Flaws in PBK Philosophy

[mbbhat]

# Flaw No. 545) Do PBKs know how to follow Murli?

There is benefit in following the Murli.

396) A very good point is posted here, which is highly relevant, and worth reproducing -
viewtopic.php?f=37&t=803&p=52966#p52966

Avyakt Vani 11-4-82 says: "एक बल एक भरोसा अर्थात सदा निश्चय हो की जो साकार की मुरली है, वो ही मुरली है ...
जो मधुबन से श्रीमत मिलती है वो ही श्रीमत है,....मधुबन से जो पढाई का पाठ पढाया जाता है, वो ही पढाई है, दूसरी कोई पढाई नहीं है ....मधुबन से जो मुरली आती है उस पर ध्यान दो, नहीं तो और रास्ते पर चले जायेंगे. मधुबन में ही बाबा की मुरली चलती है, मधुबन में ही बाबा आते हैं, इसलिए हर एक बच्चा यह सावधानी रखे, नहीं तो माया धोका दे देगी ."

= " Have one strength, one belief(faith) that whatever Murlis were spoken through Sakar (Dada Lekhraj), are the only Murlis....Whatever Shrimat(directions) one gets from Madhuban (Mount Abu) is the only Shrimat....Whatever study is being taught from Madhuban, that is the only study, there is no other study (like so called advanced knowledge through AIVV or PBK clarification of Murlis, etc, etc)... Pay attention to the Murli which comes from Madhuban, otherwise you will go to another path ... Baba's Murli is recited only in Madhuban (Mt Abu), Baba comes only in Madhuban (not in any another dehdhari in Kampil and all the gali2s where Virendra Dev Dixit keeps on touring)....That is why every child has to be aware (of the above facts), or else Maya(Virendra Dev Dixit and other splinter groups) will deceive you."


= RESPONSE =

For some Ex PBKs & BKs, who may STILL be NAIVE about same, please be AWARE that the above Version has ALREADY been ADEQUATELY MISAPPROPRIATED by -Virendra Dev Dixit, and gullibly ACCEPTED by the BLIND PBKs.

When it is mentioned that, 'जो साकार की मुरली है, वो ही मुरली है', or 'the ONLY Murli is the Murli of Sakar', -Virendra Dev Dixit has clarified, that 'Sakar' refers to him, and ONLY that which comes out of his mouth, is the REAL Murli, with FULL & COMPLETE 'unlimited clarifications' from 'ShivBaba'.
As for, 'जो मधुबन से श्रीमत मिलती है वो ही श्रीमत है', or 'the ONLY Shrimat, is the Shrimat from Madhuban'; and
'मधुबन में ही बाबा की मुरली चलती है, मधुबन में ही बाबा आते हैं', or 'Baba's Murli is ONLY spoken in Madhuban, Baba ONLY comes in Madhuban', -Virendra Dev Dixit has very CRAFTILY clarified that he is LIVING Madhuban or Madhusudhan - therefore, REAL Shrimat can ONLY come through his mouth, through his intellect (from Madhusudhan or Living Madhuban); ShivBaba speaks REAL Murli ONLY through him (Madhusudan or Living Madhuban), and ONLY comes in him (Madhusudan or Living Madhuban) to CLARIFY the Versions spoken through Brahma Baba - etc., etc., etc.

---------

397) But, even the attempt to misinterpret the words - Sakar and MADHUBAN just fails.
---Because (even by twisting), at the most Mr. Dixit can only claim he is just one of the SAKARs.
---He cannot deny B Baba(Sakar Murlis) as Sakar. So- he will have to say- there are TWO SAKARs.
---But, Baba has not mentioned two SAKARs here. Baba has said just one Sakar- which clearly refers to Brahma Baba, is it not?


---398) If now Mr. Dixit claims real Sakar to be himself only, and B baba is just title holder Sakar, it then implies PBKs do not know even the meaning of Sakar!
Also- if they like to disregard B Baba as Sakar, PBKs lose right on the Sakar Murlis from BKWSU. They should have their own independent Murlis.

So- as usual- PBK misinterpretation would just lead to their intellectual suicide.

[mbbhat]

# Flaw No. 546) PBKs lose right to use the word - "Avyakt" Vanis:-

399) PBKs do not have any right to use the word- Avyakt.
Because in PBK view- Avyakt/subtle Brahma Baba enters in both the bodies- Mr. Dixit, as well as Dadi Gulzar - (as well as Kamala Devi too)!

400) Now- If/since PBKs believe words coming through Dadi Gulzar are "Avyakt" Vanis, then words coming through Mr. Dixit also should also be Avyakt, at least to some extent, is it not? - since Avyakt Brahma is present in Dixit and they firmly believe even B Baba interferes in between. [They also believe Avyakt Brahma controls and misuses even Mr. Dixit].

401) Actually, BY DEFAULT itself PBKs have failed here.

---Because if PBKs believe words or versions through Dadi Gulzar (that of a SUBTLE human soul) are "Avyakt" ones, then versions through Dixit and Sakar Dada Lekhraj (that of INCORPOREAL/God) should have superior title, is it not?

---So- all these clearly imply - the reference for the title Sakar and Avyakt are B baba, can be neither Gulzar Dadi, nor Dixit, which automatically implies- the FIXED Chariot is still B Baba. That is why the names of the Murlis/Vanis are based on the stage of Brahma baba.

----If Mr. Dixit is superior, then versions through him should have been called as something like "NIRAAKAAR/INCORPOREAL" Murlis/Vanis, is it not?

So- till 1969, the Murlis had been called as Sakar ones, after 1969, are Avyakt ones. Now, Mr. Dixit is caught in his own trap, since he cannot give any proper title for his Murlis/clarifications.
---If he gives title Sakar, then it will be inferior.
---Mr. Dixit cannot give title for his clarification classes as "NIRAAKAAR/INCORPOREAL Murlis" (even if they wish just to argue), since PBKs believe Mr. Dixit is being CONTROLLED and even misused by Avyakt Brahma, so- obviously, he cannot be fit for the title.
----------------
So- kindly note that title of the Murlis/Vanis are based on a human soul(Chariot) which has CHANGED ITS STATE (FROM Sakar TO Avyakt), not on God, because state of God never changes.
So- to discriminate, the human soul(Chariot) is taken as reference- as well as, it is combined part of God and Chariot.

Another example is- title "Brahma Bhojan" is used, not "Shiv Bhojan". But, "Shiv Bhola Bhandar" is used.

[sita]

395) Well said.

We don't think we are cleverer than God. For us God is in corporeal and we follow that. But even if you think we are misguided by a human false guru, should you object to that?

What benefit has the CHIEF CONSORT of the ‘MAHA-MURKH’ ‘mukrar-rath’ of Ravan - KDD, MASQUERADING as ‘Jagadamba’ of the BLIND PBKs, DERIVED from the Murli? Are her PERVERTED actions of indulgence in EXTENSIVE physical sexual copulation with -Virendra Dev Dixit, over a PROLONGED period of TIME - and thereafter, continuing to indulge in the vice of Lust, in the outer World of PROSTITUTION & WHOREDOM, in accordance with God's directions in the Murli?
View link below for relevant directions of God in the Murli, in this regard -

Following the Murli, we have to consider ourselves as souls and remember the Father, this is the main point of the knowledge. I cannot claim to know how much someone is in soul conscious stage and how much one remembers, so I cannot also accept what someone else says about someone else. What I know is that our knowledge is a matter of practice.

In the Murli quote provided it is said that even worldly people don't indulge in vice during sacrificial fire. Baba has praised the sanyasis for their help for Bharat with their purity, but he also says that they develop arrogance based on their purity and they don't take this knowledge easily. If someone likes to prove himself as very high, because he has followed purity for some time, this is not a big achievement for me. Even the sanaysis do that. And If someone is moralizing due to the fact that he has followed purity for some time it looks like arrogance.

Baba comes for the family people and teaches the purity of the household. Purity is first matter of the soul, the mind. We will be said to be pure when there comes no mischievousness through any organ of the body. To follow purity out of fear is equal to failure. To try and maintain purity when man and woman not only stay together, but even if they are in close contact, this is hard, because one has to control ones own mind and organs. Even if one fails and becomes a greatly sinful soul, still there is a way to absolve his sins and that is through remembrance. The practice of remembrance should be so firm that it comes naturally in any situation like the ever-pure one. For the ever-pure one there cannot be any situation through the body that will make him become body-conscious, because he never has body-consciousness. But for us there are situations that make us body-conscious a lot. When one indulges in vice the knowledge vanishes from his intellect and his intellect becomes locked. To maintain a high stage of the mind, like that of a lotus flower, has to also be possible for people, since Baba teaches that. Even In the Murli Baba has said about souls like Ajamil who go into vice again and again, and Baba uplifts even them, he does not develop hatred with the impure ones. It may not be through the organs, but we go into vice again and again with our mind. For me it is difficult to accept moralizing about purity, when Baba, who is the ever pure one, is so egoless.

For me it is wrong to have false ego due to purity and see others as low. I have definitely changed my perception and don't see family people as low. It is a matter of spiritual effort. Anyway, I don't consider it proper to discuss the private life of people, but as long as the ideology is concerned, I am firm on the belief that the real purity that is showed in the temple of Shiva, in the form of Shivling, is a combination of the male and the female organ, and despite that the mind is calm.

For some Ex PBKs & BKs, who may STILL be NAIVE about same, please be AWARE that the above Version has ALREADY been ADEQUATELY MISAPPROPRIATED by -Virendra Dev Dixit, and gullibly ACCEPTED by the BLIND PBKs.

When it is mentioned that, 'जो साकार की मुरली है, वो ही मुरली है', or 'the ONLY Murli is the Murli of Sakar', -Virendra Dev Dixit has clarified, that 'Sakar' refers to him, and ONLY that which comes out of his mouth, is the REAL Murli, with FULL & COMPLETE 'unlimited clarifications' from 'ShivBaba'.
As for, 'जो मधुबन से श्रीमत मिलती है वो ही श्रीमत है', or 'the ONLY Shrimat, is the Shrimat from Madhuban'; and
'मधुबन में ही बाबा की मुरली चलती है, मधुबन में ही बाबा आते हैं', or 'Baba's Murli is ONLY spoken in Madhuban, Baba ONLY comes in Madhuban', -Virendra Dev Dixit has very CRAFTILY clarified that he is LIVING Madhuban or Madhusudhan - therefore, REAL Shrimat can ONLY come through his mouth, through his intellect (from Madhusudhan or Living Madhuban); ShivBaba speaks REAL Murli ONLY through him (Madhusudan or Living Madhuban), and ONLY comes in him (Madhusudan or Living Madhuban) to CLARIFY the Versions spoken through Brahma Baba - etc., etc., etc.

I haven't heard that clarification that the body is Madhuban. I think you are making it up. Madhuban is where Madhusudhana comes (a name for God Krishna). It is also said that wherever we create mini Madhuban, BapDada will come.

The quote about the Murli and Shrimat is to say that the words of the Seniors are not Shrimat and the Murli is Shrimat, we have one support that is the Murli. It has been proved here on many occasions how in the BKs, the Shrimat from he Murli is overlooked. This is normal, because Murlis are not understood, so they are neglected.

Along with the clarifications of the Murlis the clear directions in the Murlis are followed strictly in the Advanced knowledge. This is Shrimat for us.

Why PBKs never use the word Avyakt Vanis or Murlis - if they believe Avyakt B Baba enters Mr. Dixit as well as Kamala Devi too?

Because when Braham Baba comes in Dadi Gulzar you can see how he overpowers the soul and the body, and it is only him that speaks, the soul of Dadi Gulzar becomes unconscious. Whilst if the soul of Brahma Baba enters into some child for service (Because it is said that Mama and Baba enter children to do service) then if this child in whom he enters has incorporeal stage, due to the color of the company, the soul of Brahma Baba will also develop incorporeal stage.

[mbbhat]

But even if you think we are misguided by a human false guru, should you object to that?

Since PBKs claim they are Gyani tu atmas, then, in that view- I had said it. [When devotees utter word - Shivohum, they believe- I am Shiv, and they apply it for every human soul]. But, if anyone applies the title Gyani tu atmas only to themselves- eg- BKs/PBKs, it is definitely wrong, that too, to claim themselves to be cleverer than God- Devotees believe atma so paramatma, then never claim atma superior to paramatma]. Hope you realize how great mistake it is.

I haven't heard that clarification that the body is Madhuban. I think you are making it up.

It is not making up. It is just addressed even taking that case AS WELL- [in case, if in future, PBKs argue in that way].

[sita]

Since PBKs claim they are Gyani tu atmas, then, in that view- I had said it. [When devotees utter word - Shivoum, they believe- I am Shiv, and they apply it for every human soul]. But, if anyone applies the title Gyani tu atmas only to themselves- eg- BKs/PBKs, it is definitely wrong, that too to claim cleverer than God- Devotees believe atma so paramatma, then never claim atma superior to paramatma]. Hope you realize how great mistake it is.

The point was that if someone says Shivohum, or whatever type of bhatki that is wrong idea he may have, we have to respect that.

[mbbhat]

The point was that if someone says Shivohum, or whatever type of bhatki that is wrong idea he may have, we have to respect that.

Again LLU. Bhakti people do not challenge/question others and ask for debate like PBKs knock at the door of BKWSU. [But, kindly note that- Baba clearly says- the lowkik Gurus who taught Shivohum, etc are the ones who committed big mistakes].

The person who knocks the door of others or teaches something to others should be more correct. If PBKs wish to teach BKs, they should be better in understanding Murlis. This was the point of argument.

we have to respect that

Again just LLU. Within the circle of drama, we all respect everyone. Nothing is wrong/new in this drama. You know that. But, in drama, it is number-wise.

But, when there is attempt to make our rank better, we cannot leave the matter to drama, and then there comes the discussion/debate, etc. So- suggestion is- kindly understand the point of argument instead of giving reply out of context.

[sita]

So you think by winning arguments you are getting higher status.


= RESPONSE =

जाल से निकली हुई आत्मायें कितना भी उन दास आत्माओं को महसूस करायें लेकिन बेहोश को महसूसता क्या होगी? ...
बेहोशी में कई बोलते भी बहुत हैं। लेकिन वह बोल बिना अर्थ होता है। ऐसे रूहानी बेहोशी की स्थिति में अपना स्पष्टीकरण भी बहुत देते हैं लेकिन वह होता बेअर्थ है।
“No matter how much souls, who have come out of the web, try to explain to servant souls and make them understand, what can unconscious souls understand? ...
When some are unconscious they speak a lot, but their words are meaningless! Many in the state of spiritual unconsciousness give their own explanations about everything, but all of them are meaningless!” [AV 06.04.1982, Rev 04.06.2017]

The BLIND Unrighteous children, who are STILL TRAPPED in the VICIOUS WEB of the ADULTERATED & CORRUPTED, REVERSED advanced knowledge, are UNCONSCIOUS, and hence it is POINTLESS trying to make them understand ANYTHING, in the CORRECT PERSPECTIVE, WHILE they STILL REMAIN in that state of Spiritual UNCONSCIOUSNESS.

The 'MAHA-MURKH' 'mukara-rath' of Ravan, who is in a CLEAR state of Spiritual UNCONSCIOUSNESS, gives his OWN explanations about almost EVERYTHING contained in the SMs & AVs - which are OBVIOUSLY MEANINGFUL to the BLIND Unrighteous children, (with ADULTERATED, CORRUPTED & INVERTED STONE intellects), who have been TREACHEROUSLY TRICKED into DELUSIVELY believing that same represent the 'unlimited clarifications' of the SMs & AVs, (but which are ACTUALLY the ADULTERATED & CORRUPTED 'unlimited clarifications' of same) - but all of them are MEANINGLESS to the Pure Divine intellects of the Righteous Children, who are CLEARLY able to DIFFERENTIATE between the Pure UNADULTERATED Knowledge & the ADULTERATED, CORRUPTED & REVERSED advanced knowledge - and who imbibe ONLY the PRECIOUS PEARLS/NECTAR of UNADULTERATED Knowledge, and THROW AWAY the STONES/POISON of the ADULTERATED knowledge.

[mbbhat]

Flaw No. 547) PBK interpretation and claims of ANAADI, WORLD EMPEROR, etc - brings spiritual suicide for themselves:-.

This post is an addition to flaw No. 508 - viewtopic.php?f=39&t=2099&p=52674&hilit=samvat#p52674

402) PBKs claim for a soul to be anaadi, should be present in corporeal body all the 5000 yrs. They claim Mr. Dixit will return to Paramdham only in the end, when all the rest of the human souls have had already left their bodies. But, Baba says-

403) SM 20-4-2017:- अभी नाटक पूरा होता है, जो भी एक्टर्स हैं सब चले जायेंगे, बाकी थोड़े रहेंगे। राम गयो रावण गयो.. बाकी बचेंगे कौन? दोनों तरफ के थोड़े-थोड़े ही बचेंगे, बाकी सब वापिस चले जायेंगे। फिर मकान आदि बनाने वाले, सफाई करने वाले भी बचते हैं। समय चाहिए ना। हम भी चले जायेंगे। तुमको राजाई में जन्म मिलेगा। वो फिर सफाई करते हैं। बाबा ने कहा है, जहाँ जीत वहाँ जन्म। भारत में ही जीत होगी। बाकी वह सब खलास हो जायेंगे। राजायें आदि जो धनवान होंगे, वह बचेंगे, जिनके पास तुम जन्म लेंगे। सारी सृष्टि का फिर तुमको मालिक बनना है।
= “The Play is now coming to an end, and all the actors will RETURN (Home). VERY FEW WILL REMAIN. There is a saying- "RAMA went & Ravan went"... So, then, who will remain? Very few will remain FROM BOTH SIDES, the rest will all RETURN. Then those who build buildings, and those who cleanse everything will ALSO remain. Time is needed for that. We will also RETURN. You will take birth with Sovereigns. Those people will cleanse everything. Baba says: You will take birth where there is Victory. There will be Victory in Bharat alone; all the rest will PERISH. Sovereigns and the others, who are wealthy, will remain, with whom You will take birth. You have THEN to become the Masters of the WHOLE World.” {Ram, Ravan, prediction, Advance Party]

Viewers may also like to review the comments on above, in point 4 of link below -
viewtopic.php?f=40&t=2602&p=52838#p52838

404) If Mr. Dixit claims he and the PBKs would be last ones to leave their bodies, then they inadvertently imply- they would be playing the role of labourers, not Kings as per the Murli point.

405) PBKs also claim that masters of the whole world means masters for all the 7 billion souls. But, the above Murli point refers it to the next Kalpa (Golden Age).

Mr. Dixit while trying to play role of double HK Hood (claiming superior to God as well as B Baba and BKs)- resulted in his own spiritual suicide.

[mbbhat]

# Flaw No. 548) Another Murli point proving that the Sakar part cannot repeat in the same way as PBKs claim:-

406) AM 17-4-69(Pg. 50 and 51 of the Hindi Book)- in the full page Murli, mostly it is last page:- Abhee toh samay bahut nazdeek pahunch gayaa hai, jismay agar dheelaa purushaarth rahaa, toh purushaarth kaa samay haath se kho denge. Abhee toh ek2 second, ek2 shwaas, maaloom hai kitney shwaas chalthey hain? Anginath hai na. TOH EK2 SHWAAS, EK2 SECOND, SAFAL HONAA CHAAHIYE. ABHEE AISAA SAMAY HAI, AGAR KUCH BHEE ALBELAAPAN RAHAA, TOH KAYI BACHCHON NE Sakar MADHUR MILAN KAA SOUBHAAGY GAVAAN DIYAA. VAISE HEE YAH PURUSHAARTH KE SOUBHAAGY KAA SAMAY HEE HAATH SE CHALAA JAAYEGAA. Isliye pahley se hee sunaa rahe hain. Purushaarth se sneh rakh purushaarth ko aage badhaavo. Oopar se saaraa khel dekhte rahte hain. Tum bhee aakar dekho, toh badaa majaa aayegaa. Bahut ramaneek khel bachchon kaa dekhte rahte hain. Aap bhee dekh saktey ho. Agar apnee oonch avasthaa may shtih hokar dekho, toh apney sahith auron kaa bhee khel dekhney may aavegaa.

= Now, the time has come near, and if you have weak effort, you will LOSE TIME. ....Every second, and breath should become safal/success. Now, the time is so. IF ANY CARELESSNESS REMAINS, LIKE SOME CHILDREN (WHO HAVE COME LATER) HAVE LOST THE FORTUNE OF THE SWEET Sakar MEETING, EVEN THIS TIME OF EFFORT ALSO WILL BE LOST FROM THE HAND. Hence (Badada) is telling you in advance.

This Murli point also implies there cannot be corporeal meeting in the SAME WAY as it has been in the beginning of Yagya- like PBKs claim. PBKs claim that ShivBaba is present in Mr. Virendra Dev Dixit like ShivBaba had been in B baba during earlier days of Yagya.

[mbbhat]

# Flaw No. 549) PBK concept/misinterpretation of INTELLIGENT Lakshmi and Narayan fails by DEFAULT itself:-

408) Usually PBKs like to argue like- MY cock has three legs. They claim the so-called Conf. Age LN are intelligent, and say the intelligence what Baba has said is for Conf. Age only*.

viewtopic.php?f=39&t=2099&p=51696&hilit ... ent#p51696 It is hard for me to accept the argument that Lakshmi and Narayan being intelligent means that they are pure. Then why it is said that deities are ignorant. They are pure but ignorant. What is there a matter of intelligence in being pure if it is a matter of a result of what you have done in your past life. You were intelligent then, not now.

But, the following Murli point clearly proves their argument to be false, without leaving any room.

SM 17-1-82(1):- Bharat hee 100% samajhdaar thaa. Ab 100% besamajh hain. 100% SAMAJHDAAR 2500 VARSH RAHTAA HAI. Phir pooraa besamajh ban padtaa hai. -23 [information, LM, PBKs]
= Bharat only was 100% intelligent. Now 100% foolish. 100% INTELLIGENT WILL BE FOR PERIOD OF 2500 YRS. Then it becomes completely foolish. -23

Clearly Baba is using the word INTELLIGENCE for purity/stability, during Golden & Silver Ages.

* - But, the level of intelligence of PBK Lakshmi and Narayan is totally ridiculous, and already discussed in detail on the forum.

[sita]

405) PBKs also claim that masters of the whole world means masters for all the 7 billion souls. But, the above Murli point refers it to the next Kalpa (Golden Age).

In the Golden Age the whole world is Bharat, so it is again the master of the world. But there is a point that says that there is a difference to become a master of the world and master of the Golden Age.

TOH KAYI BACHCHON NE Sakar MADHUR MILAN KAA SOUBHAAGY GAVAAN DIYAA.

In this point it is said that if children are not making proper effort, at the time of effort, if there is carelessness at the time of effort, the time of effort will pass away. In the same way like some missed the opportunity of the Sakar meeting. It means that the opportunity of Sakar meeting was missed because of not making effort and carelessness, not because of coming later, because for those who just come later they just did not have the chance, it is not that they were careless and did not make effort and missed that. So the point is about being careless at the time of the Sakar one, and missing due to that carelessness.

SM 17-1-82(1):- Bharat hee 100% samajhdaar thaa. Ab 100% besamajh hain. 100% SAMAJHDAAR 2500 VARSH RAHTAA HAI. Phir pooraa besamajh ban padtaa hai. -23 [information, LM, PBKs]
= Bharat only was 100% intelligent. Now 100% foolish. 100% INTELLIGENT WILL BE FOR PERIOD OF 2500 YRS. Then it becomes completely foolish. -23

This is a good point that proves your point.

Very few will remain FROM BOTH SIDES

Which are these two sides?

ShivBaba has come as most obedient servant, he does the task of purification, this is not a low task, to prepare the land for others is good service. Some receive the job of moping away the dirt, some receive the job of cleaning the utensils of the mind and the body, or the house like body, or the field of the mind. In this drama there is a Law of Karma, we receive whatever we do. Those who transform the world will receive prize for that. Those who come to a ready-made world and take service from others will have to return that service.

[mbbhat]

Which are these two sides?

ShivBaba has come as most obedient servant, he does the task of purification, this is not a low task, to prepare the land for others is good service. Some receive the job of moping away the dirt, some receive the job of cleaning the utensils of the mind and the body, or the house like body, or the field of the mind. In this drama there is a Law of Karma, we receive whatever we do. Those who transform the world will receive prize for that.

409) That is also true. That is why Baba has clearly said- Ram and Sita will receive Kingdom (later only) due to their physical service (noukari) what they do in Golden Age, by virtue of their actions in Confluence Age.
Post No. 79 - http://www.brahmakumarisforum.net/chat/ ... ati#p11517

410) But, the real/main transformation is through thought service. Because they recharge nature itself. THAT IS THE HIGHEST SERVICE. So, those who do this service very well will not need to do the physical one much.

Those who come to a ready made world and take service from others will have to return that service.

411) That is also good point. That is why Baba says- highest suffering is for mother and Father, since they take more service from others, due to their highest seat. - Post No. 193 - http://www.brahmakumarisforum.net/chat/ ... ing#p15243

412) But, here Baba is saying about serving after the too-late board, end time. So- they are like forced one. Not a natural one. That is why it becomes lower. "Aapey hee karey toh devtaa, karne se karey toh manushy. "
= Those who do themselves are deities, those who do after being told are humans.

So, in the end period after too late board, the service done would not have great value.

[But in Confluence Age, Brahma Baba & Saraswati Mama are the ones who perform the HIGHEST Spiritual Service, and become the HIGHEST SPIRITUAL World Sovereigns, in Confluence Age, by VIRTUE of which they receive the reward of becoming the HIGHEST PRACTICAL World Sovereigns in Golden Age. This is CLEARLY in ACCORDANCE with the INVIOLABLE Law of Karma!]



= RESPONSE =

But there is a point that says that there is a difference to become a master of the world and master of the Golden Age.

It has already been explained several times on this forum, by citing INNUMERABLE Murli points, that Brahma Baba & Saraswati Mama, THEMSELVES, become the HIGHEST PRACTICAL Masters of the Golden Age, by VIRTUE of having been the HIGHEST SPIRITUAL Masters of the Confluence Age. However, the Spiritual status of the VERY SAME set of souls, in Confluence Age, is regarded as Superior, to the Spiritual status of the VERY SAME set of souls, when they enact their respective roles in Golden Age. It is NOT THAT the HIGHEST Masters of the Confluence Age are DIFFERENT from the HIGHEST Masters of the Golden Age, as the PBKs have been TRICKED into DELUSIVELY believing by their bodily guru, -Virendra Dev Dixit. But such CLEAR clarifications are NOT EXPECTED to sit in the ADULTERATED & CORRUPTED STONE intellects of the BLIND PBKs, hence one cannot really say that it is their wilful or deliberate fault - it is just a default of the PBKs, within this EWD Play, THAT's ALL!

Strictly, from the AIVV point of view, the (MIS)INTERPRETATION of the above point, ACTUALLY becomes ACCURATE or RIGHT - but in the Confluence between Silver Age & Copper Age - when the ENTIRE Cycle TURNS by 180 degrees, or becomes TOPSY-TURVY - and the INVERTED intellects of the PBKs, THEN APPEAR to become UPRIGHT, with respect to their comprehension of the occurrences during this period of TIME. At THAT TIME, the PRACTICAL Masters of the World - the LAST PAIR of World Sovereigns of Silver Age, Sita & Rama - Rama being the soul of -Virendra Dev Dixit - are MORE Knowledgeable and MORE Spiritually ELEVATED, than their offspring, who are born as TWINS to them - being the souls of Brahma Baba & Saraswati Mama - and who become the Masters of the World, in the 'Golden Age' of Ravan Rajya, in the very beginning of Copper Age.
In this case, the TWO SETS of souls, in the Confluence between Silver Age & Copper Age, and the beginning of Copper Age, are INDEED DIFFERENT, to which the ADULTERATED advanced knowledge ACTUALLY pertains.
It is very clear that the ENTIRE ADULTERATED & CORRUPTED, REVERSED advanced knowledge, ACTUALLY pertains EXCLUSIVELY to the occurrences within Ravan Rajya, COMMENCING from the Confluence between Silver Age & Copper Age, right until the very end of Iron Age - the EXACT 'shooting' of which takes place in the Confluence Age, between Iron Age & Golden Age, through the 'mukrar-rath' of Ravan, MASQUERADING as the 'mukrar-rath' of God, and becoming instrumental to carry out the 'shooting' of HiranyaKashyap & Ravan Rajya - more specifically, in the latter part of THIS Confluence Age!
An EXTREMELY DEEP, SUBTLE & FAR-REACHING intellect is ESSENTIAL to CORRECTLY COMPREHEND these SUBTLEST aspects, in their PROPER PERSPECTIVE, by taking the WHOLE Cycle into due consideration.

[mbbhat]

# Flaw No. 550) PBK concept of "EKAVYAAPI(present only in one)" fails in their own distorted view:-

413) PBKs question BKs- if God is not sarvavyaapi(omnipresent), where is he as ekavyaapi(present only in one)?

Actually, this question is not important to BKs, or even from Murli point of view, since Baba says-
----"Even if I am in the Chariot, you remember me in Paramdham".
[The need is to prove that God is not SARVAVYAAPI (OMNIPRESENT), and NOT to make God look, to be bound to be in ONE body.]
----Also Baba says- "I do not ride the Chariot whole day."

So- question of forcing/expecting God to stay in a body does not arise at all.

414) But, suppose say- even if we take their question to be a valid one,

A) In BK view- God is present in ONE one body only.

---From 1936 till 1969, the Chariot was B Baba.
---After 1969, during Avyakt milan, when Shiv comes in Dadi Gulzar, he comes through/with subtle Brahma Baba only.
[B baba is always present with ShivBaba either in Sakar milan or Avyakt milan.]

B) But, in PBK view-

----God had been present in Sevakram from 1936 til 1942.
---God had been present in false Gitamata from 1942 till 1947. (KD soul)
---in B baba from 1947 till 1969 in B Baba.
---from 1969 till 1976 - no proper data- ambiguous.
---From 1976 till 1983, both Mr. Dixit (as well as Premkanta?)
---From 1983 till date - both in Mr. Dixit and Kamala Devi.

Where ShivBaba of PBKs is ekavyaapi?

415) Actually, the PBK concept of EKAVYAAPI is wrong by DEFAULT itself, because PBKs claim "God (officially) enters in TWO".

---PBKs claim God entered in two bodies in 1936, that too simultaneously!

---PBKs claim God had been in False Gitamata (= previous birth of KD) from 1942 till 1947, as well as in both KD and Mr. Dixit since 1983 till date.
So- where do PBKs follow the concept of Ekavyaapi?

[sita]

Baba has said he enters children to do service. He is not ekvyapi in that sense. Among the children who are numberwise one attains complete Bap saman stage. Although we believe Shiv entered Brahma we don't see Brahma as form of God, because God did not play the highest on high part through him, of the incorporeal, viceless and egoless Father, teacher and Satguru, but a part of a corporeal mother due to the stage of the corporeal personality. If just through entering God was revealed as ekvyapi in front of the world, why does it take so much time. It takes time, because it takes effort of the one in whom he enters to attains the stage and only then he is revealed, till that time he is incognito. That is why because Brahma Baba did not attain the complete stage there is no worship of Brahma. Whatever memorials are there are of some effort done by someone. The form of Shivling, the symbol of purity and the incorporeal stage is worshipped the most, because it is a representation of the greatest effort and the greatest result.

The lucky Chariot receives the lift of the fact that he has given his body on loan, so he receives a lift of the rent. That lift is of the manan chintan manthan. The ganga of knowledge emerges from the head. For example also the one in whom the Supreme Father enters cannot possibly miss a class.

Regarding remembrance it is said that those who remember up above are Shudra community, because they don't know the time, place, name, form and actions of the Father. It is said why remember up above when he has come here, in front of us, face to face. The matter about remembering up above is about high stage.


= RESPONSE =

'those who remember up above are Shudra community, because they don't know the time, place, name, form and actions of the Father'

Shiva clarified this to the REAL 'mouth-born', TRUE Brahmins, who were adopted by Him, trough the Lotus Mouth of Brahma Baba. He was referring to the BLIND devotees and Sannyasis, of the outer World of Ravan Rajya, who were UNSUCCESSFULLY trying to remember God up above, in Paramdham or the Supreme Abode, in ACCORDANCE with their DISTORTED & PERVERTED CONCEPTS of 'Rajopradhan & Tamopradhan' Bhakti - WITHOUT knowing, understanding or REAL-EYEsing, the PROPER time, place, name, form and actions of God, the Father, within this Cycle or EWD - the EXACT 'shooting' of which is carried out by the BLIND PBKs - who have been TREACHEROUSLY INDOCTRINATED by their bodily guru, in the Confluence Age - and who DO NOT KNOW the PROPER time, place, name, form and actions of the Unlimited Supreme Father, Incorporeal Supreme Soul, REAL ShivBaba, Shiva or God, as their 'Parlokik' Father - and who TOTALLY CONFOUND & MIX Him with their bodily guru, who is ACTUALLY the 'mukrar-rath' of Ravan, MASQUERADING as 'ShivBaba', 'Paramatma', 'Supreme Soul', 'Ishwar', 'Bhagvan', 'Allah', 'Rama', 'Prajapita Brahma', 'Vishnu', 'Shankar', 'Shiv-Shakar-Bholenath', etc., etc., etc., being instrumental to carry out the 'shooting' of HiranyaKashyap & Ravan Rajya - more specifically, in the latter part of Confluence Age - and involved in CONSISTENTLY & PERSISTENTLY OPPOSING, DEFAMING, INSULTING & MOCKING God, and making THOROUGH IDIOTS out of the BLIND Unrighteous/Unworthy PBKs - very much to their VERY OWN DETRIMENT, DEGRADATION & PERDITION - WITHOUT them being in the slightest position to REAL-EYEs or Re-Cognize, what EXACTLY is ACTUALLY taking place!

It is said why remember up above when he has come here, in front of us, face to face.

Shiva clarified this to the REAL 'mouth-born', TRUE Brahmins, who were adopted by Him, trough the Lotus Mouth of Brahma Baba, and pertained EXCLUSIVELY to them, at THAT TIME. Since the Righteous/Worthy Children were TOTALLY body-conscious AT THAT TIME, they had NO Spiritual CAPABILITY to IMMEDIATELY consider themselves as souls, and Remember the Supreme Soul, in the Supreme Abode or the Soul World. Therefore, Shiva gave them the PRELIMINARY/TEMPORARY OPTION of Remembering Him within the impure perishable corporeal body of Brahma Baba, (and NOT ANY OTHER embodied individual, on this corporeal sphere), PARTICULARLY when He was PRESENT within the corporeal body of Brahma Baba, and was DIRECTLY speaking to them, THROUGH the Lotus Mouth of Brahma Baba. Shiva, LATER ON, confirmed that they SHOULD NOT remember ANY bodily being, and EVEN forget their own body, and NOT EVEN remember the body of Brahma Baba, but to consider themselves as souls, and Remember Him, ALONE, in the Supreme Abode, or the Soul World, where ALL embodied souls ACTUALLY reside, as souls - and which is the REAL or TRUE Home of all souls, including the Supreme Soul.

This SAME VERSION, has THEN been CRAFTILY MISINTERPRETED, MISREPRESENTED & MISAPPROPRIATED by the PRINCIPAL ‘Defamer Of God’, (who is the bodily guru of the PBKs), to TREACHEROUSLY TRICK the BLIND Unrighteous/Unworthy PBKs that same applies to him, (AFTER Brahma Baba becomes Avayakt, in 1969) - and therefore, they should remember THEIR 'ShivBaba' within his impure perishable corporeal body - thereby TRAPPING them into the VICIOUS GRIP of body-consciousness EVEN FURTHER, and making COMPLETE IDIOTS out of them - WITHOUT them, EVEN REAL-EYEsing what EXACTLY is ACTUALLY taking place - owing to which, NEITHER their bodily guru, NOR ANY of the BLIND PBKs, have EVER BEEN ABLE to SUCCESSFULLY EXPERIENCE, EVEN the PRELIMINARY stage of COMPLETE BODILESSNESS, by considering themselves as souls - TO DATE - LEAVE ALONE, EXPERIENCING the ANGELIC stage!
This ABSOLUTE TRUTH, based on PRACTICAL PROOF, is INDIVIDUALLY & PERSONALLY VERIFIABLE, by the CONCERNED, INDIVIDUAL PBKs THEMSELVES, WITHOUT having the NEED to EVEN CONSIDER the personal opinion of ANY OTHER individual!

[sita]

'shooting' of which is carried out by the BLIND PBKs

How is that when we don't remember up above. We know and give the full introduction.Those who remember up above are the BKs.


= RESPONSE =

To Remember ‘UP ABOVE’ – in the REAL Supreme Abode (‘Paramdham’), or the TRUE Soul World - with FULL, COMPLETE & UNADULTERATED Introduction, given DIRECTLY by God HIMSELF, through the Lotus Mouth of Brahma Baba, in Confluence Age – in ABSOLUTE ACCORDANCE with God’s FINAL DIRECTIVE to the Righteous Children, or TRUE Brahmins - is Satopradhan Remembrance - which is commemorated by Satopradhan Bhakti, in the VERY BEGINNING of Copper Age, in the outer World of Ravan Rajya.

To remember ‘UP ABOVE’, WITHOUT PROPER Introduction, is commemorated by Rajopradhan Bhakti, in the outer World of Ravan Rajya.

To Remember ‘UP ABOVE’ – in the ‘Living’ (‘chaitanya’) Supreme Abode, in the centre of the forehead of the impure perishable corporeal body of an embodied soul - with FULL, COMPLETE, ADULTERATED & CORRUPTED Introduction, initiated INDIRECTLY by the Godly Form or ‘Iswariya Rup’ of Ravan or Maya, and propagated through the BOGUS mouth of ‘mukrar-rath’ of Ravan, MASQUERADING as the ‘mukrar-rath’ of God, in Confluence Age – in ABSOLUTE ACCORDANCE with the DISTORTED & PERVERTED DICTATES of the Godly Form of Ravan or Maya, to the BLIND Unrighteous children, or FALSE Brahmins, through the ‘mukrar-rath’ of Ravan - is Tamopradhan remembrance - which is commemorated by Tamopradhan Bhakti, at the VERY END of Iron Age, in the outer World of Ravan Rajya – the EXACT ‘shooting’ of which is carried out by the bodily guru of the BLIND PBKs!

ACCORDING to the RELEVANT PROCESS of REMEMBRANCE ACTUALLY EMPLOYED, SO WILL BE the ACTUAL RESULT EXPERIENCED, by the CONCERNED souls – NUMBER-WISE! VERY SIMPLE, INDEED!