Questions for BKs

[sita]

What is the position of the BKs about the point that Mama has taken birth in Nepal?

[shivsena]

A sincere query to all BKs.

As per BKWSU, Paramatma Father Shivbindi descends in the body of Lekhraj Kirpalani-Brahma on a fixed date every Kalpa in the year 1936-37 to transform the world.....but we BKs celebrate Mahashivratri (Shiv-jayanti) on changing dates of Bhakti-marg every year.

Why eye-witness senior BKs do not remember the date of avataran of Father Shiv in 1936-37 and celebrate Mahashivratri on that day to differentiate Gyan-marg from Bhakti-marg.

Can any bk please explain the above.

[shivsena]

A sincere query to all BKs.
Today's Murli 10-3-16 says : " ब्रह्मा और विष्णु का कनेक्शन क्या है, वह भी जानते हो। वे दिखाते हैं कि विष्णु की नाभी से ब्रह्मा निकला। ब्रह्मा ही जाकर विष्णु बनते हैं। ... विष्णु से ब्रह्मा बनने में 5 हजार वर्ष लगा।"

I have not understood the connection between Brahma and Vishnu. ....how Vishnu becomes Brahma in 5000 years ??
Vishnu is 2 souls in Satyug [ LN combined ] and Brahma is one soul (Lekhraj Kirpalani) at the end of Kaliyug (Sangamyug)....how 2-souls in Satyug become 1-soul in Sangamyug ??? ... i have been asking this query to senior BKs but no logical answer is given.

... Can any bk please explain this connection between Brahma and Vishnu.

[mbbhat]

It is said that the old points will not come into use when the new points emerge. Like previously there used to be understanding about the soul being like a thumb, when the new point about the star emerged, the old point was no more into use. But in the Avyakt Vanis the requisite of Brahma for having a connection with ShivBaba has not been overruled, but even underlined in many Avyakt Vanis.

Who has objected it? That is why BKs clearly use photos of B Baba for service even now. Visions of Brahma happen even now. Avyakt Murli points praise lots about B baba. Avyakt Murlis points do not stress about need of corporeal Brahma after 1969.

What is the position of the BKs about the point that Mama has taken birth in Nepal?

Yet to know fully, as it is not said explicitly in Murlis. But, Murli point says in Subtle Region, there would be practically just Brahma alone.- http://www.brahmakumarisforum.net/chat/ ... LAA#p15646 Hence I believe she has taken birth. But, still no much idea. So, at present, just 50-50.

[shivsena]

Food for thought for all BKs.

Murlis frequently say : "Manushya se Devta karat naa lagii vaar" ("It takes one second to transform Humans to Deities")
Most senior BKs do not have nischay on above Baba's mahavakya and keep on teaching their own philosophy that we have to leave this body and take a new Deity-body in the next birth in Satyug...but they never tell us how the 9,16,108 Deities are going to get a pure body when their souls descend from Paramdham in Satyug.

Murli says: "Bap hai Supreme surgeon and sabse badaa Jadugar" ....So why cant the Sarva-shakti-vaan Jadugar-surgeon change this impure body in pure body in one second, when a worldly magician on stage can change a tiger into a girl in one second and a plastic surgeon can change the face of patients.!!

Also Murli says: "Devi-swaraj hai humara janam-siddh adhikaar."
So why do BKs not believe that we must have our Devi-swaraj in this very Ishwariya birth, and not in the next birth in Satyug.

Baba says that there are 2-types of children: "Nischay-buddhi and Anischay-buddhi." ...the above statements are going to decide who is who in this Brahmin-family.....It is very easy to say "Baba--Baba-Baba"...but only those who believe in Baba's mahavakyas 100% and experience it (anubhav karna) will be true nischay buddhi children and will inherit rajayee, while the rest(who just listen and do not churn) will fall in the category of anischay-buddhi children....this is what i have been touched at Amrit Vela by BapDada and i am sharing it with my soul brothers. ( as per Av-Vani 28-4-74 : "Apas mei Gyan ki charcha karna yeh toh Brahmano ka kartavya hai.")

Views of brothers are awaited.

1aa-truth is available to those who have the power to question.jpg (34.09 KiB) Viewed 9367 times

[mbbhat]

but they never tell us how the 9,16,108 Deities are going to get a pure body when their souls descend from Paramdham in Satyug.

Baba has said- You will come to know all these things as you gallop or when it is required. These have nothing to do with the effort. BTW- a thought on this is put here- Post No. 182 - http://www.brahmakumarisforum.net/chat/ ... 066#p14981

Murli says: "Bap hai Supreme surgeon and sabse badaa Jadugar" ....So why cant the Sarva-shakti-vaan Jadugar-surgeon change this impure body in pure body in one second, when a worldly magician on stage can change a tiger into a girl in one second and a plastic surgeon can change the face of patients.!!

http://www.brahmakumarisforum.net/chat/ ... 671#p15671

[shivsena]

To all BKs.

Today's Murli 21-3-16 says: " बाप बिगर दादे का वर्सा मिल नहीं सकता।"
Who is Bap and who is Dada and what is Dada's varsa in the above point.?

Also Murlis frequently say: "Bap aur varse ko Yaad karo."
Who is Bap and what is varsa in the above point.??

Can any bk please explain.

[sita]

1. It is said that no one can know when Shiv comes and goes, he comes on his own and suddenly, but with the coming in the Gulzar Dadi there is a programm fixed in advance. Is there a contradiction in that or not?

2. It is said that Bap and Dada are always combined. For the BKs Bap means the Supreme Soul the point of light and Dada means Brahma Baba, who is now in the Subtle Region. How and where are Bap and Dada always combined, when it is said that "I do not come in the Subtle Region dweller"?

[shivsena]

Baba has said- You will come to know all these things as you gallop or when it is required. These have nothing to do with the effort.

Do You mean to say that as the intellect gallops(becomes mature), the whole interpretation-understanding of Murli-Vanis could change and a new knowledge will be invented....this old bk-Gyan will become redundant !!!

[mbbhat]

1. It is said that no one can know when Shiv comes and goes, he comes on his own and suddenly, but with the coming in the Gulzar Dadi there is a program fixed in advance. Is there a contradiction in that or not?

It is not just Shiv coming. Both Shiv and Brahma are coming. It is also said- Old points does not come in use. - Post No. 37- http://www.brahmakumarisforum.net/chat/ ... anaa#p4089

2. It is said that Bap and Dada are always combined. For the BKs Bap means the Supreme Soul the point of light and Dada means Brahma Baba who is now in the Subtle Region. How and where are Bap and Dada always combined, when it is said that "I do not come in the Subtle Region dweller"?

Lowkik people believe BVS reside in Subtle Region- somewhere above.

SM 12-6-72(1):- Hum niraakaar Baap ke bachche hain. Unkey sammukh baithey hain. PBKKyaan hain. PRAJAPITA AKSHAR NA DAALNEY SE MANUSHY MOONJHTE HAIN. SAMAJHTEY HAIN Brahma TO SOOKSHMVATANVAASI DEVTAA HAI. VAH PHIR YAHAAN KAHAAN SE AAYAA? Kahte hain Brahma devtaayaa namaha, Shankar devtaayaa namaha. -189

=... If you do not put word Prajapita, people will get confused. They think Brahma as deity in Subtle Region. How he came here? ...

15)SM 26-10-83(1):- ShivBaba samjhaate hain bachchon ko is Brahma ke rath dwara. ... Mujhe apna rath nahin. Mujhe rath toh zaroor chaahiye. Jaise tum harek atma ko apna2 rath hai na. BVS ko bhi sookshm sharir hai na. ...............To Baap kahte hain main aavoon toh kaise? Kiske sharir may avoon? Pahley2 toh mujhe Prajapita chaahiye. SOOKSHMVATANVAASI PRAJAPITA KO YAHAAN KAISE LE AA SAKTAA? VAH TOH FARISTA HAI NA. UNKO PATIT DUNIYAA MAY LE AAVOON, YE TOH DOSH HO JAAYE. KAHENGE MAINEY KYAA GUNAAH KIYAA. Baap samjhaate hain badi ramaneek baatein hain. Samjhegaa vo hi jo baap kaa banaa hogaa. Ghadi2 baap ko yad kartaa rahega. Baap kahte hain main aataa hun, jab dharti par paap badh jaataa hai. Kaliyug may manushy kitney paap karte hain. Bhrashthaachaar hai. Bandar misal ek do ko daraate rahte hain. Baath math poocho. Toh bap poochte hain, bachche, bataavo- main aavoon, toh kis tan may aavoon. MUJHE CHAAHIYE BHI VRUDDH ANUBHAVI RATH.

More mu point are given from post No. 25 to 28 - http://www.brahmakumarisforum.net/chat/ ... ushy#p4080 .

Also- 121a) - http://www.brahmakumarisforum.net/chat/ ... orn#p12446

Also see post by mbbhat put on 16th November, 2015 - viewtopic.php?f=9&t=2009&p=50364&hilit= ... LAA#p50364

Also- flaw No. 100 - viewtopic.php?f=39&t=2099&p=50800&hilit ... hma#p50800

Better take all the Murli points, not isolated.

Have PBKs ever thought "Why Baba had said I do not come in the Subtle Region dweller?" Any problem?

[mbbhat]

Do You mean to say that as the intellect gallops(becomes mature), the whole interpretation-understanding of Murli-Vanis could change and a new knowledge will be invented....this old bk-Gyan will become redundant !!!

Few Mu Points:-

1) SM 15-6-85(2):- ACHCHEE REETI BAAP KI Yaad MAY RAH SERVICE KARENGE TOH AAGE CHAL TUMKO SAAKSHAATKAR BHI HOTE RAHENGE. -88 [Yaad, vision]
= If you do service while being in the Father’s ACCURATE Remembrance, then as you progress, you will also get visions.

2) Not in exact words- but similar to like this- "Jitnaa nazdeek aate jaayenge, utnaa aape hee samajhthay jaayenge."
= The closer you come (to your soul-conscious stage) to that EXTENT you will AUTOMATICALLY understand.

3)"Jab tumhaaree kat utar jaatee hai, toh direct Baap se padhenge" = When your rust (of body-consciousness) is removed, you will study DIRECTLY from the Father (as a soul to Supreme Soul).

[So, I believe- as we gallop, automatically the intellect will CATCH right things and get extra points, and TOUCHINGS - and dependency on any CORPOREAL human form reduces; and one can understand Murlis just by reading himself/herself- later dependency on Murlis also will reduce, as there would be a strong connection with ShivBaba (as a soul to Supreme Soul).]

[sita]

Baba has said why he does not come in the Subtle Region dweller, it is because he comes in the Sakar.

Please, note this is a topic about questions to BKs. This is where they answer questions asked to them. Please avoid mentioning the PBKs.

You have adopted the habit of quoting Murli points, which may be on the topic, but not to the point. You avoid answering. Baba has clearly said many times in the Murli, I do not come in the Subtle Region dweller. Yet he has said that Bap and Dada are always combined. I repeat the question, so that it becomes obvious you have not answered it. Or do you dismiss the point about not coming in the Subtle Region dweller.

Are you satisfied with the answer you have given to the other question? You mean that it is an old point that it is not known when Shiv comes. Now it is known? How do you decide which old point will come into use and which not, or is it that you can say that old points will not come into use, every time you cannot give a reply.

Another question is there, that how does Shiv come to know about the program of his coming. The trance messengers reach only as far as the Subtle Region, they do not reach to Paramdham, but even if they do reach, how would they communicate there, where there is no thought, no sound, no movement, and souls are like non-living. If Shiv does not come there in the Subtle Region dweller, how does Shiv come to know about the program that is fixed for his coming, how is he communicated that program.

[mbbhat]

Post No. 02:-

Continuation:- Six points are given in the previous reply. Now, adding few more.

7) 7-9-77(2):- Pahley toh baap ka parichay dena hai. Bhal vah jyotirlingam hi samjhe. Deep baath baad may samjhaani hoti hai. Phir poochnaa hota hai, atma ka roop kyaa hai? Yah toh kahte hain bhrukuti ke beech may chamaktaa hai….. To zaroor choti hogi. Badaa ling to yahaan baith bhi na sake. Fodaa nikal aaye. Pahley toh baap aur bachchon kaa sambandh buddhi may bithaanaa hai. Vah hai behad ka Baap. Ab Brahma kahaan se aataa hai? Baap aakar inko adopt karte hain arthaath inmey pravesh karte hain.

= First, introduction of Father should be given. OK, initially let them believe/assume God to be jyotirlingam itself . Deep matters are taught later. Then ti should be asked....

See this Murli is dated 1977, so mostly would be of 1967. Even on that date, Baba says- it is OK if we give introduction of God as a jyoti-LING. Why?

8)SM 27-3-76(1, 2):- Oonch te oonch Baap hai sab aatmaavon kaa baap. Phir hai sookshmvatan. Yah hai sthoolvatan. Sookshmvatan may sirf BVS rahte hain. UNKI DOOSRI KOYI HISTORY, GEOGRAPHY NAHIN HAIN. Yah theen(3) tabkey hain. God is one. Unki rachnaa bhi ek hai. -128-, 129

Baba says- there is no another history and geography of BVS. Why? You may churn and write your views for these eight points.

[sita]

No one gives message for Shiv to come on this earth for the first time, because he does not come on being invoked. He comes on his own, when it is his time, not even a second less or more, and people don't know when it is his time.

I don't think it makes any difference if there are two souls or more coming. One of them is Shiv. He does not come on being invoked.

So where are Bap and Dada always combined?


= RESPONSE =

Above issues have already been adequately clarified earlier -
View links - viewtopic.php?f=40&t=2642#p47764
viewtopic.php?f=40&t=2642#p47770
and
viewtopic.php?f=39&t=2099&p=51034&hilit=moment#p51034
viewtopic.php?f=40&t=1217&p=47984&hilit=moment#p47984

Concerned viewers should study same properly. However, those whose intellects have been INVERTED with the REVERSED advanced knowledge, and who choose to arrogantly hold on to their distorted views, CANNOT be expected to appreciate the TRUTH in above clarifications, LEAVE ALONE ACCEPT THEM; and it cannot be considered to be their personal fault, since same is in accordance with their designated roles within Drama. Hence, it is considered that it would be ABSOLUTELY FUTILE to continue to discuss these issues with such specific souls. Others who have genuine queries are always welcome to pose questions, which are relevant to the clarifications provided in above links.

[mbbhat]

# Post No. 03)

no one gives message for Shiv to come on this earth for the first time, because he does not come on being invoked. He comes on his own, when it is his time, not even a second less or more, and people don't know when it is his time.

1)What I had asked was, you said (quoted the Murli points just LITERALLY) - there would be no thoughts in Paramdham- as if- no communication or touchings can happen there. So- who or what MAKES Shiv to come down? - as you believe (or imply the Murli points, again, just LITERALLY) all the souls would be inert in Paramdham.

2)Also- you did not REPLY to the question- how OTHER SOULS too come DOWN automatically FROM Paramdham. As you believe (JUST QUOTE LITERALLY THE Murli POINT) "A HUMAN SOUL CAN BE INVOKED". So- as per your own question- other souls should get some message to come down, right?

I don't think it makes any difference if there are two souls or more coming. One of them is Shiv. He does not come on being invoked.

3) You may say, but a weak argument. Of course, from my side also I cannot prove it. But, I believe I have more points. because you take just literally.
Since Shiv can descend from Paramdham at any time as he wishes - similarly, he can enter in DG at any time he wishes. Also- reply is already given in the link. You DO NOT LIKE TO READ PROPERLY. Anyhow it is left to you.
Even coming of Shiv in Dadi - the EXACT INSTANT IS still not known. Again- it is still not sure- whether Shiv will be present always in Gulzar Dadi during the milan. At one time, just B baba had come. But, Baba says- always think- they are combined. And- in most of the Avyakt Murli points, Baba uses the word- BapDada, in some, just Baba also are there.

So- I had already said- I believe "MOST OF THE TIMES BOTH SHIV AND B BABA ARE COMBINED IN Subtle Region, but of course, each one is free to move anywhere, as they are free. B BABA CAN MOVE ANYWHERE EITHER IN Subtle Region, or IN PHYSICAL WORLD, BUT SHIV CAN GO EVEN TO Paramdham AS WELL"- WHY NOT?

So where are Bap and Dada always combined?

4)Your question is irrelevant. I do not enter in suble Brahma - this point was said when B Baba was in Sakar. So, now, it is irrelevant.
---During that time- ShivBaba had to bring the intellect of the people DOWN (TO PROVE HIS INCARNATION). That is why Baba had said- "I do not enter in subtle Brahma""
----And- it was only image of subtle Brahma (which was just emerged for vision or trance), till 1969. THERE WAS NO SUBTLE BRAHMA AT ALL TILL 1969. ARE YOU ABLE TO UNDERSTAND THIS POINT? [All these points are put in the link]

5)Why does baba say- "it would be wrong if I bring subtle Brahma down?" HAVE YOU TRIED TO CHURN ON THESE POINTS or STILL JUST LIKE TO TAKE ISOLATED Murli POINTS AND JUST ARGUE IN ONE-SIDED MANNER? For example, PBKs like to ONLY highlight the points which say Brahma is 'Badi Maa' or Big Mother, but SIMPLY IGNORE the several points which say Brahma is Mother, AS WELL AS Father; ADAM, AS WELL AS EVE! Why do you think -Virendra Dev Dixit and the PBKs DELIBERATELY LIKE TO PLAY THIS MONKEY GAME???

In initial days of Yagya- some of the SAME OLD/Bhakti knowledge, for example, old/lowkik Gita had also been used. Even songs of lowkik movies were used. HAVE YOU EVER THOUGHT WHY? Because Baba HAD TO TEACH FROM KNOWN TO UNKNOWN- at least in few cases.
---So, Baba might not have rejected the lowkik belief totally. That may hurt others, and- even some children would not have capacity to cope with the SUDDEN CHANGE.
---That is why sometimes Baba says- "in Subtle Region- just BVS exist. Sometimes says- just Brahma only exists".
--- Other points also are put there in the link.
---So, consider ALL THE Murli POINTS- if you are really wish to give value to Murli points.

Reply keeping outside persons in view:- In olden days- people used to get angry when photo of Brahma Baba was put in the place of Trimurti. They used to tear it. That is why Baba might have said- "Hey children (for lowkik people as well as weak BKs) I do not enter in subtle Brahma. He is pure, how can I bring him down to this impure world. It would be wrong, he will question- arey- what wrong have I done to bring me down to this IMPURE WORLD, ETC, ETC" But, now, the situation has changed.

Reply to PBKs:- Already put in the topic- "Flaws in PBK philosophy". Let them try to prove their stands before just putting questions. For example- even there in that topic- I had explained even Bk view. Then explained how Murli points fit best to Bk view. So, first PBKs should prove how Murli points fit best to them, is it not?

So- the following question itself is irrelevant (after 1969).

1. It is said that no one can know when Shiv comes and goes, he comes on his own and suddenly, but with the coming in the Gulzar Dadi there is a program fixed in advance. Is there a contradiction in that or not?

2. It is said that Bap and Dada are always combined. For the BKs Bap means the Supreme Soul the point of light and Dada means Brahma Baba, who is now in the Subtle Region. How and where are Bap and Dada always combined, when it is said that "I do not come in the Subtle Region dweller"?

7)The reply was already given. Murli points also say- I come in subtle Brahma. If you like to take just half knowledge (isolated Murli points), it is up to you.

[Even when it was asked to you to think on those 7 points, you never attempted to do so. At least those who are interested in Murli points should do, is it not?]