Thinking vs. silence of the mind

[avyakt7]

is not the "I think" Maya? (an illusion) If we use the knowledge of predestination, we will find out that the role plays which triggers sanskaras which triggers feelings or emotions and thoughts. "Not thinking" is not to keep the mind absent from thoughts, but no to think with the "I" as the "creator" of thoughts. "Drawing the line" to see what is proper and what is not, is to use thoughts to get rid of thoughts...

That "I" is the one which tires us out, producing thoughts which are wasteful. ( "I" need this, If "I" do this," I" will get in trouble, if "I" don't say it this way, then everyone will think that I am...)

The other day a BK friend of mine received a speeding ticket. It was quite expensive ticket. He was getting late to an interview. Then he found out from an influential friend that a lawyer can erase that from his driving record by paying only half of that amount. Her friend, had several speeding tickets in one month and she mentioned that everything was cleared. She gave the number of the firm and asked him to call.
The problem is: Do I pay the lawyer or the city? Any one of those will solve the issue, but one of them will be more costly than the other.

Here comes the thinking: "society offers a way to get out cheaply and without repercussions from this ticket incident. The tickets now are more expensive than 1 or 2 years ago. Someone comes up with whatever amount they wish for a ticket. Sometimes they may be an urgent need to accelerate while driving, but the risk of getting caught is there as well." The drama is offering this BK a chance to get out of this cheaply. After all, influential people do it without problems."

Here comes the knowledge within without thinking: The minute this BK thought about calling the lawyers, something made him not feel good about it.Then, he did not go with the lawyers and just paid the full amount.

It is not a "sin" to go 60 mph when the sign indicates "45 mph", but this is a rule and there is enforcement. You break it, you pay, if caught. That is the keyword "if caught". Paying less than what the "normal" price is to be absolved from the infraction, could be considered OK if legal. Laywers represent the legal system. so, it seems legal...etc. I can go on and on, thinking about this and writing several pages of well thought outs "thoughts" which are tiring. Once we hear our own conscience, we know the answer, the answer will be right for us the cleaner we maintain that consciousness, in other words, the less "I" is in it. However, the answer we receive is personal and does not necessarily apply to everyone.

The "I" thinks in function of "saving money", "being legal", "what everyone else will think about". etc. Our own consciousness when able to express itself will put things right... then you get a good sleep at night.. ;-)

[Sach_Khand]

In Bhaktimarg scriptures, it is said that there are five bodies (tools).
1) Annamaya, (of Anna, matter/?)
2) Pranamaya (of Prana, life energy/?)
3) Manomaya (of man, mind)
4) gnyanamaya (of gnyaana, intellect)
5) anandmaya (of anand, bliss)

mind is continuously producing thoughts. It is not producing by itself. "I" am producing through manomaya tool. As in the computers with GUIs, we cannot do anywork without mouse pointer. Possibly, ego ie., "I" is similar to the mouse pointer and is essential to have it in the right place to do the necessary work. Then why is it a sin or why is vikarm hapenning?

Possibly because, we are not acting in totality. Meaning, we are forgetting the source (or the starting point) of action.
It all started in Anandmaya tool and then it took the form of Gnyaana i.e., knowledge, then it got expressed in the form of thoughts in the Manomaya tool and then it generated the reqiured energy or took the energy form in the pranamya tool and finally got expressed through annamaya tool into this physical world of bodies.
As we forget the beginning, the final expression is incomplete and leads to vikarama or sin.

But "I" am not any of these tools. And this "I" is present even before the chicken and egg. This "I" is beyond time or can get beyond time. So, I feel that answer to the chicken - egg philosophy is that tools which are within the scope of time are eternal and the real "I" is also eternal and gets in the circular path and can get outside the circular path? But who is the first to get out of this circular path? GOD?

It is getting late, I have to go, will continue later.

:neutral:
Sanjeev.

[avyakt7]

Thanks for your reply. I see that you know about those "tools" of Bhaktimarg.
Your question: "Then why is it a sin or why is vikarm hapenning?" is easily answered once we are aware of Gyan in relationship with dualism.
Basically it happens because if we do "good", we must do "bad". If we lose "our kingdom" we must "get it back". Duality was understood by Taoism and Godly knowledge emphasizes that very often although, with Bhakti characteristics. Predestination is there only for continuity, for the Drama to continue for eternity. Therefore, anything that happens even in our thoughts are predetermined.

Whatever we think is predestined and necessary. This unlimited game it is not just about "me" but about the whole humanity. Every role is needed and that role fits us like a "glove". Thus, there is no need to think too much but just to be aware. Awareness is the key of this unlimited game. As our awareness so, our experiences.

Now, this part of Godly knowledge is very difficult for many to grasp, and even more difficult to put it practical.

[Sach_Khand]

contd.

I think that GOD is not without body and is not outside this cycle, although He is capable of it whenever He wants to.
I have written some of my recent thoughts in the post with the link below.

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=2177&start=15#p34041

In Murlis it is said that ShivBaba does not have his own body and remains out of this world drama untill the Purushottam Sangamyug i.e., till the confluence of Kaliyug and Satyug. He does not take physical birth, but gets into the body of Prajajpita and brings transformation.

I feel that all the above said things is about the Sangamyug. In Sangamyug, when the shooting takes place the soul of Dada Lekharaj Himself plays ShivBaba and Mama Saraswati plays the role of Prajapita Brahma. And GodFather ShivBaba is incorporeal and Mama Saraswati is corporeal. (Earlier I have written that soul of Mama Saraswati is always subtle and never becomes corporeal in Sangamyug. But now I feel that it is not so.) Dada Lekharaj is GodFather ShivBaba i.e., Baap and Mama Saraswati is Dada. And although this Mama is Brahma (Prajapita) and Jagadamba, but is in male body. And this is the reason why it is said that actually this Brahma is Jagadamba althoguh body is a male body. Murli is discussion and teaching of Dada Lekharaj to Mama Saraswati, when both were present in the physical body of Dada Lekharaj after the demise of Mama.
As Dada Lekharaj is GodFather and Gita sermoniser, in the early days of yagnya no word of "Shiv" is present and in the literature it is written, Prajapati Brahma, the Gita Inventor.
In Murlis there is said about Hiranyakashyap and also it is said that the one who teaches is greater. In my opinion this all has happened because Mama's soul starts ignoring Dada Lekharaj and thinks that it's part is the part of ShivBaba. And is in confusion that how can a human being Dada Lekharaj be GodFather? And this is the reason for all the Murlis. If not there was no need for Murlis. ShivBaba cannot do anything without this Prajajapita Brahma or Dada.

So This GOD although is in the cycle, is the owner (Malik) of this universe. And is always continuouslu monitoring the world business by His being itself. The subtle deities Brahma Vishnu Shankar are already created before Sangamyug and ShivBaba through this Trimurti (who are subtle and do not have physcial bodyies) runs the world affair in Sangamyug.

As a billionaire or any rich person keeps his wealth safely so that is not taken by unwanted people, similalry He keeps His wealth, The True Spiritual Knowledge, locked within the complex system of human being. As files are secured in a computer. Files are there in the hard disk but cannot be accessed and if someone gets access still cannot read them because they are encrypted and if someone even makes efforts and read it cannot understand the matter as it is in coded form.
When knwoledge of this physical world itself is of such importance and is kept so secured, just imagine how precious is the knowledge of Universe and Spiritual world. And with that knowledge there is no need of physical tools, knowledge itself is enough to eperience it and use it's power. So, that is very very, vvvv... precious. And is totally safeguarded so that Ravan and his assosciates cannot get access to it.

There is a Murli point which says that it is not like aunty's home to get faith in GodFather. In Hindi, " Baap mein nischaybuddhi hona koi maasi ka ghar naheen hai. (might not be exact words)"

:neutral:
Sanjeev.

[avyakt7]

contd.

I think that GOD is not without body and is not outside this cycle, although He is capable of it whenever He wants to.

So This GOD although is in The Cycle, is the owner (Malik) of this universe. And is always continuouslu monitoring the world business by His being itself. The subtle deities Brahma Vishnu Shankar are already created before Sangamyug and ShivBaba through this Trimurti (who are subtle and do not have physcial bodyies) runs the world affair in Sangamyug.

There is a Murli point which says that it is not like aunty's home to get faith in GodFather. In Hindi, " Baap mein nischaybuddhi hona koi maasi ka ghar naheen hai. (might not be exact words)"
:neutral:
Sanjeev.

Sach_Khand;

Thank you for sharing your thoughts. Thoughts are important but I feel that when we are talking about Godly knowledge, we need to go beyond that. Why?
Everyone has a thought... but not everyone can make logical and reasonable sense of our thoughts and explain Gyan in a reasonable manner using known facts as premises.
Yes, this may sound too intellectual, but through this way of communication (writing) there is no better choice, I feel.

Predestination means that the words "whenever He wants to" are out of the question. The fact is He will not want to.
God being the owner of the universe? Although it sounds good and it shows your appreciation/love for God; Gyan does not support this. "Ownership" is a body conscious trait. A soul does not need to own anything. There is no need for anyone to run "world affairs". Many times we feel that our understanding of the physical world also applies to the spiritual world and you will find that it is not so.Predestination, the Drama does not need anyone to oversee anything. Bhaktimarg has been a very strong influence for many years and most of us are still under its influence.
Plain "Bhakti-less" knowledge, what I call "straight-forward" liberates us from falling into the trap of Hindu devotion or any other devotional path (Christianity, etc). However, as you know we are numberwise on this and everything is alright.. so thank you for sharing... :D

[Sach_Khand]

Sach_Khand;

Thank you for sharing your thoughts. Thoughts are important but I feel that when we are talking about Godly knowledge, we need to go beyond that. Why?
Everyone has a thought... but not everyone can make logical and reasonable sense of our thoughts and explain Gyan in a reasonable manner using known facts as premises.
Yes, this may sound too intellectual, but through this way of communication (writing) there is no better choice, I feel.

But even this is predestined.

Predestination means that the words "whenever He wants to" are out of the question. The fact is He will not want to.

Are you robot or human being. I understand that robots do not have wants. But living beings have and humans too have wants. It is another thing that whether we are able to fulfill our want or not. Or whether the want is right or wrong.

Sun rises in the east. And it is predestined to set in the west. There has to be some factors that are governing the motion os the sun and all planetery bodies. Is it that humans have no choice? Are humans nothing more than robots? If so, then we should not have pleasures and pains because pleasures and pains are due to fulfillment or unfulfillment of wants.
Imagine a cow that is tied to a bullock cart (in India we see them). And the owner of the cart is driving back to his village after buying the cow in a market. So no, the destination of thecow is predestined. It has to go to the village of it's master. And to his home. Even the road is almost predestined. It is decided by the master. So, now is it that cow has no choice to choose it's path? Is it that every step of the cow is predestined? Sure;y, one who has the capacity to travel in time can see the future and tell the path and every step the cow is to take in it's jpurney. But still, cow has the choice to put it's next step. Although cow is tied to the bullock cart and has no choice but to follow the cart or else get dragged by the cart. But still there is freedom, limited freedom for that cow depending on the length of the rope by which it is tied to the cart. And the cow has choice to make before it takes the next step. An intelligent cow understand it's limitation of freedom and it's inability to change it's destination. And enjoys the scenery on it's way and joyfully treds it's path avoiding pains that can come due to stepping on a thorn or in a ditch or striking a stone. But a foolish cow will try to struggle with it's destination and change it's destination and as a consequence will be dragged by the cart. And another foolish cow will decide that anyway it has to follow the cart then why try avoiding thorns and ditches and stones. Anyway, as it is predestined, let the legs experience the pains that are to come by stepping on thorns, etc.,.
But still there is another class of cows, which have transcended and can actually see that hey, this is a cow that is following the cart tied to it. And such cows are totally distinct from the bodies of the cow and can see themselves as separate beings. And they enjoy the journey and also do not care for the thorns and stones and ditches on the way. Because anyway, there is the cow that is going, why should I care. I am separate being from that cow. But will surely take care of that cow from getting harmed.

God being the owner of the universe? Although it sounds good and it shows your appreciation/love for God; Gyan does not support this. "Ownership" is a body conscious trait.

NO. It is not so. By ownership, I do not mean the papers and legal authorities. I mean the ability to execute the power on something. We say this is my own book. Similalry the universe is His own.

A soul does not need to own anything.

But still it owns. And hence executes it's power and if it wrongly executes it's power, it faces problems and experiences pain.

There is no need for anyone to run "world affairs". Many times we feel that our understanding of the physical world also applies to the spiritual world and you will find that it is not so.

But still world affairs are run by strong nations and strong politicians and drug mafia and beauty queens and arms dealers and ...

Surely, spiritual world is different from physical world. And it's principles are different. But still every soul is running it's affair in it's world and is responsible and accountable for it's deeds.

Predestination, the Drama does not need anyone to oversee anything. Bhaktimarg has been a very strong influence for many years and most of us are still under its influence.

It is wrong. The drama is predestined, because it is overseen by An Entity which by it's natural being is viceless and hence omnipotent. Everything runs relative to That Being. That is The Absolute Truth, because everything else is in relation to That. And That is God.

Plain "Bhakti-less" knowledge, what I call "straight-forward" liberates us from falling into the trap of Hindu devotion or any other devotional path (Christianity, etc). However, as you know we are numberwise on this and everything is alright.. so thank you for sharing... :D

Devotion is not a trap. The egoistic nature of ours is a trap. That egoistic nature of ours does not allow us to understand what is said in Hindus or Christians or Moslems etc., And also makes us to edit the things which are not liked by us.
And Surely, we all are numberwise. So we all are right in our own way.

:neutral:
Sanjeev.

[avyakt7]

Right Sanjeev... we are all right in our own way... is not that a wonder! and then some think that the truth is absolute an others relative... others that, we have "free will" and others that we are "predestined"...and yet... all of those thoughts which apparently are opposite... are right....Numberwise is a deep word... Interpretations and more interpretations...

Take care. :D