Queries to PBKs by mbbhat

[warrior]

"They stayed (with Dada Lekhraj) for 10 years... she used to enter trance. They used to teach Mama(Om Radhe) and Baba(Dada Lekhraj) the drill (of meditation). Baba used to enter into them and give directions... they commanded so much respect. They are not present today. There wasn’t so much knowledge at that time." [Mu 25.07.67]

This picture shows Karachi times as how the classes used to be conducted.

[fluffy bunny]

Who is the sister on the guddhi?

Thanks for this.

Looking at your other post of Kunj Dadi's death, where Nirwair claims she has gone to join the Advance Party, what would have happened to these souls?

If this soul was truly the medium or Chariot for the Shiva soul ... as the picture and Murli reference make absolutely clear ... would their part seriously have just ended there and then?

So what say you now mbbhat?

It's amazing to look back at when I was a BK. How little we were told or thought about such deeper matters. How little they spoke of such matter ... and how much the leaders kept hidden from us. Our time was literally wasted. I suppose the BKs have ripped this reference out of the Murlis and thrown it away.

Why were they hiding it?

It's easy for the BKs to now turn around and say, "Oh they had some internal weakness and so they left" (and the elderly man would have just died) ... but everything we know about the BKs now suggest that there could have been some ethical conflict with the Lekhraj Kirpalani worshipers.

[shivsena]

Warrior Bhai.....Bhakti-marg describes Maa Saraswati as Goddess of knowledge--Goddess of intellect---Goddess of wisdom.....so there is no one more wiser than Mama Saraswati in the Yagya(past-present-future)....those who think otherwise, should re-think again.

[Roy]

Who is the sister on the guddhi?

Good question... i would also like to know what year this was taken.

Thanks for this.

Indeed, thanks warrior Bhai.

If this soul was truly the medium or Chariot for the Shiva soul ... as the picture and Murli reference make absolutely clear ... would their part seriously have just ended there and then?

The soul on the gaddi may be a trance messenger rather than a Chariot... but without knowing the date of this photograph, it is hard to know what exactly is going on here. If this was taken after 1947, then the sister on the gaddi is almost certainly a trance messenger, as Brahma Baba became the Chariot at this time. She doesn't look old enough to be one of the original three that ran the Yagya, which are the "they" mentioned in the point warrior Bhai has quoted. Even if she turns out to be Adi Radhe Sita(i think Jagadamba Gita mata may have left the Yagya by this time), i don't think it's totally clear whether Father Shiv actually entered her as a Chariot, during the first 10 years of the Yagya... although we can be certain that he entered Prajapita and Jagadmaba Gita Mata in 1936/7, according to the Murlis. If it turns out she is Adi Radhe Sita, that would be most interesting.

[Roy]

Warrior Bhai.....Bhakti-marg describes Maa Saraswati as Goddess of knowledge--Goddess of intellect---Goddess of wisdom.....so there is no one more wiser than Mama Saraswati in the Yagya(past-present-future)....those who think otherwise, should re-think again.

Although Mama almost certainly plays a part through the practical Saraswati at the end, the title is not hers, as it goes to the body, which is that of Sister Vedanti according to the teaching of the AIVV. Mama Jagadamba Saraswati, is only the title holder... she was appointed to look after the mothers, because the soul playing the part of Jagadamba at this time, was in a male costume(Brahma Baba Krishna).

"Do you know Prajapita Brahma(Ram) and his mouth-born creation (child Krishna Brahma Baba)? The one who is called Saraswati(Sita Adi Radhe) is the goddess of knowledge. She is called the goddess of knowledge. This one(Brahma Baba Krishna) is Jagadamba (as Brahma means, Senior mother, which Dada Lekhraj becomes in 1947/8, after Father Shiv enters him for the first time, in Karachi). So surely there would be her children(mouthborn progeny) and also her Father. He (Shiv) is the One who gives knowledge. So, who are this Prajapita(Ram-Adam) and Jagadamba(Krishna-Eve, who play the main hero/heroine parts in the Confluence Age)? She (Saraswati- Adi Radhe Sita) is also called the goddess of wealth(Lakshmi). At that time (i.e. before Sita Adi Radhe recognises that Father Shiv has entered Prajapita-Ram), she is not the goddess of knowledge. This Brahma(Ram) and Saraswati(Sita) then (after Sita has recognised the living or practical Ram ShivBaba) become the king and queen (i.e. Lakshmi-Narayan or Ram-Sita of the Confluence Age). Therefore, their children must surely also become the masters of heaven (i.e. Radhe-Krishna, are born to Ram-Sita, after 2036/7, in the Golden Age)." [Mu 17.12.08]

"When there are two unlimited fathers (Shiv & Prajapita-Ram-), then there should be two mothers also surely. One is Jagdamba(Gita Mata), secondly this Brahma(Baba Krishna) is also a mother (incognito or secret Jagadamba)." [Mu 03.02.78]

 "Brahma(Baba Krishna) is not the mouthborn progeny of Shiv(he is the mouth born progeny of Prajapita-Ram and Jagadamba Gita Mata). ShivBaba comes and enters in this one (Brahma Baba Krishna, in 1947/8 in Karachi - when he reaches the age of 60) and makes him His own. This one (Brahma Baba Krishna) is also a creation (who takes spiritual birth at the beginning of the Yagya, directly through Gita Mata) . First He (Shiv) creates Brahma(Adi Brahma Jagadamba Gita Mata) and not Vishnu(Sita- Adi Radhe). It is even sung – Brahma, Vishnu and Shankar. It is not said – Vishnu, Shankar and Brahma. First Brahma(Adi Brahma Jagadamba) is created. Brahma(Dada Lekhraj)’s occupation (or role) is different (to hers - i.e. Adi Brahma Gita Mata). All these matters are to be understood. He(Shiva) is called – You are my Mother and Father. So He is incorporeal isn’t He? So, mother (Brahma Baba Krishna) and Father (Prajapita-Ram) are required in corporeal form; only then do they ask – Is there a mother of Mama(Om Radhe)? It will be said – Yes; Brahma(Adi Brahma Gita Mata Jagadamba) is Mama’s(Om Radhe's) mother as well. Brahma(Adi Brahma Jagadamba) does not have any (corporeal) mother (as her role is created when Father Shiv enters her to narrate the accurate account of Dada Lekhraj's visions, to Prajapita-Ram - then she receives the seed of knowledge through him, in the form of the clarification of their meaning). Since this mother (Brahma Baba Krishna) is not a female, Saraswati(Om Radhe) is called Mama." [Mu 26.10.07]

“The Father says – I certainly require a Chariot. When I, the husband am big, then my wife should also be big. Saraswati(Om Radhe) is Brahma(Jagadamaba Gita Mata)’s mouthborn progeny. She is not Brahma(Baba Krishna)’s wife, she is Brahma(Gita Mata)’s daughter. Then why is she called Jagadamba(World Mother)? It is because this one(Brahma Baba Krishna - the incognito Jagadamaba) is a male, isn’t he? So, she(Om Radhe) has been kept to take care of the mothers. Brahma’s mouthborn progeny Saraswati, is Brahma(Gita Mata's)’s daughter. Mama(Om Radhe) is young, Brahma(Baba Krishna) is old. Young Saraswati does not fit as Brahma’s wife. She cannot be called a half partner.” [Mu 11.10.08]

“In reality, this Brahma(Baba Krishna) is mother(the part of mother is played through him, by Father Shiv, from 1947/8 to 1968/9). But because of his male body, how can he be kept in charge of the mothers? For this reason, Jagadamba(Om Radhe) has been made instrumental.” [Mu 18.05.78]

[fluffy bunny]

The soul on the gaddi may be a trance messenger rather than a Chariot... She doesn't look old enough to be one of the original three that ran the Yagya, which are the "they" mentioned in the point warrior Bhai has quoted.

I am guessing here, because the photo could have just been taken when she had her eyes closed, but by her pose she seems to be moving and acting.

It looks more like an act of mediumship.

Who did Piyu enter into? Was Piyu Shiva?

* Let's note mbbhat silence on such matters. I mean, they could just go and ask the BK leaders to resolve all this but they won't. Instead they'll just say all this is unimportant to their blind Bhakti and how showing respect to all the old Deceiver Dadis is far more important.

[arjun]

Actually, my point was- when Mr. Dixit left BK Yagya, why did not Shiv also leave BKWSU? Did even Shiv had attachment with childish intellect BBaba and the kourvas?

Another point is- Why did Shiv wait to enter dixit till Dada Lekhraj's death? This is also a point to be noted here. Or Dixit should have come to BK Yagya before death of DL itself also, is it not?

Claiming position of a person after his death (claiming position of DL/Prajapita after death of DL looks very silly, is it not?

A point here is- during beggary part, many children (more than 80%) left BKWSU. But, Shiv stayed with right people. So- when Sevakram had left Yagya in 1942 (or 1947, I am not sure), Shiv should have stayed with Sevakram himself , is it not (if Sevakram was the right person for the position of Prajapita).

Shiv does not have any attachment for any bodily being. His only aim is to give knowledge for world transformation. So, He enters in whichever medium that is fixed according to the drama.

As regards why did Shiv wait to enter Baba Virendra Dev Dixit till Lekhraj Kirpalani's death, I would like to say that the Chariot needed to be grown up and experienced and he also needed to become a Brahhmin before becoming Prajapita.

The soul on the gaddi may be a trance messenger rather than a Chariot.

I agree with roy Bhai.

[Roy]

Who did Piyu enter into? Was Piyu Shiva?

According to the BK Yagya History summary, the sister known as Pushpa began receiving trance messages after 1942, which would coincide with Prajapita leaving the Yagya. It was through Prajapita, that Father Shiv used to dictate knowledge to Dada Lekhraj Brahma, in the early mornings. So this may have been Father Shiv's way of communicating with the children a little more directly, after 1942; until he finally entered Brahma Baba, in 1947/8, when he would have been around 60 years old. After this Father Shiv would communicate directly with the children through Brahma Baba, and this is when Father Shiv said the Murlis started.

“The Murlis have started since (the days of) Karachi (in 1947). Earlier Baba(Shiv) did not narrate Murlis (directly to the children). He(Dada Lekhraj) used to get up at 2 o’clock in the night and write 10-15 pages. The Father(i.e. Shiv through Prajapita-Ram) used to dictate. Then they used to issue the copies (to the children of the Yagya).” [Mu 26.05.78]

"Baba(Dada Lekhraj) also used to initially write Murli and give it in your hands. Then (later in 1947) He(Father Shiv) used to narrate (directly through Brahma Baba Krishna).” [Mu 20.06.05]

"(Shiv)Baba is the Master. One can’t know as to when He comes. Yes, we can understand when He narrates Murli (directly to us)." [Mu 16.04.72]

[sita]

I am not so sure, but i believe i have heard something in the vcds that it has been through the mother that the dicatation used to take place. Maybe someone can throw more light.

[rmn]

OHM SHANTI TO ALL IT IS UNDERSTOOD FROM FB THROUGH RAJE PANKURI, THAT THE Veerendra Dev Dixit HIM SELF HAS TOLD THAT HE WAS NOT A SEVAK Ram. BECAUSE THE ANTI OHM MANDLI REPORT SAYS THAT THE SEVAK Ram IS THE SECRETARY OF THE ANTI OHM MANDLI. PL KNOW CLEARLY

[mbbhat]

So what say you now mbbhat?

What is there to say? In the initial days- there was no gyaan. Murli points clearly BBaba and all were baby buddhis. And- Bbaba was given knowledge through others by trance, etc.

* Let's note mbbhat silence on such matters. I mean, they could just go and ask the BK leaders to resolve all this but they won't.

You mean to say- everything can be resolved?

Has AIVV which claims God is there with them, be able to resolve?

I do not think these can be resolved by anyone- even by Dadi Janaki. Murli is like that. It is magic or puzzle.

You have found documents which say- age of BBaba was 41 during 1936, then can everything be resolved?

From the picture given above- (the trance message), what do you guess age of Bbaba at that time? It should be in Karachi so- between 1937 to 1947. The age seems to be clearly sixty plus, almost 65 above for me. You may mention what you feel about age of BBaba from that picture.

[We/you have other documents saying age of dob of DL is 1884]

But, the following document says- BBaba was just 41 during 1936!

Now, you may resolve at least age of Lekhraj Kirpalani first. Let us see how many people certify you.
-------------

The BK literature says- not sure BBaba got vision during his late 50s - mostly then he would be between 55 to 60 during 1936. And, from the picture, it seems that BBaba was close to 60 during 1936.

[mbbhat]

BKs cannot reply in this forum

http://bk-pbk.info/viewtopic.php?f=2&t= ... ita#p46000

Hence I am giving reply here.

AUM SHANTI.

Dear Brothers and Sisters,

I was going through a Murli point and thought of sharing the same with you all.

"Prajapita zaroor yahan hi hoga|Unka antim janm Lekraj hai|Vah to Prajapita ban nahin saktha|" Mu.21.08.73

This Murli point straight away proves the theory of BKs considering Dada Lekraj as Prajapita to be false. Shiv1976.

I doubt here regarding accuracy of the Murli point. It would be better to have one or two sentences before and after.

A high typing error either by BKs or by PBKs can be suspected here.

See- the point given is-

Prajapita zaroor yahan hi hoga|Unka antim janm Lekraj hai|Vah to Prajapita ban nahin saktha|

meaning is= Prajapita would be definitely here. His (Prajapita's ) last birth is Lekhraj. He cannot be Prajapita.

The second sentence says- "his" last birth is Lekhraj, Whose? definitely Prajapita's, is it not? [see the first sentence] So- it automatically implies LRaj is Prajapita!.

If "His" stands for someone, then the "He" in the third sentence could be also be for someone*, need not be to LRaj.

* - may be said to subtle Brahma. So- we need to know sentences before and after. Even then there is need to explain who is the "His" in the second sentence, which says "His" last birth is Lekhraj, - so His (name of the first birth) should be explained in the Murli point. is it said there?

So- both the Murli point and one who derived conclusion are ambiguous.

[Shiv1976]

AUM SHANTI.

Dear mbbhat Bhai,

I do not have the Sakar Murli with me. I have given the date of the Murli reference. If possible, any of you can check and confirm the actual sentences from the Murli.

Regarding "His" and "He", I think this is said for Dada Lekraj. Because, here is one Murli point which says

"Ab Prajapita Brahma to manushya Shrishti main hai|" [Mu- 20.11.88]

If this point is considered, then I have a question where is he now?. Sookshumvatan cannot be said to be a place where people live.Till 18th of jan,1969 without doubt we can say that Dada Lekraj was holding the title of Prajapita. Question comes only after he left his body. Even if BKs tell that Brahma Baba still comes in Dadi Gulzar and claim that to be Sakar, then the Vanis narrated should not be called "Avyakt Vani". It has never been told that "Avyakt Prajapita Brahma Chagiye".
Also another point."Muje Prajapita Brahma Zaroor Chagiye|... Brahma ka bap kaun hai? koyi Bathave"[Mu-4-11-73]

"Yah Brahma hai adopted|Prajapita Brahma Dwara Brahman|"[Mu-6.2.71]

Shiv1976.

[mbbhat]

Shiv 1976 wrote:- I do not have the Sakar Murli with me. I have given the date of the Murli reference. If possible, any of you can check and confirm the actual sentences from the Murli.

That is right. Till there- I think it would be ambiguous.

Regarding "His" and "He", I think this is said for Dada Lekraj. Because, here is one Murli point which says

Regarding he, and his- of a Murli, we need to check one or two sentences adjacent to that Murli point, is it not? Or is there need to check it from another Murli? If you believe we should check it from another Murli, then it should agree with all the Murlis- wherever he and his are used, is it not?

"Ab Prajapita Brahma to manushya Shrishti main hai|" [Mu- 20.11.88]

These are discussed well before and many typing error or mis interpretation are mentioned.

http://bk-pbk.info/viewtopic.php?f=9&t= ... oor#p41902

[mbbhat]

from here- http://bk-pbk.info/viewtopic.php?f=2&t= ... 119#p46119

It has already been clarified* that Baba Veerendra Dev Dixit has nowhere* claimed that he was Sevakram in his past birth. It is only mentioned in the publications of AIVV that the soul of Shankar (or Confluence Age Ram) was Brahma Baba's partner in his previous birth. Since the name of Sevakram has been popularised by BKWSU through a comic book for children, the name was being used by BKs and PBKs*. But the actual name of the business partner is a matter of research.

Good going.

1)When was this clarified?

2) Really nowhere? But, PBKs had been using that comic book to prove/target BKs. They also believed in that name, had used, uttered many times. Was that right?

3) So- on whose directions did PBKs had been using that name till recent? was it by Shiv through Dixit or by Dixit or by PBKs themselves without taking any permission from Mr. Dixit?

So- can this be an example of PBKs following BKs blindly?