur raath. SHURU MAY BHI PAHLEY2 JAB PRAVESHTAA HUYI, to deewaalon (actually should be deewaaron) par aise2 chakkar nikaalte rahte thay. Jaise chote bachche hote hain- samajh may kuch nahin aataa thaa. Hum tum sab babies thay. Phir dheere2 buddhi may aataa gayaa. Abhi tum padhkar hoshiyaar huye ho. To bilkul sahaj reeti samjhaa sakte ho. -11- [rath, entrance, babies]

= ... IN THE BEGINNING WHEN (GOD) ENTERED, (this = brahma) used to draw circles on walls like this/these. Similar to small children- nothing was getting understood. We all were babies. Later/then slowly2 (we) began to understand. Now you have become intelligent after doing study. So you can explain in very simple way.

For the beginning period it is said that brahma Baba was like a child. but note that it is said- all were babies in the beginning.
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2)SM 03-09-82(3):- BRAHMA BABA BUDDOO TOH NAHIN HAI NA. KAYI ShivBaba KO BHI AUR BRAHMA BABA KO BHI BUDDOO SAMAJHTEY HAIN. Achchaa…

=Brahma Baba is not idiot, is it not? Some think (both) ShivBaba and Brahma Baba as idiots. Good

[mbbhat]

# Post no. 21------example 06 [child intellect] under discussion---------


3)SM 30-06-09(3):- ShivBaba ko koyi shaastr aadi padhne ki darkaar nahin hai. Yah Brahma padhaa huva hai. Tumko to abhi ShivBaba padhaate hain. YAH BRAHMA BHI PADHAA SAKTE HAIN. PARANTU TUM SADAIV SAMJHO ShivBaba KE LIYE. UNKO Yaad KARNE SE VIKARM VINAASH HONGE. BEECH MAY YAH BHI HAI.

= ShivBaba teaches you now. Even Brahma can teach you. But, you assume that it is ShivBaba who teaches you. Because by remembering, your sins will be burnt.

4)SM 3-2-89(2, 3):- Kalp jab pooraa hotaa hai, to khud hee aakar bataate hain ki main koun hun. MAIN KAISE INMEY PRAVESH KARTAA HUN. JIS_SEY TUM AAPE HEE SAMAJH JAATE HO. PAHLEY NAHEEN SAMAJHTE THAY. HAAN PARAMAATMAA KEE PRAVESHATAA HAI. PARANTU KAISE KAB HUYI, KUCH BHEE SAMAJHTE THODE HEE THAY. DIN PRATIDIN TUMHAAREE BUDDHI MAY BAATEIN AATEE RAHATEE HAIN. NAYI2 BAATEIN TUM SUNTE RAHATE HO. AAGE THODE HEE DO BAAP KAA RAAZ SAMJHAATE THAY. AAGE TO JAISE BABIYAAN (BABIES) THEE. Abhee bhee bahut baby kahte hain. Baba, hum do din kaa aapkaa bachchaa hun, itney din kaa bachchaa hun. Samajhte hain jo kuch hotaa hai kalp pahale misal. Ismey badi knowledge hai. SAMAJHNE MAY BHEE SAMAY LAGTAA HAI. -45-, 46 [babies, entrance, gyaan]

= You are listening to new points. Initially, the secret of two fathers was not told. Initially you were like babies. ... It takes time to understand the knowledge.

So- here also Baba is pointing to the initial period, because the real knowledge was not given then.

[mbbhat]

# Post No. 22 -----example No. 06 [baby intellect] under discussion----------

Almost all are babies!

5)SM 19-5-85(1):- Gyaan toh badaa sahaj hai. Parantu Yaad may mehnath hai. BABA AKSAR KAHTE TUM BABY HO. TOH BACHCHON KE UL_HANEY AATE HAIN HUM BABY HAIN(!). BABA KAHTE HAAN BABY HO. BHAL GYAAN MAY TOH BAHUT ACHCHE HO. PRADARSHANI MAY SERVICE BAHUT ACHCHEE KARTE HO. RAAT DIN SERVICE MAY LAG JAATE HO. PHIR BHI BABY KAH DETAA HUN. Baap kahte hain yah bhi Baby hai. Yah Baba kahte hain tum humaarey se bhi badey ho. Inkey oopar toh bahut maamley hain. Jinkey maathay maamlaa….. Sab khyaalaath rahte hain. Kitney samaachaar Baba ke paas aate hain. Isliye phir subah ko baith Yaad karne ki koshish karte hain. Varsaa toh unsey hee panaa hai. Toh Baap ko Yaad karnaa hai. SABHI BACHCHON KO ROZ2 SAMJHAATAA HUN. MEETHAY BACHCHON, TUM Yaad KI YAATRAA MAY BAHUT KAMZHOR HO. GYAAN MAY TOH BHAL ACHCHE HO. PARANTU HAREK APNI DIL SE POOCHE MAIN BABA KI Yaad MAY KITNAA RAHTAA HUN. Achchaa din may bahut kaam aadi may busy rahte ho. Yoon toh kaam karte bhi Yaad may rah saktey ho. Kahaavath bhi hai hath kaar dey, dil yaar dey. Buddhi vahaan lagi rahe. Jaise Bhaktimarg may bhal poojaa aadi karte rahte hain. Buddhi aur2 taraf dhandhe aadi may chali jaati hai. Athvaa stree kaa pati vilaayath may hogaa toh unki buddhi vahaan chali jaayegi jis_sey jaasti connection hai. TOH BHAL SERVICE ACHCHEE KARTE HO, PHIR BHI BABA BABY BUDDHI KAHTE HAIN. BAHUT BACHCHE LIKHTE HAIN HUM BABA KI Yaad BHOOL JAATE HAIN. AREY, BAAP KO TOH BABY BHI BHOOL NAHIN BHOOLTEY. TUM TOH BABY SE BHI BABY HO. Jis Baap se tum prince princess bante ho vah tumhaaraa Baap, teacher, guru bhi hai. Tum unko bhooltey ho! ....................BAAP KO Yaad NAHIN KAR SAKTEY TOH, BABY SE BHI BABY THAH_REY NA. SAARAA MADAAR Yaad PAR HAI. -66-, 67 [baby intellect, Yaad]

= Knowledge is very simple. But there is difficulty in remembrance. Baba oftenly says- you are baby. Then children complain- are we babies?! Baba says- yes, you are babies. Of course, you are very good in knowledge. You do very well service in exhibition. Day and night you do service. Even then Baba says- you are babies. Father says- even this is baby. This has many issues in its head. One whose head is full of issues….. This has all thoughts/matters/issues. How many news come to Baba? Hence then in the early morning I try to remember…..... Everyday I tell all the children. Sweet children, you all are weak in remembrance….......... Of course, you do service well. Even then Baba says (to you) as Baby intellect. Many children write, we forget to remember Baba. Arey- even a baby does not forget Father. You are more baby than babies. From the Father you become prince and princess, who is your teacher as well as guru, you forget him! If you cannot remember Father, you are baby than babies, is it not? Everything depends on remembrance.
-----------------
Here Baba says babies to all. even one who is good in knowledge doing day and night service, but weak in remembrance, Baba calls that child as baby.

[arjun]

mbbhat Bhai,
Om Shanti. Having answered hundreds, or may be thousands of your questions whenever you appeared and disappeared from this forum and having found that you consider yourself greater than ShivBaba and make mockery even of the Dadis by calling them illiterate women and in view of ShivBaba's directions in the Murlis that we should not debate the knowledge with anyone, I will no longer answer your questions. You are free to defame the PBKs, Baba Virendra Dev Dixit and the advance knowledge as much as possible. I know you will utilize this chance for spreading more and more lies about us. But you are free to do so. I can continue to answer thousands of more questions that you ask, but it is of no use. If you are really interested in knowing advance knowledge come to any of our mini-Madhubans or go through the advance knowledge being posted by me and others in the PBK Section of this forum.

In fact you did not even prove to be a good human being. I informed you that I was suffering from viral fever, but you squeezed the entire energy out of me by forcing me into debate for many days till I was completely bedridden. So, I think instead of wasting my energy on a person like you who does not have any aim other than criticizing the PBKs and being in the limelight always, it is better to do other kinds of Godly service which may prove useful to the BKs as well as the PBKs and others.

“Now people are very dirty. They will also create a lot of obstacles; they will also level false charges. One should not get frightened by this. Whatever may happen one should not feel afraid. These charges were leveled 5000 years ago as well. These will be leveled even now. They will also cook up false stories. Even if someone does not get a (proper) response, they create a disturbance. Gradually, everyone including the Sanyasis-Udaasis, etc. would come. Everyone has to certainly obtain the Father’s knowledge. These pictures would also travel all over the world. One should never argue under the influence of anger. Even if someone defames, one should never become angry. Children should become refreshed and do service. Day by day the rules and laws would go on improving (in the Yagya) The rules of the world would continue to worsen because it goes on undergoing degradation. We are becoming pure.” (Revised Sakar Murli dated 09.02.08, pg 3&4 published by BKs in Hindi, narrated by ShivBaba through Brahma Baba; translated by a PBK; the words within brackets in the English version have been added by the translator to clarify the meaning)

“People argue with you a lot. They would argue in front of Baba as well. They will unnecessarily spoil their heads. There is no benefit. It is the task of you children to explain this. You children know that Baba has made us so high. This is a study. The Father teaches as a teacher. You are studying to transform from human beings to deities.” (Revised Sakar Murli dated 18.06.09, pg 2 published by BKs in Hindi, narrated by ShivBaba through Brahma Baba; translated by a PBK; the words within brackets in the English version have been added by the translator to clarify the meaning)

“You know that we are very independent, very wealthy there. Nobody sets his eyes on us. Later on, when we became weak, then everybody eyed your wealth. When Muhammad Gaznavi came and looted temples your liberty was completely lost. You became slaves in the kingdom of Ravan. Now you are at Purushottam Sangamyug. Now you are achieving true freedom. They do not understand the meaning of liberty at all. So, you have to explain this topic also tactfully. Those who have achieved freedom Kalpa ago will accept. When you explain, they argue so much like a fool. When they waste our time, we don’t feel like talking to them.” (Revised Sakar Murli dated 24.08.09, pg 3 published by BKs in Hindi, narrated by ShivBaba through Brahma Baba; translated by a PBK; the words within brackets in the English version have been added by the translator to clarify the meaning)

“It takes a lot of efforts to esablish your kingdom. You also have to face abuses because you have to become kalangidhar (one who wears the crown of peacock feathers). Now all of you face abuses. I have been defamed the most. Then Prajapita Brahma is also abused. Friends and relatives etc. become angry. Vishnu or Shankar will not be abused. The Father says – I am abused. You have become children; so you also have to get a share (of abuses). Otherwise, this one was engaged in his business; there was no question of abuses at all. I am abused more than anyone else. They have forgotten their dharma and karma.” (Revised Sakar Murli dated 27.12.07, pg 4 published by BKs in Hindi, narrated by ShivBaba through Brahma Baba; translated by a PBK; the words within brackets in the English version have been added by the translator to clarify the meaning)

“Neither the Kalpa is lakhs of years old, nor am I omnipresent. You have been defaming me. Yet, I do so many favours to you. Nobody else has been defamed as much as ShivBaba. You keep telling about the Father, who makes you master of the world that He is omnipresent. When the defamation also crosses the limit, then I come and do favour. This is Purushottam Sangamyug, the benevolent Age when I come to make you pure. I narrate such an easy way to purify.” (Revised Sakar Murli dated 04.09.09, pg 3 published by BKs in Hindi, narrated by ShivBaba through Brahma Baba; translated by a PBK; the words within brackets in the English version have been added by the translator to clarify the meaning)

I know that you will deliver another big lecture on the above Murli points. Baba has also said that those who defame us are our greatest friends. So, dear friend you are now free to defame us as much as possible. I wish you good luck. And, if possible, try to be a good human being rather than just displaying your wealth of knowledge. And sorry, if my words have hurt you.

OGS,
Arjun

[mbbhat]

Good Murli points quoted by Arjun Soul above which help to become introverted.

[mbbhat]

#Post No. 23

Example No. 07 :- The age of Dada Lekhraj/Chariot while shiv entered him.

Murli points say- I entered in Brahma Baba when he was 60 years old. But some records say- he was around 50* years old during 1937.

Already many discussions have been done here and I also have put my views there.

But in additional to them- Initially- ShivBaba might not have entered in Brahma Baba regularly. Because regular Murli started only later, may be or seems to around 1947.

So- in the Murli ShivBaba may be referring to the time after he began to start Murli regularly. Because initially- much things were trace, visions, etc.
----

One more possibility is- Initially there was the belief that Prajapati Brahma was divine Father and Brahma himself was god of Gita. They did not know Shiv is present in Brahma Baba. When did they realize Shiv is present in Brahma Baba? That may be the time what is pointed in Murli by ShivBaba.
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But, if anyone claims that ShivBaba intially had entered some other person, then they should be able to explain other important things- Why Brahma Baba was placed as Divine Father Prajapati God Brahma in the pictures from the very beginning itself and no records of the other person whom they claim in outside world that- such and such person had played important role in Om Mandli in its leadreship activities. ?
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*Some documents say- DL was around 52 or 54 years by 1936.

Anyhow, these are just churning.

[fluffy bunny]

On the basis of current research, it seems likely that the stories of Lekhraj Kirpalani as per Adi Dev etc are a combination of more than one individual. Therefore, the story we have of Lekhraj Kirpalani is actually a mix of Lekhraj Kirpalani's and the story of this other older person.

It is certainly a fact ... not opinion ... that Lekhraj Kirpalani was not 60 in 1936 and that there was no mention of Shiva until after 1950.

It would help research if the BKs would just ask Dadi Janki Kripalani and others to just be honest for once and for all and tell us the truth ... not some re-interpretation of it.

Lekhraj Kirpalani was born in 1884, therefore he would be 60 in 1944 and 66 in 1950. There was no mention of God Shiva in 1944, and we still do not have the earliest mention of Shiva. How and when did they decide on the name?

I wish you would just help as a faith BK. Ask the leaders and get the honest and complete answer.

[mbbhat]

# Post No. 24

Example -08 - Could ShivBaba and brahma Baba have gone to AIVV and begin to give new knowledge there?

AM 27-3-81(1):- Copy karnaa arthaath follow karnaa. KOYI NAYAA MARG NAHIN BANAANAA HAI. KOYI NAYI KNOWLEDGE INVENT NAHIN KARNI HAI. Baap jo sunaataa hai, vah swaroop ban_naa hai. -42 [Yaad, gyaani tu atma]

= To copy means is to follow. There is no need to prepare a new path. There is no need to invent new knowledge. What the Father teaches , (you) should become embodiment of that.

The Vani/Murli point says- there is neither need to invent new knowledge nor to find new path.

[mbbhat]

# Post no. 25 ------------example no. 08 (DL's age...) under discussion---------

there was no mention of Shiva until after 1950.

i am not sure about this. the physical records say- BKs believed God of Gita as Brahma Baba in around 1939 in this- "Is this Justice". so- it is correct to come to conclusion that Shiva did not have right place at that time.

But is there any document that says- Brahma was declared as god of Gita till 1950?

Else- we cannot argue what was their belief (in black and white) after 1939.

Somewhere around 1945, 1947, etc there could have been the belief in BKWSU that it is Shiva in DL. I am just guessing.

Lekhraj Kirpalani was born in 1884, therefore he would be 60 in 1944

Then ball also lies in the court of PBKs who claim Lekhraj was 60 by 1947.
-----
If you have any document after 1939 claiming Brahma as God? Then it will have value.

Time only can ...

[Rudraakash]

Example -08 - Could ShivBaba and Brahma Baba have gone to AIVV and begin to give new knowledge there?

Dear brother your fundamentals are not clear thats why you ask same question again and again, really which is your bad habit.
Just read few points about NEW KNOWLEDGE, KNOWLEDGE GIVER AND NEW PLACE,
Av 18-1-1978
BABA chala gaya yah kahkar AVINASHI SAMBANDHO ko vinashi kyu banate ho? Sirf PART PARIWARTAN hua hai, jaise aap log bhi sewa ka sthan CHANGE karte ho na, To BRAHMA-BAAP ne bhi SEWA ka sthaan CHANGE kiya hai. ROOP WAHI , SEWA WAHI....

AV 1-6-83
YAH NAYA GYAAN HAI, yah pratyaksh nahi hua hai, to GYAAN data kaise PRATYAKSH ho? PAHLE GYAAN AATA HAI, FIR DATA AATA HAI. To gyaan data unche te uncha hai ya Ek hi wah GYAAN DATA hai, YAH SIDHH KAISE HOGA?
IS NAYE GYAAN SE HI SIDHH HOGA. Aatma kya kahti hai aur Partama kya kahta hai, yah antar jab tak manusya ki buddhi me na aaye tab tak jo bhi tinke ke sahare pakde hue hai wah kaise Chhodenge?


So dear service is same, form is same but the service place has changed.
But the same baapdada is working there,
AV 18-1-1997
Jante bhi hai inhoka BACKBONE koi AUTHORITY, Lekin wahi BAAPDADA hai, Aur hume bhi baap se warsa lana hai…..........wo Abhi hona hai….
.
Dear mbbhat Bhai again you manmat is crossing shreemat.