We are straying away from the subject of this discussion topic. What has happened to the young girls of the AIVV and who was behind it.Sach_Khand wrote:As it seems you are more intellectual and logical in approach and do not want to be caged in any rules and regulations of BKs, I suggest you to read Vivekanada. I hope it will help you to progress further in your efforts of knowing Indian culture and also in Yoga.
However, I will rreply because I have good news for you and others. The teachings of Vivekananda are available on the internet for free. Yes, it was reading works such as his (Raja Yoga) and others that led me to search and be misguided by the Brahma Kumaris. I also think you are correct. Westerners in pursuit of Hinduism and Buddhism tend to approach it in a dry, intellectual manner, through books and theoretical discussion and aesthetic appreciation, rather than practise ... because up until the 70s or even later, they had no chance to have any real immersion experience and it was a fairly elite interest. From the late 60s, only ISKCON, the "Hare Krishnas", were the only opportunity one could have and, as you know, theirs is an obscure path too.
The Theosophical Society published many of the classics. Paramahansa Yogananda was mythologised unrealistically. Paramahansa Yogananda, Jiddu Krishnamurti, Yogendra Mastamani, Yogi Bhajan, Swamis Nityananda and Muktananda, Sri Aurobindo, Ramana Maharshi, B.K.S. Iyengar all had a followers. TM became popular ... and then later the yogic businessmen like Bikram were to move in, but it was not until East African Indian immigration started that we had any chance to meet real Indians. Even our Indian restaurants were run by Muslim Bangladeshis instead. Post-BK I have visited local, as in non-fashion, non-cult Hindu ashrams, and was friends with the men who run the local Hindu association. I think I get on better with Indians than Whites. I would like to live in a vegetarian district like they have in India.
Perhaps you can introduce me to a suitable wife and I can come and live nearby you?
(I read once of 1500 followers of the Dera Sacha Sauda guru who stepped forward to be willing to marry ex-prostitutes in order to save them. I thought that was fantastic. True spiritual compassion in action.)
You are also right. We White BKs used to taken and do "BK Service" on the Indian streets of a Western cities. The Indian BKs used to take us there, and to rich Sindhi households, to show us off, literally saying, "Look, Whites do it too ... Whites follow the BKs" as a salespitch. And they used to make us dress smart, cut our hair etc so look more respectable.
Few to none of them non-BK Indians wanted to join because they all wanted to be White essentially, chasing material advancement, e.g. girls, cars, houses and business ... and, even though many were very successful (esp. the Sikhs and Sindhi) most of them ran dodgy businesses and took their money back home. I even asked young Brahma Kumaris whether they wanted to go back to India, as we fantasied about living there, and they all said, "No!". They hated the flues, smells, and messes, and liked the running hot water, central heating and life here.
BTW, I have no problem with the basic rules of BKs. I was vegetarian, non-smoker, non-drinker etc before I met them.
fluffy bunny wrote:Their living condition should not be measured against Western standards but Indian standards ... the living standards of an old man, widow or ex-prostitute without any family. By those standards, trust me they are enjoying splendid wealth and comforts.
I don't think there is anything wrong in the original statement. Perhaps I should have clarified by using "including the livings standards of ...".Sach_Khand wrote:I consider this as abusive. And if this continues I wish that admin of this forum should ban fluffy from this forum. And I mean it and serious about this.
I know there is a extreme wealth and a large middle class in India, but the whole world also knows the disproportionately high incidence of chronic poverty among historically marginalised groups such as scheduled castes, scheduled tribes, the elderly, women and the disabled. I was watching a documentary about the young girls sold, often by their parents as Devadasi sex slaves and what happened to them, and the state of the sex workers in Mumbai (the largest sex industry centre in Asia). I am sorry but nothing in the West compares, e.g. I.2 million child prostitutes, 100 m people involved in trafficking according to the CBI. There would be outrage if there was.
I have no idea what you are taking offence about. I know you do not agree with it. I know you are not responsible for it. We have all seen people sh*tting in public at a train stations, or even on trains, and then some low caste "half-human*" or handicap person having to remove it for them. In the West, we invented sanitary plumbing and social welfare and healthcare systems so humans did not have to.
What went wrong? Why did India lose its advantage after Mohenjo Daro and Harappa?
Again, this is strange but true, and in a way it is historically true but the formalised hatha Yoga of which you talk is a 19th Century modern invention. I don't understand this except that Western equal power and wealth and that is what matters most. The funny thing is that when Westerners have power and wealth, individually or as a class, a significant proportion then give it up and seek spirituality.Sach_Khand wrote:The tragedy of India and Indians is that for anything indigeous to become authenticated, Indians needs a stamp from westerners.
* BTW, I use "half-human" not because that is what I think but because that is how they are treated.
