shivsena's theory is basically flawed

[shivsena]

Dear Shivsena Bhai,
Your points may only be aimed at Arjun Bhai, but if i am to learn anything here, i would appreciate you follow Arjun Bhai's lead in this, and provide English translations for your important Murli quotes.

Dear roy Bhai.
OK--i will be more attentive next time i quote Murli points.

[Roy]

Dear Shivsena Bhai

I cannot give any particular points in all fairness, but this is something i believe i have witnessed over a period of time. I am not being biased, i just felt Arjun Bhai made a fair point, and one i agree with in general regarding proofs in Knowledge, not just that you are guilty of double standards.

To be even handed here, there is much in AK i believe, that is not proveable through Murli points... so my stance on this is... lack of proof in the Murli, is not proof of anything... i believe some knowledge, is only achievable through churning. So if either side play that game, they are both guilty of double standards.

Thank you for the translation by the way, it is very much appreciated.

Roy

[Roy]

Dear Shivsena Bhai

It's because i value what you say, that i wish to understand your points, and the back up you give them with your Murli quotes. It is probably very easy to forget, that there are a few of us that don't speak Hindi on this forum, but it is very serviceable to help us non-Hindi speakers with translations.

I appreciate your cooperation in this matter.

Thank you!

Roy

[arjun]

To be even handed here, there is much in AK i believe, that is not proveable through Murli points... so my stance on this is... lack of proof in the Murli, is not proof of anything... i believe some knowledge, is only achievable through churning. So if either side play that game, they are both guilty of double standards.

I agree wholeheartedly. There cannot be Murli proof for each and every word spoken in AK. If it happens like that then there would be no difference between Advanced (PBK) and basic (BK) knowledge. Advance knowledge is partly based on churning of basic knowledge.

[shivsena]

I agree wholeheartedly. There cannot be Murli proof for each and every word spoken in AK. If it happens like that then there would be no difference between Advanced (PBK) and basic (BK) knowledge. Advanced Knowledge is partly based on churning of basic knowledge.

Then why it is said in Murlis/Vanis and also taught in AK that "buddhiman vyakti bina proof aur praman ke koi baat sweekar nahin karte" (intellectual people do not accept anything without proof")...and why it is said in Murlis that "Murli tumari lathi hai" ("Murli is your yard-stick")...a yard-stick is a measurable objective proof.
And again why it is said that : "sarva samasya ka samadhan Murli se mil sakta hai". (all mysteries can be solved or answered by Murlis")

[Roy]

Great points Shivsena Bhai, but perhaps even these are still open to interpretation and/or manipulation(not necessarily by you by the way!)!

Many thanks for the translations by the way, they're much appreciated.

It's a tough game this ol' Knowledge is not it! :D

Roy

[arjun]

Then why it is said in Murlis/Vanis and also taught in AK that "buddhiman vyakti bina proof aur praman ke koi baat sweekar nahin karte" (intellectual people do not accept anything without proof")...and why it is said in Murlis that "Murli tumari lathi hai" ("Murli is your yard-stick")...a yard-stick is a measurable objective proof.
And again why it is said that : "sarva samasya ka samadhan Murli se mil sakta hai". (all mysteries can be solved or answered by Murlis")

But it is also said in the Murlis that those who belong to your clan will be convinced with just a few words. Murlis clearly direct us to desist from arguements. I have already quoted that point in response to arguements of mbbhat Bhai and sachkhand Bhai on this forum.
If you state clearly that you are here only to argue then I will certainly take time to quote that Murli point again. But that will end our discussions on this forum. The choice is yours. :D

[Sach_Khand]

But it is also said in the Murlis that those who belong to your clan will be convinced with just a few words. Murlis clearly direct us to desist from arguements. I have already quoted that point in response to arguements of mbbhat Bhai and sachkhand Bhai on this forum.
If you state clearly that you are here only to argue then I will certainly take time to quote that Murli point again. But that will end our discussions on this forum. The choice is yours. :D

I would give a better choice for Arjun and people like him. Why do we not have groups in our names instead of BK, PBK, commonroom etc., We can just post all our theories and information that we want to put on and only those who accept with our views without questioning can write their praises for our churnings and our decency and our curning power and ...

I hope this suits best for such people who just cannot remain silent when they cannot answer or give proof as that hurts their ego.
It would be better if people here understand that no one is forced to answer or answer immediately. They can remain silent and as and when they have answers for the questions raised or as and when they have proof/s for their theories or statements they can provide them. Why is the EGO so much hurt and always ready to blame others for our own insufficiency?

:neutral:
Sanjeev.

[arjun]

I hope this suits best for such people who just cannot remain silent when they cannot answer or give proof as that hurts their ego.

Nothing new. :D

[Sach_Khand]

Nothing new. :D

Surely, history is repeating itself. First it was some so called BKs and now Virendra Dev Dixit along with the so called PBKs. Imposters will repeat their ways.

Kuttaey ki dum kya kabhi sidhi hoti hai? (Does ever the tail of dog straighten?)

:neutral:
Sanjeev.

[arjun]

Kuttaey ki dum kya kabhi sidhi hoti hai? (Does ever the tail of dog straighten?)

I thank the above member for giving me the title of dog. :D

[Roy]

My feeling is, the only absolute proof you'll get of anything, is during Revelation!

Roy

[Roy]

These points are from an edited Murli from thr Brahmakumaris.info site dated May '66. Can anyone verify if these are genuine points from an original Murli/s during May '66?

1) “spiritual Father hai hi ek manushya jisme mukar roopse Paramatma pravesh karke spiritual leader banthe” ------ Spiritual leader is only one human being in whom Paramatma prominently enters and becomes the spiritual leader.

2) “Shiv Shankar atma alag alag hai lekin shirr ek hai” ----- Shiv and Shankar are two different souls but the body is only one.

3)“jo sukh ki sristi me the hai tho o devtha banthe hai. vunme bhi categories hai. koyi poore 21 jenmo keliye sukh lethe hai aur koyi kam jenmo ka sukh lethe hai. lekin poora sukh lethe hai” ----- Those who comes into the world of happiness they will become devta’s. In that also there are categories. Some will take happiness completely for 21 births and some for less number of births. But will get complete happiness.

4)“jo chaurasi jenmose poore 21 jenmo ka sukh lenewali atma hai o surya vamsi ki atma honge aur vus surya vamsi ki atma ke dwara hi sari sristi ka jenam hotha hai” ----- The souls who take complete happiness for 21 births, they belong to Sun dynasty and only through those sun dynasty souls the whole world will take birth.

5)“isliye sastro me kehthe hai naulak sitare asman me chemakthe hai” ---- That’s why it has been said in the scriptures 9 lakh soul will shine in the sky.

6)“Tho roohani baccho se bath karthe hai kisliye? Jo yeha roohani stage me tikenge, dehban ko tyagenge vahi manushya se devtha ban sakenge” ----- So he talks with the spirirtual children those who stay in the soul conscious stage. Those who sacrifies only they will become human beings to devta’s.

7)“Ab vichar karo Krishna ki ya Narayan ki bakth kaun hoga? Jo Krishna ki soul hogi vahi Krishna ki sab se jasthi bhakt hoga jo Nar se Narayan bana hoga vahi Narayan ki bhakt hoga. Mana jo poojya banthe hai vahi pujari banthe hai” ----- Now churn yourself who are the devotees of Krishna or Ram. The soul of Krishna will be the highest devotee of Krishna and the who became Nar se Narayan that soul might be the great devotee of Narayan. Meaning those who were worshipped earlier , they only will become worshippers afterwards.

8)“Ravan ko manushyo ki sena dhikhadi aur Ram ko bandaronki sena dhikhadi.Ram ko manushya nahi mile kya? Ise baat nahi vastavik me kaliyugki anth me ye sari sristi par Ravan Rajya pheljatha hai. Ram ki manushya tan me jo ki hero partadhari hai vusme Supreme Soul pravesh karthe hai aur pravesh karke Bandar jisi mahavikari sena ko ikhatta karthe hai baki ise nahi bandoronki sena li. Bandar se bhi manushya me jyada vicar hothe hai” ----- Human army was shown to Ravan and monkey army was shown to Ram. Is that means that Ram didn’t find the human army? It is not that in fact at the end of Kaliyug Ravan Rajya spreads the whole world. When the surpreme soul enters into the human body of Ram, the one who plays the hero part and by entering in him, he gathers the army whose intellect was like monkeys other than that he didn’t really took the monkeys as his army. More vices will be there in humans than in monkey’s.

9)“Ram ki atma ne jeb Ramayan likhi vusi samai ye bhi likh diya mai patit ankur raja hu. Mai sab patito ka raja hu” ----- Ram’s soul when he wrote the Ramayan he wrote this also that I am the seed to all impure souls. I am the king to all impure souls.

Roy

[arjun]

These points are from an edited Murli from thr Brahmakumaris.info site dated May '66. Can anyone verify if these are genuine points from an original Murli/s during May '66?

Roy Bhai,
Om Shanti. From the language of the Murlis in Hindi and English quoted by you it appears as if they were quoted by mbbhat Bhai on that forum. I don't have any Murlis from that period to verify. But both Hindi and English versions of the Murli extracts quoted by you seem to have mistakes (typographical and translation-related).
OGS,
Arjun

[Roy]

Thanks Arjun Bhai!