BK-PBK.Info - for BKs & PBKs or BKWSU & AIVV Supporters, Children, Students & Disciples
Discussion of ShivBaba's Knowledge & 'Advanced Knowledge', suited for EVERYONE associated with 'PrajaPita Brahma Kumaris Spiritual Godly World University-cum-Hospital'.
Question : What are the visible signs of your having true love for the one Father ?
Answer : If you have true love for the one Father, your love for the old world and the old body will finish. To die alive is a sign of love. Let there be no love for anyone except the Father. Let it remain in your intellect that this is your final birth and that you now have to return home.
There you have it folks. If you come across a BK, they will not show you love.
If your own lokik Father or mother is a BK, they will not show you love.
Your Dadis and Seniors definitely will not show you love. They cannot even show love each other either.
If your friend or colleague is a BK, they will not love you.
If anyone who is connected to the BK family who says they love you, then they don't have true love for their Father.
There are usually many paradoxes in spirituality, but this caps it all : No one in the BK spiritual "family" will love you. They are told not to love anyone else except the Father.
If in doubt, go the centre and read today's Murli. Ask anyone what this means. Listen to the various excuses. Listen very deeply. Afterwards, make a decision whether you want to return to that centre anymore.
Can we find the actual quote "in the Murli" as spoken by Shiva through Brahma, and not this Q & A portion added by the Murli team/editors? I know it is in there because I heard it so many times.
Can we ask Arjun for the Hindi version and translate it for us?
Murli will be uploaded by admin. It is also within the Murli portion.
Note that the meaning of the QA statement is not necessarily wrong. For true enlightenment, there cannot be attachment to any body nor one's own body. However, the choice is yours as to who and how love is defined for you.
By the way, at the end of the Murli it says "At the end, only eight win".
Hi. I agree that some help from a professional BK Hindi-English translator would be necessary.
In many languages, including Hindi, there are several words to describe different forms of love and I would imagine that in this case Baba means more than anything, "attachment" but I will read the relevant Murli later to try and understand from the context. Sometimes he prompts us not to continue feeling love for other deities or gurus, so that would be devotion, like the love mothers have for the child Krishna. I think that whatever is written in the Murlis, as in any scripture, should be taken with a pinch of salt and not literally.
In my books, the way the Holy Spook expresses himself is the same as when humans play games with each other's minds, and I do not like this style. Saying one day something, the next exactly the opposite, like taking it all back. Challenging us? What for? So that the muscles of our minds can become stretched and flexible in trying to figure out what the hell does he mean? Is it a gym? And once again, this vagueness, paradoxes and contradictions, like in politics, suit manipulators.
Often Baba speaks highly about spiritual love, living in the Bk family like milk and sugar, imbibing and expressing sweetness, mercy, benevolence, good feelings, positive visions, which are all expressions of elevated love in vibes and action, not theory, therefore very practical and valuable. On the other end, folks whose heart chakra is shut and dry, can justify themselves and their egocentrism, lack of care and selfishness by bringing up in a fundamentalist manner, points about detachment as a virtue. Maybe their idea of Golden Age is total ice, icicles and snowmen ;).
Weaknesses can often find convenient justifications in the Murlis, depends how you mold them or what you want to make yours and emphasize. Somehow the Spook gives green light to both law and love. Maybe it depends on the mood he's in on that particular day.
From a point of view that has been several times highlighted on this Forum, we could also say that Baba, in Sakar Murlis, could be interpreted as Dada Lekraj and both in those days and now. There are many souls which are happy and ready to worship him and the Dadis, even their portraits and photos. Easier to do that than loving living beings, is not it?
BTW, I am alive and happy. I was in the jungle with no Internet access but I did not forget any of you, forum friends, and a warm welcome to the new ones! :D
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: ex-BK. Interested in historical revisionism, failed predictions and abuse within the BK movement.
Interesting, given another recent topic on Dadi Janki Kripalani's health and dreams of her death, its reads; "King Janak went into the Silver Age. He couldn't become a Sun-dynasty king."
I wish the BK Murli team would use paragraphs or number the lines so that Murlis could be easily cross referenced. What with the re-writing ... this sucks. Its almost as if they want to make them as obscure, and hard to read as possible.
Again, I note that this Murli point is true. For anyone to have 100% true love for the Father, there cannot be any energy or love drawn to or from anything/anyone else. It seems severe, because it's absolute.
This is why it can be very unbelievable for most of us, and there are going to be heaps of different interpretations to justify one's own understanding to suit oneself, but in the end it clearly states "Let there be no love for anyone except the Father".
If anyone want to start defining what "love" means, e.g. Bhakti love, devotional love, spiritual love, physical love, etc then feel free to do so to justify one's own case.
Note that the Father is the Eternal Ocean, so whilst He is able to give true love to every child, only 8 souls will be able to reciprocate this. Hence it is absolute statement.
The Murli in Hindi is up, so Hindi speakers can check the translation, and provide some feedback.
(Footnote : the first post of this thread may have a date of 31July appended and so it seems I am "ahead in time" of this forum :shock: , however the Murli in question was read on the 1 August local time).
It looks like Baba is able to take us all back in time so that we can become timeless (eternal) again, and then we are able only with 100% Yaad to survive world destruction.
And to bring back all the love that we have in all our lives, where it all start from ... the love source himself :D .
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: To exchange views with past and present members of BKWSU and its splinter groups.
tinydot wrote:Can we find the actual quote "in the Murli" as spoken by Shiva through Brahma, and not this Q & A portion added by the Murli team/editors? I know it is in there because I heard it so many times. Can we ask Arjun for the Hindi version and translate it for us?
Om Shanti. I tried to browse through the English as well as Hindi versions of the above Murli published by the BKs. I agree with tinydot that we should rely more on the actual Murli and not on the Q&A portion as it mixes the ideas of the Murli team/Editors.
Although the sentence from the Q&A portion as quoted by sister Bansy is the true translation of the Hindi version, but in the actual Murli the words are slightly different (although it means the same).
The relevant portion in the actual Murli at Page No.1 says:
"You don't have love for anyone in this world, not even for this body."
"Is duniya may koi say pyaar nahee. Is shareeer say bhi pyaar nahee."
aladdin wrote:In many languages, including Hindi, there are several words to describe different forms of love and I would imagine that in this case Baba means more than anything, "attachment"
In the literal sense the above Murli quote does mean what sister Bansy has inferred. But it should not be interpreted in a literal sense because there are many more Murlis which say that one should have love for all the souls of the world while connecting one's intellect with the Father. I agree with aladdin in her interpretation of the word 'love' in the above Murli. It means attachment. And its proof is available in the same Murli on Page No.1&2 as follows:
"You brides should have love for the one Bridegroom and children should have love for the one Father. You have to break your love away from everyone else. Become a destroyer of attachment."
There is another line in the same Murli at Page No.2 which says:
"Don't think that you can remember ShivBaba and also continue to dirty your face at the same time."
The above sentence means that one should not have lustful relationship with anyone. In the same Murli Baba also criticizes some of his children who fight and quarrel with everyone.
"If you don't have love for Shiv Baba, you won't have love for Brahma. Such children will just continue to fight and quarrel with everyone ... Baba has Godly male and female nightingales, parrots, and even some crows who continue to fight and quarrel with everyone."
The above sentence clearly indicates that Baba wants us all to become nightingales who sing songs of love and not crows who fight and quarrel. I will try to quote from other Murlis on this subject later on. Whether all BKs love everyone (including ex-BKs and PBKs) equally or not is another issue.:D
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: I am a Bk and a writer. I have been benefited a lot by the knowledge given in BK institution. I also have materials written totally on logic without BK knowledge. Anyone can get them as attachments for free by email.
As you try to love more people, the detachment also increases:-
1) Consider a person who is very selfish. He does not look after even his family. He is attached just to himself. He thinks of just himself. Actually, such a person will not enjoy in his life. He does not get any love from anybody.
2) If he gives or shares what he has with his family, he is called a better person. So, he forgets himself a little and thinks of the family members. So his family people also love him. He gets MORE love and enjoyment.
3) If the person starts loving society and doing social service, then he will put one part of his time, money and energy into that work. If his family members realize ot consider that he is doing good, they will support him and become more happy. Otherwise, they will comment him, may be directly at him or to their friends and relatives. *So, when a person wants to LOVE more and more people (society), he has to get DETACHed from his family.
4) Consider a soldier. He loves the whole country. He has to be always DETACHed. When a phone call comes, he should be ready to sacrifice his life. So, if you love more people, you have more detachment. All people irrespective of cast and religion love a soldier. A soldier gets more love than others.
5) Baba teaches us to love the whole world, that is all the people. For that one has to get detached from everything. So, more the love is, more is the detachment. Just see, Baba is the one who can love all. He is the one who is always detached. Baba says us to forget our own name and form (body). When one does such a sacrifice, he gets everything (super sensuous joy).
Here what happens is, BKs are purusharthis and other people misunderstand them. Due to weakness and mistakes from both sides, each feel negative of others. But the most important thing is, BKs' hatredness will go on reducing since they have the knowledge and they realize their faults. But if others do not realize this till the ring of final bell, they will repent and hence become devotees and praise these BKs in the form of deities.
6) Without detachment, love is impossible. That is why Baba says, till you consider yourself as soul (get detached from body), you cannot remember (love) Baba. Most important thing is, loving Baba means loving everything. If you love a tree, you should put water into the root and not to the leaves. So, By loving baba, you get capacity to love all.
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: I am an ex-teacher and member of the BKWSU and my interest lies in assisting those who request support on any level I can.
Considering you started this thread, what do you think about the aspects of self love which are missing?
It has been said (by whom I don't recall ??) that in order to love others, one has to love one-self. Do you think, given the teachings and theories within the BKWSU that it is possible for the BK followers to love ones-self? Then surely, we would have to also define exact understandings of what "love" means as this could vary from person to person individually.
For example, some of us may see that being a BK involves many self-abusive processes but that same BK may tell us (and fully believe it) than in order to have love for the self, it is neccessary to master one-self too and that (example only of many possible scenarios ...) getting up for 4am meditation is an act of love for the self and for God whilst a non-BK may suggest that this is crazy, that sleep is an act of love for the self.
Detachment from a problem child (such as that practiced under the auspices of Tough Love for example) may be very different forms of detachment than practiced by the BKWSU members? Is it in fact an exclusive process of detachment allowing one to love or does one (as a BK) have to then detach on every level (which creates a completely 'cold' experience) or only detach from the problems around one? As Mr Green mentions, detachment can certainly create a sense of centredness but then the BKWSU do not encourage accepting love from any other human being, only from God, so is this in fact what love truly is?
Can God only provide love to us or is it one sided and selfish for a BK to think (and assume and feel) that God's love is the only love thats valuable to one's well-being or is this another control issue brought into the teachings to ensure viable student memebership on levels already mentioned in many threads on this forum.
This could perhaps create serious mental and emotional problems for many when they hear the words "I love you" from a fellow human. I could head into the closest BKWSU centre (thought if 'detachment' = 'centredness' does 'detach' also = 'centre'?) ... and offer to hug everyone and waft around saying gentle "I love you's" but if memory serves correctly it won't be long before I get 'corrected' as to the Brahmin way of doing things ... so it may also come down to the inabilty to accept love or understand love that's also under question here.
Do they in fact equate human 'love' with only physical expression and because 'God' is 'non' physical his/her love is the only one worth living for? (If so, beeeg problemos there).
Matthew 35-40 wrote:... and one of them, a lawyer, asked him a question to test him.
‘Teacher, which commandment in the law is the greatest?’
He said to him, '“You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.” This is the greatest and first commandment. And a second is like it: “You shall love your neighbour as yourself.”'
On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.’
