Adi-so-anth.

[shivsena]

Dear roy Bhai.

“Everything, whatever happened in the beginning (of the Confluence Age), has to happen in the end.” [Mu 18.10.72]
The above point says that ''whatever happened in the beginning will be repeated in the end"(adi-so-anth)

In the beginning, Mama jagdamba and her group of surrendered sisters(shivshaktis as they were called) met with severe resistance and criticism by the outside world(bharatwasis) for propagating a neo-knowledge (not mentioned in the worldly scriptures)....so imo, the same thing is going to be repeated at the end of behad ka drama...no. 1 shivshakti (avaykt Mama ) and those(shivshakti-pandavsena) who believe in her touchings, will meet the same resistance and criticism (maybe more) from the behad ka bharatwasis(PBKs).

shivsena.

[arjun]

In the beginning, Mama jagdamba and her group of surrendered Sisters(shivshaktis as they were called) met with severe resistance and criticism by the outside world(bharatwasis) for propagating a neo-knowledge (not mentioned in the worldly scriptures)....so imo, the same thing is going to be repeated at the end of behad ka drama...no. 1 shivshakti (avaykt Mama ) and those(shivshakti-pandavsena) who believe in her touchings, will meet the same resistance and criticism (maybe more) from the behad ka bharatwasis(PBKs).

In the beginning Om Radhey Mama had a physical body and faced the outside world through a physical body. Similarly in the end the Shaktis playing a part along with the practical part of ShivBaba will face resistance from the outside world and from wicked elements within the Brahmin family.

How can Avyakt Mama (shivshakti acc.to you) face resistance when she does not have any face at all at present?

[shivsena]

How can Avyakt Mama (shivshakti acc.to you) face resistance when she does not have any face at all at present?

The obsession of the physical body is clearly seen in all your posts and the other PBKs' posts.....when all avaykt Vanis repeatedly tell us to become farishtas(by forgetting the physical body)....i do not understand why PBKs do not follow the teachings of Vanis and give undue inportance to teachings of a deh-dhari guru.

[RudraPutra]

The obsession of the physical body is clearly seen in all your posts and the other PBKs' posts.....when all avaykt Vanis repeatedly tell us to become farishtas(by forgetting the physical body)....i do not understand why PBKs do not follow the teachings of Vanis and give undue inportance to teachings of a deh-dhari guru.

....you are absolutely correct.....forgetting the physical body is not leaving the physical body.....but to be away from the corporeal stage....but the concept of your interest is to leave the body...and to become farishta like Om Radhey Mama....

[arjun]

The obsession of the physical body is clearly seen in all your posts and the other PBKs' posts.....when all avaykt Vanis repeatedly tell us to become farishtas(by forgetting the physical body)....i do not understand why PBKs do not follow the teachings of Vanis and give undue inportance to teachings of a deh-dhari guru.

Please do not spread lies. There is not a single Avyakt Vani which asks us to leave this body and become farishta. Avyakt Vanis always say that farishta is someone who does not have any rishta (relationship) with farsh (land/body consciousness) while being in this world and not by leaving this body. Leaving this body is utter cowardness. Subtlebodied beings are not worshipped anywhere in India. If you wish to lay the foundation for such rituals and spend many births in foreign countries and foreign religions you are most welcome to do so.

[RudraPutra]

About the criticism,
in Murli it has been said
"Sabse jyaasti glaani ShivBaba ki hai.Doosre number par yah Brahma ki hai."
"Most criticism is of ShivBaba.In second place it is Brahma"
....it is not said Saraswati jagadamba....
....even now in arya samaji's (who had opposed firmly) Dada Lekhraj's name is used for criticism and Om Radhey Mama is hardly touched in their criticism....(eventhough not completely)

[arjun]

no. 1 shivshakti (avaykt Mama ) ....will meet same resistance and criticism (maybe more) from the behad ka bharatwasis(PBKs).

Neither ShivBaba (through Baba Dixit) nor PBKs ever criticized Om Radhey Mama. We just say that she is not the no.1 soul. She becomes Radha or Lakshmi along with Dada Lekhraj (soul of Krishna) in the Golden Age. So, the above statement of shivsena Bhai is a great lie.

[shivsena]

Neither ShivBaba (through Baba Dixit) nor PBKs ever criticized Om Radhey Mama. We just say that she is not the no.1 soul. She becomes Radha or Lakshmi along with Dada Lekhraj (soul of Krishna) in the Golden Age. So, the above statement of shivsena Bhai is a great lie.

It is true that baba dixit never criticised Mama Saraswati as he knows she is rachieta ShivBaba...but those PBKs who have been calling her a dead body(and not recognising her as no. 1 avaykt farishta) are certainly defaming her.

[Roy]

It has been mentioned in Murlis/Vanis that ''whatever happened in the beginning will be repeated in the end"(adi-so-anth)In the beginning, Mama jagdamba and her group of surrendered sisters(shivshaktis as they were called) met with severe resistance and criticism by the outside world(bharatwasis) for propagating a neo-knowledge (not mentioned in the worldly scriptures)....so imo, the same thing is going to be repeated at the end of behad ka drama...no. 1 shivshakti (avaykt Mama ) and those(shivshakti-pandavsena) who believe in her touchings, will meet the same resistance and criticism (maybe more) from the behad ka bharatwasis(PBKs).

Dear Shivsena Bhai

I must echo Arjun Bhai here, in that Mama will not have a body to face anyone. Baba Dixit(Prajapita) who was there at the very beginning; tried to oppose the acceptance of the devilish children into the Yagya. At the very end of the Confluence Age, when he becomes bapsaman(albeit in a different costume); he succeeds in revealing or exposing these devilish souls, to the Brahmin family. He's had opposition from the word go; but will very soon be victorious. As for criticism of Mama, none of us here are indulging in this... our criticism, is of your theory, that she is ShivBaba!

The obsession of the physical body is clearly seen in all your posts and the other PBKs' posts.....when all avaykt Vanis repeatedly tell us to become farishtas(by forgetting the physical body)....i do not understand why PBKs do not follow the teachings of Vanis and give undue inportance to teachings of a deh-dhari guru.

May i point you in the direction of a post i made a litle earlier; which i believe totally clarifies this point....

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=2298&p=38895#p38895

Also, here are some further points you may find interesting...

"When you remain stable in just one thought for all the time, there will be success. When many thoughts arise, there cannot be a stable stage. When you keep the one who became perfect in front of you, you will become perfect." [Av 13.2.70]

When this Prajapita Brahma who is corporeal now, becomes complete(perfect), destroys all his sins, he becomes an angel. [20.1.78]

Prajapita Brahma is well known, isn’t it? He meets even now. Prajapita Brahma is corporeal. Incorporeal and corporeal are together. Both are in the highest position. Nobody is higher than them. And look in such a simple way he sits. [16.12.71]

So imo, the one one who became perfect(bapsaman), who ShivBaba is in combination with to take us to heaven(Prajapita Brahma), is the one we should keep in front. Unfortunately, he(Baba Dixit) still has a body; so you will have to work around this, Shivsena Bhai! :D

Baba is sitting in his body. So surely one will be reminded of (his) body also. (Children think that) such soul present in such a body possesses such virtues.[7.4.84]

And just in case you wish to cite, that it is Mama who is being referred to in the point; then i feel the need to quote this point also...

"Mama-Baba will also go, many other children will also go in advance... it is not that Mama-Baba had attained complete stage. Complete stage will be attained at the end." [10.11.88]

But while I am on this subject, there are also these points to contend with...

ShivBaba is called Ram. But they have thought the Supreme Soul to be Ram. [14.4.76]

Actually my name is not Ram. I am not worshipped (by people) keeping Ram in mind. I am worshipped as Shiva or Rudra. [16.11.76]

If ShivBaba doesn’t play any role he will be of no use. He wouldn’t have any value. He will be held valuable only when he bestows true salvation (sadgati) upon the whole world. Only then is he praised as Ram, the bestower of true salvation on all. [16.12.74]

Father only comes and gives the inheritance of heaven. People cry out for him only.... O Ram! O God! [29.1.75]

"Now you have become children of Prajapita Brahma. You know that ShivBaba will take you to heaven through Prajapita Brahma." [Mu 18.4.73]

"Incorporeal Godfather cannot do any work without corporeal Father(Prajapita), He cannot play any role." [Av 6.12.1976]

His soul's name is Shiva. The whole world knows this. All these remaining names are given to the bodies. Shankar's name is also based upon his body. Soul is just a soul. But names are given to the bodies, like Vishnu and Shankar. Nobody tells, "O soul come here." [Mu 23.3.76]

Shankar is also a deity. They have then combined Shiva and Shankar. Now Father says, “I have entered into this body.” Therefore, you say Baap-Dada, but they say Shiv-Shankar. They don't say Shankar-Shiv. They say Shiv-Shankar. [11-2-75]

I feel these points make it quite clear, that Prajapita, Ram and Shankar, are the same soul; the Chariot of Father Shiv through whom the inheritance of heaven is given, following the destruction of ignorance, the demonic souls of the Yagya, and the bodyconscious degraded religions of the world.

Roy

[arjun]

It is true that Baba dixit never criticised Mama Saraswati as he knows she is rachieta ShivBaba...but those PBKs who have been calling her a dead body(and not recognising her as no. 1 avaykt farishta) are certainly defaming her.

Why do you indulge in doublespeak again and again. First you say Om Radhey faces the maximum criticism from PBKs and then you accept that Baba Dixit never criticized Om Radhey Mama. I think you should first clear your own confusion as to what do you wish to state or prove.

PBKs never argued against Om Radhey Mama being an angel. Advance knowledge itself states that angelic souls like Mama and Baba enter into Brahmins to inspire them. But she is not the no.1 human soul as she could not become perfect as long as she was alive. And she does not play an all-round part either. The no.1 human soul would be an all-rounder, not even a day less.

You always speak about becoming angels, but you are always busy sowing seeds of hatred against the PBKs by giving false statements and spreading rumours about PBKs. Angels never indulge in such tactics.

[Sach_Khand]

I feel these points make it quite clear, that Prajapita, Ram and Shankar, are the same soul; the Chariot of Father Shiv through whom the inheritance of heaven is given, following the destruction of ignorance, the demonic souls of the Yagya, and the bodyconscious degraded religions of the world.

Roy

Based on the Murli points we can say that,
1) ShivBaba cannot be called as Prajapita.
2) Shankar is not Prajapita.
3) Shankar is subtle deity and not of this corporeal world.
4) Brahma and Shankar are different. And Prajapita is adjective used with Brahma and not with Shankar.
5) Prajapita is the name of the Patit Sharir (downgraded body).
6) Prajapita comes in rebirth and gets patit (vicious) and hence needs Guru/SadGuru (ShivBaba) to rise again. Whereas Shankar never comes in the cycle of birth and death as he never gets patit (vicious) and hence does not need a guru.
7) Children are called as Prajapita Brahmakumar/i and never ShankarKumar/i. That is to say that Prajapita Brahma adopts children and not Shankar.
8) It is said that even Mahadev Who fills everyone's jholi (begging basket in English?) is Myself i.e., ShivBaba and not Shankar.
9) As it is said about Ram. Tretayugi Ram is different and The Ram Who gives Mukti/ JeevanMukti is different. Tretayugi Ram failed and has to play the part of das (servant) of Narayan. Whereas The Ram Whom children call is actually The Nirakar (Incorporeal) Ram i.e., ShivBaba. Similarly when children call Mahadev to fill their jholi it is actually ShivBaba and not Shankar, The subtle deity.
10) Those who do Bhakti (devotion) of Shankar does not get the actual fruit of Bhakti i.e., The knowledge (of ShivBaba) in which all fruits are hidden.

:neutral:
Sanjeev.

[shivsena]

I must echo Arjun Bhai here, in that Mama will not have a body to face anyone. Roy

Dear roy Bhai.

IMO, Mama (no. 1 shivshakti) does not need to face anyone in the end of the behad ka drama....it is the numberwise shivshaktis(108) who will face resistance from the bk-pbk world (just as it was matas and kanyas in physical bodies who faced resistance from the outside world in the begnning.)....it has been said in Vanis: "Bap toh sirf bacchon ke aage pratyaksh hote hain aur bacche duniya ke aage pratyaksh hote hain."[meaning: The Father-mother(combined no. 1 shivshakti) will be revealed(intellectually) in front of only 108 king souls and it is the numberwise shivshaktis(108) who will be revealed in front of the bk-pbk world.]

Baba Dixit(Prajapita) who was there at the very beginning; tried to oppose the acceptance of the devilish children into the Yagya. At the very end of the Confluence Age, when he becomes bapsaman(albeit in a different costume); he succeeds in revealing or exposing these devilish souls, to the Brahmin family. He's had opposition from the word go; but will very soon be victorious.

IMO, these are just cooked up stories made by Baba Dixit to mislead the PBKs and there is no proof of the same....also when the Yagya began, nobody had the stamp on his part as to who is devilish clan(Ravan-sampradaya) and who is divine clan(Ram-sampradaya)....all souls are potentially divine in the beginning of the Yagya and only their thoughts and karmas in Sangamyug will decide who is Ravan-sampradaya and who is Ram-sampradaya at the end of behad ka drama.

shivsena.

[shivsena]

Dear roy Bhai.

You quoted a Murli point : “Everything, whatever happened in the beginning (of the Confluence Age), has to happen in the end.” [Mu 18.10.72]
Can you please share your views about the incidents which happened in the beginning and which are going to be repeated in the end.

shivsena.

[Roy]

Can you please share your views about the incidents which happened in the beginning and which are going to be repeated in the end.

Dear Shivsena Bhai

Firstly the birth or revelation of Trimurti Shiv which although initially very incognito, will be repeated in a very open way to the world at the end.

Prajapita Brahma was revealed at the very beginning, and will be so at the end.

The hero souls who were there at the very beginning, will be there in practical form at the end.

The fire of destruction was lit at the beginning of the Confluence Age, it becomes the unlimited Mahabharata war of the Confluence Age at the end.

Souls had visions at the beginning, they will do so at the end.

The outside world stood against the BKs at the beginning, the BKs stand against the PBKs at the end.

I am sure there are many more i haven't even considered, but there a few to be going on with.

Roy

[shivsena]

Adi-so-anth in one sentence: In the beginning in 1937, the jismani shivshaktis (matas-kanyas) were revealed to the outside world along with their leader mateshwari-jagdamba-Saraswati.....at the end of the behad ka drama, ruhani shivshaktis(108) will be revealed as Farishtas-angels with backbone icognito Mama-jagdamba giving them all the powers as no. 1 Farishta (Divine Fairy Mother Goddess).
(Av. Vani 05.02.1972 ,"Therefore it is not just the parts of the mother and Father that remain incognito, because the atmosphere too will remain incognito until the end. "Victory to the Shaktis" has been remembered, whereas of the Father it has been remembered: "Oh God, your divine games are wonderful".