Shankar's Part ?

[mbbhat]

Harikrishna wrote:-

It is the greatest test to recognize the unlimited Father.If it was said directly in the Murli what is the use of test?This is the race of 108.The one who churn and read deeply the Murli points alone recognize the role of Father. Remaining fail to recognise Him.Thats why it was told kotom me bhi koyi(BK), unme bhi koyi(PBK).very very few know it. In them also very few recognize His real part.This Murli point said by Shiv Baba to recognize Him.

Kaise pata pade inme bap bhagavan hai? jab gnan dena...

I read this Murli point but did nt remember the date of Murli.I will provide when i get.If any one have date of above Murli point please post here.

In the above Murli point ShivBaba clearly said how to recognize the part of Him. Churn the above Murli point well you can get the answer for your query.
With The Knowledge given by Him you can recognize.No one can hear knowledge like bhagvan.

Would you like to say How many Murlis you have churned yourself? Or have you just churned (went through) pbk literature?

Have you seen here- Some say- "PBKs have not done churning of their own. They are just blindly following churning of Mr. VD Dixit". Here- - http://bk-pbk.info/viewtopic.php?f=37&t ... han#p43704

Are you aware that God of PBKs (or highest authority of AIVV) have committed blunder in understanding Murlis? some great mistakes are put here.

- http://bk-pbk.info/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2180&start=45

Harikrishna wrote:- But few people who has love with body so mixup them.They do not understand that they are two different souls(Nirakari and akari) who are working in the same body for the transformation of world.Thats why they mix Shiv and Shankar but in reality they are separate souls

So- do PBKs mean to say- of the whole of the PBKs, some have love to body of Mr dixit? Or they are different souls?

Q:- How the question of mixing arise when they do not know that there are two souls in one body? They should have just said - Shankar/dixit is (also) god, is it not? What I mean to say is- Like each devotee in Bhaktimarg considers his deity as God, such weak souls should also have considered Shankar/Dixit as God, is it not? So, this claim goes illogical.
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Our arjun soul also had replied the same as below.

But it is those PBK, BK and non-BK souls who are unable to realize the incorporeal Shiv through Shankar (incorporeal through corporeal) in the end and recognize just the corporeal due to body consciousness who mix up Shiv and Shankar to be one.

He also may reply to the above question if he wishes. [Because if they really do their individual churning of knowledge, then there could be different replies, is it not?]

[harikrishna]

Dear Bhai
You have wrongly understood the answer.
Here is the meaning.
But few people(not PBKs) who has love with (their) body(body consciousness) due to come at last could not understand the difference between shiv and Shankar.Because at last Shankar becomes complete nirvikari and 100% equal to bap.So their intellect could not understand the difference.when you could not understood the meaning what was written how can you understood the meaning of verses given By bap bhagavan?
I already gave two Murli points which clearly said that shiv enters into Shankar.

Q:- How the question of mixing arise when they do not know that there are two souls in one body? They should have just said - Shankar/dixit is (also) god, is it not? What I mean to say is- like each devotee in Bhaktimarg considers his deity as God, such weak souls should also have considered Shankar/Dixit as God, is it not?]

Because of body consciousness even though it was told by brahmins(purushotham sangam yugi) that shiv and Shankar are separate those who come at last(number) could not able to understand that shiv and Shankar are separate.(Due to lack of soul consciousness practice in Confluence Age).They think that those two are one and the same because Shankar is equal to shiv(Attain 100% nirvikari stage) at last.
so they mixup them and told that they both are one and the same.Their intellect could not understand that.

[mbbhat]

But few people(not PBKs) who has love with (their) body(body consciousness) due to come at last could not understand the difference between Shiv and Shankar. Because at last Shankar becomes complete nirvikari and 100% equal to bap. So their intellect could not understand the difference.

when you could not understood the meaning what was written how can you understood the meaning of verses given By bap bhagavan?

I already gave two Murli points which clearly said that Shiv enters into Shankar.

Because of body consciousness even though it was told by Brahmins(purushotham sangam yugi) that Shiv and Shankar are separate those who come at last(number) could not able to understand that Shiv and Shankar are separate.(Due to lack of soul consciousness practice in Confluence Age).They think that those two are one and the same because Shankar is equal to Shiv(Attain 100% nirvikari stage) at last.

so they mixup them and told that they both are one and the same.Their intellect could not understand that because of their body consciousness.

I think you have not understood the question.

Just think if you like/can:- When they cannot understand the two as different, then how come the mixing arise? That is- When they cannot think of (distinguish) two, where are two (for them) to mix up?

i will improve the question what i had written in the last post to make it more clear.

Q:- How the question of mixing arise when they do not know that there are two souls in one body? They should have just said - Shankar/dixit is (also) god, is it not? What I mean to say is- like each devotee in Bhaktimarg considers his deity as God, such weak souls should also have considered Shankar/Dixit as God and they cannot say shiv = Shankar, is it not? Because they cannot see shiv at all. They just see Shankar as the best/God, is it not? So- like every devotee is attached to his deity (isht_dev), such weak souls also are like attached to Dixit and should have said that dixit/Shankar is (also) God, is it not? ]

Also- even if we accept this, then do PBKs believe it is such weak souls who become cause for this mixing? If yes, then does it imply others (who have realized them as separate = accurately) follow these weak souls blindly (in Bhaktimarg)? The point is- When these weak souls are able to recover their memory of Confluence Age (of previous Kalpa) in the Bhaktimarg of next Kalpa, cannot the real great souls recover their memory in Bhaktimarg and tell them that "Hey, they (shiv and Shankar) are not one and the same, they are separate"?

And, let us agree that such weak souls would not still understand in Bhaktimarg. But, then why these great souls follow such weak souls in Bhaktimarg and accept Shiv and Shankar as same? at least they could have ignored the weak souls, is it not?

[harikrishna]

I think you have not understood the question.

I understood your question very well.You again did not understood the answer.Please read once or twice the answer.Its my request Bhai.

Because of body consciousness even though it was told by Brahmins(purushotham sangam yugi) that Shiv and Shankar are separate those who come at last(number) could not able to understand that Shiv and Shankar are separate.(Due to lack of soul consciousness practice in Confluence Age).They think that those two are one and the same because Shankar is equal to Shiv(Attain 100% nirvikari stage) at last.

The answer says that it is because of purushottama sangamayugi brahmins they do know that there are two souls in one body.But they can not able to understood that as they could not feel any difference between shiv and Shankar as Shankar attain complete nirvikari stage as like shiv bap.So they mix up both and said shiv and Shankar are one and the same.

[mbbhat]

The answer says that it is because of sanganayugi Brahmins they do know that there are two souls in one body.But they can not able to understood that as they could not feel any difference between Shiv and Shankar as Shankar attain complete nirvikari stage as like Shiv bap.So they mix up both and said Shiv and Shankar are one and the same.

OK, so if we think- such weak souls listen to PBKs and understand that there are two souls, but cannot feel them as separate- even then it does not fit. Because - If they feel both as same, then saying they do know does not make sense.
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Something extra:-

How can PBKs realize the difference between the two souls when Shankar becomes Bap saman? If you say- they already know it because of the knowledge. But, still PBKs believe that the yaadgaar of worship of a person happens according to end stage. So- in the end, is it not that PBKs too should recognize the difference? else, they also are likely to mix up shankr and shiv?

The point is- How do PBKs practically realize the difference between two souls? [when dixit is not speaking?] That is- if others cannot recognize the difference due to the stage being bap saman, can PBKs recognize the difference practically at that time?

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OK- in the end, how many ssuch weak souls will see dixit in personal? and to how many such souls, PBKs will give Gyan? What i mean is- are they going to get gyaan by pbk souls physically or just listen to PBKs by TV and see his baap samaan stage also in TV?

[harikrishna]

Dear Bhai

they feel both as same, then saying they do know does not make sense.

They do know because of brahmins of purushottam sangam yug give them knowledge but they could not find any difference in practical form as Shankar attain baap saman stage.So mix up.

mbbhat wrote
when is Shankar not baap samaan?

When Shankar is doing his effort(purushardh) then he is not baap saman.At this time he is called prajapita.

mbbhat wrote
when is Shankar baap samaan?

when Shankar attain complete seed stage by his remembrance,remembrance and remembrance with Father shiv(lagatar Yaad which shown in chitr Shankar in deep meditation always) finally he attain baap saman stage.
The following Murli points distinguish the parts of Shankar before and after.
Shankar(the complete angelic stage) will not be called Prajapita(corporeal effort maker part)(mu 06.09.92)
ShivBaba is subtle similarly Shankar is also subtle(29.9.77)
Bap toh ever pujya hai...vah kabh pujari bante nahi hain.accha phir second number me kahenge Shankar bhi ever pujya hain.(mu 29.8.76)
Shiv Shankar mahadev kahate hain.ab krishn(DL) kaha se aya?unko toh rudr va Shankar nahi kahenge(mu 10.1.93)
Our yagn is avinashi rudhr Gita gnana yagn.Now understand who is rudhr?(The personality who start the yagn)In the above Murli point baba clearly said rudhr hi Shankar.shiv jyoti bindu ko rudhr nahi kahenge.But our yagn name was given avinashi rudra Gita gnan yagn...churn deep all these points.Its now but never to realise.

[mbbhat]

Interestingly, Can good PBKs practically recognize the difference between shiv and Shankar?

Case 1) When Shankar is not Bap saman

Case 2) When Shankar is bap saman.

If we take case 1), they recognize just by knowledge that comes out of the mouth. Those who believe, say they have recognized. That is all. Can PBKs recognize when shiv is speaking through Dixit, When Dixit is speaking? They say- even soul of brahma Baba is also present in dixit. Can they feel the difference among the three souls practically? Can they prove it?

In case 2) How do they recognize? Because at that time, both would be equal. so- it is impossible to recognize there. But, there it is easy to recognize that- "O- now Shankar has become equal to Bap samaan".

So- what is the value of the statement of PBKs saying- "in the end other weak souls fail to recognize"?

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So- I do not feel there is any way to recognize the difference between two souls practically, either for strong souls or weak souls (in the end).
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but, there is a way to recognize the difference before the end period. (but again there is exception)- see below.

In case of brahma Baba, I have heard the experience (from BKs) that during last days of brahma Baba, children could not understand the difference between the two souls. The stage of BBaba was so high that children felt as if it was like ShivBaba who is present in the body through out the day.

so- practical recognition of difference is possible only during earlier days of BBaba (or say dixit, now). In his earlier days, the difference between two souls can be recognized by the stage, but can be just to some extent. Because ShivBaba may hide his power even while being in the body. i think so. so- if ShivBaba does not exposes his power fully while being in the body, then no one can understand who is there in the body , who is speaking through BBaba (hence there is again exception) .

But, of course, when knowledge comes out of his mouth, it is a way to recognize. But, it is not practical way. Because those who have already belief only can recognize the difference (say that they have recognized). There the difference is just change in physical process/action and not realization by the stage. even there, they cannot really recognize. that is- they cannot know which soul is speaking through the body, whether it is soul of shiv or Dixit or BBaba.


So- what do PBKs mean by recognition of difference between the two souls in the end or before that? and how that is going to affect the mixing up of shiv and Shankar?

[harikrishna]

the statement of PBKs saying- "in the end other weak souls fail to recognize".- what value this has?

Last(number) the last does not mean the last time.
The soul at what time it came is not important but the soul which come at last(number) could not able to understand the difference between both and so mix up.

[mbbhat]

Last(number) the last does not mean the last time.
The soul at what time it came is not important but the soul which come at last(number) could not able to understand the difference between both and so mix up.

This is what is questioned. now, do you understand the difference between the two?

Do you understand the difference by stage or just by the knowledge?

If you say- you understand the difference just by listening to the knowledge, then your statement [they (weak souls) do know, but cannot understand] cannot have value at all. Because, there they have just heard the words from PBKs, but did not know at all.

If you believe you have recognized the difference between two souls by their stages, then how and when ?

[mbbhat]

So- what i think is- we can understand Shiv only by the knowledge that comes out of his mouth (provided , our intellect is pure to understand), and practically, more realization of god will occur as our Yoga increases more and more.

So- by knowledge and Yoga only we can realize god.
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but, a person can inspire others by his stage of Yoga which will happen to full extent in the end (we call it revelation of god).

During that time, the person will appear/felt as god (highly divine) for anyone who sees him. And, even visions can occur for others wherever they are.

So- where is the question of "they know the difference, but cannot understand the difference (due to Shankar becoming 100% niraakaari)" - when they cannot understand the difference even now (when shankr is not Bap saman).
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Else- if PBKs say- No one reaches as high as shiv except dixit/Shankar. Hence he is mixed with shiv in Bhaktimarg (mixing can be done even by good souls only or by all souls, because all will give certificate , is it not). There is no need to say- "mixing happens due to not understanding of weak souls". Even good souls can also be part of mixing is it not? (since in Bhaktimarg, the memory need not be accurate).

I think- if PBKs say so- Such a statement will have value.

But, again they need to reply- how is god revealed? If he is going to be revealed by Dixit, why the name shiv shakti is famous? Does the title shakti go to male personality?

[harikrishna]

Else- if PBKs say- No one reaches as high as Shiv except dixit/Shankar. Hence he is mixed with Shiv. and, hence in Bhaktimarg shankr is mixed with Shiv (by good souls only or by all souls, because all will give certificate , is it not). There is no need to say- "mixing happens due to not understanding of weak souls". Even good souls can also be part of mixing is it not? (since in Bhaktimarg, the memory need not be accurate).

Yes,compare to Shankar all are numberwise weak souls.Because they could not attain 100% bap saman stage.Some get 99.9%.some get 98%.So all are numberwar weak souls when we compare to Shankar.
When compare to Shankar all souls are later number to him.Thats why baba has said in Murli
Bap toh ever pujya hai...vah kabh pujari bante nahi hain.accha phir second number me kahenge Shankar bhi ever pujya hain.(mu 29.8.76)

[mbbhat]

Harikrishna wrote:-
Yes, compared to Shankar all are numberwise weak souls.Because they could not attain 100% bap saman stage.Some get 99.9%.some get 98%.So all are numberwar weak souls when we compared to Shankar.

You have not explained fully.

So- do you mean to say- the mixing can happen by any soul in Bhaktimarg since all other souls would be feeling that shankr is the highest and most near to god? So- there is no question of they(weak souls) do know, but fail to understand?

Or do you mean to say- "Everyone is weaker when compared to Shankar, and hence it is due to not being able to understand Shankar fully, they mix him up with shiv"?

Or anything else?

[mbbhat]

Just pointing- about churning of PBKs:-

1)It is the greatest test to recognize the unlimited Father.If it was said directly in the Murli what is the use of test?This is the race of 108. 2)The one who churn and read deeply the Murli points alone recognize the role of Father. Remaining fail to recognise Him.3)Thats why it was told kotom me bhi koyi(BK), unme bhi koyi(PBK).very very few know it. In them also very few recognize His real part. 4)This Murli point said by Shiv Baba to recognize Him.

Kaise pata pade inme bap bhagavan hai? jab gnan dena...

1) OK let us agree. But, see 2)
2) suppose say- some are totally uneducated. How can they churn so many Murli points all together by themselves? They will have to take someone's help. Then, is it as good as following churning of someone else's one, is it not? So- what is that test in practical?
3) So- to become koton may koyi (BK), if one has to get transferred from lowkik world to BKWSU, then to become koyi to koyi (PBK) one has to get (physically) transferred from BKWSU to AIVV, then again to go reach the last step (108)- that is to recognize his real part, does it not mean that there may be need to shift physically from AIVV to some other organization?

4) Now, Dixit does not give gyaan at all. That is, no gyaan comes out of mouth of dixit as a continuous flow which has come out from mouths of DL or Gulzar Dadi. Dixit just reads and explains.

So- how can we say- the churning of even this Murli point done by PBKs is correct? Is their churning only up to that extent?

[arjun]

mbbhat Bhai, nobody is forcing you to accept PBK point of view. Why do you waste your own time and others' time by arguing when you know that it is against the Shrimat to argue? Anyway, it is your life, if you want to argue till the last breath of your life, so be it. But I don't have time for arguements.

I know that you will reply that it is not necessary to reply. But whenever we don't reply, you don't lose even a second to insult us by saying that we don't have answers. It is your such low character that prevents me from discussing with you. You don't treat anyone respectfully. Anyway, it is your part in the drama. Please continue to play.
OGS,
Arjun

[mbbhat]

This query is not a personal one to you. Some other PBKs may reply. And, the query is general- for the readers. In future, some may reply or may not. Even by that, the readers may absorb what they can/need.

It is your such low character that prevents me from discussing with you. You don't treat anyone respectfully. Anyway, it is your part in the drama. Please continue to play.

Is this character of gyaanu tu atmas? So- are gyaani tu atmas hunger of respect? [actually, i have never insulted anyone. You may prove it if you can. You may feel so due to your own wrong expectation. ]In fact, you know how many had insulted me in this forum from the very beginning, but i never complained. You also had insulted me.

[but, only thing is- i do not interact personally with members like many of of you do. I talk just to the point/matter according to which I give importance. so someone may feel so if he is hunger of respect].

If you do not wish to reply, you may so. There is no need to comment on someone that- "you do not give respect, hence i do not like to reply" . But, OK, i have no objection. what i mean is - if that is the reason- then it shows whether you are interested in knowledge or attitude of others.


You say you are on OGS. So- are you with mbbhat in this forum or OGS (On Godly Service)?


Thank you.