Queries to PBKs by mbbhat

[mbbhat]

As for you. mbbhat, why don't you just go and do the Advance Course?

They demand letter of faith before giving the full course*. I had already mentioned before and sister Larena soul also had mentioned it.

Still if you cannot understand what can I do?

And, I do not expect someone to sit for me and spend his valuable time for me to explain. So- I put here without expectation. If anyone is ready to reply, let them, else, there is no compulsory or obligation to explain to me.

It would be wrong if I ask someone to spend his time, money, energy especially for me to explain these things (when the probability of getting the belief is not good). [At that time, when I had been interested, I was asked to give letter of faith].

But, in forums like this, it would not be wrong. Because each one himself is ready to put his time for arguments or discussions.

I think- it is not only correct, but also foolishness when you ask someone- why cannot you do so? Why cannot you just go there, why do you do so, etc , etc, - that too many times.

But, if you still ask me in such ways, it is OK, I will consider them as sometimes your good wishes to me, sometimes your LLU, sometimes your part in drama- according to my level of conscious at that time.

* - In BKWSU, the faith depends on the feeling of God and heaven. Rest are immaterial for me. But, since pbk philosophy is based on literal figures and facts, (like what is DOB of Sevakram and DL, ...)- without knowing the accuracy of these, how can faith be right- especially in my case.

For PBKs, even heaven is not important, but just the first birth in heaven is important. For them even God is not important. That is- if god is in DL it is not important. But, God's role in VD, only important. Even words of God (Murli = words of God through DL) is not important or valuable. But, when they are explained through a human (VD), then only it gets value(!?) If you remember God anywhere, it of no use! If you remember god in VD, then only it has value!

For them, even the full period (5000 yrs) of drama is called as limited drama! and something within this drama (just conf age) is called as unlmited drama!

So- when a philosophy puts too many limits to God, Drama, the spiritual effort as well as HIS creation- how can I give letter of faith to them?

So- if they are going to disprove some philosophy and prove their philosophy based on these literal figures and facts, or such logics, then all of such dates and figures and logic should fit properly in their organization, too- is it not?

But, these are just to make points clear, else- nothing is so important now. Let us hope they can prepare better for tomorrow when such questions are put today. Or if there is really truth in them, then it does not matter either they reply to such questions or not. Time only can prove. So- even I cannot say- Oh- I have put such and such great questions.

All is drama for me, nothing more.

[arjun]

1)I think the year 1947/8 should be 1942/3 is it not? Mostly an error.

2)Om Radhe left her body in 1965 itself. Then who was instrumental from 1965 to 1969? Was there no instrumental Jagadamba in Yagya during this period?

3) Is there role of Jagadamba and Jagatpita in BKWSU after 1969?

If DL played role of just title holder Jagatpita till 1969 in BKWSU (and Mama as title holder or instrumental Jagadamba till 1965) , is his role after in BKWSU after 1969 instrumental Jagadamba or title holder Jagadamba, or real Jagadamba or title holder Jagatpita - how many of these?

4) What do PBKs say about AIVV:- do they believe AIVV started in 1969 or in 1976 or any other year?

5) And, when the post of Jagadamba was first filled in AIVV? and, how many mothers and children were there at that time in AIVV?

1. The dates are as per Murlis. You can think whatever you wish.
2. Titleholder Mama left her body in 1965, but the head of vijaymala (believed to be BK Vedanti) had entered the BK Yagya by then.
3. There is no Jagdamba and Jagatpita in BKWSU after 1969. Even before that from 1947-1969 the persons incharge were just titleholders, not the real ones.
4. The new and practical part of ShivBaba was revealed in 1976-77, but AIVV was formally started in 1982.
5. Kamala Devi surrendered herself for Godly service in 1983 which was hinted in the Avyakt Vani of 1983, but as far as I know she was accepted as Mama a few years later from 1988-89, when the number of PBKs and surrendered sisters increased.

[arjun]

They demand letter of faith before giving the full course*. I had already mentioned before and Sister Larena soul also had mentioned it.

It has been discussed several times. Sister Larena's case might be an aberration as she was a double foreigner (and even her story has not been confirmed so far as she hasn't revealed her identity). PBKs are asked to give letter of faith only after giving the course or after explaining the Trimurti picture. Murlis say that you should make the students write letter of faith after explaining Trimurti. Since BKs do not have ShivBaba in practical with them, they have forgotten this Godly direction while PBKs follow it.

And, I do not expect someone to sit for me and spend his valuable time for me to explain. So- I put here without expectation. If anyone is ready to reply, let them, else, there is no compulsory or obligation to explain to me.

You don't expect, but deliberately make insulting comments again and again simply to waste our time. If we don't reply to your repeated comments you insult us further by telling that we don't have replies. And if we reply you make many times more comments than us. So, please don't make such false claims that you don't have expectations.

For PBKs, even heaven is not important, but just the first birth in heaven is important. For them even God is not important. That is- if god is in DL it is not important. But, God's role in VD, only important. Even words of God (Murli = words of God through DL) is not important or valuable. But, when they are explained through a human (VD), then only it gets value(!?) If you remember God anywhere, it of no use! If you remember god in VD, then only it has value!

All false statements.

For them, even the full period (5000 yrs) of drama is called as limited drama! and something within this drama (just conf age) is called as unlmited drama!

So- when a philosophy puts too many limits to God, Drama, the spiritual effort as well as HIS creation- how can I give letter of faith to them?

This has been said in the Murlis. So, if you don't believe in Murlis, then there is no use arguing. You can spread as many lies as you wish.

[mbbhat]

2. Titleholder Mama left her body in 1965, but the head of vijaymala (believed to be BK Vedanti) had entered the BK Yagya by then.
3. There is no Jagdamba and Jagatpita in BKWSU after 1969. Even before that from 1947-1969 the persons incharge were just titleholders, not the real ones.

4. The new and practical part of ShivBaba was revealed in 1976-77, but AIVV was formally started in 1982.
5. Kamala Devi surrendered herself for Godly service in 1983 which was hinted in the Avyakt Vani of 1983, but as far as I know she was accepted as Mama a few years later from 1988-89, when the number of PBKs and surrendered Sisters increased.

2. Had she taken charge of Yagya like Mama from 1965? so- is Vedanti Bhen also just title holder like Mama from 1965?
3. One point here- If there were no real ones during that period, then how can Yagya/BKWSU be called as Yagya?

And- how can the shooting of BKWSU be called as Golden Age, Silver Age, etc in broad drama?

Yagya should have been at lowkik places where VDixit took birth and shooting of Golden Age, etc should have been there, is it not?

4. Why the gap here? Can there be possibility that Mr. Dixit after reading and reading Murli found a hole in BKWSU (that BKs could not find the explanation for 1976 destruction Murli point), then took chance that he himself is Prajapita later (at 1982). Is this not very easy to understand?

5. Why the gap here again? does not this imply again that here also Dixit tried to cut and paste something from soemewhere like mentioned above? You may give the Avyakt Vani point if you like.

But, here, we can see a large gap between the filling post of Jagatpita and Jagadamba in AIVV. So- till 1983, there was neither title holder Jagadamba, nor practical Jagadamba in AIVV?

But again there is another gap here- from 1983 to 1988- 89, so here also we can see another possibility that Mr. Dixit might have announced the date later- else why the acceptance was later in 1988-89?

OK, good Yagya.

[fluffy bunny]

4. The new and practical part of ShivBaba was revealed in 1976-77, but AIVV was formally started in 1982.

Thank you. That is useful for me. The Professor who wrote the new book on the BK got this very wrong and claimed it was in the 1960s. I wonder why the BKs allowed him to do so?

Mbbhat, I have asked you before not to insult me. You keep repeating that I have a "Low Level of Understanding". I have explained to you many times, "no, I have a very Low Level of Acceptance".

I 'understand' perfectly well what little there is to understand in the BKWSU but I don't 'accept' it. Indeed, much of what the BKWSU teaches has been shown how to be false and there is, in fact, very little to 'understand' at all ... but an awful lot to 'accept' on faith. Accepting on faith is Bhakti and it is what most BKs are still engaged in ... blind faith in many cases.

I would define the Basic Knowledge as "acceptance by repetition" of simple literal claims where, for right or for wrong, the BKs who now following the AIVV are attempting to understand the more metaphorical meanings of the knowledge. To understand does not mean to accept. One can understand and reject.


It is questionable if someone whose sole intention is to deliberate confuse matters should be allowed to continue to post. It's not fair on others who come here attempting to learn.

Mbbhat has no intention of understanding. He is not benefiting himself or even serving the BKWSU. All he is doing is behaving like a little child cutting a book up and arranging the pieces in abstract patterns and expecting attention for doing so.

[mbbhat]

Who is child/baby intellect ?

PBKs say DL, and BKs are baby intellects.

But, we can see not even a single pbk has individual churning capacity. All of them are dependent on Mr. Dixit to clarify Murlis from birth till death (through out pbk life). So- PBKs are like babies getting feeded by their mother (Dixit).

And, even MR. Dixit depends on Murli from BKWSU, he has no Independency. So- can we call that intellect as another baby intellect?

Mr. Dixit could not recognize even simplest typing errors even when due to such errors the meaning of Murli points change drastically!

So- is not that a proof that even his intellect is baby one?

Anyhow, this is a food for thought for all truth seeking PBKs.

Others can ignore.

[mbbhat]

Mbbhat, I have asked you before not to insult me.....

Dear FB soul,

If you feel me about so (what you had written), then why do you repeatedly ask the same things? I have replied in full in the last post.

Are you upset or confused?

So- why do you come in between the discussion between me and PBKs?

Is not this very simple low level to understand? even a child can understand, is it not?

Actually, I have not insulted you. (May be replies in your own tone). But, if you feel you are insulted, then it is your once again perhaps your weakness or LLU (but you had said that your ex Bk life is very much wonderful and you like to play with me in this forum and also had said that you will try to keep me busy in this forum). Great soul, indeed.

Anyhow, you are a complete soul. So- nothing to worry.
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Thank you. That is useful for me. The Professor who wrote the new book on the BK got this very wrong and claimed it was in the 1960s. I wonder why the BKs allowed him to do so?

Good thing. So- this may imply either BKs are childish or are not much bothered about such things.

Now- will not this affect the truth searching process?

So- even what all documents you have found so far- may be Bhai Bund report, may be some affidavit you have seen/read , they also may have some errors, is it not?

But, never lose hope. You may succeed.

[fluffy bunny]

This is a public discussion. Anyone is free to speak.

If you want a private discussion with some PBKs, take it off the forum and into a private environment.

No, I am asking you to stop making deliberately false, insulting and provocative statements. It's as much about your intentions are the words you say. As I told you, I am not a complete soul so do not call me that, and yet you continue. Please do not.

Don't spoil the environment merely insulting, provoking and confusing things.

This is the similar criticism to what PBKs are, they say you have been given an answer many times and yet still persist in saying there is no answer or other falsehood.

I come here to learn and to share what I have learned.

• What is your intention?

As a BK you are wasting your time not only because you are serving no one, and hence "earning no fortune", but also because you are defaming the Baba by showing such a bad example of Brahma Kumarism.

You may not agree with the PBK's interpretation but at the very least you could use this opportunity to improve your dharna.

Instead, you are just squatting down outside the door of the PBKs and leaving little piles of smelly waste all over the place.

You're not pure. You're intentions are not pure. You're waste is not pure. And people are sick and tired of having to sweep it away like a toilet cleaner every time you leave one.

So either decide whether you want to come in and learn, or leave, but in either case, pull your dhoti up and behave with good manners.

[mbbhat]

This is a public discussion. Anyone is free to speak.
If you want a private discussion with some PBKs, take it off the forum and into a private environment.

I have no problem if you come in between me and PBKs. I just said so, because you get upset now and then. So- I asked if you get upset, why do you come in between?

You need to touch hot water, but expect to be cool, is it not? [or in better words, you are allergic to water, but still wish to touch it, is it not?]

I think- You cannot see PBKs failing to give replies and sometimes even your inability to cope up with the things . May be something like what you say in your own words- FUD (Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt). But, do not worry. It (FUD) is OK or perfectly normal for childish intellects, is it not? and- child will definitely grow one day, is it not? So- all these would be just for temporary period.

So- before complaining on others, first check yourself.

[You may call me as impure, bad BK, one who defames BKWSU, waste, blah, blah. It does not matter to me. I just showed that- when you feel or are proud that you have ability to criticize, defame others, let me make you also realize that- anyone can write so. There is absolutely no greatness in that.

So- if BKWSU keeps mum, does not reply to queries of people like you, you should understand why it keeps quiet at least from my posts]. But, I am not sure whether your intellect is able to understand even this at present.
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Now, if you believe anyone is free to speak, then why do you have problem with me? So- if you like to discuss just with PBKs, then it is your responsibility to take them to private environment, is it not?

You have absolutely no manners (your manner had been questioned long back in the old forum itself), but you expect from the other!

Wonderful logic and understanding level of a great truth seeker.

So- in future, do not say- "I like to play with you in this forum, I will try to keep you busy in this forum (even when sometimes mbbhat did not wish to reply)", else you may be caught in your own words.

It is a hopeless state that- you do not understand what you say? And call yourself as a great truth seeker and claim that you have come here to study!

But, if you are really correct (wish to just study and behave properly), then - I thank you great wonderful souls who like to make their life as student life in searching for truth in literal figures and facts.

Once again- let God or the members here bless you in your study and research so that you come up with flying colours.
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Just a point where you have stepped into the path of truth in practical unknowingly.:-

You're not pure. You're intentions are not pure.

So- now- you search for truth has changed from literal figures and facts into one's purity or intentions, right?

When you had found something wrong in literal facts like error is DOB of Lekhraj, you felt that you have found something great truth. but, when I pointed same types of errors in pbk philosophy, you were sad/upset. Actually, you should have appreciated even that- if you are real truth seeker, is it not? This showed your double standards.

But, now you if you are searching for one's intention or purity, then you are really on the path of truth. so- unless we understand one's purity or the intention, we cannot find truth.

So- first of all, you should try to understand intention of God - how he would come to the world, how he would purify, etc. then probably you may understand more- why initially, there was no mention of God Shiv, why it was just Prajapati, etc.

May be god had hinted you to search purity at least now. So- keep on concentrating purity.

[fluffy bunny]

Now, if you believe anyone is free to speak, then why do you have problem with me?

It is the same as in a real life discussion.

If one is having a real life discussion and someone is constantly disturbing it, deliberately confusing the issue and insulting others when asked not to, there comes a point when the people in the group turn around to him and tell him to stop.

It's people like you and the Vishnu Party that spoilt the 'all parties' group discussion at BK.info and made it impossible.

And here you are again doing the same thing.

As a BK we, the rest of the world, has a right to demand better dharna. That is actually what your god in the Murlis and leaders says.

Me? I am the lowest of the low ... I am expected to be devilish. You are the child of the highest on high (allegedly) and "must earn a pass mark from everyone". Fact.

Well, I am sorry. You're failing right now. Go and do some real service, or even better some real charity.

Rather than one of Baba's perfumed flowers in a mala ... you're like one of those smelly turds which despite however many times one flushes the toilet never quite seems to go down.

If you don't want to sincerely learn ... leave.

[mbbhat]

Well, I am sorry. You're failing right now.

I think you had been a failed member from the right beginning, or at least from the point when you chased me and engaged with me for discussions and discussions. Now, you see the result, is it not?.

The problem with you is- you cannot leave a person to express his views. You will try to force the other person (especially if he is a BK like me) to walk on your track and dance according to your tune. But, shortly, you see your track is getting spoiled due to its own weakness and the other person's capacity. Then you cannot tolerate. Then you get upset and put the blame on the other (but still carrying burden on your own head- unfortunate situation).

And, see the fun. When the other person thought of leaving the forum, you thought that it would be your failure (even though actually, not) due to your low self esteem, and LLU and said- "I will try to keep you busy, I ilke to play with you" and did many attempts. This was another failure of you.

If you don't want to sincerely learn ... leave.

And, now you see yourself, your full failure. You ask, beg or command the other person openly to leave! See your manners!

I think (most probably) - once you had said - that you have no objection if you are banned and are ready to leave the forum. But, now you expect the other person to leave.

Anyhow, the forum members have to see/witness the failures and failures of a great truth seeker, even after learning and learning. Very bad, is it not?

Anyhow, I wish to take long rest, or even if it happens permanent, it is OK.

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Just think or summarize what all you had thought of being with me, spent so much of time with me, even if I had neither asked, nor expected, you engaged and engaged with me. I had already expressed myself in the almost very beginning that- just 10% time (now, it has reduced to 2% of the full total) would be useful and the other are waste.

So- see what I had predicted or felt about me, I have the same thing even now. I had already said that i had wasted my time, I knew it. But, all your predictions/calculations failed and now you feel the loss as loss, is it not? Intelligent people will know the end situation long before. But, fools will realize only after it happens. So- it is wise if you first increase your intellect level and then do discussions with others to the extent beneficial to you. Is it not?

But, if you feel that all of your discussions with me had not been waste, and you have learnt from me (suppose if you feel the initial discussions were of useful), then you are lucky. So- like I had said- even in dis service, there would be at least some service hidden in it. Like Baba says- what all happens in drama, it is good.

So- you are really lucky even in failures, like a lotus in water.

This is another reason why I say- you are complete soul, because sometimes children do not realize their fortune, but Baba knows it. Similarly, you may feel , you are not complete, but you are. All the best. Nothing to worry. We will will meet together in heaven, right? So- when there would be no conflict, how can there be conflict here? Very simple logic is it not? So- what conflict you feel now, is actually just a dream. So- as soon as you open your eyes, conflict would end instantly.

Just dance in life, truth will follow you like shadow.

I do not know to what extent, you had been lucky or happy with me, but I am fully satisfied by you and you are a wonderful soul playing wonderful role in this wonderful drama, which no one except yourself can play. Many members have also admired you. So- you really have something best in you So- thank you and all the best. This is Confluence Age, better than heaven, is it not?

Murli point:- Amma mery toh bhi halwaa khaanaa, beebi marey toh bhi halwaa khanaa = even if mother dies, eat sweet, even if wife dies eat sweet.

So- except the sweet, what else can we eat? All other things are forbidden. so- even if ex BKs win, or the PBKs win, or the BKs win, all should be one and the same for the real truth seeker. Because the ability to dance is the measure of truth and nothing else.

Great knowledge is it not? So- unless a BK comes out of the BK label , he will not be able to realize depth of the knowledge.

[arjun]

2. Had she taken charge of Yagya like Mama from 1965? so- is Vedanti Bhen also just title holder like Mama from 1965?

She might not have taken charge of Yagya, but her presence and participation in the Yagya is also important. She is not just titleholder. She will be revealed in the world as Mother India.

3. One point here- If there were no real ones during that period, then how can Yagya/BKWSU be called as Yagya?

And- how can the shooting of BKWSU be called as Golden Age, Silver Age, etc in broad drama?

Yagya should have been at lowkik places where VDixit took birth and shooting of Golden Age, etc should have been there, is it not?

Mama and Baba may not be the real ones, but it was Shiv himself playing the role of Mother through Brahma Baba. So, even that period will be called as Yagya.

5. Why the gap here again? does not this imply again that here also Dixit tried to cut and paste something from soemewhere like mentioned above? You may give the Avyakt Vani point if you like.

But, here, we can see a large gap between the filling post of Jagatpita and Jagadamba in AIVV. So- till 1983, there was neither title holder Jagadamba, nor practical Jagadamba in AIVV?

But again there is another gap here- from 1983 to 1988- 89, so here also we can see another possibility that Mr. Dixit might have announced the date later- else why the acceptance was later in 1988-89?

Before accusing others please check your own house. Even the name BKWSU was coined many many years after the BK Yagya was established in 1936-37 (which was initially called Om Mandali).

And there was no gap in the Yagya from 1976-1982 as Kamala Devi had already entered the path of advance knowledge in 1976. It is only in 1983 that she surrendered herself for Godly service.

Who is child/baby intellect ?

PBKs say DL, and BKs are baby intellects.

But, we can see not even a single PBK has individual churning capacity. All of them are dependent on Mr. Dixit to clarify Murlis from birth till death (through out PBK life). So- PBKs are like babies getting feeded by their mother (Dixit).

And, even MR. Dixit depends on Murli from BKWSU, he has no Independency. So- can we call that intellect as another baby intellect?

Mr. Dixit could not recognize even simplest typing errors even when due to such errors the meaning of Murli points change drastically!

So- is not that a proof that even his intellect is baby one?

I have already said that you are greater than ShivBaba. So, the entire world is a child for you including Dada Lekhraj, Baba Virendra Dev Dixit, etc. :D

So- why do you come in between the discussion between me and PBKs?

It is surprising that you accuse others of doing what you yourself do most of the times. ;-)

So- if BKWSU keeps mum, does not reply to queries of people like you, you should understand why it keeps quiet at least from my posts]. But, I am not sure whether your intellect is able to understand even this at present.

BKWSU may not be replying to queries of PBKs and ex-BKs just to maintain its good image in the eyes of the world, but we know what all they do to defame the PBKs and to create obstacles for them behind the scenes. You are just the tip of an iceberg.

Anyhow, I wish to take long rest, or even if it happens permanent, it is OK.

You have made such resolutions many times in the past, but the fact is that you cannot live without hurling abuses at PBKs and ex-BKs even if that means bringing a bad name to BKWSU. You come back again and again to show your true colours (and thus the true colours of BKWSU). So, instead of making such promises which you cannot keep, try to pay attention to the noble suggestions of other members.

Just think or summarize what all you had thought of being with me, spent so much of time with me, even if I had neither asked, nor expected, you engaged and engaged with me. I had already expressed myself in the almost very beginning that- just 10% time (now, it has reduced to 2% of the full total) would be useful and the other are waste.

A big lie.

But, if you feel that all of your discussions with me had not been waste, and you have learnt from me (suppose if you feel the initial discussions were of useful), then you are lucky. So- like I had said- even in dis service, there would be at least some service hidden in it. Like Baba says- what all happens in drama, it is good.

Yes, we are really lucky to have you among us. :D

[mbbhat]

Mama and Baba may not be the real ones, but it was Shiv himself playing the role of Mother through Brahma Baba. So, even that period will be called as Yagya.

Actually, my point was- when Mr. Dixit left BK Yagya, why did not Shiv also leave BKWSU? Did even Shiv had attachment with childish intellect BBaba and the kourvas?

Another point is- Why did Shiv wait to enter dixit till Dada Lekhraj's death? This is also a point to be noted here. Or Dixit should have come to BK Yagya before death of DL itself also, is it not?

Claiming position of a person after his death (claiming position of DL/Prajapita after death of DL looks very silly, is it not?

A point here is- during beggary part, many children (more than 80%) left BKWSU. But, Shiv stayed with right people. So- when Sevakram had left Yagya in 1942 (or 1947, I am not sure), shiv should have stayed with Sevakram himself , is it not (if Sevakram was the right person for the position of Prajapita).

So- I just added to the list of the points which question accuracy/claims of PBKs. That is all.

It is surprising that you accuse others of doing what you yourself do most of the times.

It was not an accusation from my side. I have never asked someone should not in between the discussion, I know this is a public forum. But, since FB soul had problem with the discussions, I said to that soul (if it has problem and inability to cope up), why do you come in between.

I had already explained this. Still your intellect could not understand. This happens many times in the forum. Even though something is explained fully, you will not understand.

Before accusing others please check your own house. Even the name BKWSU was coined many many years after the BK Yagya was established in 1936-37 (which was initially called Om Mandali).

Sorry- it is not my house till 1947 or 1942 (till Sevakram left). It had been house of older PBKs only, is it not?

Yes, we are really lucky to have you among us.

Thank you. This is what is needed/felt. then it means our life is meaningful.

[fluffy bunny]

If the student has no sincere intention to learn; the teacher has no responsibility to teach them.

Mbbhat's intention is purely to confuse, make things appear ugly, jibe at individuals, and spoil this environment so no one can benefit from it.

I find their obsession with the PBKs absurd and their mode of operation third class. I suspect they are not thought of much better at the BK center.

[Roy]

Actually, my point was- when Mr. Dixit left BK Yagya, why did not Shiv also leave BKWSU? Did even Shiv had attachment with childish intellect BBaba and the kourvas? Another point is- Why did Shiv wait to enter dixit till Dada Lekhraj's death? This is also a point to be noted here. Or Dixit should have come to BK Yagya before death of DL itself also, is it not?

I believe Father Shiv continued to work through Jagadamba Gita Mata after 1942(when Prajapita-Ram left - not 1947), and thus continued to be Brahma Baba's guru... and finally Adi Radhe-Sita would have been in charge, until 1947, when Brahma finally emerged from the navel of Vishnu at this time... i.e. Father Shiv entered him in 1947, and began playing the part of moon of knowledge mother, for the next 22 years or so. This was the time of creating the Brahmin family, or Brahmin religion, through narrating the ganges of knowledge. All Brahmins take direct birth through the mother not the Father... the true Father played his part of placing the seed of knowledge in the mother(Jagadamaba Gita Mata) at the beginning; and his part was not necessary again, until after 1969, when Brahma Baba Krishna left his body; at which time, the narrating of basic knowledge had been completed through the mother... i.e. the foundation had been laid. Then it is time to reveal the deeper aspects of Gyan, and create deities in this very birth, through this process. The part of Father resumes from 1969 when Virendra Dev Dixit ji comes in contact with the Brahma Kumaris once again, through his lokik studies, and continues until the end. It is through Prajapita Brahma aka Shankar, that we receive understanding of Gyan, the inheritance, and liberation in life... the parts of Father, teacher and Satguru.

"They stayed (with Dada Lekhraj) for 10 years... she used to enter trance. They used to teach Mama(Om Radhe) and Baba(Dada Lekhraj) the drill (of meditation). Baba used to enter into them and give directions... they commanded so much respect. They are not present today. There wasn’t so much knowledge at that time." [Mu 25.07.67]

"This Dada was not a Brahmin before (he had his visions explained to him by Gita Mata Jagadamba). Actually there was an elder (or more knowledgeable) Brahmin (through whom Dada Lekhhraj's visions were clarified - Prajapita-Ram). But he had left (by 1941/2)." [Mu 10.07.87, 08.07.92]

"Very nice children (Prajapita-Ram1 & Sita-Adi Radhe2), who used to play very nice roles for 5(1)-10(2) years (at the beginning of the Yagya), get defeated (by Maya, due to the lack of knowledge available at this time). This is a Warfield. One should not leave Baba’s remembrance." [Mu 08.07.78]

"Those who come first (at the beginning of the Confluence Age, in their 83rd births)... only (they) remain till the end (in practical bodily form, in their 84th births). It’s a wonderful drama, isn’t it?" [Mu 06.03.74]

“The children who left their mortal coils(i.e. their 83rd body) will surely return to the Brahmin clan (in their 84th body).” [Mu 17.02.74]

“Those who expired at the early stage of Yagya, again might have grown up to 20 years(Adi Radhe-Sita2, re-born in 1947 - returned to the Yagya in 1965) or 25 years(Prajapita-Ram1 - re-born in 1942, in Ahmedgunj, Farrukhabad, UP - returned to the Yagya in 1969). They might have taken their admission to the knowledge.” [Mu 17.02.75 - originally narrated in 1966/7]

Claiming position of a person after his death (claiming position of DL/Prajapita after death of DL looks very silly, is it not?

Who is making claims after his death?.. the part of Brahma Baba Krishna is laid out in the Sakar Murlis... the PBKs are just pointing out these matters, which they have learnt through them being highlighted through the part of Father. This is what the part of Father is all about... pointing out the facts which no-one recognised before 1969.

A point here is- during beggary part, many children (more than 80%) left BKWSU. But, Shiv stayed with right people. So- when Sevakram had left Yagya in 1942 (or 1947, I am not sure), shiv should have stayed with Sevakram himself , is it not (if Sevakram was the right person for the position of Prajapita).

The part of mother wasn't completed until 1969... why would Father Shiv leave before then?... However, He did start to express the importance of the role of Prajapita from 1965, after Mama's death, knowing full well that this part would be resumed, from 1969, and become revealed in 1976; which was also highlighed in the Murli points about destruction, and the emergence of Lakshmi-Narayan, which were narrated from 1966. It's all there to be examined and understood.

"Ours is a practical thing, is not it? Within 9 years(1976), the Golden Age, the Kingdom of 100% prosperity and peace, will be established (in subtle intellectual form) in Bharat(Prajapita-Ram) without fail (this is the shooting/rehearsal that takes place in 1976, when Bharat-Ram has the complete realisation, that he will become World Emperor Narayan, at the end of the Confluence Age)." [Mu 30.01.67]