Is Virendra Dev Dixit not aware of Supreme Soul Shiv?

[mbbhat]

Arjun wrote:- Then there is this point:
"Anaayaas ghar baithey raastey jaatey Baba nay pravesh kar liya fir maaloom padaa."
"All of a sudden, while sitting at home, while walking on the path Baba entered. Then (I) came to know." (Revised Sakar Murli 29.07.08, pg.3 published by the BKs)

Dear Arjun Soul,

cannot this statement be Then (he= Brahma) came to know. How can you say that the statement is made by Brahma Baba and not ShivBaba?

One more thing:- I had asked you whether at present PBKs belive Mr. Dixit is complete or not? I have not yet recieved reply. The answer is just yes or no. Is it so difficult to answer? If possible please reply to other questions also.

Thank You.

[arjun]

One more thing:- I had asked you whether at present PBKs belive Mr. Dixit is complete or not? I have not yet recieved reply.

I think I have already answered your question stating that he is also an effort-maker (purushaarthi).

[sachkhand]

You have said elsewhere that you don't want to force Baba Veerendra Dev Dixit to give any answer. Then why are you trying to force him to accept that Shiv is speaking through him?.

I do not want to force him to get any explantion. But in my opinion we should not try to deceive people by indirectly projecting ourslves as Paramatma. It is just like worldly Gurus who project themselves as Paramatma with a trick other than used by Virendra Dev Dixit. They say Guru is the embodiement of God and since they are Guru, they are God. And these so called Gods argue amongst themselves for what is correct nature of God. Well, there is possiblity that the time has not yet come for Virendra Dev Dixit to openly accept himself as practical form of God. May be sometime in future he will do so.

If you want to declare yourself as Prajapita you are free to do so..

Why do you want to connect two different things. If I want to declare, I will declare it even though there are thousands of Prajapita already posing themselves.
Thanks.
Sanjeev.

[pbkindiana]

Dear sachkhand Bhai,

The reasons why Baba Dixit is not making any declaration that the Almighty Authority Shiv is in him is because:

First -- If he says that Shiv is in him, then the next intellectual question will be - what is the evidence that GOD is in him? When someone says that GOD is in him or he is GOD, then that 100% purity itself will pull the world towards him. When the ever pure Shiv enters into someone, then that Chariot has the capability to emulate Shiv in every aspect and become the personified form of ShivBaba. So when Baba Dixit still hasn't attained that 100% purity, then that wisdom and intelligence in him can never make him to declare that Shiv is in him. When it is said "Purity is royalty, Purity is unity"--- can Baba Dixit make the world of brahmins (i.e PBKs, BKs, ex-BKs, ex-PBKs, etc.) united as one family with his power of purity. He cannot because he still hasn't attained that purity, so he can never say that Shiv is in him. To say that Shiv is in him, then he should be able to get the brahmin world united as one family as it is said "All the tasks of the world get accomplished through the power of purity."

Second--- If Baba Dixit says that Shiv is in him, then there must be power in the knowledge that comes out of his mouth and whoever reads his work will instantly realizes that Shiv is in him as it is said in the Murli "How to come to know that Father , God is in him? At that time when he delivers knowledge." When the true Gita is spoken then the night becomes the day. When Sakar Murlis were narrated, the night did not transform into day, when advanced knowledge were narrated,the night did not transform into day too. So how can Baba Dixit declare that Shiv is in him when there is no transformation at all. For Baba Dixit to say that Shiv is in him, it denotes that you, sachkhand, will instantly say 'Yes Sir' to whatever Baba says to you as there is a mu. quote "When you knowledge is filled with power, when you explain to others, it will instantly strike the target."

Third---- When Baba Dixt still hasn't emulate Shiv's 100% nirakari stage, how can he say or proof to the world that Shiv is in him? For you and the others who don't acknowledge him as the permanent Chariot of Shiv, it denotes that He still hasn't emulate Shiv's stage yet, so how can he say that Shiv is in him? When you, refuse to accept him, then base on what will those powerful political leaders accept him as the Father of Humanity? So based on all these aspects,

Baba Dixit will never say that Shiv is in him. When He has attained that 100% nirakari stage, that stage itself will make human beings realize that Shiv is in him.

Om Shanti --- indie.

[john]

Dear sachkhand Bhai,

The reasons why Baba Dixit is not making any declaration that the Almighty Authority Shiv is in him is because:

It could also be because Shiva is not in him.
I don't understand why, if ShivBaba works through him, he doesn't know about the early days of the Yagya. There have been copies of early BK documents(1939-49) sent to Virendra Dev Dixit and he doesn't know about them and the knowledge contained in them. Virendra Dev Dixit did not even believe they were authentic.
Now that is very telling, don't you think?

[bansy]

world of Brahmins (i.e PBKs, BKs, ex-BKs, ex-PBKs, etc.) united as one family with his power of purity. He cannot because he still hasn't attained that purity, so he can never say that Shiv is in him. To say that Shiv is in him, then he should be able to get the Brahmin world united as one family

Can you or anyone else explain who constitutes the "Brahmin World" ? OK BKs, PBKs, but even ex-BKs and exPBKs ? Does that include Vishnu Party and other splinters ?

If Baba Dixit says that Shiv is in him, then there must be power in The Knowledge that comes out of his mouth and whoever reads his work will instantly realizes that Shiv is in him

How will impure souls (that is everyone as claimed in Murlis) be able to realize that it is Shiv, if Shiv does not say so himself. For example, Paramdham is the world of silence. Well, look at a wall in front of you, it is also silent. So does that make the wall Paramdham ? No, I think you meant to say whoever listens and converses (i.e. have a relationship) with the Chariot will realise that Shiv is in the Chariot. So then we ask the question to the Chariot "Are you Shiv", and the reply from within the Chariot will be along the lines of "open your divine eye and you will see". The snag is as no-one has yet to have their divine eye open because we are all impure, we cannot see Shiv, but we make the assumption that we see Shiv. Even if Shiv were in the Chariot, we are drawn to the Chariot because there will be two souls in the body and you will have to, with your imperfect divine eye, need to decipher which soul is which.

However, if anyone has such a perfect divine eye to be able to distinguish the souls within any of the chariots then good job. In which case, one can see Shiv clearly so Shiv can announce himself to you directly.

[sachkhand]

AUM Shanti.

Dear sachkhand Bhai,
The reasons why Baba Dixit is not making any declaration that the Almighty Authority Shiv is in him is because:
First -- ...When the ever pure Shiv enters into someone, then that Chariot has the capability to emulate Shiv in every aspect and become the personified form of ShivBaba.
... To say that Shiv is in him, then he should be able to get the Brahmin world united as one family as it is said "All the tasks of the world get accomplished through the power of purity."

You say that if Shiv enters someone then the Chariot soul has the power of Purity and later you contradict the faith of PBKs that Shiv is in Virendra Dev Dixit, by saying that Virendra Dev Dixit still does not have the power of Purity.

Second--- If Baba Dixit says that Shiv is in him, then there must be power in The Knowledge that comes out of his mouth and whoever reads his work will instantly realizes that Shiv is in him as it is said in the Murli "How to come to know that Father , God is in him? At that time when he delivers knowledge." When the true Gita is spoken then the night becomes the day. When Sakar Murlis were narrated, the night did not transform into day, when advanced knowledge were narrated,the night did not transform into day too. So how can Baba Dixit declare that Shiv is in him when there is no transformation at all. For Baba Dixit to say that Shiv is in him, it denotes that you, sachkhand, will instantly say 'Yes Sir' to whatever Baba says to you as there is a mu. quote "When you knowledge is filled with power, when you explain to others, it will instantly strike the target."

Although I do not agree your arguements, I want to ask you what do you think? Is Shiv in Virendra Dev Dixit and is the explanation given by him is actually given by Shiv?
If you accept that Shiv has entered Virendra Dev Dixit, your reasons contradict your conclusion that Shiv has entered Virendra Dev Dixit.

Third---- When Baba Dixt still hasn't emulate Shiv's 100% nirakari stage, how can he say or proof to the world that Shiv is in him? For you and the others who don't acknowledge him as the permanent Chariot of Shiv, it denotes that He still hasn't emulate Shiv's stage yet, so how can he say that Shiv is in him? When you, refuse to accept him, then base on what will those powerful political leaders accept him as the Father of Humanity? So based on all these aspects,

When Shiv is not in him then why Virendra Dev Dixit says that Shiv is giving explanation through him. He could have said that he is the soul who will play the part of Prajapita in future when Shiv enters in him.

Baba Dixit will never say that Shiv is in him. When He has attained that 100% nirakari stage, that stage itself will make human beings realize that Shiv is in him.

Why do you want to tell a simple fact with so much sophistication and roud about. The simple statement would be Shiv is not in Virendra Dev Dixit or Shiv has not entered Virendra Dev Dixit till now but will enter in future.
Thanks.
Sanjeev.

[sachkhand]

However, if anyone has such a perfect divine eye to be able to distinguish the souls within any of the chariots then good job. In which case, one can see Shiv clearly so Shiv can announce himself to you directly.

AUM Shanti.
Divine eye is given by Shiv. If we are to get divine eye and then recognise Shiv, then it is Shiv's duty to give divine eye first, because we on our own cannot have it.
Shiv has introduced about Himself in Murlis. Why cannot he do it now? O.K. if Shiv has introduced himself to Dada Lekharaj after giving him Divine eye. Has Shiv not given Divine eye to Virendra Dev Dixit? Can Virendra Dev Dixit not accept that Shiv is in him?
Thanks.
Sanjeev.

[mbbhat]

Arjun wrote:- I think the above Murli quote is clear enough to prove that nobody can call himself God. Even God will not say directly that I am God. He has to be recognized only through the third eye of knowledge.

I have replied to you several times on the bkinfo forum that he will never accept that Shiv speaks through him because it has been said in the Murlis that 1)those who claim that they are God or that 2)God is speakingthrough them are Hiranyakashyaps.

SM 23-5-81(2):- Baap khud kahte hain main saadhaaran tann may aakar tumhen apna parichay deta hun. Main Gyan ka sagar patit_pavan hun. Main nirakar is tann may aakar pravesh karta hun. Ab Baap tum bachchon ko kahte hain bachche dehi abhimaani bhav. -38

= Father himself says I enter in an ordinary body and give my introduction. I am ocean of knowledge and Purifier. I incorporeal come and enter in this body. Now Father tells you children, children become soul conscious. -38

SM 6-9-73(4):- Ab jitna jinko chahiye so leve. Jitni jholi bharni ho bharo. Main dene ke liye taiyyar hun. -100-

=Now anyone can take how much he wants. How much (you) want to fill, fill. I am ready to give. -100

There are many Murli points that say- My name is Shiv, I am Almighty authortiy. I do not know why Arjun soul says like this.

Dear Arjun soul,
1)You are correct. But I strongly believe that here those refers to human souls, not to God. Hence your quote has no value. But it is OK. I cannot argue since by taking literal meaning of Murli point, your statement is also valid.

2)If possible when you get time, please mention the Murli point that says those are Hiranyakashyaps who say God speaks through them..

The above Murli point which I quoted says I am ocean of Knowledge and Purifier. So should we give title Hiranyakashyap to ShivBaba or at least Brahma Baba?

[arjun]

There are many Murli points that say- My name is Shiv, I am Almighty authortiy. I do not know why Arjun soul says like this.

You underlined the words 'I' in the Murli quote, but you forgot to underline the words 'The Father himself says'. So, ShivBaba is not using the word 'I' directly. He is prefixing the words 'The Father says' to 'I', which makes it an indirect speech and not direct speech.

I will try to produce the Murli point on Hiranyakashyap.

[arjun]

Dear mbbhat Bhai,
Om Shanti. When you asked me to produce the Murli point on Hiranyakashyap, I was reminded that last year sachkhand Bhai had started a separate thread on the same topic on BKInfo forum and I had requested the nimit sisters to send the relevant Murli point. When I checked my email record, I found that they have sent me the following point:
"Kaliyugi guru log kah dete sri - sri 108 Jagatguru. Iske liye phir Baba ne samjhaya hai jo apne ko paratma kahlakar apni puja bhait karate hain unko Hiranyakashyap kahate hain." (Mu.dt. 10.8.83 pg 2)"
I must have produced the English version of the above Murli point on the BKInfo forum, but I will try to translate it once again:
"Iron-Aged Gurus say - Sri-Sri 108 Jagatguru. For this, then Baba has explained that those who call themselves as Supreme Soul and make others to worship them are called Hiranyakashyap." (Mu. dt.10.08.83, pg.2)

They had also sent an original scanned Murli dated 6.1.68, pg.3 in which the point related to Hiranyakashyap appears in the last three lines.

OGS,
Arjun

Murli proof related to Hiranyakashyap

[mbbhat]

You underlined the words 'I' in the Murli quote, but you forgot to underline the words 'The Father himself says'. So, ShivBaba is not using the word 'I' directly. He is prefixing the words 'The Father says' to 'I', which makes it an indirect speech and not direct speech.

1)What about prefixing the word, KHUD(himself)? Does not that make direct speech?

2)Some of the words in Murli:-

Baap kahte hain main ayaa hun. Fathere is tann may virajmaan hai. Tum bachchon ke sammukh baithe hain. = Father says I have come. Father is in this body. (Father) is sitting in front of you children.

Does Mr. Dixit at least speaks the above words and/or like:- Father says, I am Purifier, Gita Sermonizer, Father has come now etc? ?

3)Also I have heard that Mr. Dixit does not call/address PBKs children. Why?

4)One more thing:- BKs believe during the beginning of Yagya the following words have come from Brahma's mouth(may not be in right sequence):-

"Nijanand swaroopam Shivoham2, Gyan swaroopam Shivoham2, prakaasha swaroopam Shivoham2". Do you believe this is true?

-----
5)I know the Murli point about Kiranyakashyaps what you have supplied. But I wanted Murli point that says Those are Hiranyakashyaps who say God is speaking through them, because in your quote you had mentioned both.

Arjun wrote:- I have replied to you several times on the bkinfo forum that he will never accept that Shiv speaks through him because it has been said in the Murlis that those who claim that they are God or that God is speaking
through them are Hiranyakashyaps.

6)Your quote(and also Bhagavaanuvaach):- Iron-Aged Gurus say - Sri-Sri 108 Jagatguru. For this, then Baba has explained that those who call themselves as Supreme Soul and make others to worship them are called Hiranyakashyap."

See the words make others worship:- Did Brahma Baba had this expectation? If not, what is the use of this Murli point here?

[pbkindiana]

John wrote:
It could also be because Shiva is not in him.

If not in him, then where? Shiv needs a Chariot to speak knowledge. Shiv can never go back without establishing paradise on this earth

I don't understand why, if ShivBaba works through him, he doesn't know about the early days of the Yagya. There have been copies of early BK documents(1939-49) sent to Veerendra Dev Dixit and he doesn't know about them and The Knowledge contained in them. Veerendra Dev Dixit did not even believe they were authentic.
Now that is very telling, don't you think?

There is no documentation on whatever Baba dixit says. Moreover there should be power in him when he speaks of knowledge so that the world will nod to his speech. Whatever the BKs have sent to Baba Dixit is not the original as it has been altered to suit their purpose.

Om Shanti -- indie

[arjun]

1)What about prefixing the word, KHUD(himself)? Does not that make direct speech?

No.

Does Mr. Dixit at least speaks the above words and/or like:- Father says, I am Purifier, Gita Sermonizer, Father has come now etc? ?

Yes, ShivBaba (through Baba Virendra Dev Dixit) speaks such words.

3)Also I have heard that Mr. Dixit does not call/address PBKs children. Why?

This has been discussed in another thread many times.

4)One more thing:- BKs believe during the beginning of Yagya the following words have come from Brahma's mouth(may not be in right sequence):-
"Nijanand swaroopam Shivoham2, Gyan swaroopam Shivoham2, prakaasha swaroopam Shivoham2". Do you believe this is true?

No.

5)I know the Murli point about Kiranyakashyaps what you have supplied. But I wanted Murli point that says Those are Hiranyakashyaps who say God is speaking through them, because in your quote you had mentioned both.

I will try. But, it is one and the same. In the path of knowledge nobody calls himself God directly, but acts/speaks in such a royal or subtle way that suggests that they are God or that God is speaking through them.

See the words make others worship:- Did Brahma Baba had this expectation? If not, what is the use of this Murli point here?

I think yes. That is why he named the institution initially as Brahmakumari Ishwariya Vishwa Vidyalaya. The word Prajapita was added many years later. Moreover, different kinds of Bhakti was witnessed even when Brahma Baba was alive although Murlis prohibited BKs from doing Bhakti in subtle or gross form.

[pbkindiana]

Bansy wrote:
Can you or anyone else explain who constitutes the "Brahmin World" ? OK BKs, PBKs, but even ex-BKs and exPBKs ? Does that include Vishnu Party and other splinters ?

Those who have the awareness of Confluence Age.

How will impure souls (that is everyone as claimed in Murlis) be able to realize that it is Shiv, if Shiv does not say so himself.

When the solo soul of Shiv speaks, then it will be the true Gita and everyone will accept the new knowledge as it is said in AV 12/3/85 :"This is new knowledge for the new world. They shouls experience both novelty and truth. They should say that the new knowledge has become clear today."

For example, Paramdham is the world of silence. Well, look at a wall in front of you, it is also silent. So does that make the wall Paramdham ? No, I think you meant to say whoever listens and converses (i.e. have a relationship) with the Chariot will realise that Shiv is in the Chariot. So then we ask the question to the Chariot "Are you Shiv", and the reply from within the Chariot will be along the lines of "open your divine eye and you will see". The snag is as no-one has yet to have their divine eye open because we are all impure, we cannot see Shiv, but we make the assumption that we see Shiv. Even if Shiv were in the Chariot, we are drawn to the Chariot because there will be two souls in the body and you will have to, with your imperfect divine eye, need to decipher which soul is which.

However, if anyone has such a perfect divine eye to be able to distinguish the souls within any of the chariots then good job. In which case, one can see Shiv clearly so Shiv can announce himself to you directly.

An intellectual Chariot will never say that Shiv is in him as to say that shiv in me, then there should be some accomplishments. As there is so much of rust in our souls, one can never see the ever-pure shiv. When the permanent Chariot has emulate Shiv's stage, then only there will true knowledge. And when true knowledge is spoken, then there will not be anymore of polemic discussions.

Om Shanti --- indie