Brahmakumaris and Bhagavadgita

[mbbhat]

d) The following is a shloka in Udyoga_parv (one of the 18 parvs. A part is called as parv) of Mahabharat epic which is superset of Bhagavdgita.

Esha naayaarayanaha krishnaha phaalgunashcha naraha krutam, naarayano narashchaivasatwamekum dwidhaa krutam – (49/20).

= Sri Krishna is Narayan and Arjun is human. Both of these are two projections of the same base.

It implies both Sri Krishna and Arjun are one and the same. Then how can Sri Krishna preach Gita to Arjun? How can one be giver and the other receiver?

[BKs believe that Shiv preached Gita to Arjun a human being who became the most divine Krishna= Naraya- in his next birth. So this fits to BK philosophy].

f)The following are shloka numbers 4 and 5 in 43rd chapter of the same parv that of Gita. These shlokas are present immediately after sermonization of Gita in the epic Mahabharat.
“Shat shataani savimshaani shlokaanaa praaha keshava, Arjunaha sapta panchaashat, sapta shashtim cha sanjayaha, dhrutaraashtraha shlokamekum, geetaaya maanmuchyate”.
According to the above statement, there should be 620 shlokas of Sri Krishna, Arjuna’s 57, Sanjaya’s 67 shlokas, and one that of Dhrutaraashtra- So totally 745 shlokas should have been present in Gita.

But there are only 700 sholkas in the present sanscrit Gita. Why/how the difference?

g)Api chedasi paapebhyaha, sarvebhyaha paapakruttamaha, sarvam jnaanaplavenaivavrujinam santharishyasi – (4-36)
= Even though you are more sinner than all the sinners, with the help of boat of knowledge you will cross the whole ocean of sin successfully.

Do lowkik people believe Arjun is the most sinner? If yes, how?

[BKs believe that they are really Arjun (gyaan kaa arjan karnevaalaa = One who imbibes knowledge). And also believe that BKs are the highest impure souls or sinners by the end of Kaliyug (sins of 63 births)].

[mbbhat]

h)Bahunaam janma naamante jnaanavaanmaam prapadyate, vaasudevaha sarva miti Silver Age mahaatmaa su durlabhaha – (7-19)
= Those who receive knowledge during the last birth of their highest number of births consider Vasudev(God) is everything and remember me. Such great souls are very less/rare.

So- it implies the rare (special) souls are the one who take maximum births and accumulate maximum sins and consider God as everything in their last birth. Do lowkik people believe so?

[But BKs believe so. BKs believe that the soul of Krishna becomes Brahma and takes knowledge from Shiv and Brahma is number one braahmin or Arjun. All the other BKs are numberwise Arjun or Master Brahma]


i)Ye pyanya devataa bhaktaa yajante shraddhayaanvitaaha, te pi maameva kounteya, yajantya avidhipoorvakam…. (9-23)
= Even if one worships a deity with faith, it is as good as worshipping me, but without vidhi (against right procedure).

Now- who can say this? Definitely one who is not a deity. When Sri Krishna is a deity, how can he say so? So it implies fruit of worshipping deities is lesser than worshipping God. So- definitely God should had come at the time when people used to do bhaktis of many deities, is it not? If we know from past history, around 2000 yrs before just Shiva was being worshipped. The oldest temples are of Shiv temples. So- definitely God of Gita should had come after that period, is it not?

Some argue/believe Krishna is not a deity, he was God in human form. The deities are like sun god, moon god, etc. Even then it implies they did not understand Gita, because they also worship all these deities!

[mbbhat]

j)Quite a number of shlokas say- I am Ishwar (another name for Shiva). The word Krishna is not present much in Gita. Examples of such shlokas are given below. I think except at two places, nowhere else name of Sri Krishna is present.

In the following slokas word ISHWAR is present.

Uttama purushastanyaha paramaatmetyu da hrutaha, yo lo katrayamaa vishya bibhartavyaha ISHWARAHA -15- 17)

Yo Maa majamanaadim cha vetti loka MAHESHWARAM, asam moodhaha martyeshu sarva paapaihi pramuchyate -(10-03)

Avajaananti maamoodhaaha , maanusheem tanumaashritam, param bhaava majaananto, Mama bhoota MAHESHWARAM –(9-11)

Also see shlokas- 11-03, 11-04, 11-09, 11-16, 11-25, 11-44, 10-15.

[mbbhat]

k)Yo Maa majamanaadim cha vetti loka MAHESHWARAM, asam moodhaha martyeshu sarva paapaihi pramuchyate -(10-03)
= One who knows me as birthless, beginningless, and the Supreme controller of all the worlds; he being undeluded among mortals is delivered from all sins.

Now- when Sri Krishna takes birth and deaths, has beginning and ends. So how can he be God of Gita? Does not this imply that it can be only Shiv, because except Shiv all the other deities got birth from mother’s womb.


l)Avajaananti maamoodhaaha , maanusheem tanumaashritam, param bhaava majaananto, Mama bhoota MAHESHWARAM –(9-11)

= Me being the only god of the whole living things, the fools see/consider me as small (give disrespect, under estimate).


All had given respect to Krishna. In Mahabharat, it is shown that most of the people had given very high respect to Krishna, except a few like kouravas, Shishupaal, Jarasandh, Durodhan, etc. It is shown in scriptures that many saints knew that Sri Krishna was God himself. Also he was given very warm welcome wherever he went.


So- according to biography of Krishna given in scriptures, the above shloka becomes wrong.

[Actually this shloka fits for Dada Lekraj who is the Chariot of God (according to beliefs of BKs). We can see people of the world have no respect for the Chariot. People criticize him and fail to recognize God’s acts, even the so called PBKs].

m)Na tadbhaasayate sooryo, na shashaanko na paavakaha, yadgatwaana nivartantE, tadhdhaama paramam_Mama..- (15-07)

= I reside at that place where lights of sun and moon do/can not enter.

This implies that God is not omnipresent. But people believe that God is omnipresent.

[BKs believe that God is not omnipresent. They believe that God’s residing place is Paramdham which is above the physical world of five elements. From this it is clear that lowkik people’s belief about Gita is much far than Gita slokas and BK’s belief is more closer to the teachings of Gita ].

[mbbhat]

n) Place of soul in body:- Lowkik people believe that soul’s place is in the heart. But BKs believe that its place is at the middle of forehead between the eye brows. Let us see some shlokas of Gita.

Sparshaan krutwaa ... -(5-27) = concentrate your eyes BETWEEN EYEBROWS.

Prayaanakaale,.. (8-10) = Even during death, concentrate praan* (soul= mind ) at between the eyebrows.

In these shlokas it is said to CONCENTRATE BETWEEN EYE BROWS. So definitely the eternal entity(soul) should be there. Else what is the use of concentrating mortal things?

Also Hindus place a dot at forehead. What is its significance(If you believe soul’s place is at heart)?

There is also a saying- bhrukuti ke beech may chamaktaa hai ajab sitaaraa= A star shines between eyebrows.

Also- there are words shiromani (jewel at head), mastakamani (jewel at forehead). These all indicate that the place of soul is at forehead.

Even though it is mentioned in Gita, people who believe Gita also have not understood it.


---------
*If meaning of praan is taken as air to be inhaled, what is the use of concentrating mortal or physical things/nature? Also actual meaning of praan is soul. That is why we all are called as praanis= one who has soul. Even plants and trees breathe. But they do not come under category praani

[mbbhat]

Also see shlokas- 11-03, 11-04, 11-09, 11-16, 11-25, 11-44, 10-15.

Just think- When it is said in many places that I am Ishwar, how can God of Gita be Krishna? If Gita believers believe – Krishna and Shiv/Ishwar both are one and the same, then it could have some value or truth. That could lead to the one concept of God and one_ness/unity and harmony. But Gita believers believe Krishna is different than Shiv. Vaishnavas believe in Vishnu (Krishna) and Shaivas in Shiv. Due to this people got divided and hatredness entered. This caused huge downfall of the country and the world.

[mbbhat]

o) Gita- Rajayog:- Teachings of Gita is called as Rajayog. But people who chant or read Gita do not have intoxication of becoming King. They do not keep aim in present life to become King of (to get power to control) their body/organs. Even their future aim is not to become King. Their future aim is to attain moksha(permanent liberation). Then how can be such a practice called as Rajayog?

Of course- some may practice to sacrifice vices and may have control over organs in the present life. But almost all of them are usually sanyaasis, saints who abandon their families and are of nivruttimarg. Their effort is not natural. It is hathayog (forced). But Gita teachings are more for household path. It says karmayoga is better than karm sanyaasa.

Not only that, most of the saints who practice Gita believe- there is another status called Brahma_rushi (or Brahm_yogi) and they believe that status is higher than Rajarushi (or Rajayogi). Now, how ridiculous it is – Placing God’s teachings (Gita) at a lower stage than other teachings/practice?

[But BKs feel/believe that they become King by practicing Gita. Their aim is to become King of one’s self in the present birth and also rule the whole world in future births. The concept of LIBERATION IN LIFE fits for the word Raja Yoga but not for Moksha. So- it is as good as lowkik people holding scripture(Gita) that teaches liberation in life, but talking about sacrificing or hating life itself(= to attain moksha)!]

[BKs also feel that God comes to establish both RELIGION AND KINGDOM. So- the word DHARM STHAAPNAA and RAJAYOG as mentioned in Gita fits most accurately to BK philosophy. But lowkik people who believe in Gita say moksha is the highest aim. If Moksha is the highest aim, then why did God create us? Also then why should God say- I have come to establish dharma?]

Some may believe/argue that God establishes dharma in the world and also shows way for moksha and moksha is the higher status. Now- from story of Mahabharat, who all had put effort to establish dharma or moksha? It is not clear. Huge war is shown there. Now- if you say Pandavas and their army did put effort to establish dharma in the world, how it fits there?

Because there all the people who fought war died and left the world. So- how dharma was established? Even those who fought for dharma died(except the 5 pandavas, droupadi and Satyaki). Why even then the Pandavs did not rule the world? So is it that the pandavas established dharma for others those who come next? If so- is it like that one gets fruit of action of another? Then it violates karma philosophy. OK- lets us believe so. That is- the actions of pandavas established dharma for OTHERS. Then in such case, why not effort put to attain moksha by few people give moksha to others? So- all should/can attain moksha when at least some people attain moksha. Is it not? Do lowkik people believe so?

So- it is very clear that one who puts effort only should reap it. Else it becomes illogical or meaningless. So those who put effort should come back and rule the Kingdom. Else- it becomes illogical. But in Mahabharat no results of war is shown. It is shown that almost all died. Where they all went is also not sure (not given there). Even the pandavas died while climbing the mountain.

[But BKs believe that they fight with Maya and help/serve in establishing dharma. The destruction cleans the impure world. Then in the next Kalpa BKs descend to the world. And since Kaliyug is the place where dharma is degraded, there is no point in ruling it. Because if God comes to give power in Kaliyug, then it is as good as not doing the duty fully. Because it is Kaliyug. So- Kaliyug should get transformed into Satyug. Hence God should come at the end of Kaliyug and give knowledge of Gita. So time of Gita episode should be end of Kaliyug and not in any yug.]

[mbbhat]

The following explains how the concept of MOKSHA is just an illusion and not practical.

People believe God created us and also has given directions/teachings to us to put effort to attain moksha. Let us have a thought on this.

i)God himself has no liberation. He has to descend into Physical World during time of climax. Then how come other souls could get moksha?

ii)Since soul is eternal, it can never attain moksha. Because moksha is as good as getting dead or merging.

iii)Some belive moksha as merging in God or merging with Brahma tatw. But soul is called as akhanda(indivisible). Hence it cannot be created out of something. It also cannot be mixed with something.

Brahmatatw is liveless. Because it is just empty space. But soul is chaitanya(one which is aware of itself). Then how can a chaitanya entity merge in liveless thing?

iv)If God created us and gave directions/teachings to attain moksha, it would be highly foolish and funny. Then God is responsible for all the sins. It is as good as God pouring mud on me (putting me in cycle of birth and deaths) and giving me a water, soap and cloth to take bath (giving directions through his teachings or scriptures, whatever they are).

Just imagine how wrong our scriptures and Gurus are. Let readers decide what the truth is. [In fact the rushis of olden days in India had honestly admitted about their ignorance of creator and creation. (NETI2). But today’s Gurus are more ignorant and egoist and say I am Shiv(shivoham), etc.

v)Concept of liberation is present in almost all religions. Some believe in heaven situated in separate world. All direct to get liberated from this present world. Then why all the religions direct to produce children? Is it not sin? Is it not making a soul bonded in this Physical World full of diseases, stress and worries?

So- those who preach of moksha should never give birth to children and also direct the same to others. Then worries in this world will come to end or at least reduce to a great extent. Population will decrease and all will automatically get moksha! Hence it is clear that those who believe or claim moksha are really ignorant and body conscious.

vi)Some Indian Gurus direct Hindus to produce more children. Just think- these Gurus practice celibacy. But they teach others to produce children! See the pitiable state of India.

[satyaprakash]

Dear mbbhat,
Even after 3 months of your postings, there is not a single reply for it.
May be it is not worth replying.
Maybe you should learn a little more about Hinduism, before trying to find fault with BG
Regards,
Satya.

[arjun]

Even after 3 months of your postings, there is not a single reply for it.
May be it is not worth replying.

No reply to mbbhat's posts does not mean that whatever he has written is false. Just as you are speculating about him, others could also speculate about you that you do not have any answers to mbbhat's questions. Before making accusations against him you should have tried to answer the points raised by him. Your above post only demonstrates your ego and not your knowledge about Bhagwad Gita.

[satyaprakash]

Just as you are speculating about him

It is not about mbbhat. It is on BG.

others could also speculate about you that you do not have any answers to mbbhat's questions

I need not have answers to them. I am not a BG expert. But there are huge volumes on BG written by real experts. All the answers are found there.
Further the questions themselves are very vague and are only restatement of the ideas of BK/PBK cults. Hence even experts do not know the questions to be answered.

Your above post only demonstrates your ego and not your knowledge about Bhagwad Gita.

This post is not to demonstrate my knowledge on BG. If it shows my ego, then so be it.

answer the points raised by him

If the points are clear without bringing in BK/PBK terminology then some one can try to answer them.

Regards,
Satya

[arjun]

If the points are clear without bringing in BK/PBK terminology then some one can try to answer them.

Dear satyaprakash,
I am sorry to state that your above observation is not true. I think you have not bothered to go through the posts of mbbhat. The very first two questions are very clear and does not need any expertise on Bhagwad Gita to answer. And it does not involve any BK/PBK terminology. It uses terms from Hindu scriptures.
I am reproducing the questions for your information once again:
1)If Gita was sermonized at the end of Dwapur Yug/Age by Sri Krishna, then why the worst Kaliyug came? Dharma/religiousness in Kaliyug is lesser than in Dwapur Yug. If Sri Krishna did dharm_sthaapana (establishment of dharma), how can Kaliyug come next to Dwapur Yug?

2)It is written in Gita- sarvadharman parityajya maamekum sharanam vraja, ahum twaa sarva paapebhyO, mokshayishyaami Maa shuchaha – (18-66) = Sacrifice all the religions and surrender to me. I will liberate you from all your sins.

What all are the religions that did exist in Dwapur Yug? What is the religion the god of Gita wishes to establish? What are dharma, swadharma, saddharma, paradharma, adharma?

OGS,
Arjun

[satyaprakash]

then why the worst Kaliyug came?

No where in BG it is said that Kali Yuga will not come. Bagavata clearly says that Kali Yuga is bad and most people will be having ignoble qualities. Mahabharata where BG occurs also says the same.
It is clear that those who follow the Dharma (methods) as stated in BG etc will be saved from evil effects. So the question is not correct.

Sacrifice all the religions and surrender to me. I will liberate you from all your sin

Hinduism or sanatana Dharma is not a cult. It is wide like ocean. It gives ways of liberation to all types of people. Here Dharma means various methodologies prescribed in our scriptures- like Gyana, Bakti, Yoga etc. Here Krishna simply give a simple solution of surrendering to him. (Bhakti).
Dharma here does not mean 'religions' like Islam, Christianity etc. None of them existed in those days.
You have to first come out of the 1250 years per yuga bluff propagated by BK/PBK. Then it is easy to answer this question and then the above answer will make sense.

Of course real good experts on Bagavad Gita will give much more detailed answers. I can give only the above.
Regards,
Satya

[arjun]

No where in BG it is said that Kali Yuga will not come. Bagavata clearly says that Kali Yuga is bad and most people will be having ignoble qualities. Mahabharata where BG occurs also says the same.
It is clear that those who follow the Dharma (methods) as stated in BG etc will be saved from evil effects. So the question is not correct.

But what is the use of narration of Sanskrit Gita in the Dwaparyuga if it is going to usher in Kaliyuga? Does God give such inheritance (of adharma and sorrows) to His children after incarnation?

Hinduism or sanatana Dharma is not a cult. It is wide like ocean. It gives ways of liberation to all types of people. Here Dharma means various methodologies prescribed in our scriptures- like Gyana, Bakti, Yoga etc. Here Krishna simply give a simple solution of surrendering to him. (Bhakti).
Dharma here does not mean 'religions' like Islam, Christianity etc. None of them existed in those days.
You have to first come out of the 1250 years per yuga bluff propagated by BK/PBK.

Dharma means different beliefs or ways of life. When there was no other belief other than Sanatan Dharma when the Gita was narrated then how can it be applicable at that time to different religions (which did not exist at all)?

You may call the 1250 years per Yuga theory as a bluff, but will continue to believe that Ravan had ten heads or Vishnu had four arms or that heaven exists somewhere in the Universe or that hell exists somewhere beneath the Earth. Is that not a bluff? Please think patiently.

OGS,
Arjun

[satyaprakash]

Sanskrit Gita in the Dwaparyuga if it is going to usher in Kaliyuga?

Why are you hung up with sanscrit Gita/ Yoga? Is Hindi Gita/Yoga any better? See what is in it rather than find some silly language issues.
Read a proper commentary on Bagawad Gita in a language which you (means any one who wants) understand. Most of the answers will be found there.

Dharma means different beliefs or ways of life. When there was no other belief other than Sanatan Dharma when the Gita was narrated then how can it be applicable at that time to different religions (which did not exist at all)?

Read my answer again. Dharma means different methods of spiritual practice. See wikipedia for more definitions. Or see any proper scripture on this.

Ravan had ten heads or Vishnu had four arms or that heaven exists somewhere in the Universe or that hell exists somewhere beneath the Earth. Is that not a bluff? Please think patiently.

Ravan heads may be symbolic of something else or actually may be true. Either way the Ramayana conveys certain Dharma which is important rather than 10 heads or 100 heads. Such finding fault is good to convert innocent and ignorant rural women to PBK cult. I does not cook with thinking people.
Cult needs defending
Hinduism need not be defended by me. There are huge big powerful people to defend the same.
Hinduism stand by itself. All answers are within it. If you want to see the answers, see it. Or try finding fault. It will be like a mosquitoe trying to suck the blood of an elephant.
Mosquitoes only give diseases. They cannot do any good.
Do not be one. Be a thinking and intelligent human being.
Best wishes and regards,
Satya.

Please think patiently.

Hinduism is several thousands of years old. Or may be much more old. It is the most patient religion in the world. It has successfully withstood massive attackes. A few mosquitoes cannot make a difference to Hindus. These mosquitoes are born only a few years ago and so will perish when their time comes. So, as you have no time you cannot be patient. Be in a hurry so that maximum number of people will be fooled.
Satya