Who is/are Maatpita (Mother and Father)?

[mbbhat]

My views are as follows.

1)Shiv is incorporeal Maatpita. Because he is the one who gives us everything and maintains all the relations- sarvasambandhi mentally.

2) When Shiv plays role= gives knowledge or guides others through the body, Shiv is incorporeal Father and Brahma becomes/is the corporeal mother.

3)In Yagya, the two souls gave paalan to all other children. They were practical models to others. Brahma is male and hence got just title of Father when considered to be in practical form. So title of mother went to Mama.

So- Brahma is Father and Mama is mother

From 2) and 3) Brahma is both mother and Father (Maatpita) and even Shiv is also both Father and mother[from 1) ].

When we say maatpitaa is/are combined, it has three meanings.

a)Just Shiv as both Father and mother

b)Shiv in body of Brahma = so shiv is Father and Brahma is mother.

c)Just Brahma is both Father and mother.

But Baba has said- both the parts/titles (mother and Father) are not give to Brahma. Hence the first daughter is given that title= Mother.
----
So when we consider Brahma as Father and Mama as mother, it is not combined.

[Sach_Khand]

My views are as follows.

1)Shiv is incorporeal Maatpita. Because he is the one who gives us everything and maintains all the relations- sarvasambandhi mentally.
...
When we say maatpitaa is/are combined, it has three meanings.

a)Just Shiv as both Father and mother

So when we consider Brahma as Father and Mama as mother, it is not combined.

The above conclusion is wrong. It is said many times that ShvBaba is GodFAther only. And it has been questioned so who is to be called as MaatPita. And has been answered that Prajapita Brahma is MaatPita.
Please do not give totally wrong views. But if you insist then it is upto you.

MaatPita are always combined. If they are not combined then they are not MaatPita. That relation is not correct.
:neutral:
Sanjeev.

[mbbhat]

The above conclusion is wrong. It is said many times that ShvBaba is GodFAther only.

I agree. But it is also said- shiv is also Maatpita. See the following points.

SM 5-11-73(3):- Baap samjhate hain Bhagvan to ek hain. Unko hi Matpita kahte hain. = Bhagavaan is one. That only , it is said as matpita.

So do you mean Just Prajapita alone can be called as Bhagavaan? Shiv is not Bhagavaan?

SM 4-4-78(10):- Swarg ka malik bananevaala hai PAARLOWKIK MAATPITAA. Narak ka malik bananevaalaa hai Ravan. -82-
= Paarlowkik Maatpita makes you owner of heaven.

Do you think Prajapita Brahma belongs to parlok? Or any other meaning?

And it has been questioned so who is to be called as MaatPita. And has been answered that Prajapita Brahma is MaatPita.

I agree and have mentioned the same in the beginning.

Please do not give totally wrong views.

Please explain how they are totally wrong.

But if you insist then it is upto you.

I have never insisted. But thank you if it happens in future

MaatPita are always combined. If they are not combined then they are not MaatPita.

I have not said not combined- I have given three meanings.

Of course- Ialso have added the last one.

[mbbhat]

Dear Sachkhand soul,

1)See the two maatpitas.

SM 11-4-78(1):- Geet- door ke musaafir humko bhi saath le chal. ..... Om Shanti. Yah record to sab sun rahe hain. Door ke musaafir humko bhi saath le chal. YAH TUM BACHCHE HEE JAANTE HO AUR VAASTAV MAY 24 GHANTAA YAH Yaad ZAROOR RAHNI CHAHIYE. BACHCHE MAATPITAA KO HUMESHAA 24 GHANTE HEE Yaad KARTE HAIN. Achchaa. Hai hee unkey bachche. Maatpita se varsaa lenge. Tum JAANTE HO HUMAARAA MAATPITAA VAH HAI DOOR KE RAHNEVAALAA. YAH MAATPITAA NAZDEEK KE RAHNEVAALE HAIN. Sab manushy us door ke musaafir ko Yaad karte hain. -88- [matpita, wot, mistakes]

= ... You know our maatpita is that one who resides far. This maatpita resides near. All remember the one who is far.

So I think shiv is the maatpita of far and Prajapita Brahma is that of near.

2)Shiv alone is also maatpita!

SM 22-10-82(2):- Om namaha Shivaaye kaa geeth bahut achchaa hai. SHIV HAI MAATPITAA. BVS ko Maatpita nahin kahenge. Shiv ko hee Father kahenge. Adam, Eve Brahma Saraswati to yahaan hee huye hain. ....-22
= ...... Shiv is maatpita…..

3)SM 19-10-72(1):- Yah baatein koyi manushy ki buddhi may nahin aati. Aise nahin ki vah LN ke mandir may jaavenge to unki buddhi may koyi yah aavegaa ki yah koun hain? Nahin. Vah to Bhaktimarg hai. Sirf jaakar haath jod dete hain aur kahte rahte hain TWAMEVA MAATAASHCHA PITA…. Shiv to sabhi se badaa thah_raa na. ShivBaba HAI TO AUR KOYI KO MAATPITA KAH NA SAKE. Baba bhaagvaan bhi hai.

= Shiv is greater than all, is it not? When there is Shiv(= we speak about shiv), no one else can be called as maatpita.

This implies shiv is number one (first) maatpita.

[mbbhat]

4) Brahma as Father and Mama as mother-

SM 11-4-78(3):- Ab jitnaa purushaarth karenge utnaa oonch pad paavenge. Jaise bachche jaante hain ki MAATPITA JAGADAMBA JAGATPITA aakar pahley2 Maharaja Maharani bante hain. Abhi to ve bhi padh rahe hain. Padhaanevaalaa ShivBaba hai. Yaad bhi unko karte hain.

= Maatpita Jagatpita and Jagadamba become first Maharaj and Maharani. ...

so it implies there are two personalities- maatpita who are students = padh rahe hain.

so this implies brahma is Father and Mama is mother.

SM 16-9-82(2, 3):- Baap kahte hain main tumhaaraa Baap, teacher, Sadguru hun. ISLIYE UNKO MAATPITAA KAHTE HAIN. TUM MAATPITA JO GAATE HAIN VAH BRAHMA Saraswati KO NAHIN KAH SAKTEY. BRAHMA THODE HI Vaikunth KAA RACHAITAA HAI. BAAP TO BAAP HAI. AUR YAH(BRAHMA) TUMHAARI Mama HAI. KALASH PAHLEY INKO (BRAHMA KO) MILTAA HAI. PARANTU Saraswati KI MAHIMAA BADHAANE LIYE UNKO AAGE RAKHAA HAI. Saraswati kaa naam godess of knowledge mash_hur hai. Vidyut mandalivaale bhi Saraswati kaa lakab rakh lete hain. Vah to jhoothi knowledge dete hain. -22-, 23 [Matpita, number one, hoshiyaar], WOT]

= Of course, Brahma Saraswati cannot be called as (real) maatpita. ... But to increase praise of Saraswati, she is placed ahead. ..

SM 8-10-77(1):- Parmatma bhi padhaane ke liye jivatma bante hain aur inmey pravesh kar inko aur Brahma mukhvamshavali ko padhate hain. SWAYAM BRAHMA KO MUKHVAMSHAVALI NAHIN KAHENGE. Braahman Brahma mukhvamshavali hai. Brahma Shiv ki mukhvamshavali nahin hai. ShivBaba to aakar inmey pravesh karte hain, apnaa banaate hain. Yah bhi creation hai. Pahley Brahma ko rachte hain. Vishnu ko nahin rachte. Gaayaa bhi jata hai Brahma Vishnu aur Shankar. Vishnu Shankar aur Brahma nahin gaayaa jaataa hai. Pahley Brahma ko rachte hain. Brahma ka occupation hee alag hai. Harek baath samajhney ki hai. INKO TWAMEVA MAATAA PITAA TWAMEVA KAHA JATA HAI. To vah niraakaar hai na. To Sakar may maatpitaa chahiye. Tab to poochte hain Mama ko Maa hai? Kahenge haan. Brahma Mama ki bhi Maa hai. Brahma ke koyi Maa nahin. YAH Maa FEMALE NA HONEY KAARAN MAATAA ROOP MAY Mama CHAHIYE. To Brahma ki putri Saraswati hai. BRAHMA KHUD Maa HOTE HUYE BHI Saraswati KO Mama KAHTE HAIN.

= This (Brahma) is called as maatpitaa. ... since this is not female, there is need of Mama as mother. ... Even though brahma is mother, he calls Mama as mother.

This proves that Mama is also mother. And Brahma even though is mother of Mama (and all), gives that role to Mama.

[mbbhat]

SM 24-4-73(3):- Baap ke liye aise nahin kahenge ki vah janm lete hain. Yah wrong ho jata hai. Ve to avatar lete hain. Janm liyaa arthaat garbh may aayaa. Main to garbh may janm nahin leta hun. Main to avatar leta hun. Kaise aataa hun, yah koyi samajhte hi nahin. Main Paramdham se is tatw may aakar UNKO Maataa banaataa hun. Mujhe sharir to chahiye na. Aur chahiye bhi badaa sharir. Chote may to vah baath bhi kar na sake. Main aakar anubhavi rath ko lekar bahut janmon ke anth ke janm vaanaprasth ki avasthaa may aataa hun. Gita MAY BHI HAI KI MAIN INKEY 84 JANM BATAATAA HUN. Yah apne janmon ko nahin jaantaa thaa. Phir 84 janm lete2 shudr bana. Phir maine ismey pravesh kiya hai. Yah hai kalyaanakaari janm. Baap aakar inkey dwara padhate hain. To yah Maatpita ho gaye. EK KI HEE MAHIMA HAI. YAH MAATAA PITAA THAH_REY. VAASTAV MAY THAH_RI MAATAA. PARANTU YAH SERVICE PITA KE ROOP MAY KARTE HAIN. TO PHIR Mama NIMITT BANTI HAI. Tum bachche bhi unkey saath nimitt bante ho. Maataa raastaa bataatee hai. Swargvasi ban_naa hai. Tum bhi raastaa bataatee ho. Manushy marte hain to kahte hain swargvaasi huvaa. Vah koyi purusharth thode hi karte hain. Hum to swargvaasi ban_ne liye purusharth karte hain. Satyug may LN they na. Tum jaante ho unhonko swarg kaa maalik bananevaalaa koun, kyaa banaayaa, kisney banaayaa. Zaroor nahin thi jo naya banaya. Ismey koyi takleef nahin. Baba sirf ek raay dete hain. Gruhasth vyavahaar may rah is anthim janm may pavitr bano. – 149.

= ....Actually this (Brahma) is maatpita. It is praise for one only [so this of course says- Brahma alone is maatpita]. But this does service in the form of Father. So then Mama becomes nimitt (for mother role)...

[Sach_Khand]

You have given many Murli points. And there are many contradicting statements in Murlis which we all accept. Now it is upto us to decide what all this means. If you want to churn that way it is your wish. Only ShivBaba can authoritatively say what is right and what is wrong. What He has said and what the words of Dada. And while telling Murlis sometimes the present Bhaktimarg understnding is told and then later it is clarified. And if we just quote what is said about present Bhaktimarg understanding then it appears that Shiv is saying so. But actually it is told so as to clarify that point afterwards, it is just like preamble ( I mean peethike in kannada.)
:neutral:
Sanjeev.

[mbbhat]

And there are many contradicting statements in Murlis which we all accept. Now it is upto us to decide what all this means....

That is right. Since you have given wrong judgment (as mentioned below), I had to say so.

The above conclusion is wrong. It is said many times that ShvBaba is GodFAther only.

Please do not give totally wrong views.

But if you insist then it is upto you.

[Sach_Khand]

That is right. Since you have given wrong judgment (as mentioned below), I had to say so.

"The above conclusion is wrong. It is said many times that ShvBaba is GodFAther only.
Please do not give totally wrong views.
But if you insist then it is upto you."

I really think that you are wrong. But still if you are having total clarity and actually feel that you are right then possibly I am wrong.
:neutral:
Sanjeev.

[mbbhat]

I am very happy from your conclusion about me (considering me as wrong).

If your happiness is more than me, salutes to you O- great soul , the sweet child of Maatpitaa.

[Sach_Khand]

I am very happy from your conclusion about me (considering me as wrong).

I do not get happy if someone understand the knowledge wrongly.

If your happiness is more than me, salutes to you O- great soul , the sweet child of Maatpitaa.

Why should my happiness depend on you?
With you or without you, I am happy. There is no other way to remain happy. Because someone or the other will not be accepting you or your thoughts.
We all have to be happy with our destinies and our part.
:neutral:
Sanjeev.

[shivsena]

Dear bhat Bhai and sanjeev Bhai.

It is said in Vanis: "Brahma hi Ek vishesh atma hai jo mataa bhi hai toh pita bhi hai."

So the mystery in this whole spiriutal knowledge is to recognise our true spiritual mat-pita and those children who can recognise this combined mat-pita, will then be remembered as buddhi-dataa and vigna-vinashak ''ganesh'' and those who do not recognise their true mat-pita will then be remembered as ''kartike'' (who went into the world in search of his true mat-pita but could not recognise them).

shivsena.

[mbbhat]

According to my present belief, there are two types of good children of God= Shiv.

One(Ganesh) who give first preference to REMEMBRANCE and then for SERVICE (= WORLD TOUR ). The second type(kartikey) give first preference to service and the next to remembrance.

When God Shiva asked them to perform the race- who completes world tour first,

Kartikey immediately left his parents and went for the tour. But Ganesh was not ready to leave Maatpita. He just put rounds to maatpita. In the end, he was declared as winner, because circuling God will be as good as or even more than that of the world tour.

So- essence of this is- Ganesh's remembrance was always there. But Kartikey forgot (= left- as shown in scriptures) his parents (Matpita = Shiv) while busy in service.

So one who sacrifices remembrance for even spiritual service gets second place where as the other is the first place- whose buddhi was perfect.

A Murli point:- Sabsey achchi buddhi hai mujhe pavitr ban_naa hai= The best intellect is that which decides (judges) that I should become pure.

[shivsena]

According to my present belief, there are two types of good children of God= Shiv.
One(Ganesh) who give first preference to REMEMBRANCE and then for SERVICE (= WORLD TOUR ). The second type(kartikey) give first preference to service and the next to remembrance.

Before accurate rememberence comes the right pehchan of who is our mat-pita and the right pehchan will come only from study of Murlis and Vanis ....BKs think it is bindi shiv in the body of DL....PBKs think it is bindi shiv in the body of VD.....but 108 ganesh will think differently and they will consider no. 1 shiv-shakti (adi-brahma) as their true ruhani mat-pita and will remember them together(combined mat-pita)...this is what i feel.

shivsena.

[mbbhat]

When God plays his role of giving knowledge- Maatpita stands for ShivBaba in body of Brahma.

Baba everyday says in Murli- "maatpita Baapdaadaa ki yaadpyaar and good morning". = remembrance, love and good morning to sweet children from Maatpita Baapdada

So Shiv = ShivBaba = Baap = Pita (Father) and Brahma = Dada mother

But for remembrance- it can be both. Just Shiv or Shiv in Brahma. Because highest importance of Shiv will automatically make everything right. One's concentration will be on the point. So when the concentration becomes better, the other region(body) is automatically forgotten or detached.