Who is Shankar? What is his part? How is Shankar special?

[Roy]

In the picture above, a group of PBKs (who believe that shiv-Shankar are same) seem to be asking the BKs (who believe shiv and Shankar are different) as to how shivshankar became one in Bhakti-marg(2nd question in picture)....while in this forum there is another group of PBKs who emphasise that it is the BKs who are doing the shooting of believing shiv-Shankar are same.....how come there are two beliefs in pbk family about shivshankar !!

Dear Shivsena Bhai

The BKs do not really know who Shankar is, so their claims that Shiv and Shankar are different are just empty rhetoric, not based on true understanding. Their lack of understanding is revealed by their claims that ShivBaba's Advance Party, is the Shankar party, therefore merging the 2 soul part of Shiv and Shankar, into one part, of Shankar only. Therefore, Shankar, literally becomes God by this shooting, which is not the case of course. Not only this, the BKs do not understand that the reason these two names have become synonymous, is because Shankar achieves an incorporeal stage equal to Father Shiv's, and is the only soul who does this, which is why he has the title of Supreme Soul. If it was Brahma Baba who had achieved this feat, then the name of the Corporeal God of the Gita, would have been Shiv Brahma Bolenath, not Shiv Shankar Bolenath!

I am not sure who these souls are in the PBK family, who are doing the shooting of believing Shiv and Shankar are the same, but i wouldn't be suprised if some souls do get confused over this matter, just as souls in the BK Yagya have made Krishna God of the Gita, by not being able to distinguish between Father Shiv, and Brahma Baba. By getting attached to the Chariot, and forgetting the Incorporeal Father, one is doing the shooting of making that Chariot God.

Roy

[shivsena]

. If it was Brahma Baba who had achieved this feat, then the name of the Corporeal God of the Gita, would have been Shiv Brahma Bolenath, not Shiv Shankar Bolenath!
Roy

Is there any Murli which says that corporeal God of Gita is '' shivshankar Bholenath." !! (as you believe)

[Roy]

Is there any Murli which says that corporeal God of Gita is '' shivshankar Bholenath." !! (as you believe)

Not as far as i know Bhai, but this can be deduced from bringing different points together, to complete the jigsaw puzzle. ShivBaba doesn't hand it all on a plate, we have to make a little effort of our own.

[shivsena]

Dear roy Bhai.

BKWSU students take out yearly procession with banners (peace march) to give the general population of mt abu, a message that GOD Shiva (bindi) has come to redeem the world.....the AIVV students are now doing the same in mt abu giving a message to BKs about Baba Dixit ShivBaba(through banners)....PBKs claim that they are in Gyan-marg and BKs are in Bhakti-marg, so how come their way of giving the message about GOD remains the same...when Murlis say: "There is day-night difference between Gyan-marg and Bhakti-marg."

shivsena.

[Roy]

BKWSU students take out yearly procession with banners (peace march) to give the general population of mt abu, a message that GOD Shiva (bindi) has come to redeem the world.....the AIVV students are now doing the same in mt abu giving a message to BKs about Baba Dixit ShivBaba(through banners)....PBKs claim that they are in Gyan-marg and BKs are in Bhakti-marg, so how come their way of giving the message about GOD remains the same...when Murlis say: "There is day-night difference between Gyan-marg and Bhakti-marg."

Well for one thing Bhai, the PBKs actually have some knowledge to share... not simply the manmat of the Dadis!

[shivsena]

Well for one thing Bhai, the PBKs actually have some knowledge to share... not simply the manmat of the Dadis!

As long as PBKs are sharing some knowledge(philosophy), it is fine....but propagating that knowledge(manmat of dehdhari Baba Dixit) as the word of GOD(truth) is not as per Shrimat.
( "manushya mat se durgati"..."human opinions lead to downfall").
("koi bhi dehdhari manushya Bhagwan nahin ho sakta"..."No bodily person can be GOD")

[Roy]

"No bodily person can be GOD"

True, but God needs a body to work through!

"Incorporeal God Father (Shiv) cannot do any work without corporeal Father (Prajapita Brahma), He cannot play any role." [Mu 06.02.76]

"For as long as Brahma Kumar-Kumari's are in the physical body, Prajapita Brahma is also in the physical body." [Mu 03.11.87]

[shivsena]

To all truth-seeking PBKs.

Murli 14-1-2000 says: " विष्णु और शंकर को बाबा नहीं कहेंगे ."
" Vishnu aur Shankar ko Baba nahin kahenge."
[" Vishnu and Shankar cannot be called Baba."]

The above point is a clear hint to PBKs (who believe in Baba Dixit being partdhari Shankar), that Shankar (partdhari) cannot be called Baba. ( if at all there is one.)

shivsena.

[Roy]

"Vishnu and Shankar cannot be called Baba." -The above point is a clear hint to PBKs (who believe in Baba Dixit being partdhari Shankar), that Shankar (partdhari) cannot be called Baba. ( if at all there is one.)

What does Baba mean?.. is it grandfather? This is about roles is not it, not whether Shankar and Vishnu are played out in corporeal form... ShivBaba has made it very clear that all three roles of Brahma, Vishnu and Shankar are played here on earth, in physical bodies....

"The subtle(soul conscious) Deities, Brahma, Vishnu & Shankar have their temples in the physical world, because they come to play their part(role in a body) here (on earth, during the Confluence Age)." [Mu 25.06.73]

"Brahma, Vishnu and Shankar are His(Father Shiv's) children. All the children of the incorporeal Father (Shiv) are incorporeal souls. They come down here (on earth) and adopt (physical) bodies." [Mu 21.08.99]

"You children know that the one whose memorial is built (in Bhakti marg) would definitely have come on this earth (in a physical body) at the Confluence Age." [Mu 05.09.05]

"Kumarka(Dadi Prakashmani), tell me how many children does ShivBaba have? Some say 5 billion, some say one child Brahma(Baba-DL). Is Shankar(Prajapita-Ram) not a child? This is also a possibility. I say that ShivBaba has 2 children... one is Brahma(Baba-DL) who becomes Vishnu, and the other is Shankar(Prajapita-Ram). So there are two are there not? Why do you leave out Shankar? Although it is said Trimurti, but their occupation is different is not it?" [Mu 14.05.72]

"Your Marshall is Shankar only. His work is to cause destruction only. Neither you nor he uses any weapons. Shankar's work is to cause destruction only. ShivBaba's work is to get the work of establishment done. Shiva and Shankar are not one. That Shankar(Prajapita-Ram) is ShivBaba's child." [Mu 20.12.73]

So for me this is a question of receiving an inheritance through the Father or grandfather. Shankar gives no inheritance as he is the destroyer, and neither does Vishnu because he/she plays the role of sustenance... thus these roles or parts are not ones that would be entitled grandfather or Father, in terms of an inheritance being involved. Prajapita Brahma is the true great great grandfather, and so as Baba Dixit is the true Prajapita, he is of course entitled to be called Baba.

"It has been said earlier too, that one will get the inheritance from the Father (through Prajapita). One should know the Father (in his personified form), know the time, know oneself, then claim the inheritance. Now the Father has come (in 1976, playing the role of the Sun of Knowledge, through Prajapita-Ram), He is giving the inheritance, this should be clear in the intellect, only then can one claim the inheritance." [Av 15.11.11]

“Prajapita Brahma(Ram) who is called Adam(Adi Dev), is called the Great-Great Grandfather” [Mu 06.02.76]

Roy

[shivsena]

Dear roy Bhai.

Murlis says: "Alaf ko jaano toh badshahi tumari".
(meaning : "Know Alaf and get your kingdom".)

Please share your views about : "Who is Alaf " ??
shivsena.

[Roy]

Murlis says: "Alaf ko jaano toh badshahi tumari". (meaning : "Know Alaf and get your kingdom".) Please share your views about : "Who is Alaf" ??

Dear Shivsena Bhai

It is my understanding that Alaf is Ram's soul or Prajapita Brahma. ShivBaba has said in the Murli on very many occasions, that the inheritance or kingdom is received through Prajapita Brahma... So imo, this point confirms, that Alaf is the no 1 son or child, also known as Shankar.

"Although the body (of Prajapita Brahma) may be small, but if he is clever in knowledge (no 1), then it is felt that he is going to become a great person in the future." [Mu 03.05.73]

"Elder brother is always treated as Father. Here everything depends on knowledge. Whoever has more knowledge is supposed to be elder. Although he (Prajapita) may be young (he was only 34 in 1976) , but if he is clever in knowledge (no 1), then we think that he is going to become Vishwanath(Lord of the Universe, or World Emperor Shri Narayan of the Confluence Age)." [ Mu 03.05.76]

"God is one. It is said that his child also is one. Among the three deities of Trimurti, Shankar is the eldest(most knowledgeable)." [Mu 10.02.72]

“Bhil(Shankar aka Prajapita Brahma) went even faster than Arjun. The one who stays outside(the one who was exiled from the Yagya) ate(assimilated) all the arrows (of knowledge).” [Mu 03.08.74]

“It is the same Mahabharata war. Therefore, God should also be present (in corporeal form until the end). So, in which form, in which body? Except for you (PBK, or true Brahmin) children, nobody knows this. God also says that I come in a very ordinary body(was Dada Lekhraj very ordinary, especially in 1936 at the age of 48?). I do not come in the body of Krishna(i.e. in the attractive body of Dada Lekhraj Brahma Baba, to play the role of Father, in 1936).” [Mu 13.08.76]

“Everything, whatever happened in the beginning (of the Confluence Age), has to happen in the end.” [Mu 18.10.72]

"Those who come first (at the beginning of the Confluence Age, in their 83rd births)... only (they) remain till the end (in practical bodily form, in their 84th births). It’s a wonderful drama, isn’t it?" [Mu 06.03.74]

"For as long as Brahma Kumar-Kumari's are in the physical body, Prajapita Brahma is also in the physical body." [Mu 03.11.87]

"ShivBaba bestows the inheritance to Brahmakumaris and Brahmakumars, through (the corporeal Father) Prajapita Brahma. ShivBaba creates the Brahmin race through (the mother) Brahma(Baba Krishna)." [Mu 01.03.76]

"Nobody can give kingdom except Father(Prajapita). This Brahma(Baba Krishna) doesn’t have anything. There’s no necessity to keep his picture also." [Mu 06.06.72]

Roy

[shivsena]

It is my understanding that Alaf is Ram's soul or Prajapita Brahma. ShivBaba has said in the Murli on very many occasions, that the inheritance or kingdom is received through Prajapita Brahma... So imo, this point confirms, that Alaf is the no 1 son or child, also known as Shankar.
Roy

So according to you:
Alaf=Ram=ShivBaba=Shankar=Vishnu=prajapita brahma=Sangamyugi Krishna=Sangamyugi Narayan=Bhagwan=dehdhari Baba DIxit !!! ....but Murli says that "no bodily person can be called Bhagwan-GOD"... so are your beliefs in line with the teachings of Sakar Murlis ??

[Roy]

So according to you: Alaf=Ram=ShivBaba=Shankar=Vishnu=prajapita brahma=Sangamyugi Krishna=Sangamyugi Narayan=Bhagwan=dehdhari Baba DIxit !!! ....but Murli says that "no bodily person can be called Bhagwan-GOD"... so are your beliefs in line with the teachings of Sakar Murlis ??

Dear Shivsena Bhai

To begin with i'd like to quote the following Murli point...

"Highest on high Father gives highest inheritance(the direct inheritance in this very birth, in the Confluence Age, of Nar to Narayan). They(Ram-Sita) are Bhagvan-Bhagvati (God-Goddess of the Confluence Age aka Vishnu). Then, at the second number are Lakshmi & Narayan(Radhe-Krishna, the children of Ram-Sita), masters of Satyug." [Mu 08.01.75]

Confluence Age Lakshmi-Narayan(Ram and Sita) are remembered as God-Goddess on the path of Bhakti; but the true Bhagwan or God is Father Shiv, when he plays this role through the permanent Chariot Prajapita. Prajapita inherits this title only at the end, when he becomes incorporeal himself, and the fact titles or names are based on the body. Father Shiv the soul is called only Shiv, nothing else... without the corporeal Chariot, there is no part or role of Bhagwan. So it is quite right that you say that no bodily person can be called Bhagwan, only the combination of the two unlimited fathers can be called Bhagwan... the two incorporeal souls who will be revealed as Shiv Shankar Bholanath at the end of the Confluence Age, through the body of Prajapita-Ram.

"The name ShivBaba is based on the body, but the name of Supreme Soul is Shiv only." [Mu 15.03.96]

"Supreme Father Supreme Soul is called Ram, who’s also called Eashwar, and also called Bhagvan. His actual name is Shiva." [Mu 12.02.75]

"I (Shiv) have been given names based on different tasks that I have performed (through physical bodies or chariots).” [Mu 04.11.73]

“Shiva is the name of the Incorporeal Father, the point of light. He has only one name (Shiva), which never changes. When the forms (or roles) change, then their (the chariots') names also change.” [Mu 24.01.75]

"A soul is praised (or remembered in Bhakti marg) when it is in a (physical) body." [Mu 02.12.03]

"When there is no body there is no part (or role)." [Mu 05.06.99]

Roy

[shivsena]

"A soul is praised (or remembered in Bhakti marg) when it is in a (physical) body." [Mu 02.12.03]
"When there is no body there is no part (or role)." [Mu 05.06.99][/color]
Roy

So according to you, all PBKs are trying to prove a dehdhari Baba Dixit as the Chariot of God Shiva as per Murli points only, irrespective of whether that Chariot displays all the qualities(virtues and powers) of Father shiv in him.

A sincere request to all PBKs: Please specify a single quality of Father Shiva which you see in your believed Chariot Baba Dixit.

shivsena.

[Roy]

A sincere request to all PBKs: Please specify a single quality of Father Shiva which you see in your believed Chariot Baba Dixit.

Although i cannot speak from personal experience... Father Shiv only narrates through Shankar, he doesn't control his speech and actions... so as an effort maker soul, there may be some difference between the teachings of ShivBaba, and the actions of Ram, until he becomes complete. ShivBaba has told us to follow the mother Brahma Baba's actions, and to follow the Father Shankar in becoming bodiless or incorporeal, whilst remaining in the body.

"Do you think that we should also leave the body and become Avyakt (like Brahma Baba)? Do not follow in this matter. Father Brahma(Prajapita-Shankar) became Avyakt (whilst still in the body, in 1976) so that you could see the example of the (practical) Avyakt form, and follow easily." [Av 13.03.81]

"It is sung constantly to follow the mother(Brahma Baba in your physical actions) and the Father(Prajapita-Ram), in becoming bodiless-incorporeal. You have to show the right path to every soul. Now it is your final 84th birth. You have the aim object of becoming a deity. By looking at the image of Krishna(Brahma Baba), you cannot remember Me (in my permanent form of Father Shankar). You must not take any support of any images. You have to even forget your own image-body; consider yourself as a soul. You are all beloved of One Father. Father (Shiv) says, keep remembering Me (in the body of Prajapita-Ram). Let your stage at the end be such that, you are going towards your Father, leaving this old world (behind). Father makes you understand, Remember Me alone (in my permanent Chariot - Prajapita-Ram-Shankar)." [Mu 21.02.11]

Roy