Who is the author of VEDAS ??

[shivsena]

Question: Who is the author of the oldest scripture of the world: VEDAS.

Brothers are requested to share their views.
shivsena.
====================================

An American discovers the Vedas

Author : David Frawley
Publication : First Jagtik Rhugved Parishad
Date : December 27, 1996

Why would an American dedicate his life to studying the ancient
Vedas of India? And how could an American, coming from such a
different background, find a deep affinity with the Vedic
teachings, which most Hindus today themselves don't even relate to?
How did such a person get started in studying the Vedas? In the
modern world everyone, including Hindus, appears to be trying to
adopt Western culture with its scientific and technological
advances and economic affluence. Why would a person go the other
direction and look to the East, particularly when it was not a
matter of academic study, nor does it promise any material reward?


As I have written many books and articles on the Vedas and
travelled through America and India over the past few years
promoting Vedic knowledge, I am often asked such questions,
particularly by Indo-Americans, who usually do not have the time
and are lacking in the motivation to examine their own tradition.
Confronted with an American dedicated to the Vedas, Hindus find me
not only an anomaly but also a question mark on what they
themselves may be doing. Sometimes they find it an inspiration to
re-examine their own roots.


This is a difficult query to try to answer. I will begin by
relating something of my life. There is really nothing in my
family or educational background that might explain my connection
with the Vedas or even India. I was the second of a family of ten
children, born in a small city in Wisconsin in the Midwest in 1950.
Both my parents came from strict Catholic backgrounds and were
raised on dairy farms. One of my uncles in fact was a priest and
missionary to South America (which example my mother wanted me
personally to follow).


My parents, education was minimal. My mother did not even go to
high school. My Father went to college only briefly, and served in
the army for several years. Though they were both open minded
people they never oriented me in the direction of India or anything
mystical.


I myself went to Catholic school until the fifth grade (age ten).
We were taught to look on Protestants with suspicion. Asia was like
another world, a land of backward, primititive people needing
conversion. After much moving about, as my Father was a realtor,
we finally settled down in Denver, Colorado. There, owing to the
financial burden of so many children, we switched to public school
which brought us out of the shell of Catholic beliefs. Yet public
schools had no real mention of India either, except as a big
country in Asia suffering from poverty and overpopulation.


I had an inquisitive mind as a child and began developing my own
studies outside of school, perhaps because my mother encouraged me
in such things. I had an interest in geography since seven or eight
years of age and became aware that there was much more to the world
than America. Foreign lands of all types fascinated me. I began
reading various books starting with science and history, which
broadened my view of life and caused me to question my Catholic
upbringing and its dogma. I found the ideas of modern astronomy
with the vastness of the universe and the relativity of time and
space to be much more intriguing than Catholic views of creation.


I left the Catholic church at the age of fourteen. This came not
only from the clash between the church and modem science, but from
having read history and discovered that the church often stood for
political oppression and social exploitation, not anything truly
holy I felt that if there was a God, it was an impersonal reality,
not a personal God with his own whims, judgements and partialities.
Yet though I left the church, I still felt that there was a
spiritual reality in life, which I found in nature, particularly in
the mountains which I loved, This spiritual reality was an inner
experience quite divorced from churches and creeds.


By the time of high school my own studies were of more interest
than classes in school. I had a kind of intellectual awakening when
about the age of sixteen which caused me to study European
literature and philosophy, particularly symbolic poets and
existential philosophers. I felt that American culture was very
superficial compared to the European. Yet examining the mystical
and poetic sides of the European mind, I also eventually found them
to be lacking. I saw that the great intellectuals and artists of
the West, the geniuses who were regarded as the highest human
types, were still plagued with doubt, depression and uncertainty.
They obviously had not found any lasting peace or ultimate truth.


About the same time, as a secondary interest I began examining the
Eastern spiritual traditions of Hinduism, Buddhism and Taoism. Some
of this came as part of the sixties counterculture movement, which
included a fascination with Eastern gurus and teachings, but much
of it was the product of my own independent and generally more
philosophical search. Between these teachings I found a common
truth-consciousness as the supreme reality and meditation as the
way to realize that. Yet it was among the teachings of Yoga and
Vedanta that I found the views which most resonated with my inner
being, particular the sense of the supreme Self (Atman) and pure
Existence (Brahman) as the highest truth. For example, I remember
walking home from high school one day and looking up at the blue
sky and realizing that it was the presence of Krishna, who
represented the cosmic power of bliss. This was before
encountering the Hare Krishna movement and was not produced by any
outer influences.

About this time I also came into contact with local spiritual
teachers and Yoga groups in Denver, through which I learned of
various gurus and practices, including Yoga and meditation, which I
began to do on a regular basis. A couple of years later I
travelled to California and visited many of the spiritual groups
based in America. I had more interest in India itself and teachings
that were more traditional. I had a serious bent of mind and did
not feel satisfied with these groups which were largely social
movements or cults centered around one person, in which one's
personal relationship with the teacher generally outweighed any
real interest in spiritual studies. I have always distrusted mass
movements and fads of all types, including the pop spirituality
that has developed in the West.


I came to learn of the teachings of great modem Hindu gurus of
India most notably Ramakrishna, Ramana Maharshi, Anandamayi Ma, and
Sri Aurobindo, Their I felt something truly solid and real. As
several of these figures had already passed away, I wrote to their
centres in India and developed contact with some of their living
disciples. Most notably I corresponded with Anandamayi Maa for
several years, who was still alive at the time. But more so than
any particular teacher the Vedantic teaching interested me,
particularly the Upanishads, which appeared as the ideal
combination of spiritual philosophy and poetry. I felt in them the
core teaching that I was looking for in all spiritual teachings.


This led me to the works of Shankaracharya, the great commentator
on the Upanishads according to the system of Advaita Vedanta. The
Advaitic view of the pure unity of truth and the illusory nature of
the world, agreed with my experience of life through the political
and social turbulence of the late sixties and early seventies. Yet
I was also drawn towards the earlier Vedas and their Mysterious
mantras, with which most Vedantic teachers have little concern. I
had a sense of things ancient and wanted to know the earliest
teachings of humanity. The idea of things ancient rishis and seers
appealed to me and I wanted to know who they were.


I also had a poetic bent of mind and wrote poetry of a mystical and
symbolic type since I was sixteen. I used images of the dawn and
the night, fire, the wind, and the sun, along with gods and
goddesses, with the forces of nature appearing as powers of both
the human and cosmic mind in their interplay. Later I found that
these same images predominated in the Vedas themselves.


Of the great modern yogis, Sri Aurobindo was the greatest poet, and
so naturally his work had a certain appeal to me on this level. The
beginning of the chapters in his book the Life Divine contained
various Vedic quotes, particularly from the Rig Veda, which I found
to be particularly inspiring. I noted in a list of his books that
he had several on the Vedas themselves. This aroused my interest
in the Vedas and I ordered these books and studied them with great
interest, meditating carefully upon them.


My encounters with the Vedas through these books were not mere
intellectual experiences. They represented a contact with the
Divine Word, Vak or the Divine Speech, the Goddess Sarasvati. I
felt the presence of the Vedic Dawn, like the Dawn of humanity, the
beginning. of creation, and the building of a new world for the
Divine. This began my study of the Vedas, which was rooted in
poetry with a background of Vedanta.


Yet I was not satisfied in simply following Sri Aurobindo's
interpretation. I wanted to know what the Vedic rishis themselves
saw and felt. A few years later when I was twenty-seven, having
gone through most of what was available in English on the Vedas, I
decided to look at the Vedas and Upanishads in the original
Sanskrit. As there were no teachers available to me, as I was then
living in a remote town in Northern California, I started with the
Sanskrit. texts and a Sanskrit grammar book and began trying to
figure out the language myself, starting with the oldest Rig Veda
itself. It was a rather unusual and haphazard way to learn
Sanskrit, starting with the most difficult and oldest part of the
language, but somehow it worked.


The Vedic language gradually unfolded its meaning through a study
of the images, sounds and roots upon which the language was based.
I felt an inner affinity with the teaching so that I did not find
the texts to be difficult, though the grammar was often cumbersome.
I soon discovered that the interpretations generally accepted for
the older Vedas-not only those done by modern Western scholars but
the traditional school of Sayana-as Aurobindo had noted, were
indeed erroneous. The result of this research was that I produced a
small volume on the Upanishads and the Vedas. It traced back the
Vendantic teaching of the universal Self found in the Upanishads to
an origin in an earlier and more powerful Vedic vision. This was
opposite the way it is usually explained, which is to view the
Upanishads as exalted philosophy developing from a crude Vedic
ritualistic base.


A friend of mine, who had recently become a disciple of M.P. Pandit
of the Sri Aurobindo Ashram, recommended me to visit him during an
upcoming trip of his to America. I knew that if anyone would
understand what I was doing it would be him, as Pandit had done
many books on the Vedas and Upanishads, with similar ideas.


I explained my views to him that the Vedas contained a science of
Self realization hidden in their teaching, from their very first
mantra to the Divine Fire (Agni). He was happy to know of my work
and told me that he would help publish it in India. He encouraged
me to follow out my studies, which he explained was a kind of
Divine mission given to me.


I told him that I was not academically trained, nor had I yet
studied in India, and that my work was merely personal and never
intended for publication. I said that I did not feel qualified to
comment on the Vedas in a public way He replied that it was good
that I Wasn't academically trained, that it gave me a direct and
independent insight, so that I would not just merely repeat the
same errors as other scholars. He told me to trust my vision. If
I had such insights and had produced such work it was for a purpose
and should not be limited to my own private study


Naturally this moved me to continue my Vedic work with more effort
and dedication. I worked on the Rig Veda itself and in four months
had produced a five hundred page book on the Vedas, which I mailed
to Pandit and he began serializing in World Union and other
publications of the Sri Aurobindo Ashram.


I began sending articles out to other publications in India as
well, including to the ashram publications of Ramana Maharshi and
Anandamayi Ma, as well as to Motilal Banarsidass, the main
publisher of Indological books and these articles were almost
invariably published, which additionally encouraged me to go
further. Thus my Vedic work began spontaneously and independently I
sort of naturally fell into it. I never had a plan to do so. And
in retrospect it would appear to be a ludicrous thing to attempt,
particularly by someone at my age and background working largely on
his own.


After developing this foundation I gained many contacts and much
support for my work throughout the world, though it took over ten
years to get it recognized in a broader way. I have since taken
many trips to India and studied and discussed the Vedas with many
teachers, which would require separate stories to relate. I have
worked with Ayurveda and Vedic astrology as well, expanding the
range of my original Vedic research. But the basic core of my
Vedic views has not changed.


What was it that I discovered in the Vedas? What made the Vedas
more important to me than other spiritual or intellectual
teachings? It was not just philosophy or poetry of an exalted
nature. Nor was it the later portion of the Vedas alone, the
Upanishads that drew my interest. It was the most ancient Rig Veda
itself and its wealth of mantras and symbols. The Rig Veda for me
is the doorway to mind of the rishis, to the cosmic mind itself,
the heart of creation. The Vedic vision is a universal mantric
knowledge that integrates all aspects of human knowledge including
Yoga, philosophy, poetry, psychology, mythology and ritual. The
Vedas are like an ongoing explosion of insights, with every sort of
color and form, merging ultimately into a pure lightning
illumination that has no end.


For me the Vedas are a living teaching and the Vedic rishis are
living teachers. There is no gap of time or culture between us and
the Vedas. The Vedas transcend time. Nor do I see the Vedas as
merely Indian; they are the heritage of the greater spiritual
humanity from which we have fallen and to which we must return.
The Vedas are part of us or, to be more accurate, we are part of
the Vedas. They are the very fabric of the cosmic intelligence
that works inside us and in all the universe upholding the great
beauty and harmony of life. The Vedas exist at the core of all
real seeking to connect with truth through the great forces of
nature and consciousness, whether it is in the form of Native
American, Ancient Creek, Egyptian, or even modem scientific
approaches. In that connecting to the universal being and its
powers lies the Vedas, and there the Vedas must eventually be
found. The Vedas are not merely particular books-though the Vedic
texts we do have are authentic-but are the very vibrations of the
Divine Word, the Primal Sound, the voice of original reality.


I don't find the Vedic mantras to be hard to understand. What
could be more obvious than the dawn and the sun that rises every
day? Yet the dawn and the sun are not outer realities, they are
outer symbols, intimations of an inner reality of enlightenment and
illumination that is our true home. The Vedas are the language of
nature not as outer phenomena but as a poetry of the spirit, which
is the real meaning and beauty of creation. To me what is hard to
understand is not the Vedas but the modern world with its
technology that alienates us from nature, its commercialism that
warps our minds, its endless desires and sensations, its artificial
dogmas and ideologies, compared to which the Vedic world is indeed
paradise.


The final answer as to my connection with the Vedas perhaps goes
back to the truth of karma and rebirth. There is really no reason
why someone of my background would take to this Vedic work and be
able to go anywhere with it. The only answer is the samskaras, the
impressions from previous births. This was a knowledge that came
with me, that I was born with, the result of a previous life which
I have since come to remember in various aspects. For example,
when I received my first copies the Vedas in Sanskrit it was not
something ancient or foreign that I saw but an old friend and
companion.


Nor do I approach the Vedas from an academic or even personal
perspective. To approach the Vedas I first put my mind into a
silent state and let the teaching unfold itself without the
interference's of my own though there is not done through a mental
effort, though there is the effort of concentration. It is like
opening an irrigation channel to great river.


It is the great beauty of the Hindu religion that the impressions
it creates in us remain with us life after life. It is not a
religion limited to one life only, and its benefit carries through
all of our lives to the final liberation. In this regard the
impressions of the Vedas can be found in each one of us, if we know
how to look deeply for them. While unusual, I don't think what I
have experienced with the Vedas is unique. I think that many more
people, East and West, will come to it in the future. The Vedas
are not only. our most ancient past but the key to our global
future as well.


The message of my encounter with the Vedas to modem Hindus is this:
Your spiritual tradition is perhaps the greatest treasure of all
humanity. Please cherish it, sustain it, practise it and share it
with all. Whatever deficiencies may be in India or Hindu culture
economically or politically, should not get a person to forget the
power of the Vedas. The Vedas are like the sun. In them is the
key to all light, life and love for all the world, through which
all problems, individual or collective, can be solved. Let us not
forget our Vedic heritage.


====================================================

[satyaprakash]

Question: Who is the author of the oldest scripture of the world: VEDAS.

I am surprised to see this typical Hindu article in this forum. This beautiful and spiritual article is written by David Frawley, a great modern saintly person
Answer: Vedas are not a single piece of work. It is a recording of several thousand years. No one wrote the Vedas. These are divine vibrations picked up by great maha Rishis of those ages. It was always recognised that the sound of these mantras are far more important than the meanings. Hence these were preserved by Brahmin caste over thousands of years and what mantras we chant today is the same that was chanted perhaps thousands of years ago.
It is stated that Maharishi Vyasa collected them and ordered them into 4 parts, namely: Rig, Yajus, Sama and Atharvana Veda. Vyasa is not the author. He was the 'editor and publisher'!

The message of my (David Frawley) encounter with the Vedas to modem Hindus is this:
Your spiritual tradition is perhaps the greatest treasure of all
humanity. Please cherish it, sustain it, practice it and share it
with all. Whatever deficiencies may be in India or Hindu culture
economically or politically, should not get a person to forget the
power of the Vedas. The Vedas are like the sun. In them is the
key to all light, life and love for all the world, through which
all problems, individual or collective, can be solved. Let us not
forget our Vedic heritage.

.
Both BKs and PBKs are a very narrow cults. Is this great message from Frawley of any use to them? They will keep uttering their non-sense mantra of 'world is ending. Everyone will die except Virendra Dev Dixit and PBKs.Rush to Kampil and surrender to Virendra Dev Dixit.'etc. Why should they bother about origin of Vedas or the power of Veda mantras? You are not likely to get any reply from any cult brother or cult sister!
Satya

[sita]

Vedas are very long, i doubt someone here have read them. I think they have won their place and are highly regarded by everyone, no one denies their value. But it is wrong to point them as path to salvatio, is there anyone who achieved that through reading them, has the world been benefited through them. One may say it is because people turn their face away from them, but i don't think so, people are interested in them, but don't know what to do with them. But it is naive to think the whole world would turn to them and earth will become paradise, through this.

If Vedas brig some digity to Hindu, that they belong to this civilization that created them, then propaganda of the vedas in their essence is something right. If one cannot study the whole of them, at least it is good to catch the essence. But the idea that God descends in India can also be a matter of pride.

[shivsena]

To all bk-pbk brothers.

Sharing a good link which contains the views of great personalities about the Vedas and important links which praise the Divine Mother.

http://www.adishakti.org/_/great_mother ... _vedas.htm
============================================================================

[satyaprakash]

To all bk-pbk Brothers.

Both BK and PBK claim that they are not Hindus! Why address them on an article praising Hindus and their Vedas?
I am neither PBK or BK. But I enjoyed your link and the information there.
Thanks
Satya

[arjun]

Both BK and PBK claim that they are not Hindus!

We belong to the Adi Sanatan Devi Devata Dharma which is more ancient than Hinduism.

[satyaprakash]

Adi Sanatan Devi Devata Dharma

Where is the reference for this name in any history or any scripture of the world? Do not quote your own cult works or cult cds in support. That is for PBKs. What about others? Why should they believe you or your Virendra Dev Dixit baba?
Do you know as to when Hinduism or Sanatana Dharma started? When did your haaWooJumbaJumba cult started? Does your baba know?
You can also say you belong to haaWooJumbaJumba cult which is more ancient! It is the same!
Satya.

[arjun]

Where is the reference for this name in any history or any scripture of the world? Do not quote your own cult works or cult cds in support. That is for PBKs. What about others? Why should they believe you or your Veerendra Dev Dixit Baba?
Do you know as to when Hinduism or Sanatana Dharma started? When did your haaWooJumbaJumba cult started? Does your Baba know?
You can also say you belong to haaWooJumbaJumba cult which is more ancient! It is the same!

Om Shanti. Old habits die hard. :D

[satyaprakash]

Om Shanti. Old habits die hard.

True. As per old habit, both pbk cult and haaWooJumbaJumba cult, which was created recently claim that they are the most ancient. As both Babas have no other proof, other than making this claim, either both are true or both are false. We have no proof that they are false. So both are true. This leads to the logical conclusion that both these cults are same as only one can be most ancient!
This means we can now on wards call the pbk people as haaWooJumbaJumba cult people. Or we can call haaWooJumbaJumba cult Baba as pbk baba. So ensure that you keep your envelopes with money ready as the haaWooJumbaJumba cult Baba is coming to your place very shortly!

OM JUMBA!

Satya.

[shivsena]

Why should they bother about origin of Vedas or the power of Veda mantras? You are not likely to get any reply from any cult Brother or cult Sister!
Satya

Dear satya Bhai.

I started this thread of vedas just to co-relate the Bhakti-marg vedas and the behad ka vedas of the Sangamyugi drama, as i find many similarities between the two.

According to scriptures, mataa Saraswati is the Mother Bhakti-marg vedas, which are understood by very few outside world souls and imo, the Sangamyugi vedas (Sakar Murlis) are narrated by mataa Saraswati(goddess of intellect), wherein the gems of knowledge are very difficult to understand.... Worldly Vedas are interpreted differently by different souls and Mother Saraswati has set up an intellectual game in Sangamyug, who will interpret the Murli points differently, thus making them numberwise....and in the end each soul will see his own face(part) in the mirror of knowledge as per his interpretations of Murlis ( " Gyan ek darpan ban jaayega.")
shivsena.

[satyaprakash]

According to scriptures, mataa Saraswati is the Mother Bhakti-marg vedas,

Can you tell me as to which scripture tells the above? I have only heard that Goddess Saraswathi is the God of knowledge.
As far as I know knowledge consists of Bhakti and Gnana. There is nothing called as Bhakti marg vedas. This term is used by the cult people only.
Satya.

[shivsena]

Can you tell me as to which scripture tells the above? I have only heard that Goddess Saraswathi is the God of knowledge.
Satya.

Dear satya Bhai.

I do not have the original scriptures as proof that Maa Saraswati is the mother of vedas....whatever knowledge about hinduism and the ancient scriptures i have imbibed is by reading the various articles written by Hindu scholars on the internet.
==========================================================

Saraswati, Mother of the Vedas.
By Jay B Jacob

Known as the goddess of creative arts, music and knowledge, Saraswati is the representation of the flow of consciousness and wisdom. The Vedas are her children and they are known to chant to her the song "Saraswati Vandana". She is the daughter of Goddess Durga and Lord Shiva, with influence that endows human beings the power of learning, wisdom and speech. Get to know the Mother of Vedas intimately by reading on.

In order to appreciate her, you have to envision first what she looks like and the following are details of the goddess features. She has four hands, which represent the human personalities or aspects such as ego, alertness, intellect and mind. In her paintings, she usually holds a book considered as the sacred Vedas. This represents true, eternal, divine and universal knowledge. She would also have a mala on her other hand which is a rosary made of crystals. This represents spirituality and the power one could get from meditation.

She also holds a pot filled with sacred water that symbolizes purification and creative powers. Her musical instrument called the veena that shows her perfection and mastery of all sciences and arts. Her many attributes is the reason why Hindus believed that those born with her name would be very blessed in their work and studies.

Saraswati in some of her wallpapers or photos seen on a river riding either a peacock or a swan, and this implies her being the goddess of the river of knowledge. She rides a peacock because it symbolizes pride and arrogance as the animal is indeed beautiful. However, she mounts the peacock not to inspire people to be arrogant and be full of pride but rather to disregard external appearance and always be wise about eternal truth.

A sacred bird called the hamsa would usually sit beside her feet. There is one story going on that says, when offered water and milk the bird will only drink the milk, since the milk is good for the body and therefore better than water. This means also that one should know how to discriminate between good and bad.. Due to Saraswati's connection to the bird, she is also called a Hamsavahini that means someone who uses the hamsa as a vehicle.

Saraswati would be dressed in pure white as she mounts a white swan. This symbolizes Sattwa Guna or discrimination and purity. As part of an old tradition, only the educated ones worship her asking for wisdom and knowledge. Students who have important tests would often pray to her for guidance.
===============================================================================

For more information you can visit the following links or you can write "Saraswati-mother of vedas" on google search and read the praises of Maa Saraswati.

http://www.sacredwind.com/sarasvati.php
http://hinduism.about.com/od/hindugodde ... aswati.htm

shivsena.

[satyaprakash]

Dear Shivsena,
I asked about specific scripture references. The article by Jay B Jacob is a very general stuff about Saraswati. No answer here!
These westerners pick up some stuff here and there and write articles without any deep knowledge. When they get frustrated with their religion they come to other religions or India looking for solutions. Here they cannot become Hindus as they do not have a caste. So they end up with some road side Baba who promises them knowledge. After the Baba takes away most of their money they come out of the cult and call themselves as ex-abc or ex-pqr! Many cults also were from such Babas only. Now they got some money and property fleeced from their followers, they seem to be over sized! So don't quote such people as the reference!

I do not have the original scriptures as proof that Maa Saraswati is the mother of vedas....whatever knowledge about hinduism and the ancient scriptures i have imbibed is by reading the various articles written by Hindu scholars on the internet.

Unfortunately there is more garbage on the net than real stuff! You may have to study some books written by reputed Hindu saints. Or spend time in studying the translation of Bagavad Gita or Bagavatam in full. Half knowledge is no good!

Answer: Vedas are not a single piece of work. It is a recording of several thousand years. No one wrote the Vedas. These are divine vibrations picked up by great maha Rishis of those ages. It was always recognised that the sound of these mantras are far more important than the meanings. Hence these were preserved by Brahmin caste over thousands of years and what mantras we chant today is the same that was chanted perhaps thousands of years ago.
It is stated that Maharishi Vyasa collected them and ordered them into 4 parts, namely: Rig, Yajus, Sama and Atharvana Veda. Vyasa is not the author. He was the 'editor and publisher'!

The above is my answer.
Of course all knowledge is attributed to God and not necessarily from their mouth. Some fancy cults like pbk claim that god himself is speaking into the cds! This may impress the cult followers, but others know the facts! Even if you ask 2 questions to them - they first answer by asking counter question- when you persist with your original questions, they start shivering and calling for their mother to save them!
Satya.

[shivsena]

Dear satya Bhai.

My firm belief is that, whatever happened in Sangamyug(at the end of Kaliyug of one Kalpa) is written in story-form in the next Kalpa dwapuryug onwards...and i am just trying to co-relate the happenings in Sangamyug to what is written in scriptures of all religions of the outside world....that is all, in a nutshell.

shivsena.

[satyaprakash]

My firm belief is that, whatever happened in Sangamyug(at the end of Kaliyug of one Kalpa) is written in story-form in the next Kalpa dwapuryug onwards.

Where did you get this idea or belief? Is it having any basis other the words of some one respected by you?
Satya.