Need help to understand teachings of PBK

[arjun]

Would Veerendra Dev Dixit's thesis submitted for PhD be available online?
I am sure it would be fascinating to read how Veerendra Dev Dixit's thoughts evolved about the yogya and Knowledge, and how he derived his conclusions as he studied the Murlis, Vanis, anecdotal information that he was provided verbally, and other materials, especially any notebooks of the then BK Sisters/Brothers.

I don't think it is available online. But a PBK member of this forum had made efforts to obtain the same from the Ahmedabad professor under whom he had done research. The member got some pages and even uploaded some of them on this forum long ago. I will have to search for the same to provide a link (probably in the Commonroom Section).

Also, was Veerendra Dev Dixit himself aware that he was Sevak Ram in his previous birth or did Shiva Baba and/or DL give him that information?

He has never accepted this openly, but PBKs believe it was he who played that role. Yes, it was with ShivBaba's inspiration that he could have understood the connection between the role of Prajapita/Shankar and Dada Lekhraj's partner (Sewakram).
OGS,
Arjun

[T.K]

Thanks for all the responses, Arjun.
I have seen the 2 scanned pages of the thesis. You need not look for the links.
But if there are more pages, I'd appreciate the link(s) in that case.
T.K

[T.K]

Here is the link :

http://bk-pbk.info/viewtopic.php?f=6&t= ... 273#p34273

I wish ak1972 could scan the entire thesis and upload it.
T.K

[T.K]

Why do BKs/PKs require one to bathe after using the toilet?
Is proper washing of the hands with soap not sufficient?

Do Hindu scriptures also require this practice?
Any other religions?

T.K

[fluffy bunny]

Why do BKs/PKs require one to bathe after using the toilet?
Is proper washing of the hands with soap not sufficient?

Yes, I'd be interested to know the deeper aspects of this. (I am interested in the deeper aspects of everything).

The bottomline is, it is not just bathing (normally a bucket bath or shower), but also a change or clothes as well. It also goes as far as a delineation between what one used one's right hand and left hand for.

In the old days in the West, we were told that even after urinating you were supposed to wash the genital area ... and at the very least a change of underwear (the West is cold and it is less practical to wash so many warm items of clothing).

Yes, some castes/jati and Buddhist and Vedantic sects have similar habits ... do most Indian Hindus, who can, do so similarly today ... or is the habit dying off?

Washing butt holes (anuses) is far more common worldwide and make a lot of sense in warm countries. In fact, many people think northern Europeans/Americans dirty for not doing so ... and quite right too. I remember one story of a very famous Bharatanatyam dancer who came to perform in London, perhaps the first major one to do so. She said she was put off doing her best dance performance due to the thought of all the 100s of dirty unwashed butt holes in the audience. But then, the British are notoriously dirty even to Europeans ... putting their shoes on carpets, furniture and even beds ... and, historically, hardly used to bathe at all (may be once a year, it was thought to be unhealthy to do so ... the royal families even used to keep their clothes in the toilet because they thought the smell would keep the bugs away).

Personally, I find it to be very comfortable ... but very impractical in the West. At the very least, in civilised European and Asian nations ... unlike the UK ... bidets are commonplace and I am surprised the BKs have no made them more common.

I suspect that in the first place it was purely cultural from the upper castes of the Sind. They wanted to copy the Brahmins and set the highest standards to appear religious and devout. Secondly, I suspect it has a definite practical value, e.g. that the body excretes waste not just from the obvious parts but also the skin and this is better washed off (toilets in those days must also have been very dirty places and still are). Lastly, I suspect also that there are mystical/superstitious reasons, e.g. "evil spirits" being attracted to unclean smells ... however you might understand that.

But these are just my reflections and I would be interested to read any more specific BK/PBK logic about it.

You know also there are additional rules for women during their menstrual cycle involving not entering the kitchen, washing hair etc?

[arjun]

Why do BKs/PKs require one to bathe after using the toilet?
Is proper washing of the hands with soap not sufficient?

Do Hindu scriptures also require this practice?

As fluffybunny has pointed out, this rule must have been just a continuation of the Hindu (brahminical) tradition of bathing after using the toilet (for defecating). It must be purely for the purpose of physical cleanliness. As pointed out by fluffybunny, clean toilets were a luxury a few decades ago (even after the demise of Brahma Baba in 1969) in most parts of India. So, bathing after defecating helps in maintaining cleanliness.

Some Hindu communities follow this rule of bathing even after urinating, which I don't think is practically possible as a person urinates many times in a day, whereas defecation is generally limited to once or twice a day. And if someone makes it a practice to defecate before the daily morning bath, then this rule will not create any problem at all. It is only those who do not have any contol over their eating habits that face problems with this rule.

As regards change of clothes during this process, what BKs or PBKs do is that if they have a combined bath and toilet, they remove their clothes and then wear the same clothes after bathing. But where the bath and toilet are separate, they wear a towel or old dress to the toilet and wash it after using the toilet. So, they need not put clean clothes for washing every time they defecate.

OGS,
Arjun

[T.K]

I think I can understand why bathing and a change of clothes after defecating may have been constituted.
Even after you clean yourself, using water, some of the water may drip onto the legs, you are still touching your clothes (to tie the drawstrings or buttons) with your hands before you reach a washbasin to wash the hands.
It may make sense to then bathe and change clothes, especially in places like India where, for some reason, personal cleanliness is of utmost importance, but the toilets and bathrooms receive the least attention during construction, use and maintenance.

[T.K]

While much debate among the members of this forum has raged on the consistency of the claims by BKs/PBKs, it appears that two claims have stood the march of time and the brickbats:
1.That time is cyclic and its period is 5000 years which is divided into 4 equal terms, of which the second is the Silver Age.
2.Golden Age will start in 2036.

I think I can get all BKs and PBKs to agree on this. No?

It surprises me that there does not seem to have been a debate on the following article in this forum. It argues that the description of the Silver Age does not match up with the evidence we have of that time. IMHO this is more important than some of the other discrepancies hotly debated here.

http://www.brahmakumaris.info/forum/vie ... =27&t=2839

Or perhaps it has been debated, and it is now a dead horse - in which case, ignore my post.
T.K

[fluffy bunny]

As regards change of clothes during this process, what BKs or PBKs do is that if they have a combined bath and toilet, they remove their clothes and then wear the same clothes after bathing. But where the bath and toilet are separate, they wear a towel or old dress to the toilet and wash it after using the toilet. So, they need not put clean clothes for washing every time they defecate.

I have not heard that version so there must be some variety of how it is practised around the family ... and, of course, center dwellers in the BK system have a higher standard. Do they not encourage you to at least put on clean underwear? This is where a simple, traditional Indian loincloth made out of lightweight cotton wins.

There are also slightly different standards for brothers versus sisters because of practical reasons and biological factors, e.g. washing the genital area after urinating due to 'drip factors' or smell.

I suspect that there are deeper or more subtle reasons, e.g. on a level of what might be called "aura cleansing", if one accepts those kinds of ideas. I always feel 'mentally' much better, or cleansed, after a bath or shower. Using water and soap is definitely much cleaner, and more ecological.

Toilet paper is a terribly wasteful luxury ... apart from tourists, is it spreading much in India?

As a young BK I had some hysterical experiences at work places trying to follow that rule, e.g. stripping off nude at work and climbing into high sinks to try and have a bucket bath. In those days, most of the West is not set up for that standard of hygiene.

Many other behaviours exist ... but comparable to the concept of cleanliness none compares nor even matches India´s spiritualy as the mother of civilization.

Rubbish ... India is still the world of open latrines and human waste removers.

Japan by far rules the world as far as cleanliness and hygiene ... with places like Germany and Scandinavia coming second.

[arjun]

As a young BK I had some hysterical experiences at work places trying to follow that rule, e.g. stripping off nude at work and climbing into high sinks to try and have a bucket bath. In those days, most of the West is not set up for that standard of hygiene.

I don't think this is practically possible to bathe in the office after relieving oneself. The primary reason is that in most Indian offices (or even abroad) they provide only urinals and not bathrooms. Secondly, in most cities homes are located very far away from offices. So you cannot run home every time you have the urge to defecate. In such cases what is practically possible is that you relieve yourself at office and bathe after going home and get into a different set of clothes.

[satyaprakash]

Why do BKs/PKs require one to bathe after using the toilet?
Is proper washing of the hands with soap not sufficient?
Do Hindu scriptures also require this practice?
Any other religions?

Hindus have many hundreds of rules for those born as Brahmins- not converted to brahmins as that is impossible as per scriptures. Brahmins need that purity as they have to chant the vedas and preserve the purity of mantras.
PBKs have lifted and exhibited one or two rules like bath after toilet etc only as an advertisement that they are like Brahmins. Discussion beyond this simple fact is a waste.

When you want to convert an ignorant unlettered person or an educated idiot, you cannot start with soul or soul consciousness. You start with something they understand like the latrine or toilet. Just take bath after toilet and you are a Brahmin. That poor fellow goes away satisfied that some one has given promotion to him.

When this fellow comes back he is made to sit in the seven day class- the teacher is another ignorant person who has mugged up some stories to be told here. What do you expect to happen after 7 days?

If any one has any doubt, the answer is- it is already told in 7 day class. Go back there!

Now TK should know the answer!
Satya.

[fluffy bunny]

I don't think this is practically possible to bathe in the office after relieving oneself. The primary reason is that in most Indian offices (or even abroad) they provide only urinals and not bathrooms.

There are different rules or expectations for center-dwellers, aren't there? I think this also goes back to the earlier days of the Yagya when most of the sisters stayed in "pure" centers and almost of the men went out into the "impure" world.

You'll be interested to know, and ought to encourage your Indian employers, that showers in office buildings are becoming far more common in the West ... most to cater for those who cycle to work.

Hindus have many hundreds of rules for those born as Brahmins - PBKs have lifted and exhibited one or two rules like bath after toilet etc only as an advertisement that they are like Brahmins. Discussion beyond this simple fact is a waste.

When this fellow comes back he is made to sit in the seven day class- the teacher is another ignorant person who has mugged up some stories to be told here. What do you expect to happen after 7 days?

Yes, I accept your point that a lot of the ritual of Brahmakumarism are designed to meet the expecations of what a "religious" person is supposed to do and are thoughtless aped to give the appearance of the habits of high caste born Brahmins and yogis. However, minor disciplines like bottomwashing are taught a long time after the essentials of "The Knowledge" ... often on an ad hoc basis. Their practice in the Western BK Order is even more absurd and uneven.

I've lived in a hot, humid country and could not have done so without taking numerous showers in a day. I am not adverse to this kind of washing at all ... without any pretensions of being either sort of Brahmin at all!

I am convinced that there is a more subtle explanations for why it is beneficial - or why it was initially thought to be beneficial by the Vedantists - that could even be described scientifically now, e.g. not just the removal of irritating salts or excretions but even by such ideas as the effect of negative ions in the air, and the electromagnetic absorption by water.

For me, I can feel the difference between bathing in city water and spring water which I believe is not purely down to their chemical composition.

Everyone finds showering or bathing mood changing. Spiritualistically minded individuals of all religion think of water as "purifying". The Jews also have many more prayers and rituals to do with washing than the BKs have.

What is the India tradition as regards soap? They used to use ash, did not they? Soap is a fairly recent invention and a luxury. What did they use in the old and poor days of the Yugya ... and perhaps still in the poorer village centers?

[arjun]

What is the India tradition as regards soap? They used to use ash, did not they? Soap is a fairly recent invention and a luxury. What did they use in the old and poor days of the Yugya ... and perhaps still in the poorer village centers?

Use of soap is now widespread. Ash or mud might still be in use but only in remote villages.

[fluffy bunny]

But, back in the 30s how would it have been?

[arjun]

But, back in the 30s how would it have been?

At that time people in the villages would defecate in the open (in fields or behind bushes) and people in the towns and cities did have latrines, but these latrines would not have flush/septic tank facilities. They used to be cleaned by manual scavengers. This system has since been banned by the Government of India, but may be prevalent in remote corners of India, unnoticed by public authorities.