BK-PBK.Info - for BKs & PBKs or BKWSU & AIVV Supporters, Children, Students & Disciples
Discussion of ShivBaba's Knowledge & 'Advanced Knowledge', suited for EVERYONE associated with 'PrajaPita Brahma Kumaris Spiritual Godly World University-cum-Hospital'.
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: I am a Bk and a writer. I have been benefited a lot by the knowledge given in BK institution. I also have materials written totally on logic without BK knowledge. Anyone can get them as attachments for free by email.
fluffy bunny wrote:How many BKs know about the PBKs at all?
I have taken into account of those who know about PBKs. Many BKs know about PBKs. Of course, they might not have gone through pbk literature fully. Because their discrimination power is enough to judge the poison from the smell itself. they do not have ego like mbbhat to waste their time in going to read them.
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: ex-BK. Interested in historical revisionism, failed predictions and abuse within the BK movement.
mbbhat wrote:Majority of BKs belive PBKs are incorrect.
Let us examine how truthful this statement is ...
How many BKs know about the PBKs at all?
How many BKs know about the PBKs in comparison to 5 or 10 years ago before the internet?
How many BKs know or have read *anything* at all about the Advanced Knowledge in order to judge that it is wrong?
How many BKs think independently or question what their leaders tell them?
How often have the BK leaders told their followers to think the PBKs are incorrect?
I'd estimate that in the West 95% of BKs have never heard of the PBKs, and 99.5% of BKs have never studied any of their philosophy but depend on the BKWSU leadership for their opinions of whether it is good or bad. Of course, the BK leaders think it is bad, have hidden the PBKs' existence and engaged on a decades old campaign of misinformation against the PBKs even thought they also have been influenced by it.
We know they have read some of it in private.
However, at the same time 95% of BKs either do not know the whole truth of the development of the BKWSU, or its history and philosophy, and believe in a 95% false version of events taught by the same people; and 99% do not think or question their leaders.
Therefor your statement, "the majority of BKs believe PBKs are incorrect" is not well made.
The "majority" of BKs are objectively misinformed and conditioned to react negatively against the PBKs and, to be honest, only think what they are told to do so.
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: I am a Bk and a writer. I have been benefited a lot by the knowledge given in BK institution. I also have materials written totally on logic without BK knowledge. Anyone can get them as attachments for free by email.
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: I have been associated with Raj Yoga since 1985, and have only quite recently come to learn of the PBKs and this forum, which i find a great place to get deeper insights into all things Gyani, and hear input from many sides. I find this most healthy, stimulating, and informative, and hope this continues for some time to come.
The PBKs have no problem with the BKs, but feel that it is their duty to point out their lack of understanding of much of what has been said in the Murli. BKs for the most part, do not follow Shrimat; and take their lead from body conscious gurus(Dadis), who only have eyes for their beloved Brahma Baba Krishna, even when the Murli says on many occasions, that this is simply inaccurate, and only leads to degradation.
PBKs in general may not have the charming personality of souls like Brahma Baba Krishna, and this is because being the oldest souls of the drama, they have the heaviest karmas; and this is why they are known as the army of monkeys, the most vicious(degraded) of all. But it is these monkeys that become deities, by following the true Father, Ram... not by following the mother, Brahma Baba Krishna; except for the example he set of being being sweet and tolerant, up until his death, in 1969.
"Our own brothers & sisters(BKs) of our own Godly Family are missing out on the attainment of fortune, because of not knowing the Father of Humanity(Prajapita-Ram), the Bestower of Fortune - even though they are his children, and of the Original Family, created through him(Prajapita-Baba Dixit, in his 83rd birth from 1936/7 until 1942, in the very beginning of the Yagya, before Brahma Baba became the official Chariot in 1947/8). And so to awaken such souls who are missing out through whatever right(means) you(PBKs) possess, there is the thought to enable them to have the introduction of the Father (of Humanity-Prajapita-Ram). This is because all of you are the elders(more knowledgeable children) amongst the entire progeny (of Brahmins), and the elder children(PBKs) are always considered to be like Father. The eldest children(PBKs) would therefore have love and mercy for their unknowing younger brothers and sisters(BKs)." [Av 05.12.84]
“We, the Father's children (i.e. those who have recognised Ram ShivBaba) are benevolent; we have to bestow boons (of advance knowledge) upon our brothers and sisters, who, being the children of the blind (i.e. those who haven't recognised Father Shiv, in Prajapita-Ram) have become blind (themselves). It is said that charity begins at home.” [Mu 17.03.63]
"The lock of your(PBK's) intellect is now open (from 1976). Now this is new (advance) knowledge. Baba(Shiva+Prajapita-Ram) is also new and the Knowledge(advance) is also new. That is why this (advance) knowledge cannot be understood so easily. When the time comes, they(BKs) will understand." [Mu 10.10.86]
"Sanyasis etc(BKs), will get this (advance) knowledge only when the end-time comes. This (advance) knowledge will not register in their intellect so soon... only when the end-time of destruction comes, they (BKs) will come and accept. Their part is only in the end. They (BKs) think that all these (clarifications of Gyan through Shankar) are stories... just as you (PBKs) think that Bhakti-marg is stories. They also think that your (advance) Gyan is also imaginative stories. Your tree grows slowly." [Mu 23.06.99]
“The language (of the true) Brahmins(PBKs) is also new. The people of the (BK) world cannot understand your(PBK) language. Even if you just say that God(Father Shiv) has come (in personified form to play the role of Father, in 1976), then they feel surprised; they do not understand. They say that what are you telling! So all your (advance knowledge) matters are new.” [Av 29.10.81]
"Souls of nivritti-marg(the BKs who do not follow the true mother-Father) do not know the beliefs of pravritti-marg (the household path of the true mother-Father - Prajapta Brahma)." [Mu 26.10.99]
"Human beings(BKs) do not know that Ram has come(been revealed to a few Brahmins, in 1976). That too, He will come in an incognito form. Father says, 'Those (Brahmins) who had recognized in the last Kalpa (i.e. 5000 years ago) will only recognize'." [No date]
"Now(from 1976, the beginning of the Purushottam Confluence Age) you (true Brahmin) souls(PBKs or Pandavas), are following the Shrimat of (the true Father) Ram ShivBaba." [Mu 02.03.78]
"Nobody (in the BK Yagya) knows whose memorial this rosary is. They just keep uttering 'Ram-Ram', they keep telling the beads of the rosary. Now you (PBKs) understand, that we are the children of Ram ShivBaba; that is why we keep remembering (Him, from 1976)." [Mu 11.06.08]
"Nobody (in the BK Yagya) knows, when and how (Ram)ShivBaba comes(i.e. is revealed, in 1976). Only you (PBKs) know what the meaning of Shivratri(night of Shiv) is... Now you (PBK) children are studying from the Father(Ram ShivBaba) face to face. You get a feeling inside - we are sitting practically(because the part of Father is being played practically, but in incognito form). Purushottam Sangamyug(the age for becoming the highest amongst humans) also definately has to come (in 1976 - the year of Revelation of the Father). Nobody (in the BK Yagya) knows when and how it comes. You (PBK) children know; so you must feel greatly delighted.” [Mu 19.10.05]
"It is the day and night of the Prajapita Brahma Kumars and Kumaris. This is an unlimited matter (of the Confluence Age). The unlimited Father (Shiv) comes at the unlimited Confluence Age (i.e. in 1976, to play the role of Father, Teacher, Satguru). This is why people speak of Shiv Ratri, the night of Shiva. People(BKs) do not understand what Shiv Ratri is. Apart from you (PBKs who study Advance Knowledge), not a single person knows the importance of Shiv Ratri, because this is the middle period (of the Confluence Age, commencing in 1976). When the night (of Brahma Baba Krishna) comes to an end, and the day begins(i.e. the Confluence Age shooting of this commences, in 1976, when Avyakt Brahma Baba Krishna is present in Shankar's aka Prajapita-Ram's body, to begin studying Advance Knowledge himself, after Shankar has become completely self realised, through 5-6 years of intense study of the Murli, from 1969/70), that is called the most auspicious (Purushottam)Confluence Age... the middle (or meeting in 1976) of the old world (Ravanraj shooting) and the new world (Ramraj shooting)." [Mu 02.04.04]
" Krishna(Brahma Baba) cannot be called spiritual Father (as he is the true elder mother, who remains in subtle Avyakt form, from 1969)." [Mu 28.10.90]
"The limited Father is lokik, unlimited Father of Souls (Shiv) is paarloukik; and this one (Prajapita-Ram) is the Confluence Aged wonderful Father. He is called aloukik. Nobody (in the Brahmin family) remembers Prajapita Brahma(Ram) at all. It does not strike anybody’s intellect that he is our great-great-grandfather. People(Confluence Age Brahmins) utter the words, ‘Aadi-Dev (the first deity), Adam’ ... but it is only for name sake (as they do not realise that it is Prajapita-Ram, not Brahma Baba Krishna, who is Adam - the one who is witnessed by the whole world playing the part of great-great grandfather in practical form at the end).” [Mu 05.09.05]
“Now the Supreme Father Supreme Soul says, ‘leave all the sinful relationships including this body and remember only Me, then you will become pure.’ These are the words of Gita only. It is also an age of Gita. (The true) Gita (or advance knowledge) was sung in the (Purushottam) Confluence Age, only when the destruction (of the old world) had taken place (in 1976, in the mind and intellect of Prajapita-Ram aka Shankar - as per the declaration of 1967, at the foot of the Lakshmi-Narayan picture). Father had taught Rajyog (in the last Kalpa from this time - 1976). The Kingdom (of Ramraj) was established (through Prajapita-Ram). Then it will certainly be established again (this Kalpa). All this is explained(clarified) by the spiritual Father (Prajapita-Ram, from 1976), isn’t it? O.K. - He(Shiv) may not have come in this body (of Brahma Baba Krishna to play the role of spiritual Father), he may have come in any other body also (in order to do this) . But (either way) Father(Shiv Himself) gives the explanation (or clarification of these matters, from 1976) isn’t it? We do not utter his name. We only say – Father says, ‘Remember Me (in the body of the permanent Chariot, Prajapita-Ram - as this is true Raj Yoga)... then you will become pure and come to Me.” [Mu 25.11.05]
“This(1976) is a special year that has been publicized as the year of Revelation (of the Father)... it will happen according to the drama (and) this is fine; but someone does become an instrument. Just as there was the part of the establishment (of the Brahmin Religion) in the drama (in the beginning); but Brahma(Baba Krishna) became an instrument (in 1947/8), didn’t he? He displayed courage, came practically, became an instrument, only then did it happen (before 1947/8, the Brahmin Religion did not exist, only Om Mandali - there was no BKIVV). Just as Brahma(Baba Krishna) became an instrument in the corporeal form for the establishment (of the Brahmin Religion), Brahma(Baba Krishna then) became Avyakt (took on a subtle body, in 1969). Now (in 1976), who is the one in the corporeal form to cause the destruction (Shankar aka Prajapita-Ram is known to be the one through whom destruction takes place)?” [Av 04.02.76]
"Brahma(Baba Krishna) is not the Creator of Heaven. Only the Incorporeal Supreme Soul (Shiv) comes and creates Heaven(Ramraj), through Prajapita Brahma(Ram)." [Mu 02.12.03]
"Brahma(Baba Krishna) who has ascended to the Subtle Regions, cannot be called Prajapita - Creation is done in the Corporeal World, not in the Subtle Regions. So the creator Prajapita, has to be in the Corporeal World (until the end)." [Mu 05.11.92]
"Prajapita Brahma(Ram) will be here (in corporeal form) only. His(Brahma Baba Krishna's) last birth is Lekhraj. He cannot become (the true) Prajapita (as he loses many years of corporeal life whilst playing the subtle Avyakt role)." [Mu 21.08.73]
Krishna(Brahma Baba) will not be called Prajapita Brahma(Ram); will a (soul with a) child(like intellect) be called a Father(creator)? Yes, Brahma(Baba Dada Lekhraj) becomes Sri Krishna (of the Golden Age)... (but) this being the Confluence Age, they(the Brahmins of the Confluence Age) have made a big mistake (in believing Brahma Baba Krishna is the true alokik Father, Prajapita Brahma)." [Mu 12.05.63]
"Highest Father should enter in the highest person (Prajapita-Ram, to play the role of creator Father). People(BKs) think that Shri Krishna(Pitashri Brahma Baba) is the highest." [Mu 11.02.69]
"It is sung constantly to follow the mother (Brahma Baba Krishna in your physical actions - i.e be very sweet and tolerant) and the Father (Prajapita-Ram aka Shankar), in becoming bodiless-incorporeal (whilst remaining in your body - an angel). You have to show the right path to every soul. Now it is your final 84th birth. You have the aim object of becoming a deity (Narayan, in this very birth - not the next one). By looking at the image of (Avyakt)Krishna(Brahma Baba), you cannot remember Me (in the form of Father played through Shankar aka Prajapita-Ram, from 1976). You must not take any support of any images. You have to even forget your own image-body; consider yourself as a soul. You are all beloved of One Father. Father(Shiv) says, keep remembering Me (in the body of Prajapita-Shankar). Let your stage at the end be such that, you are going towards your Father(Ram ShivBaba or Shiv+Prajapita-Ram) leaving this old world (and thoughts of Brahma Baba Krishna's deceased form behind). Father makes you understand, Remember Me alone (in my permanent Chariot - Prajapita-Shankar)." [Mu 21.02.11]
"Those children who vote for (Ram)ShivBaba(Shiv+Prajapita-Ram) are preet-buddhi(co-operative-loving deities or Pandavas of the Confluence Age Ramraj community), and those children(BKs) who vote for Krishna(Brahma Baba) are vipreet-buddhi(opposing demons/devils or Kauravas of the Confluence Age Ravanraj community)." [Mu 13.04.85]
"The pictureless (Father Shiv) should be remembered along with the picture(corporeal Prajapita Brahma aka Ram aka Shankar), then you will become virtuous. But if you remember only the picture and the role (of the Chariot), then you will remember only the role. Hence, along with the pictureless (Incorporeal Father Shiv), the picture(corporeal Prajapita Brahma) and his role should be remembered. (Please note, that Brahma Baba's corporeal form was no longer in existence in 1970, when this Avyakt Vani was narrated... and the word 'picture' does not relate to his actual picture either, as Baba has told us not to remember or keep any pictures of Brahma Baba, otherwise we shall become sinful)." [Av 18.01.70]
"Always think that it is ShivBaba who is speaking. Do not keep even his(Brahma Baba's) photo. This Chariot has been taken on loan (temporarily)." [Mu 21.07.05]
"I take the support of this one (Brahma Baba Krishna) for a temporary period. I only enter this one for a short time(1947/8 to 1968/9). This one is an old shoe. When someone's wife dies, he says the old boot's gone! I'll now get a new (body - Prajapita Brahma - the permanent Chariot of Father Shiv, whom he first enters, in 1969)." [Mu 01.06.99]
"Father(Shiv) comes in the (Purushottam) Confluence Age (commencing in 1976, to play the role of Father), stays in him(Prajapita Brahma, the permanent Chariot) for 50-60 years(Brahma Baba Krishna was only the temporary Chariot, between 1947/8 and 1968/9 - 21/22 years), and transforms him." [Av 26.11.72, 29.11.77]
"Baba(Shiv) doesn’t stay in him(Brahma Baba Krishna) always(i.e. throughout the Confluence Age). Yes, He has a permanent Chariot(mukarrar rath - Prajapita-Ram). He is called the Chariot of Hussein(The Beautiful One)." [Mu 15.08.72]
"This Chariot (Prajapita Brahma, aka Ram) or throne of Akalmoort (the immortal embodied one), is especially permanent (the mukarrar rath)." [Mu 08.08.78]
“When the children ask for the photo of Baba, then Baba understands that they are completely ignorant. Arey, ShivBaba asks you to remember only Him. Then what will you do with this picture? The traditions of Bhaktimarg (path of worship) cannot continue in the gyanmarg (path of knowledge). Never ask for a photo.” [Mu 04.11.79]
"There is no need to keep photos of Brahma(Baba)." [Mu 08.02.69]
“If you remember this Brahma(Baba), then you will become sinful (as he was not complete at death).” [Mu 28.01.84]
"Not that Mama and Baba(Radhe & Krishna) have become complete(karmateet). The complete stage will be achieved (by both of them) only in the end. Presently nobody can call himself complete." [Mu 14.11.78]
I could go on and on with this, but i think the point has been made.
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: I am a Bk and a writer. I have been benefited a lot by the knowledge given in BK institution. I also have materials written totally on logic without BK knowledge. Anyone can get them as attachments for free by email.
Roy wrote:1)The PBKs have no problem with the BKs, but feel that it is their duty to point out their lack of understanding of much of what has been said in the Murli. BKs for the most part, do not follow Shrimat; and take their lead from body conscious gurus(Dadis), who only have eyes for their beloved Brahma Baba Krishna, even when the Murli says on many occasions, that this is simply inaccurate, and only leads to degradation.
2)I could go on and on with this, but i think the point has been made.
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1) Do PBKs have also duty to admit that many highly significant points on which their philosophy is based- have great errors, their own god Father has followed them blindly or purposely mis interpreted.
PBKs do not have independent churning capacity. They just follow human guru (Dixit) who also cannot speak any truth by himself and just copies Murlis from BKWSU and explains by his own manmath, who have eyes only for impure bodily guru, even many Murli says so many occasions, that this is simply inaccurate, and only leads to more than degradation.
2) Same to you/PBKs.
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Now, arjun soul may certify whether the last post of roy soul is a useful lecture, or big waste lecture or big best lecture.
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It is unfortunate that- PBKs do not know how to go. This topic is "questions to BKs" - and not lecture to BKs or advertisement of PBKs.
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: I have been associated with Raj Yoga since 1985, and have only quite recently come to learn of the PBKs and this forum, which i find a great place to get deeper insights into all things Gyani, and hear input from many sides. I find this most healthy, stimulating, and informative, and hope this continues for some time to come.
mbbhat wrote: Do PBKs have also duty to admit that many highly significant points on which their philosophy is based- have great errors, their own god Father has followed them blindly or purposely mis interpreted.
If this is the case, yes... but i haven't as yet seen you make a valid case regarding any points, that imo, disproves the interpretations of Gyan associated with advance knowledge. You think you have, but that is simply your opinion. My opinion is, that you haven't. You like other souls, challenge AK with the odd isolated point, that may appear to back up your theories... But this is why i like to quote several points at a time, that support one another, and give a more complete picture. Any point in isolation is more open to a distorted interpretation, than when it is backed up by other points, that support and clarify its true meaning.
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: I am a Bk and a writer. I have been benefited a lot by the knowledge given in BK institution. I also have materials written totally on logic without BK knowledge. Anyone can get them as attachments for free by email.
[quote ] Roy soul wrote:- If this is the case, yes... but i haven't as yet seen you make a valid case regarding any points, that imo, disproves the interpretations of Gyan associated with Advanced Knowledge. You think you have, but that is simply your opinion. My opinion is, that you haven't. You like other souls, challenge AK with the odd isolated point, that may appear to back up your theories... But this is why i like to quote several points at a time, that support one another, and give a more complete picture. Any point in isolation is more open to a distorted interpretation, than when it is backed up by other points, that support and clarify its true meaning [/quote]
Then I should say- you are blind or not accepting. I have already shown one to you.
Simplest of simple typing errors have gone unnoticed by your god Father here. i have supplied with scanned copies of Murlis - a few of them.
You/PBKs deliberately or mistakenly removed some words in the Murli to make the meaning difference.
You may ask your beloved Arjun soul for them.
It is unfortunate that you do not know Hindi (if you do not know). Hence the scanned copy would be like a mirror to a blind person.
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Happy to know that- you do not accept this truth.
More you argue or deny on this more happy i would be. It will just expose intellects of PBKs .
---------- FB soul now still may certify that (even after mbbhat has provided proof how God Father of PBKs failed to recognize errors and is following blindly ) - PBKs are still correct or
those mistakes are due to imperfect BKWSU.
and question and accuse - "Why not BKs should listen to PBKs?"- to seek truth(!).- and say- you do not discuss, you just throw stones, etc.
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Arjun soul can give his opinion about Roy soul how much he can understand or has understood.
Of course, now I can understand Arjun soul's statement (that he had given earlier) - "Roy soul is not a pukka pbk, you are mis using his innocence(something like that)-
But, this is a wonderful experience and a proof that- there are such PBKs who can list hundreds of Murli points one after the other, but cannot understand a, b, c, ds of the Murli points.
In BKWSU, there are such fools, but they then will not try to give knowledge to others so boldly. they will just come to class and leave. (mostly not regularly).
But, roy soul had posted more than 900 here! advanced knowledge people, means their intellect should be strong enough, else what they have understood?
It is just wonderful and wonderful.
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Dear Roy soul,
You are a complete soul. So- do not worry or take serious about what i have written. Just keep flying and flying in remembrance of most beloved ShivBaba however you believe or feel.
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: To exchange views with past and present members of BKWSU and its splinter groups.
Roy Bhai,
There is no use explaining to mbbhat Bhai because he quarrels and argues like a small child. I feel it is a sheer wastage of time. But you have a lot more patience than me. So, if you wish to engage in discussions with this child of ShivBaba, I wish you good luck. :D
OGS,
Arjun
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: I have been associated with Raj Yoga since 1985, and have only quite recently come to learn of the PBKs and this forum, which i find a great place to get deeper insights into all things Gyani, and hear input from many sides. I find this most healthy, stimulating, and informative, and hope this continues for some time to come.
mbbhat wrote:Then I should say- you are blind or not accepting. I have already shown one to you.
Yes, i remember you pointed out an error in one of my Murli point quotes, which is a point i continue to use, but now in a more accurate form thanks to your comments for which i am grateful. This is the point in question...
"We Brahma Kumars-Kumaris are in corporeal (form), so Prajapita Brahma(Ram) is also in corporeal (form, for as long as we remain so)." [Mu 03.11.87]
There are other Murli points that back-up this interpretation, which is what i mean by saying that combining points together, creates a more powerful picture. It may be true that some points quoted by PBKs, are not totally as per the original narration by ShivBaba... but 99 times out of 100, there is no distortion of the actual meaning imo; just a blurring between the original text, and the interpretation added to the point, such as with the point above. This is not ideal of course, but most souls will be happy to accept the accurate point, and in future add the interpretation in brackets, as it rightly should be. But to think that by revealing that PBKs sometimes get points wrong, is the same as proving their philosophy is wrong is a little naive and unrealistic imo. It's hardly the same as what the BK leadership do by cutting away huge chunks of Murlis, so that the children cannot see points about Shankar, or Prajapita, or make it seem as if Father Shiv enters virgin sisters.
I hope you continue to point out any errors, as i don't wish to quote points inaccurately. But on other occasions you have quoted (some great) points and given an interpretation of them, that i believe is totally wrong... so we both have the same opinion of each others interpretations.:D
mbbhat wrote:Of course, now I can understand Arjun soul's statement (that he had given earlier) - "Roy soul is not a pukka pbk, you are mis using his innocence(something like that)-
If Arjun Bhai believes my comments are not reflective of the official up-to-date understanding of AK; he is more than likely to say so, as he only wishes that an accurate reflection of AK is presented. He also knows i will have no problem with this, as although i enjoy testing my understanding by discussing points of Gyan, i know i still have much to learn.
mbbhat wrote:You are a complete soul. So- do not worry or take serious about what i have written. Just keep flying and flying in remembrance of most beloved ShivBaba however you believe or feel.
Well thanks Bhai, i know you mean that with all sincerity! :D
arjun wrote:There is no use explaining to mbbhat Bhai because he quarrels and argues like a small child. I feel it is a sheer wastage of time. But you have a lot more patience than me. So, if you wish to engage in discussions with this child of ShivBaba, I wish you good luck.
Thanks Bhai, you have had a lot more dealings with mbbhat Bhai than myself... but he has not quite got me to the point, where i feel there is simply no point in saying any more... but i feel that point may soon be reached, if the discussions continue to proceed in this way.
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: ex-BK. Interested in historical revisionism, failed predictions and abuse within the BK movement.
mbbhat wrote:... proof that- there are such PBKs who can list hundreds of Murli points one after the other, but cannot understand a, b, c, ds of the Murli points.
Again, as a complete soul, I have to correct you ...
There is no such thing as "understanding" in the Brahma Kumarism. There is only acceptance ... and it is close to blind faith (Bhakti).
There is almost basically nothing to understand.
Brahma Kumaris leaders ... one cannot truly call them teachers ... primary activity is to ensure followers to accept and conform to whatever version of the Knowledge they are selling this year.
The highest social rewards within Brahma Kumarism are given to those who except it and their leaders without questioning (total blind faith) ... which is contradictory to what the Murlis say (or at least said before the BKs changed).
Mostly, this is done in a primary school manner ... using the technique of 'acceptance by repetition' (repeating and repeating and repeating but with no proof or explanation) ... but, if that fails, in some cases it is achieve through punishment and the threat of or actual expulsion (outcasting). This is, of course, what happened to Virendra Dev Dixit. He dared question the limits of BK leaders' understanding and so they chucked him out. Most BKs live within those limits for fear of also being forced out or accused.
Since the very beginning ... when their knowledge was almost entirely false and wrong ... the BKs have practised feeling superior to all others ... even when they were entirely wrong. This practise allows them to believe and act they correct, even when they are wrong (ego of knowledge?). Unfortunately, believing and acting one is correct does not actually make one correct.
Question: In the early days, the divine messages said "only [they] were self-realised", when the majority of Om Mandli followers believed in entirely false ideas (no Shiva, no bindi, God Lekhraj Kirpalani etc) ... so who were "they" that were self-realised?
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: I am a Bk and a writer. I have been benefited a lot by the knowledge given in BK institution. I also have materials written totally on logic without BK knowledge. Anyone can get them as attachments for free by email.
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: I have been associated with Raj Yoga since 1985, and have only quite recently come to learn of the PBKs and this forum, which i find a great place to get deeper insights into all things Gyani, and hear input from many sides. I find this most healthy, stimulating, and informative, and hope this continues for some time to come.
fluffy bunny wrote:In the early days, the divine messages said "only [they] were self-realised", when the majority of Om Mandli followers believed in entirely false ideas (no Shiva, no bindi, God Lekhraj Kirpalani etc) ... so who were "they" that were self-realised?
Dear Fluffy Bhai, this is an interesting question. Can you point me in the right direction as to where to find this particular quote or quotes?
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: I am a Bk and a writer. I have been benefited a lot by the knowledge given in BK institution. I also have materials written totally on logic without BK knowledge. Anyone can get them as attachments for free by email.
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I would be interested to know the opinion of the BK regarding the points that the revelation, the birth of the Father and the children takes place simultaneously and what is the meaning of Trimurti Shivjayanti.
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sita wrote:I would be interested to know the opinion of the BK regarding the points that the 1)revelation, 2)the birth of the Father and the children takes place simultaneously and what is the meaning of 3)Trimurti Shivjayanti.
1)In Revelation - there are two steps, - one saying/starting, another experiencing/ending. Like for example, Baba's incarnation happened in 1936, but the final revelation would be in the end when all will accept. Regarding the final revelation how it would be- a file collecting Murli points is attached. [See the first file attached].
2)Father gives his introduction as well as children's introduction together to children. In the beginning, nearly 400 children also got birth almost together with the Father. Father will get revealed in front of children, is it not? If there are no children, how can ShivBaba take birth? (what is the meaning of it? Father comes in a child's body and speaks to children. This is the only way of Father taking birth, and children also should take birth = realize themselves - to make Father's birth practical = meaningful). In lowkik, a person first takes birth, grows, then marries then creates children. But here, as soon as baba incarnates, he speaks to children and even children take birth(realize themselves too or/and feel Father too).
3)In teaching, there are two levels. One showing the plan(map, goal), another- actually moving towards it. So, Baba showed the plan, gave idea) about goal/Trimurti in 1936 itself, as soon as he incarnated. That is why it is Trimurti Shiv Jayanti(Shiv with his Chariot, property/goal). Without goal, for what teacher is? But, actual birth of them will happen at their own time. First Brahma, then Shankar, then Vishnu (creation, destruction, then sustenance)
You may search for Trimurti, Subtle Region in this topic and read them. For example, Posts no- 3, 24, 50, 58, etc. I will edit them in future to make it better. But, it will take time. Read post 50 specifically. Then the other posts.
pratyakshata.docx