Who is/are Maatpita (Mother and Father)?

[shivsena]

So Shiv = ShivBaba = Baap = Pita (Father) and Brahma = Dada mother

Is bindi (point of light) shiv or ShivBaba ???

Also, is brahma(Krishna) bada Bhai or mother ??....bada Bhai(Dada) can be bap-samaan but bada Bhai cannot give inheritance and blessings to younger brothers(according to Murlis)....blessings and Yaad-pyar are always given by mother-Father combined.....so my dillemma is how can bada Bhai(Krishna) be mother ....the real mother(adi-brahma ie badi Maa) must be someone else.

shivsena.

[mbbhat]

Dear Shivsena soul,

Will you explain who is aadi Brahma and what aadi is here?- Is it beginning of Confluence Age or that of Satyug?
Also will you quote Murli and Vani points that draw you to the above conclusion?

[Sach_Khand]

I am writing my recent thoughts which seems very absurd, but I think that it cannot be ruled out.

Many times questions were raised in the forum brahmakumaris.info, which are also present in this forum, regarding the word "Shiv". It is written (based on the research they have made and proofs they have in the form of old BK literature) that in the early days of the yagnya the word "Shiv" was never used and was incorporated in the BK knowledge in the later stage. And in the old literature Prajapati Brahma (Dada Lekharaj) is shown as Gita Inventor (Gita gnyaan daata).

I feel that Dada Lekharaj is God, The Father.

In Bharat, it is beleived that God is not just incorporeal but is actually coproreal also. In Murlis too there are points such as,

Murli dt. 11-6-72, page 1: All know life story of Supreme Soul, that too not of one life, there is biography of ShivBaba of how many lives, you know. (Sabhi jaanate hain paramatma ki jeevan kahani, so bhi ek janm ki nahi, ShivBaba ke kitne kitne janmoon ki biography hai, tumko maloom hai.)

Murli dt. 12.10.02 (Murli Khand pg. 316): Here all three are combined. This is not written in any scriptures ( Shastras) that, only That is The lap of Father, Teacher and Preceptor (Guru). Father has asked "Does ShivBaba has Father?" Says yes. O.K., ShivBaba has Teacher? Has Preceptor (Guru)? No. Only gets Mother - Father. This is secret calculation ( or rule or method).

I think that Mama Saraswati is Bharat and also Dada or elder brother (based on the capability of knowledge).
The word "Shiva" was introduced by Mama (as she too used to speak through the body of Dada Lekharaj). And all the knowledge that we read in present Murlis is the picture of the later days that were to come (i.e. the present days). And Murlis actually apply to the present days.
And presently Dada Lekharaj has become Nirakar and plays ShivBaba. And Mama is Dada or big brother. And the Chariot which is The Chariot of both is Prajapita. And through that Chariot Dada Lekharaj plays the part of ShivBaba and Mama Saraswati plays the part of Prajapita. And this charitot is the Chariot of Mama Saraswati (male Chariot) which is given to ShivBaba to play His part. And this is the combined form Maat - Pita and Bap - Dada.

In Murlis we hear about discussion going on between two which is told to the children sitting in front of them. It is the discussion between Dada Lekharaj and Mama Saraswati. And since Mama Saraswati had the knowledge of Herself as The God, it took so long to convince the Mama soul about it's part and The Part of God, The Father (Dada Lekharaj). Concept of nirakar incorporeal Shiv was introduced by Mama Saraswati, because that soul could not accept so easily that God, The Father can also be human, but still God, The Father. And whole Murli is just the Teacher (God, The Father) trying to convince the student (Mama Saraswati) about His role and the role which is to be played in future days (i.e., present days).

Regarding subtle Brahma, Vishnu and Shankar, they are three different souls who does not take physcial birth since 1936 and are presently in subtle form.

:neutral:
Sanjeev.

[mbbhat]

Is bindi (point of light) Shiv or ShivBaba ???

Shiv = ShivBaba = Bindi = God.

But Shiv is realized as Baba(Father) when children realize him = feel that they are eligible for his property heaven = when when people feel that we can become deities.

1)Also, is Brahma(Krishna) bada Bhai or mother ??...

Krishna is not equal to Brahma. Brahma will be Krishna in next birth. Krishna is neither badaa bhaayi nor mother, Brahma is both badaa bhaayi and also mother. Because the question of bhaaayi comes only when God's presence is there, so it is in Confluence Age. Brahma is the first child, hence he is badaa bhaayi for the rest. Through Brahma only God creates others, hence he is even big mother.

SM 5-1-78(1):- Geet:- Tumhi ho maataa, ....Om Shanti. Jisko maatpita kahte ho to zaroor pharmaan pita hi karenge. Yah to maatpita combined hai. Yah baat manushyon ke liye samajhna badaa difficult hai. Aur yahi mukhy baath hai samajhne ki. Nirakar Parampita Paramatma jisko pita kaha jata hai usko maataa bhi kahte. Yah wonderful baat hai. Parampita paramatma manushy srushti rachenge to maataa ZAROOR CHAAHIYE. Yah baat badi guhy hai…. Parampita Paramatma rachta to ek hai jiske hum bachche hain. Vah bhi nirakar hai. Hum aatmayein bhi nirakar hain. Parantu Nirakar phir srushti kaise rachte hain? Maata bigar to srushti rachi nahin jaa sakti. Wonder hai srushti rachne ka. Ek to paramatma rachaita hai. Purani duniya may aakar nayi duniya rachte hain. Yah badi guhy baath hai. Jo nirakar ko hum maatpita kahte hain. Baap khud samjhate hain main bachchon ko kaise adopt karta hun. Pet se bachche nikalne ki baath hi nahin. Itnay dher bachche pet se kaise niklenge? To kahte hain main is sharir ko dharan kar phir unke mukh dwara bachche adopt karta hun. Yah(Brahma) pita bhi hai manushy srushti rachnevaalaa aur maataa bhi hai jiske mukh se bachche adopt karta hun. Is reeti bachchon ko adopt karna yah Baap ka kaam hai. Sanyasi to kar na sake. Unhon ke hain jigyaasi followers. Yahaan to huyi rachna ki baat. To Baba inmay pravesh karte hain. Yah hai mukhvamshavali jo kahte hain tum maatpita… To Mata yah siddh huyi. Baap ismay pravesh ho rachte hain. TO YAH BOODHAA PRAJAPITA BHI THAHRAA PHIR MAATAA BHI BOODHI THAHRI. BOODHE HI CHAHIYE NA. Ab bachchon ko maatpita ko Yaad karna pade. Inki to property hai nahin. Tum bante ho vaaris. Isliye inko BapDada kahte ho. Tumko Prajapita Brahma se property nahin leni hai. Yah Dada bhi unsay lete hain. Inko Dada bhi to maataa bhi kaha jata hai. Nahin to maatpita kaise siddh ho? Maatpita bachche kaise ho yah badi guhy samajhne our simiran karne ki baat hai. Baba aap pita ho Is maataa dwara humne janm liya hai. Barobar varsa bhi Yaad aataa hai. Yaad us baap ko karna hai. Gyan se tum samajhte bhi ho ki kaise Baap patit duniya may aate hain. Kahte hai MAIN JISMAY PRAVESH KARTA HUN YAH HUMARA BACHCHA BHI HAI, TUMAARAA BAAP BHI HAI, AUR PHIR MAATAA BHI HAI. TUM HO GAYE BACHCHE. To baap ko Yaad karne se varsa milta hai. MAATAA KO Yaad KARNE SE VARSA NAHIN MILEGA. NIRANTAR US BAAP KO Yaad KARNA HAI. Baaki is sharir ko bhoolna hai.

=... This Brahma is Father who creates human creation and also mother through whom (I) adopt. ... You are not going to receive property from Prajapita. .. This is also called as Dada as well as mother. Else how can mattpita be proved? ... The one in whom I enter is my child, your Father as well as mother. You are children. ... Property cannot be received by remembering mother.

I think there is another Murli point that says- This Brahma is your badaa bhaaayi as well as your Father and mother. But I am not sure.

But the above point says child of Shiv is both Father and mother of others. Now when all are children, and Baba is saying bhaayi specially for one, he should be badaa bhaayi also.hence badaa bhaayi = corporeal Father and also corporeal mother.

2)bada Bhai(Dada) can be bap-samaan but bada Bhai cannot give inheritance and blessings to younger Brothers(according to Murlis)....blessings and Yaad-pyar are always given by mother-Father combined.....so my dillemma is how can bada Bhai(Krishna) be mother ....the real mother(adi-Brahma ie badi Maa) must be someone els

[/quote]

Even mother cannot give property and also Father(Prajapita Brahma) also cannot give property(mentioned in above Murli point). Only incorporeal Father can give unlimited= highest property. Where is it said mother gives property?

In fact, Shiv and Brahma are always combined. ShivBaba says- consider that always Shiv is speaking (even if Brahma speaks). So- in Sakar period, irresepective of whether Shiv was in Brahma baba, the srimath was to consider Shiv in Brahma. So both Shiv (Father) and Brahma (mother) were like combined.

Even after 1969, it is believed BapDada are combined. So one body and two souls let it be ion Sakar Brahma or Avyakt Brahma.


SM 11-7-81(3):- Atma aakar Paramatma se milti hai. Isko kumbh kahte hain. Atma aur Paramatma ka mela bhi tum dekhte ho. Tum aapas may miltey ho, seminar karte ho, isko kumbh nahin kahenge. Sagar to apni jagah par baithe hain. Is tan may hai na. JAHAAN INKA TAN HAI VAHAN Gyan KA SAGAR HAI. Baaki tum aapas may gyaan gangayein miltee ho.

=.... The Father is seated at his place. He is sitting in this body, is it not? Where is this body is, there is the Ocean of Knowledge….

See how great respect God gives to body(personality) of Brahma.

[shivsena]

Even mother cannot give property and also Father(Prajapita Brahma) also cannot give property(mentioned in above Murli point). Only incorporeal Father can give unlimited= highest property. Where is it said mother gives property?

In Murlis it is said that "ShivBaba gives varsa only through brahma"( not through Vishnu or Shankar)....so I just wish to know that who is this brahma through whom ShivBaba(bindi) gives varsa and if according to BKs this brahma is DL, then how will children receive varsa from someone who has left the body in 1969.....i cannot understand many Murli statements about brahma and hence i am again and again raising the query who is this brahma?????....so please answer to the point and if you quote Murli points please elaborate them clearly.

shivsena.

[mbbhat]

I just wish to know that who is this Brahma through whom ShivBaba(bindi) gives varsa and if according to BKs this Brahma is DL, then how will children receive varsa from someone who has left the body in 1969.....i cannot understand many Murli statements about Brahma and hence i am again and again raising the query who is this Brahma?????....so please answer to the point and if you quote Murli points please elaborate them clearly.

How the property is recieved? It is by knowledge and faith.

It is not mainly by physical presence.

It is also said- nischaybuddhi vijayanti. = victory through faith.

And property is not given in hand. Can property be given by 21 births by one body? So is it not foolishness to expect a Sakar personality to be in front of us to give property for 21 births?

And what is the greatest property? It is ateendriy sukh = supersensous joy. So how can organs give ateendriy sukh?

[mbbhat]

I just wish to know that who is this Brahma through whom ShivBaba(bindi) gives varsa and if according to BKs this Brahma is DL, then how will children receive varsa from someone who has left the body in 1969.....i cannot understand many Murli statements about Brahma and hence i am again and again raising the query who is this Brahma?????....so please answer to the point and if you quote Murli points please elaborate them clearly.

How the property is recieved? It is by knowledge and faith.

It is not mainly by physical presence.

It is also said- nischaybuddhi vijayanti. = victory through faith.

And property is not given in hand. Can property be given by 21 births by one body? So is it not foolishness to expect a Sakar personality to be in front of us to give property for 21 births?

And what is the greatest property? It is ateendriy sukh = supersensous joy. So how can organs give ateendriy sukh?

When even in lowkik world- Father can will his property to his child, even before the child takes birth, why physical presence is necessary to give property?

There should be right relation. And that is- pavitr bhav, yogi bhav = Be pure and be yogi.

According to the above slogan, one receives property

[shivsena]

It is also said- nischaybuddhi vijayanti. = victory through faith.

It is good that you have raised this point about nischay-buddhi.

I would like to know your views and also views of other BKs-PBKs, who must have many times heard this Murli mahavakya: " nischay-buddhi vijayanti and anischay-buddhi vinashanti"....nischay on whom???? ....and anischay on whom??????....is it on nirakar bindi Shiva as ShivBaba !!!!... or is it on the Chariot of Shiva !!!! (the issue on which BKs and PBKs are fighting.)....and who is going to be victorious and who is going to be destroyed ????

Can all BKs and PBKs please share their views on this important Murli point.
shivsena.

[mbbhat]

Shivsena wrote:- please elaborate them clearly.

Hence I wrote so much.

SM 24-4-73(3):- Baap ke liye aise nahin kahenge ki vah janm lete hain. Yah wrong ho jata hai. Ve to avatar lete hain. Janm liyaa arthaat garbh may aayaa. Main to garbh may janm nahin leta hun. Main to avatar leta hun. Kaise aataa hun, yah koyi samajhte hi nahin. Main Paramdham se is tatw may aakar UNKO Maataa banaataa hun. Mujhe sharir to chahiye na. Aur chahiye bhi badaa sharir. Chote may to vah baath bhi kar na sake. Main aakar anubhavi rath ko lekar bahut janmon ke anth ke janm vaanaprasth ki avasthaa may aataa hun. Gita MAY BHI HAI KI MAIN INKEY 84 JANM BATAATAA HUN. Yah apne janmon ko nahin jaantaa thaa. Phir 84 janm lete2 shudr bana. Phir maine ismey pravesh kiya hai. Yah hai kalyaanakaari janm. Baap aakar inkey dwara padhate hain. To yah Maatpita ho gaye. EK KI HEE MAHIMA HAI. YAH MAATAA PITAA THAH_REY. VAASTAV MAY THAH_RI MAATAA. PARANTU YAH SERVICE PITA KE ROOP MAY KARTE HAIN. TO PHIR Mama NIMITT BANTI HAI. Tum bachche bhi unkey saath nimitt bante ho. Maataa raastaa bataatee hai. Swargvasi ban_naa hai. Tum bhi raastaa bataatee ho. Manushy marte hain to kahte hain swargvaasi huvaa. Vah koyi purusharth thode hi karte hain. Hum to swargvaasi ban_ne liye purusharth karte hain. Satyug may LN they na. Tum jaante ho unhonko swarg kaa maalik bananevaalaa koun, kyaa banaayaa, kisney banaayaa. Zaroor nahin thi jo naya banaya. Ismey koyi takleef nahin. Baba sirf ek raay dete hain. Gruhasth vyavahaar may rah is anthim janm may pavitr bano. – 149.

= ... This is praise for one. This is maatpita. Actually this is (just) mother. But this does service in form of Father. So then Mama becomes nimitt for role of mother.

The praise is just for one. Why? Because just one Chariot is enough to receive property. There is no need of Mama to receive property. Murli comes just from one(Brahma)

[shivsena]

This is to inform brother mbbhat that i have deleted your 2 irrelevant posts in this thread....and if you still persist in your irrelevant talk, then you will be banned from the forum.....so if you wish to remain on this forum then please be relevant, short and to the point.....when i asked you to elaborate, it does not mean that you have to write irrelevantly ....elaborate explanations can also be given in one simple paragraph.

shivsena.

[mbbhat]

Dear Shivsena soul,

I am not unhapppy by your decision. All the best in your work. But according to my judgment it was not irrelevant. Even if you had not asked to elaborate, my explanation would have been so.

Let all of your wishes be fulfilled. Anyhow, we will meet in heaven at least for some births. If your decision is right, I am happy because I have to respect truth. If it is wrong, still I am happy, because in that case, I am proved to be right.

[Sach_Khand]

In Murlis it is said that "ShivBaba gives varsa only through Brahma"( not through Vishnu or Shankar)....so I just wish to know that who is this Brahma through whom ShivBaba(bindi) gives varsa
....i cannot understand many Murli statements about Brahma and hence i am again and again raising the query who is this Brahma?????....so please answer to the point and if you quote Murli points please elaborate them clearly.

shivsena.

In my opinion this ShivBaba is not bindi but Dada Lekharaj's soul in the incorporeal form. And the Brahma through whom varsa is to be given is Mama Saraswati. But is in male body in the next birth. And plays the role of Prajapita Brahma.

Then who is Virendra Dev Dixit. As I have already written, he plays the part of Ravan. And he is devotee of Shankar and not ShivBaba. He has mistaken Shankar for ShivBaba as he has no actual respect for Dada Lekharaj. It is his part. When he understands the truth, he will change.

:neutral:
Sanjeev.

[shivsena]

When he understands the truth, he will change.
Sanjeev.

Baba Dixit understands his part very well and he is playing his role perfectly as per drama.

The Sakar Murlis were narrated by mamaa Saraswati in a code manner and there were mahavakyas narrated for each category of souls(9,00,000, 16000, 108)....and Baba dixit has been given the part to seperate out the groups by inventing advance knowledge(killing two birds with one stone)....those who stick to basic knowledge as truth will be then categorised as 9,00,000.....those who stick to advance knowledge as truth will be 16,000 and those who challenge both these groups will then be in 108, who will overcome these two obstacles in this behad ka drama and will be titled as vigna-vinashak buddhi-dataa ganesh(parvati-putra)....this is what i believe.

shivsena.

[button slammer]

shivsena.

The Sakar Murlis were narrated by mamaa Saraswati in a code manner

Its been mentioned in Murli that whoever ShivBaba enters and narrates is named as Brahma. How is it that Saraswati has no title of Brahma?

[shivsena]

shivsena.
Its been mentioned in Murli that whoever ShivBaba enters and narrates is named as Brahma. How is it that Saraswati has no title of Brahma?

Dear brother.
Good question.
Actually the whole Gyan is based on "who is brahma" ?????

It has never been said in Bhakti that shiv enters somebody to name him brahma.
In Bhakti-marg shiv always means brahma-Vishnu-Shankar and their consorts(Saraswati-Lakshmi-parvati) combined....in Bhakti shiv and shakti always remain combined and this concept becomes ''pravritti-marg ka Gyan''....but in bk-pbk knowledge this concept is not accepted and they have seperated incorporeal shiv from shakti....and this becomes ''nivritti-marg ka Gyan'' and that is why it has been said in Murlis : "nivritti marg wale(ie BKs-PBKs) pravritti marg ka Gyan sunaa naa sake"....so before we know who is real brahma we must first answer the question "which is pravritti-marg and which is nivritti-marg"...unless we know this, the whole Gyan is just getting more and more complicated each day.... and i feel that truth has to be simple and not complicated....that is why i am co-relating Bhakti-marg with so called Gyan-marg of bk-PBKs...but i find that both do not tally and compliment each other.

Waiting for your views on the above query.
shivsena.