Body-consciousness v/s soul-consciousness !!!

[new knowledge]

Dear PBK brothers & sisters, according to you, a soul is completely unconscious in Paramdham & he has to enter into a corporeal body to awake in his consciousness. Now, how can a corporeal body, which itself is inert/gross/unconscious, be the medium to emerge the conscious/awakened stage of a soul?

[arjun]

Om Shanti. It is just like the relationship between a seed and soil. Until and unless a seed comes in contact with the soil and water, it cannot germinate. In the same way until the soul does not come in contact with the physical body it cannot act. Even after entering the body its functions are limited by the growth of the body. When the body is very young, it cannot perform the acts that it can perform through a grown-up body. Of course there are exceptions to everything. You can find some small children performing acts that even grown-up people cannot.
Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

[new knowledge]

Dear arjunbhai, I cannot understand the logic behind the assumption that a physical body, which is itself innert and unconscious by nature, is essential for the activation of the consciousness i.e., the energetic nature of a soul.
Actually, it is the strategy of the cunning Maya to put linitations to access higher level of consciousness by disconnecting links of a soul with his own subtle body (sukshm sharir), casual body (kaaran sharir) and super-casual body (mahaakaaran sharir) which are comparatively better medium of consciousness than the physical body; and by fixing the part of that soul in a physical body which puts obsticles to access consciousness. But, now as we are playing our part in physical bodies and we have lost our link to subtle, casual and super-casual body, we are in a illusion that onlly the physical body is that fertile land which germinates the seed-like soul and we forget that the subtle, casual and super-casual bodies serve as the lands more fertile than the physical body. So, it is not necessary that a soul cannot act without a physical body.

[pbkindiana]

new knowledge wrote:
So, it is not necessary that a soul cannot act without a physical body.

Dear new knowledge Bhai,

If the soul can act without a physical body according to you, then where is the need for the Almighty Supreme Father Shiv to incarnate in a corporeal body to sermonize Murlis? Posting Murli points to indicate that a soul is unable to do anything without a corporeal body.

MU. 30/6/75. --- "How can Father talk without a body? How can He hear? When the soul has a body, then only it can hear and speak. Father says, if I don't have organs, how can I hear or see or speak."

MU. 23/9/87. --- "How can I explain knowledge wothout the aid of the corporeal medium. In this no inspiration is at all involved. I am sitting here in the form of the teacher."

MU. 8/8/05. --- "ShivBaba also says that I speak through this body. Otherwise how will I come. My birth is divine. I come and sit beside him, where the soul resides."

MU. 1/1/77. --- "God Shiva is incorporeal; you can love Him only through a corporeal body."

If Almighty Authority Shiv Himself is unable to play any roles without a body, then what can the human souls who are degraded and powerless to perform any roles without the support of the physical bodies.

Also the religious fathers who come down for the first time to establish their respective religions are unable to act without the physical body as it is said in MU. 30/1/70 ---- "The soul of Christ also enter in someone among us, 33 crores."

indie.

[new knowledge]

Dear brother indiana, a soul can act without a physical body does not mean that he do not enter in it. But now as we have no any link with our subtle body due to the influence of Maya and as our part is limited in a physical body, we are not able to communicate with God, he have to incarnate in a physical body to deliver knowledge.

[pbkindiana]

new knowledge wrote:
a soul can act without a physical body does not mean that he do not enter in it. But now as we have no any link with our subtle body due to the influence of Maya and as our part is limited in a physical body, we are not able to communicate with God, he have to incarnate in a physical body to deliver knowledge.

The bottomline is that a soul can only play its part when it is in a body; whether it enters into another body or take birth through the womb.

indie.

[shivsena]

MU. 1/1/77. --- "God Shiva is incorporeal; you can love Him only through a corporeal body."
indie.

How do we know that we are loving incorporeal bindi Shiva and not the corporeal body itself.

BKs loved brahmababa thinking that they loved ShivBaba, but the Chariot left the body and many BKs are still leaving the bodies without getting any sadgati....the PBKs are also loving the Chariot and many PBKs(young and old) are also leaving the bodies....so if loving Shiva through a corporeal body is the right method, then why does Shiva not return the love by granting the boon of immortality(Godly varsa) to his beloved children.

shivsena.

[Sach_Khand]

This topic is a good question. But I feel that we are misunderstanding the Hindi words "dehabhimaan" and "atmabhimaan".
Abhimaan does not mean consiousness in English, abhimaan means ego or pride.
Accordingly, "dehabhimaan" means pride of our body and
"atmabhimaan" means pride of our self i.e., soul.

I feel that practicing body consciousness too will make us more wakeful and hence we will be more attentive and subtle. This will help us in being soul conscious too. Actually there is not much difference in the effort. It is just changing our focus from body to soul. The actual difficulty is that we are not conscious or in other words we are in a state of dizzieness or drunken state. Drunken state is due to the taste of sensual pleasures residing in our primary memory. We are totally engrossed in remembering the tastes of senses. We not even taste the sensual pleasures as and when it comes. We are always in a state of fantasy of sensual pleasures. If we really start checking what we are remembering and thinking about then we will understand this truth.
And most of the time we are involved in avoiding one of the unpelasant taste of the past or preparing and struggling for having some pleasant taste of the past. Are we really in the present?
I think there is no harm in practicing body consciousness. Some of the sadhanaas of Bhaktimarg do teach them.
The body is the starting point for us to reach the source i.e., soul.
But if the owner of a body i.e., the soul in that body itself is in a dreaming state fantasizing sensual pleasures then how can we reach to that soul through that body? But if a soul in a physical body is introvert and experiencing itself then by being near to that body mentally (physically too will be much better) we too can get the way within. And this experience opens up our blocks too that are within us.
Who is 100% soul conscious? Obviously it is Supreme Soul Shiv. By knowingly remembering the physical body in which Shiv resides we get to know the pathway within, the journey within. And once we get within and bypass the outer physical appearance then there is no need to keep remembering the outer physical appearance. We will automatically get introvert ourselves within seconds of remembering the outer appearance of that physical body. Then afterwards we are not remembering that physical body, but we are actually travelling our journey within us. As and when we get any blockades in our journey within, again the remembering of the physical body of The GodFather wil help us clear that blockade and continue our journey futher within. And this will contiue till we reach our destination within. At that point we will be totally silent and we will feel that it is just "I" and nothing and no one. Not even Shiv. Just "I". And after this stage when we see others too, we will easily feel them as souls and not bodies. And our mind will be contiuously experiencing bliss and happiness which is the inheritence from The GodFather. It is said in Murli, "Atmabhimaani hai toh Baap saath hai hee."
:neutral:
Sanjeev.

[pbkindiana]

Shivsena wrote:
How do we know that we are loving incorporeal bindi Shiva and not the corporeal body itself.

We will not know as we are still full of body-consciousness. It is said "I speak to soul-conscious children and not to body-conscious bulls." So body-conscious bulls like me and you will never know which soul is Shiv till our sins are incinerated. It is said "when you have removed the rust in your soul, then you will be pulled like a magnet."

BKs loved brahmababa thinking that they loved ShivBaba, but the Chariot left the body and many BKs are still leaving the bodies without getting any sadgati....the PBKs are also loving the Chariot and many PBKs(young and old) are also leaving the bodies....so if loving Shiva through a corporeal body is the right method, then why does Shiva not return the love by granting the boon of immortality(Godly varsa) to his beloved children.

Till the permanent Chariot of Shiv has emulate Shiv's incorporeal stage, none of us will be receving any boons from Godfather Shiva. When the seed is transformed, then the whole tree will be transformed. Till then we will be fluctuating.

indie.

[shivsena]

We will not know as we are still full of body-consciousness. It is said "I speak to soul-conscious children and not to body-conscious bulls." So body-conscious bulls like me and you will never know which soul is Shiv till our sins are incinerated. It is said "when you have removed the rust in your soul, then you will be pulled like a magnet."
indie.

So if Shiva talks only to soul-conscious children, then does it not mean that Shiva has neither spoken gems in Murlis in random code form (from 1965-69)in front of BKs, and HE is neither giving any explanations of Murlis through VD to PBKs, and that this whole Sangamyugi game has been devised to seperate out 108 rudra souls( soul-conscious souls) from 9,16,000...and that Shiva will talk only to 108 soul-conscious king quality souls only in the end, who will be continously connected to Shiva through their intellect.

shivsena.

[pbkindiana]

shivsena wrote:
So if Shiva talks only to soul-conscious children, then does it not mean that Shiva has neither spoken gems in Murlis in random code form (from 1965-69)in front of BKs, and HE is neither giving any explanations of Murlis through VD to PBKs, and that this whole Sangamyugi game has been devised to seperate out 108 rudra souls( soul-conscious souls) from 9,16,000...and that Shiva will talk only to 108 soul-conscious king quality souls only in the end, who will be continously connected to Shiva through their intellect.

When it is said that "I speak to soul conscious children" ---- it denotes that only the Sach Gita will be spoken which brings paradise. Whatever Shiv has spoken till 18th Jan 1969 was compulsory for the brahmin children to know the introduction of the soul and the Supreme Father Shiv for us to commence on the journey to upgrade the stage of the soul. What Shiv has spoken in basic knowledge is in cryptic form and the first human being to decode Shiv's knowledge become the master of the world. We have allowed our mind to control us and we are dancing to its tune; so Shiv has to give some elementary studies for us to begin in the quest of upliftment.

indie.

[nivi]

The first lesson in Raja Yoga is also the last lesson.
First it is theory, and in the end it is practical- self-realization!In Christianity they say "Alfa Omega".

Nivi

[shivsena]

; so Shiv has to give some elementary studies for us to begin in the quest of upliftment.indie.

This is where i completely dis-agree with all BKs and PBKs who believe that the elementary studies(Sakar Murlis) are narrated by Ocean of knowledge shiv.

I firmly believe that all Murlis whether before 1965 or after 1965 were spoken by goddess of knowledge Mama Saraswati and that elementary knowledge is the basis of our padayee.
This is remembered in Bhakti-marg as Saraswati vandana(not shiv-vandana) which is recited before class in all primary schools till today in India.

shivsena.

[pbkindiana]

shivsena wrote:
This is where i completely dis-agree with all BKs and PBKs who believe that the elementary studies(Sakar Murlis) are narrated by Ocean of knowledge Shiv.

I firmly believe that all Murlis whether before 1965 or after 1965 were spoken by goddess of knowledge Mama Saraswati and that elementary knowledge is the basis of our padayee.
This is remembered in Bhakti-marg as Saraswati vandana(not Shiv-vandana) which is recited before class in all primary schools till today in India.

It is surprising that it is never mentioned in Sakar Murlis that the sermonizer of Gita is Goddess Saraswathi or inheritance is received by her. In lokik families, fathers are the ones who provide education to their children and not mothers--- mothers role is to take care of the home. Most probably in bakti it is said that Goddess Saraswathi is related to studies as in sangam yug the urn of nectar of knowledge is given to the mothers and they distributed to everyone. Also in bakti Goddess Lakshmi is related to wealth and wealth denotes knowledge in sangam yug; so how does Lakshmi differ to Saraswathi?

indie.

[shivsena]

It is surprising that it is never mentioned in Sakar Murlis that the sermonizer of Gita is Goddess Saraswathi or inheritance is received by her.

In Murlis it is mentioned that Gita sermoniser is ShivBaba, but ShivBaba is neither bindi(as BKs believe) nor Sakar+nirakar ka mel(as PBKs believe)....i feel that ShivBaba means no. 1 shivshakti (Mama Saraswati) who becomes the yartharth roop of ShivBaba in the end as shiv-shakti Bharatmata. She is the paper setter ( narrator of Murlis in code form) and those who understand the Murlis/Vanis get to meet yartharth roop of ShivBaba in the end ("Ghar baite bhagwan mila")
Nobody(BKs-PBKs) meets God ShivBaba by jismani yatra.(either by going to mt abu or by going to Kampil repeatedly)

In lokik families, fathers are the ones who provide education to their children and not mothers--- mothers role is to take care of the home.

I think the basic primary education in all homes is given by the mother and Father is only the bread-winner of the family. When children grow up and go to college, they study themselves or join coaching classes if they are weak. This is what i have seen in India.

so how does Lakshmi differ to Saraswathi?

Lakshmi and Saraswati are one and same soul(devi ek hai, uske roop anek hain)....it is advance knowledge which is spreading dwait(duality) and causing confusion.....in the beginning Goddess of knowledge Saraswati narrates Godly knowledge in code form and those who solve this complex riddle of who is yartharth roop of ShivBaba by deep study of Murlis become saraswat brahmins(Saraswati-putra) and then in the end the goddess of wealth Lakshmi showers them with sthool wealth("Gyan-dhan se sthool dhan ki prapti swata ho jaati hai" ie. gems of knowledge are converted into real diamonds.)

shivsena.