ABOUT SRIKRISHNA BIRTH.

[Roy]

Dear Shivsena Bhai

The key point is that all PBKs are now waiting for supposed jagdamba-badi Maa(kamla devi) to return back to Advance Party and expecting choti Maa-Lakshmi(Vedanti) to come to Advance Party to set things right and take the PBKs in chadti kalaa, a task which supposed ShivBaba(Baba dixit) has failed to achieve in last 20 years.....if both badi-Maa and choti-Maa do come back as predicted by Baba Dixit to complete the Trimurti, then definitely my theory that AK is Krishna ki jhooti Gita falls flat, and i will have to pay the price for this lapse ...... but on the other hand, if in the next few years till 2018, neither badi-Maa or choti-Maa comes to back to Advance Party, then PBKs will have to admit that they were made fools by the ishwariya roop of Maya(baba Dixit) and this incident of Sangamyug will be remembered as Fool's Day(april 1st) internationally as their memorial."Parda utne wala hai, koi hasne wala hai, koi rone wala hai."["The curtain is going to be raised, some are going to cry and some are going to laugh."]So let us all wait and see who is going to have the last laugh.

Well i won't be laughing if you turn out to be wrong, but i may feel pity; especially as you had so much intoxication and love for AK initially.

On the theme of Sister Vedanti , i thought i might share some churnings i have done, concerning her part in the Confluence Age. These are presented here as food for thought and further discussion....

In the Murli dated 18.10.72, it was said: “Everything, whatever happened in the beginning, has to happen in the end.” It took 14 years(1936/7-1951) for the first murti(Brahma Baba in this instance), to be revealed in the practical role of narrating the 18 chapters of the Gita, from 1951-1969(18 years). I speculate, the same will be true for the Vishnu role... i.e. it takes from 2004 to 2018(14 years) at Revelation, for the Vishnu role to appear in the practical form on the world stage... “BapDada has also heard of the news, Congratulations to the zeal and enthusiasm of Africa(Sister Vedanti is on service here) ... They are first in starting it. Congratulations for that. Everyone has to do like that numberwise, but they have accepted the challenge first of all. It is good. The plan is also good. Making the hands to emerge from there and enabling them to do service there. This plan is very good because very few hands are received from other places. And when compared to them, those coming from the same place are experienced.(Nizar Bhai of Africa gave a resolution letter to BapDada - All of us resolve that we will give the message to everyone in Africa till Mama's Day in 2006 so that nobody's complaint should remain pending). It is good, very good. Similarly, give message to all those who are yet to receive it. This plan appeared to be best and the method was easy, wasn't it? One would get hands also and the service also increased. Now everyone has to do.” (When the local people do service, the response that is received is good). (Avyakt Vani -15.10.2004).

Further... “The birth of Brahma-Vishnu-Shankar is together. It is not just Shivjayanti (birthday of Shiv) but Trimurti Shivjayanti (birthday of Trinity Shiv).”(Murli dated 3.10.05) All 3 murtis, are revealed(practical birth) at the same time on the world stage, in 2018(6 souls, including Father Shiv and Badee Maa re-united as in the beginning of the Yagya... 3 corporeal(but each in an incorporeal stage of being) and three incoporeal(but with corporeal chariots)... Shiv in Ram(Shankar), Mama(Om Radhe) in Sita(Parvati-Saraswati-Choti Ma), playing Radhe, and Brahma Baba(DL) in Narayan(Ram) playing Krishna, and/or maybe in Jagadamba(Badee Maa-Adi Brahma). The Vishnu part will then continue for another 18 years(as with the Brahma Baba(DL) Gita role), up until destruction in 2036.

If we look more closely at the Sister Vedanti/Vishnu role, some interesting things emerge... Sister Vedanti(subtle/incognito Vishnu role, from 2004 to 2018) - Born 1946/7, the year of subtle Revelation of Brahma Baba(DL - 60 years old) – 30 years later in 1976/7, we have the subtle Revelation of Shankar(Prajapita Brahma(Virendra Dev Dixit) - 100 years old) - 30 Years later in 2006/7(see Murli point above re: Mama's Day), subtle Revelation of Vishnu(Sister Vedanti - 60 years old) - then a further 30 years on, at the age of 90, in 2036/7, we have the birth(via Sister Vedanti) or revelation of Radhe- Krishna, at the beginning of the Golden Age.

Roy

[Roy]

Dear Shivsena Bhai

I am again quoting the above 2 points, which clearly talk about the birth of Krishna and Radha of Golden Age with a difference of 2-4 years and not of Sangamyug (arjun Bhai please note)....also there are no terms like Sangamyugi Radha and Sangamyugi Krishna in Murlis...these are coined only in AK.

I think Arjun Bhai has covered the Sangamyugi question very nicely with his Murli point. As for the other aspects; it is my belief that when ShivBaba refers to the Golden Age, He is referring to the shooting period of the Golden Age. Why did He say: "Radha's birth too can be said to have taken place in the beginning of Golden Age."... for me, this implys what i have said above, about the shooting of the Golden Age, not the Golden Age itself.

"Krishna must have taken birth first." Not only is Krishna(Baba Dixit in this case), the first born Brahmin at the beginning of the Yagya in 1936(beginning of shooting for Golden Age)... he is also born again before Radhe(Sister Vedanti), when he comes back into the Yagya; because he realises his part of Krishna, before Sister Vedanti, realises her part of Radhe.

Roy

[shivsena]

Krishna's birth took place in Golden Age, Radha's birth too can be said to have taken place in the beginning of Golden Age. Especially there will be a difference of 2-4 years in their age.
There will be a difference of 2-3 years in the age of Radha-Krishna. Krishna must have taken birth first. He must have taken birth to some King of Golden Age. But it’s not known when the Golden Age was? [18-2-71]

Which ever way you apply the quote (whether in limited or unlimited sense), the point clearly mentions that Krishna will be born first and not Radha. (please see above.)

[Roy]

Which ever way you apply the quote (whether in limited or unlimited sense), the point clearly mentions that Krishna will be born first and not Radha. (please see above.)

Is spiritual realisation not a birth?... are we not re-born as Brahmins in the Confluence Age?

"He must have taken birth to some King of Golden Age. But it’s not known when the Golden Age was?"

Whose this "some King" of the Golden Age?... i thought Krishna(Brahma Baba) was the first King of the Golden Age! I also believe, that BKs know/knew when the Golden Age is... but who knew about the Golden Age shooting, at the time of this Murli?

Roy

[shivsena]

"Krishna must have taken birth first." Not only is Krishna(Baba Dixit in this case), the first born Brahmin at the beginning of the Yagya in 1936(beginning of shooting for Golden Age)... he is also born again before Radhe(Sister Vedanti), when he comes back into the Yagya; because he realises his part of Krishna, before Sister Vedanti, realises her part of Radhe.
Roy

Dear roy Bhai.

You are making things more complicated (not simplying them) by refering the Murli points to the beginning of the Yagya.....was sevakram Sangamyugi Krishna in the begining ...was sevakram really Ram's soul (as assumed by PBKs)...Did the shooting period of Golden Age start from 1936 or from 1960 (as per Ak)....all these issues will have to be addressed before we discuss who is Krishna and who is Radha.

shivsena.

[Roy]

You are making things more complicated (not simplying them) by refering the Murli points to the beginning of the Yagya.....was sevakram Sangamyugi Krishna in the begining ...was sevakram really Ram's soul (as assumed by PBKs)...Did the shooting period of Golden Age start from 1936 or from 1960 (as per Ak)....all these issues will have to be addressed before we discuss who is Krishna and who is Radha.

Dear Shivsena Bhai

I wasn't aware of AK's teachings, that the Golden Age shooting began in 1960. However, this illustrates very nicely ShivBaba's point... "But it’s not known when the Golden Age was?"

But even revealing my ignorance in this matter, doesn't change my stance on my interpretation of the point... Sister Vedanti was born(spiritually) at the beginning of the Golden Age shooting, in 1966, if indeed you are correct. But imo, she took her initial birth into Gyan, at the beginning of the Yagya in 1936. So whenever the Golden Age shooting does begin, this point can be applied. However, i do agree with you; further clarification is necessary here!

Roy

[Sach_Khand]

This age difference actually is a memorial of the time periods at which the Confluence-Aged Radha (believed to be Sister Vedanti by PBKs) and Confluence-Aged Krishna (believed to be the soul of Baba Veerendra Dev Dixit by the PBKs) enter the path of basic (BK) knowledge in the present birth. Sister Vedanti became a BK before Baba Veerendra Dev Dixit. In its memorial Radha is shown to be elder than Krishna in the scriptures. Whatever is written in the scriptures is a memorial of what happens in the Confluence Age and not in the Golden Age.

There will be a difference of 2-3 years in the age of Radha-Krishna. Krishna must have taken birth first. He must have taken birth to some King of Golden Age. But it’s not known when the Golden Age was? [18-2-71]
Dear Arjun, you have written that Radha (Sister Vedanti) took birth before Krishna (Virendra Dev Dixit). But in the above Murli point it is said that Krishna must have taken birth first.
And this cannot be of Golden Age where according to AIVV, Radha and Krishna are siblings. That means the above said Radha and Krishna are of Confluence Age. But it is said that Krishna takes birth before Radha. How does AIVV explain this?

Souls like shivsena Bhai and sachkhand Bhai are free to paint the above Murli point as confusing to keep their business running.

I am not doing business here. And do not think that Shivsena is making any business here. Actually Virendra Dev Dixit has been making business since more that three decades claiming himself to the part of Supreme teacher and explaining Murlis and Avyakt Vanis. But still now AIVV has not one voice to the questions raised by Virendra Dev Dixit himself in the 1970s.

:neutral:
Sanjeev.

[shivsena]

I am not doing business here. And do not think that Shivsena is making any business here. Actually Veerendra Dev Dixit has been making business since more that three decades claiming himself to the part of Supreme teacher and explaining Murlis and Avyakt Vanis. Sanjeev.

Dear sanjeev.

You are right...it is Baba Dixit who has opened his so called ishwariya business (as per drama) to narrate the AK (to propagate it as truth) and to cause confusion and friction between the BKs-PBKs and ex.....this cannot be certainly a Godly business.(Father Shiva will never create friction amongst his children.)....if all PBKs ask themselves a simple query: Did Father Shiva speak AK to make things more complicated and to cause friction between his children or to unite children in one thread of knowledge???.....if this simple fact is understood by PBKs, then they will wake up from their deep slumber of ignorance.

shivsena.

[Roy]

Did Father Shiva speak AK to make things more complicated and to cause friction between his children or to unite children in one thread of knowledge???..

I personally don't feel things are more complicated; it is just that we have been shown how much there was in the Murli we just ignored, or simply did not understand. Although ShivBaba is clarifying his teachings, imo, He is not just handing out everything on a platter, we still have to churn(study) to earn our inheritance; and because this is done numberwise, there is bound to be differences of opinion. I don't think every secret has yet been revealed, and patience is key. This Drama plays out the way it does every Kalpa, with only 108 getting really close to understanding the deep truths ShivBaba imparts; and i feel, absolute clarity will only be established, once Baba Dixit becomes complete, in 2018.

Roy

[arjun]

There will be a difference of 2-3 years in the age of Radha-Krishna. Krishna must have taken birth first. He must have taken birth to some King of Golden Age. But it’s not known when the Golden Age was? [18-2-71]
Dear Arjun, you have written that Radha (Sister Vedanti) took birth before Krishna (Veerendra Dev Dixit). But in the above Murli point it is said that Krishna must have taken birth first.
And this cannot be of Golden Age where according to AIVV, Radha and Krishna are siblings. That means the above said Radha and Krishna are of Confluence Age. But it is said that Krishna takes birth before Radha. How does AIVV explain this?

From Bhakti point of view, Radha is shown to be older than Krishna which depicts the entry of BK Vedanti to BK path of knowledge earlier than Baba Virendra Dev Dixit in the Copper Age whereas from above Murli point of view Krishna is shown to be older than Radha which depicts the entry of Baba Virendra Dev Dixit to the path of advance knowledge earlier than BK Vedanti. So, either way it tallies.

[shivsena]

I personally don't feel things are more complicated; it is just that we have been shown how much there was in the Murli we just ignored, or simply did not understand.
Roy

Dear roy Bhai.

I think we have diverted from the original discussion(where we were discussing whether Radha-Krishna would be born as twins in golden to their parents Lakshmi-Narayan) ...we were not discussing about who are Sangamyugi Radha-Krishna.....Can PBKs quote any Murli point saying that "Radha-Krishna will be born as twins" and that "Lakshmi-Narayan are parents of Radha-Krishna"..as i have never read the above two points in any Murli.

What is the basis of AK teaching to describe Radha-Krishna as twins(taking birth together)

shivsena.

[arjun]

What is the basis of AK teaching to describe Radha-Krishna as twins(taking birth together)

There will not be any widow or widower in Golden Age/Silver Age. For that to happen, Radha and Krishna have to take birth as twins.

[Roy]

I think we have diverted from the original discussion(where we were discussing whether Radha-Krishna would be born as twins in golden to their parents Lakshmi-Narayan) ...we were not discussing about who are Sangamyugi Radha-Krishna.....Can PBKs quote any Murli point saying that "Radha-Krishna will be born as twins" and that "Lakshmi-Narayan are parents of Radha-Krishna"..as i have never read the above two points in any Murli.What is the basis of AK teaching to describe Radha-Krishna as twins(taking birth together)

Dear Shivsena Bhai

I totally agree with Arjun Bhai's point below, and was going to say something similar myself!

There will not be any widow or widower in Golden Age/Silver Age. For that to happen, Radha and Krishna have to take birth as twins.

The karma of these souls, will bind them for the whole Golden and Silver Age; it is absolutely logical for them to be born as inseparable twins.
Nobody becomes widow etc there. Untimely death never occurs. People live up to their full age. Then they have divine visions. They get full company (of their partners) for 21 births.[Mu 10-3-74]

Moving on to your next point...

When did these Lakshmi-Narayan rule? Neither in Kalyug nor in Satyug. Heaven is established in the Confluence Age. Others cannot think so deeply. People do not require so much of elaboration.[Mu 16-11-71]

Realising that the Lakshmi-Narayan who rule in the Confluence Age, will pass on their titles to their children, the first Lakshmi-Narayan(Radhe-Krishna) of the Golden Age, is an absolutely logical follow through, with the knowledge given in the Sakar Murlis; and the Lakshmi-Narayan picture, produced in 1966. The fact this is pointed out in AK, imo, only goes to reveal once again, that Ak is truth! You can ignore these glaringly obvious truths all you want Shivsena Bhai; but they aren't going to go away!

The question arises that whether Ram-Sita(Confluenced Aged Lakshmi-Narayan) come in Satyug? Yes, they do come, but they fail(in the early days of the Yagya). So they carry load in front of Lakshmi-Narayan(Golden Aged), who passed (in the Confluence Age). Radha & Krishna, only become Lakshmi & Narayan(in the Golden Age). Ram & Sita(Lakshmi-Narayan of the Confluence Age) become their best servant and maid servant(i.e. mother and Father, before passing on their respective titles to them, once they reach the age of 22-25). [Mu 7-6-76]

Unlimited Father is the servant of unlimited children. Bodily Father is also a servant (for his children), is not it? [Mu 4-2-74 ; 5-2-68]

Roy

[shivsena]

Dear roy Bhai.

Good points for further discussion.
Ak teaches that Sangamyugi Narayan and Sangamyugi Lakshmi will be revealed in 2018....now what i wish to know is that how many years will they require to transform their bodies(as Krishna-Radha cannot be born from impure bodies) and when will children Radha-Krishna will be born as twins and how does the conception takes place in the womb of mother Sangamyugi Lakshmi.....will the twin children Radha-Krishna be born in the impure world when impure souls are still existing ??

shivsena.

[arjun]

Ak teaches that Sangamyugi Narayan and Sangamyugi Lakshmi will be revealed in 2018....now what i wish to know is that how many years will they require to transform their bodies(as Krishna-Radha cannot be born from impure bodies) and when will children Radha-Krishna will be born as twins and how does the conception takes place in the womb of mother Sangamyugi Lakshmi.....will the twin children Radha-Krishna be born in the impure world when impure souls are still existing ??

Baba has said in the Murlis that all the questions related to time, like when will this happen, when will that happen clearly indicate that children are no more interested in ShivBaba and want him to leave this world. Baba is still with us to clarify all the doubts. If he gives all the knowledge in one month or one year what will be there for him to do for the remaining period of the Confluence Age?

You have been singing about Ram ShivBaba and now Om Radhey Mama for so many years, but have you been able to reveal a single point of knowledge other than the fact that both RamShivbaba and Om Radhey Mama will be revealed through the body of Baba Virendra Dev Dixit? Then how do you expect ShivBaba to answer all your queries in a second?

By the way, I think the Confluence-Aged Radha-Krishna take revelation-like birth amidst impure world whereas the Golden Aged Radha-Krishna take physical birth only after the impure world has been destroyed.