Dada Lekhraj Brahma: Karmatit or not in 1969!!

[arjun]

how can such a soul be instrumental in narrating perfect Vanis....this is what i cannot understand.

He gets the perfect knowledge when he enters the body of Shankar in a seed-form (beejroop) stage to listen to the advance knowledge and goes back to the BKs to narrate it as Avyakt Vanis.

[Roy]

Do you also believe that DL-brahma became karmatit farishta in 1969.This is the biggest stumbling block for me to understand, how can someone who could not understand the Sakar Murlis, who could not control the Yagya after Mama's death, who succumbed to a heart attack and died a broken man, who never thought of himself becoming a farishta (he always knew he was going to become Krishna in Golden Age), whose part was that of temporary Chariot, who was just title-dhari prajapita brahma(according to AK)....how can such a soul be instrumental in narrating perfect Vanis....this is what i cannot understand.Also Murlis always say that Krishna is 16* pure devta, and is never mentioned that Krishna is farishta...so first we have to understand who is farishta and who are devtas as per the Vani dated 29-3-81 which clearly differentiates between farishta and devta. ("Devtaein app sab farishton ke liye varmala lekar ke intezar kar rahe hain farishton ko varne ke liye.") (meaning:" Deities are waiting for farishtas with garland, to wed them.')....so first it has to be clear who are farishta souls and who are Deity souls.It would also be interesting to know Baba dixit's interpretations about the above point, as AK has never clarified the difference between farishtas and devtas.

Very interesting questions Shivsena Bhai; and no, i do not believe that Brahma Baba had become a Karmatit farishta in 1969, for all the reasons you have stated! I was never taught that Brahma Baba died of a heart attack, or that Mama succumbed to painful cancer; and years before i came across AK, when i learned how other souls had succumbed to illnesses; it made me question the idea of them being karmatit, at the time of leaving the body. I feel any soul leaving their body at the time of illness, has not become a karmatit farishta. I believe this stage, has to be achieved whilst we remain in Sakar(bodies), so that souls at the end will be able to witness living(embodied) angels. We can only truly witness or experience these things, when they are manifest in Sakar. I believe what i have just said, goes some way to addressing the final part of your question. There will probably only be 108 farishta souls to begin with, who will be those closest in stage to Baba Dixit, when he becomes karmatit in 2018(the rest will be some way behind i believe). Imo, we await these souls becoming karmatit, to bring the Yagya to a close. I found an interesting Murli point the other day, which i think is quite apt to share at this time. "It is similar to the (worldly) exams conducted once in 12 months. We study for 9 months, remaining 3 months are for the establishment."[Mu 12-3-69] If you work this out exactly, on the basis that the Confluence Age lasts for 100 years; it means study(the Rudra Gyan Yagya), will come to an end, in 2012. I personally don't think this is right, i believe it will be 6 years later, in 2018; the Murli point is not being quite that precise imo. However, i love the point you have presented Bhai, that the Deities are waiting for the farishtas with garland to wed them. Is this great point, maybe speaking of the merger of the PBKs and the BKs?... and if so, from an AK point of view; the farishtas will most likely come from the PBK side.

Regarding Brahma and his narration of the Avyakt Vani; i believe Father Shiv, could easily make up for any deficiencies in Brahma Baba's presentation, and Knowledge, with no problem at all. After all; Father Shiv is capable of giving the most beautifully detailed visions and experiences to souls, without actually physically entering them. He could easily guide Brahma Baba's mind and intellect, to produce flawless Avyakt Vanis, whenever it was necessary.

Roy

[shivsena]

He gets the perfect knowledge when he enters the body of Shankar in a seed-form (beejroop) stage to listen to the Advanced Knowledge and goes back to the BKs to narrate it as Avyakt Vanis.

That is great assumption.
A soul who did not understand Murlis for 30 years and who is baby buddhi according to AK, suddenly after 3 days of leaving his body, he enters into someone unknown(VD) and then starts reciting Vanis.... also after the supposed Shankar comes into knowledge in 1970, he continues to narrate Vanis for almost 3-4 years before the invention of AK ... so do you explain this.

shivsena.

[shivsena]

Regarding Brahma and his narration of the Avyakt Vani; i believe Father Shiv, could easily make up for any deficiencies in Brahma Baba's presentation, and Knowledge, with no problem at all. After all; Father Shiv is capable of giving the most beautifully detailed visions and experiences to souls, without actually physically entering them. He could easily guide Brahma Baba's mind and intellect, to produce flawless Avyakt Vanis, whenever it was necessary.
Roy

So roy Bhai, Father shiv is controlling Brahma-DL's intellect remotely and indirectly narrating Vanis....is this not equivalent to teaching through inspiration and not directly.

The question also arises as to whom Brahma-DL is directing the Vanis to, as it is now clear that BKs do not understand a word of it, even though it is narrated directly in front of them.

[pbkindiana]

shivsena wrote:
That is great explanation.
A soul who did not understand Murlis for 30 years and who is baby buddhi according to AK, suddenly after 3 days of leaving his body, he enters into someone unknown(VD) and then starts reciting Vanis.... also after the supposed Shankar comes into knowledge in 1970, he continues to narrate Vanis for almost 3-4 years before the invention of AK ... so do you explain this.

Brahma DL is under the influence of the seed-form stage when he enters Baba Dixit as it is said in SM "good company uplifts you"--- so under the influence of the seed stage and attachment too, Brahma DL narrates AV without any direct indication revealing the personified form of ShivBaba. It is said when mothers conquer attachment, then revelation begins, so Brahma is unaware that actually he is a mother and that too a senior mother. When he conquers attachment, it will be Brahma's day which is brahmins day too.

indie.

[arjun]

That is great assumption.
A soul who did not understand Murlis for 30 years and who is baby buddhi according to AK, suddenly after 3 days of leaving his body, he enters into someone unknown(VD) and then starts reciting Vanis.... also after the supposed Shankar comes into knowledge in 1970, he continues to narrate Vanis for almost 3-4 years before the invention of AK ... so do you explain this.

The soul of Ram may be unknown to you or he may be Ravan to you, but the souls of Ram and Krishna have been companions since many births. But I think souls like you would definitely feel happy in separating them or creating a friction between them. And as always you forget the role of Father Shiv completely. It is Shiv who is ocean of knowledge.

[arjun]

So roy Bhai, Father Shiv is controlling Brahma-DL's intellect remotely and indirectly narrating Vanis....is this not equivalent to teaching through inspiration and not directly.

No, because Brahma Baba has been constantly giving hints about the practical part of ShivBaba through Avyakt Vanis. It is upto the children to grasp these hints and try to meet the Father in practical.

The question also arises as to whom Brahma-DL is directing the Vanis to, as it is now clear that BKs do not understand a word of it, even though it is narrated directly in front of them.

The PBKs.

[Sach_Khand]

Brahma DL is under the influence of the seed-form stage ...
... so Brahma is unaware that actually he is a mother and that too a senior mother. When he conquers attachment, it will be Brahma's day which is Brahmins day too.

indie.

Brahma, who is considered as Ravan by followers of Virendra Dev Dixit (approved by Virendra Dev Dixit) is also their senior mother !
Are all of them Ravan sampraday?

:neutral:
Sanjeev.

[pbkindiana]

sachkhand wrote:
Brahma, who is considered as Ravan by followers of Veerendra Dev Dixit (approved by Veerendra Dev Dixit) is also their senior mother !
Are all of them Ravan sampraday?

It is so important to understand what Ravan means -- when it is said 'Ravan', it does not indicate that someone is 10 headed but those who go against Ram and his teachings. Even there are PBKs who go against Baba Dixit-Ram and disobey Him, yet living under his canopy. PBKs acknowledge Brahma DL as Jagadamba and give so much regards to him as he is the senior mother. It is said in SM that "this Brahma is your mother but the body is male."

indie.

[Roy]

So roy Bhai, Father shiv is controlling Brahma-DL's intellect remotely and indirectly narrating Vanis....is this not equivalent to teaching through inspiration and not directly. The question also arises as to whom Brahma-DL is directing the Vanis to, as it is now clear that BKs do not understand a word of it, even though it is narrated directly in front of them.

Dear Shivsena Bhai

It obviously is not ShivBaba narrating, as in Father Shiv in Sakar; but it is not simply inspiration either, as this is a totally personal, subjective experience. But is a sort of halfway house, that is necessary in the circumstances. In this scenario, the Avyakt Vanis, are being delivered via a medium, Dadi Gulzar, to many. But this definately is not ShivBaba in his practical role, of meeting the children face to face; this will always take place directly, through the medium of Sakar Brahma(Baba Dixit).

The Murlis are always directed at the soul conscious effort maker children, or Gyani souls; not guru worshippers! :D

Roy

[shivsena]

The question also arises as to whom Brahma-DL is directing the Vanis to, as it is now clear that BKs do not understand a word of it, even though it is narrated directly in front of them.
The PBKs.

I feel that the avaykt Vanis are directed to only potential 108 souls who are destined to attain the avaykt karmatit farishta stage by recognising the no. 1 farishta (Mama)....they will be read by all BKs-PBKs but will be understood only by potential 108, as this has been said in the first few Vanis.

[shivsena]

The Murlis are always directed at the soul conscious effort maker children, or Gyani souls; not guru worshippers!
Roy

So who get the title of Gyani souls in the end !!...is it 16000 or 108 ??

[Roy]

So who get the title of Gyani souls in the end !!...is it 16000 or 108 ??

I think if we're being totally accurate, it's the 108 is not it? The 16000 obviously make good efforts, but the 108 are the truly special souls; they have most love(Yaad) for ShivBaba, and understand the truth the most deeply!

Roy

[shivsena]

I think if we're being totally accurate, it's the 108 is not it? The 16000 obviously make good efforts, but the 108 are the truly special souls; Roy

Dear roy Bhai.

Yes--108 are the souls who are going to be labelled as true Gyani-souls.....in Bhakti marg there is a mala of 108(which is remembered all year round) and a seperate mala of 16000(which is kept in a box and remembered only once a year)....there is no mala of 16108....so imo, just as 16108 seperated from 9 lac BKs(bhakt mala) by AK.... similarly i feel that 16000 and 108 will have to be seperated with a different belief of knowledge.....all 16000 beads will be held together with AK as the thread of knowledge.... and 108 will be held together with the knowledge that no. 1 shivshakti (Mama) is the personified roop of ShivBaba....16108 can never be a combined mala...it has to be sub-divided into 16000 and 108(truly special souls as you said) as per their beliefs.....this is what i feel.

shivsena.

[Roy]

in Bhakti marg there is a mala of 108(which is remembered all year round) and a seperate mala of 16000(which is kept in a box and remembered only once a year)....there is no mala of 16108

This is very interesting!

similarly i feel that 16000 and 108 will have to be seperated with a different belief of knowledge

I am not sure it's simply a different belief; for me it is probably a different level of faith and love; a deep recognition of truth, that is some way beyond even the 16000. ShivBaba has said, everything depends on yogbal!

Roy