"Satguru Mila Dalal", The Paradox of Sangamyug.

[mr green]

I don't think I am the one sleeping.

[sachkhand]

AUM Shanti.

So, ShivBaba is our real guru. But Brahma also becomes sadguru beacuse he surrendered everything to Shiva. When One who surrenders everything to Baba, he becomes 100% swaaha. Then his tan, man, dhan everything is Baba's property. Such personalities are both middle man and mirrors of sadguru(Shiva). I still admit that I am not fully saisfied by my explanation.

yawn

mbbhat, just see the response we are getting. mr green is an ex-BK joined on 7th April 2006, the first person to join this forum after the Admin. He has already written more than 986 posts and replies. I really do not know their intentions. Most of the active members here really have no interest in churning and try to understand Murli points. They only know why this Forum was started. I have lost interest in this forum. You can write to me personally. I will write to you about my churning.
Thanks.
Sanjeev.

[mr green]

There is a god after all, sachand, we've all done the churning thing already. It is tiresome to see others going through the same dead end process.

Maybe it is beyond your grasp, but it could be some here are trying to help you.

[fluffy bunny]

I really do not know their intentions. Most of the active members here really have no interest in churning and try to understand Murli points.

sachkhand,

picking up on points raised by shivsena which were equally on my mind. One might invest one's self in the given revision of the Murli - and there are many such topics on this forum - but before doing so there are some questions one ought be asking.

shivsena asked it in one manner, I ask it in another. Evidence of original documents from the Om Mandli days shows that until after 1950, there was NO MENTION OF Shiva in any of the documents. From 1932, when Lekhraj Kirpalani retired and started his satsangs, to after 1950, there was only Prajapati God Brahma (Lekhraj Kirpalani) the Gita inventor.

So, how, when and why was Shiva introduced into the philosophy. Sure such an introduction, such a revelation is of such a magnitude that it ought be recorded somewhere. And sure the fact the current leadership, who are engaged in editing and revising these Murlis, have covered it up for so long whilst profiting from their fallacious version is also of such a magnitude that it ought to be explained.

You question our intentions. I question ANYONE that invest ANY OF THEIR TIME into a falsehood and give ANY OF THEIR TIME to a leadership that promotes falsehoods. Our intention is to seek the absolute truth. What are we doing? We are here, sitting, waiting for an answer. As shivsena points out ... no one is willing or able to provide one. Does that not seem strange to you?

So, we don't dance like sad little monkeys on a chain to the sound of the organ grinder, dancing to the tune they have invented to make money. Too right.

Now, where is the truth?

[sachkhand]

AUM Shanti.

So, we don't dance like sad little monkeys on a chain to the sound of the organ grinder, dancing to the tune they have invented to make money. Too right.

You are 100% correct. I am happy for that. I, too, am like you.

So, how, when and why was Shiva introduced into the philosophy. Sure such an introduction, such a revelation is of such a magnitude that it ought be recorded somewhere. And sure the fact the current leadership, who are engaged in editing and revising these Murlis, have covered it up for so long whilst profiting from their fallacious version is also of such a magnitude that it ought to be explained.

You question our intentions. I question ANYONE that invest ANY OF THEIR TIME into a falsehood and give ANY OF THEIR TIME to a leadership that promotes falsehoods. Our intention is to seek the absolute truth. What are we doing? We are here, sitting, waiting for an answer.

It is good to know from you about the intention of this forum and the importance you give to the revelation through BK's institution. But just read what mr green, who is also founder member I suppose, has written. In Post: All people hear my thoughts, page 3, on 26 Jul 2008,

The 'truth' is quite simple, the Murlis were made up by a bunch of religious pundits ... I come on here to chat and gossip, it's great.

So who is correct? ex-I or mr green? Anyway as you have said your intention is to seek the absolute truth. I, too, have the same intention. But you have written (made bold) that you are here, sitting and waiting for an answer. But I am seeking truth within me. This makes vast difference between you and me.

I would like to give my opinion about your queries. I accept that there has been some editing while revising Murlis. I personally think that it has been started after Lekhraj Kirpalani left his body. And the reason according to me was that the BKs of that time could not explain the questions raised by some people. So to protect themselves from unanswerable questions they edited some of the Murli points. Regarding History of Yagya, I think it would not have been a difficult job if Indian government wanted to know it in the 1970's. Because many people, other than surrendered BKs, who were part of it were still alive then. But no one cared to know about it. Although surrendered BKs of that time are not saying anything about history of Yagnya, or have changed something while writing book on Lekhraj Kirpalani, I think it is because they wanted to avoid questions which they could not answer. I think there is no bad intention behind it.

Even now if Government of India, Pakistan and UK want to know the true history of Yagya, they can find it. But they do not know its importance. And people like you and me cannot get information from old surrenderred BKs because they do not want to give the information. They just do not want to give. People used to make a mockery of the BKs after the demise of Lekhraj Kirpalani and used to say that this institution will be closed soon. People never gave importance to them, i.e. BKs, and the history of Yagya even though Lekhraj Kirpalani had sent letters to M.K. Gandhi and the Royal family of Britain. It was their fault.

Now if someone wants it, they can try and get it. For PBKs, it is easiest because according to them Virendra Dev Dixit is the next birth of Sevakram and it is already three decades. Virendra Dev Dixit should have recollected all incidents of his previous birth. And also they say that Omniscient Supreme Soul Shiv acts as Teacher through Virendra Dev Dixit. You can ask Virendra Dev Dixit or his followers.

Now regarding your qestion about Shiv being introduced into the BK philosophy only after 1950 although, according to your sources, the Yagya started as early as 1932. And also regarding the explanation given by Virendra Dev Dixit that Supreme Soul Shiv through Sevakram told Lekhraj Kirpalani the meaning of visions he (i.e. Lekhraj Kirpalani) had. There have been many Murli points which indicates that no one explained Lekhraj Kirpalani about his visions and also that even Lekhraj Kirpalani did not know what was happening through him and who was doing it, and slowly he started understanding all that was happening with him.

Why was Shiv not introduced? Because Lekhraj Kirpalani himself did not know that It was Shiv. This is my opinion. I am giving few Murli points related to these. I have read these original Murlis and have Xerox copies of these Murlis with me now. (I am writing in Hindi only, anyone interested can get it translated.)

• (9-5-85) page3: Baba ko sakshatkar hua samjha yah vinash hota hai. Sab jhat se chod diya. Aise thodehi usi samay samjha tamopradhan se satopradhan banana hai. Ab najdik aaye hain tab Baap kahate hain aadha kalp se tamopradhan banate aaye ho. Ab phir satopradhan banana hai.
  (25-3-85) page1: Hamara Baba aaya hua hai drama plan anusar. Baap aate bhi hai ratri main. Kab aate hai? Uskee tithi tareekh koi nahi hain. Tithi tareekh unki hoti hai jo lokik janm lete hain. Yah to hai paarloukik Baap. Inka lokik janm nahi hain. Krishna ki tithi tareekh samay aadi sab dete hain. Inka to kaha jaata hai divya janm. Baap inme pravesh kar bataate hain ki yah behad ka drama hain.
  (26-5-85) page2: Badai kiski nahi hain. Brahma ki badai tab hai jab Baap aakar pravesh karte hain. nahi to yah dhandha karta tha. Inko bhi thodehi pata tha - mere main bhagwaan aayenge. Baap ne pravesh kar samjhaya hai ki kaise maine inme pravesh kiya. Inko nimitt banaya ki Baap ka bankar Baap ko madad kaise deni chahiye. Isne bhi pahale pahale centre khola na. Baba ne inme pravesh kiya. Kaise? Inko dikhaya mera so tumhara. Tumhara so mera. Dekh lo. Tum mere madadgaar bante ho. Apne tan - man - dhan se. To unki eevaj tumko yah milega. Baap kahate hain mai sadharan tan main pravesh karta hoon. jo apne janmo ko nahi jaanate.Parantu main kab aata hoon. Kaise aata hoon. Yah kisko pata nahi hain.
  (11-5-85) page2: Baba ko uchal aayi na. Oho. Baba vishwa ka malik banate hain, phir yah dhan maal kya karenge. Chodo sab. Jaise paagal hote hain na. Sab kahane lage inko baithe baithe kya hua. Dhandha aadi sab chodkar aa gaye. Khushi ka paara chadh gaya. Sakshaatkar hone lage. Rajaayi milnee hain. Parantu kaise milegi. Kya hoga yah kuch pata nahi. Bus milna hai. Usee khushi main sab chod diya. Phir dheere dheere knowledge miltee rahatee hai. Tum bacche yahaan school main aaye ho.
  (1-4-85) page3: Yah bhi sunte hain, attention to hamaare oopar hai. yah bhi student hai. Yah apne ko aur kuch nahi kahate. Prajapita so bhi student hai. Bhal isne vinaash bhi dekha parantu samjha kuch bhi nahi. Aahiste aahiste samajhte gaye. jaie tum samajhate jaate ho. Baap tumko samjhate hai. Beech main yah bhi samajhate jaate hain. Padhate rahate hain. Harrek student purusharth karega padhane ka.

We are here, sitting, waiting for an answer. As shivsena points out ... no one is willing or able to provide one. Does that not seem strange to you?

Your question seems strange to me. What is Shivsena, Arjun, other PBKs and mbbhat, new nowledge, myself and few others trying to do here? Are we not trying to understand meaning of Murli points. But people like you are not interested in understanding Murli points, but are interested in scandals. You want some news and information which is bad. Sorry. I am here to understand Murli points and know and identify The GodFather Shiv.

According to my churning, Shiv cannot be understood without understanding Prajapita. So I am trying to understand The Prajapita who is The Corporeal Form of The GodFather Shiv. There are many points which seem contradictory but if understood properly can give us very clear understanding about The GodFather Shiv. And I am trying to open these knots. And you are more interested in unpicking these knots. In another thread you too have introduced yourself as knot unpicker. So, let us together unpick the knots of Murli points.

Why beg in front of those who are not willing to give information? In the Murli, it is said that when Father comes Yagya history will become clear. Let us concentrate more on what we can do and on what is in our hand. Why sit blaming those who do not want to cooperate?

Thanks.
Sanjeev.

[fluffy bunny]

To be honest, Murlis from the 80s just are not good enough. I suggest to all BK followers that - despite that their gurus tell them that they are good enough and their god will adjust the Karma for them magically - they are not good enough for anyone. When you discover that the food you have been eating has been adulterated, it is better not eat at all. Especially that offered by the hands of the adulterers.

So are you saying there is another Supreme Soul, another God Father to appear yet?

[arjun]

For PBKs, it is easiest because according to them Veerendra Dev Dixit is the next birth of Sevakram and it is already three decades. Veerendra Dev Dixit should have recollected all incidents of his previous birth. And also they say that Omniscient Supreme Soul Shiv acts as Teacher through Veerendra Dev Dixit. You can ask Veerendra Dev Dixit or his followers.

Since you have accepted that you are the reincarnation of Brahma Baba could you tell us how much of your previous birth do you recollect apart from what BKWSU has documented?

So I am trying to understand The Prajapita who is The Corporeal Form of The GodFather Shiv.

On the one hand you accept that you are Prajapita Brahma and on the other hand you say you are trying to understand the Prajapita. Which of your two statements is true?

[sachkhand]

AUM Shanti.

(on 30 Jul 2008) Since you have accepted that you are the reincarnation of Brahma Baba could you tell us how much of your previous birth do you recollect apart from what BKWSU has documented? On the one hand you accept that you are Prajapita Brahma and on the other hand you say you are trying to understand the Prajapita. Which of your two statements is true?

Are you not ashamed of asking such questions to me? Since three decades Virendra Dev Dixit has been propagating ideas which his followers (AIVV members) are also propagating, but Virendra Dev Dixit has never accepted what he himself projects himself as. So first get it confirmed from Virendra Dev Dixit whether he is actually Prajapita or not and if he is actually confirmed to be the next birth of Sevakram then has he atleast after three decades been able to recollect what all happened in early Yagnya times.

Do it first for your own good because you insist on what you say and are making people to accept your ideas and to surrender themselves to Virendra Dev Dixit. Best of luck in your herculean task.

(on 30 Jul 2008) So are you saying there is another Supreme Soul, another God Father to appear yet?

Supreme Soul is only one i.e., Shiv. And His Chariot is also of the same soul, i.e. Lekhraj Kirpalani. But we have to identify The present personality, i.e. the next birth of Lekhraj Kirpalani through whom Shiv will be revealed as The GodFather. This is my churning.
Thanks.
Sanjeev.

[arjun]

On the one hand you accept that you are Prajapita Brahma and on the other hand you say you are trying to understand the Prajapita. Which of your two statements is true?

In your eagerness to criticize me and Baba Virendra Dev Dixit (as usual) you have forgotten to answer the above question. :D

But we have to identify The present Personality, i.e., the next birth of Lekhraj Kirpalani through whom Shiv will be revealed as The GodFather.

When you have declared yourself to be Prajapita, why do you use the words 'we have to identify'? Are you still not sure of being Dada Lekhraj's soul in the past birth and Prajapita in this birth? Or are you indirectly asking us to recognize you?

bkdimok of this forum who also declared himself to be God was better than you in a sense that he was very humble and never got angry despite being provocated and had the courage to write as Shiv. But despite challenging Baba Virendra Dev Dixit to declare himself as Prajapita, you continue to write as sanjeev.

[sachkhand]

AUM Shanti.

When you have declared yourself to be Prajapita, why do you use the words 'we have to identify'? Are you still not sure of being Dada Lekhraj's soul in the past birth and Prajapita in this birth? Or are you indirectly asking us to recognize you?

bkdimok of this forum who also declared himself to be God was better than you in a sense that he was very humble and never got angry despite being provocated and had the courage to write as Shiv. But despite challenging Baba Veerendra Dev Dixit to declare himself as Prajapita, you continue to write as sanjeev.

May I ask you a simple question? You are giving so much importance to cross questioning me and getting answer from me. What am I? As per most of you, just another imposter. But still you feel it important to get answer from me. Why? Because the claim made by me needs confirmation and responsibility to be taken by the person claiming it.

So, Virendra Dev Dixit has been giving knowledge which says and points towards himself as Prajapita, Ram, Shankar, Sangamyugi Narayan, etc., and you people have been propagting those ideas since decades, you people are making people to surrender their wealth children and life. And still you did not feel it necessary that Virendra Dev Dixit should clarify what his part is and should take responsibilty. Is it not surprising? :D

Regarding the comparison drawn by you between me and bkdimok. I do not know what he did. But speaking about myself, it is not that I am getting angry, but the issues raised by me have made you and many people over here to react angrily. And I have replied to those so as to explain the reason for my posts.

Thanks.
Sanjeev.

[fluffy bunny]

... but the issues raised by me have made you and many people over here to react angrily.

You flatter yourself about your own importance and effect, sachkand. I doubt anyone has gotten angry. I suspect individuals were being polite in reading your posts, replying to them; there was a slight concerned ... arjun was reasonable enough to go and ask his Baba, Virendra Dev Dixit, your questions and come back and give you the reply ... would not you say folks have been very reasonable?

So what do you mean imposter? Now we know you were anamik beforehand, who are you? Another Vishnu Party members ... a BK come to waste our time? Time to come clean ... what do you want?

Or do you really believe that you were Lekhraj Kirpalani and Ramkrishna Paramhansa? Because 2007 passed without any revelation.

[sachkhand]

AUM Shanti.

Dear Sanjeev, I am helpless to comment on your query about Satguru & the Middleman. I think that you have sound ideas about this issue. Still waiting for your own reply of your query.

I am presenting my churning. Please first read my post "ShivBaba IN NUTSHELL" posted in BK Splinter groups.

In Murlis it is said that ShivBaba is Ramta Yogi and can enter into anyone and does service. Also it is written that ShivBaba has got only one flat (i.e., body) which is body of Dada Lekharaj's soul. Are not these two statements contradictory? Also on one hand it is said that ShivBaba comes only in the end times of Kalyug and transforms everyone and everything. And it is also said that ShivBaba's part begins from Dvapuryug. Again contradictory statements.

If you have read my above mentioned post, in that I have explained how is The GodFather. As a human being means collection of all parts or units of body like head, couple of hands and couple of legs etc., similarly The GodFather ShivBaba also is a collection of few Units of which The Nirakar Unit is called as Shiv and remembered as GodFather only. It is said in Murlis that He i.e., Shiv is called only as GodFather. Then when we call ShivBaba as Maat-Pita whom do we call? Also it is said in Murlis that ShivBaba does not have His own corporeal body and therefore does not take corporeal birth but His birth is a Divine Birth. But it is also said that you i.e., children know the biography of ShivBaba that too of many births. Is it not contradictory again? It is categorically said that ShivBaba gets Father and Mother but not Teacher and Satguru. What does this mean?

According to my churning the body of the soul of Dada lekharaj is The Mukarrar Rath of GodFather Shiv. Although Dada Lekharaj is no more in corporeal form but that soul has taken rebirth and That body is The Mukarrar Rath and The Prajapita or The Corporeal Ram.

The director Unit, as explained in the post "ShivBaba in Nutshell" is ShivBaba, The Ramta Yogi. Through this Unit Nirakar Shiv does service and gives directions. All people will come in contact with this Ramta Yogi Unit and are influenced by It. This Unit is The middleman and playing the part of middleman through many corporeal bodies of many different souls in all religions. At the end, The GodFather Shiv will be revealed through The Corporeal Ram i.e., The Prajapita (The Govind Who is being Seeked.)

In this way Shiv Himself is The Middleman (Satguru) and The One being Seeked (The Govind). And this is the reason for saying in Hindu culture that never make distinction between Satguru and God (Bhagwaan).

Avyakt Vani dt, 28-12-78: "Sarva alpakaal ke saadhana roopi saadhan samapt ho, ek yathaarth saadhan RajYoga dwaara harek ke beech Baap pratyaksha hoga; Vishva main VishvaPita spashta dikhaaee dega, har dharma kee aatma dwaara ek hi bol nikalega ki hamaara Baap Hinduoon va Musalmanoon ka naheen, sab ka Baap hain."
Thanks.
Sanjeev.

[mr green]

I challeged you to a bet about the Brahma thing, you did not take me up.

[sachkhand]

AUM Shanti.
I have been accused by few members that I am an angry person and this nature of mine is being reflected in my posts. I think that the issues raised by me are important ones, but many active members here are not able to digest that someone questions even them and are therefore themselves reacting with anger and mock. If these members feel that the words used by them are not due to anger then why are they accusing me to be an angry person and what not.

... but the issues raised by me have made you and many people over here to react angrily.

I doubt anyone has gotten angry. I suspect individuals were being polite in reading your posts, replying to them; there was a slight concerned ...

Let us see some of the replies I got to some of my posts

(1) In Has Veerendra Dev Dixit become Father to a child?

(on 01 Jul 2008) I think what you are doing is a very good thing sachkhand. Honestly. I think that you have voiced many of the questions and sentiments that many BKs (and PBKs) go through, honestly on this forum.

In the above quote ex-I has accepted that I have done nothing wrong by raising this issue. But see other replies to this post even that of ex-I.

(on 24 Jun 2008) You speak your mind based on your imbecile feeling ... Otherwise you are wasting our time with your nonsensical allegation.

(on 24 Jun 2008) Yes, you are right, we all hear and read of things. However, we all have a mind and intellect to make judgments which are correct for oneself and for the world at large. This is what a murderer tells the police after he had killed 3 bystanders in the street by stabbing them each 20 times in the neck; "It was inside me, something told me to do this, but I don't know what". Of course, this man did not go to jail, he was considered insane. So here's the next rumour; Dadi G and Veerendra Dev Dixit were sleeping together, a supernova occurred, and that was the start of Golden Age !! Now how do you like that ? Come on, be sensible !

(on 24 Jun 2008) blaming him with breaking the highest spiritual principle of that faith - only because you had one waste thoughts without any evidence, is called in spiritual language and in all holy books of all religions devilish ... You must have guilty conscience to have published your waste thoughts in one open forum

(on 25 Jun 2008) Man, I am just having a good laugh since I just remembered the practice of writing letters to Baba via the instruments and as soon as you handover the letter to the instrument and walk through the door ... am sure that they immediately open it to see if the student has asked a question to Baba about a possible surrender of properties ...Sifymail id ... hehehehe

(on 25 Jun 2008) Perhaps it would be cooler if God got his own domain name? Its a wonder that why, with His knowledge of the the three aspects of time, he did not predict the success of the internet and register his own domain name first? We could have a whip round and buy it for him.

(on 01 Jul 2008) Good idea, global. I think we should get Veerendra Dev Dixit, Gulzar, the Brahma Kumaris, Mama and the taxi driver together ... and get them on The Jerry Springer Show. We will need the securities guys to hold the BKs away from the PBKs.

(on 02 Jul 2008) By pointing a finger at others, the rust in your soul will increase and never decrease.

(on 06 Jul 2008) it is you in the scripture please sell your self with a second or third party, like Veerendra Dev Dixit is selling himself( such as arjun for vd)

(2) In Arjun, Veerendra Dev Dixit & PBKs are Deceivers. Shame on you!

(on 08 Jul 2008) your faith has filled you with arrogance and resentment, classic fundamentalism,

(on 08 Jul 2008) Yet another classic from mr green ... The sheer arrogance of being in the BK world. So truly said.

(on 08 Jul 2008) The only Deceiver I note in this thread is the one who has posted it. It's a personal attack on people based on ignorance and denial and shows the asbolute low intellectual ability of the poster to understand the complexities of the human race in general, showing immature anger, inappropriate comments and reactionary statements that have no place or time nor decency. ... threads like this simply highlight this individuals lack of conscious awareness and shows a selfish and invalid approach that only deceives himself.

(on 10 Jul 2008)Read what you write before you post. YOU list yourself as ... your posts border on the abusive side and I would recommend that you take more care with your current approach.

(on 15 Jul 2008) Not another one ... here again we see the dangers on the psyche posed by the teachings of Raja Yoga. Much love to you sack-hand and hopefully see you on the other side.

ex-I, how do you assess all he above replies given to me not just by one member but so many.

Thanks.
Sanjeev.

[bansy]

Are you sure you are not the one making a mockery of yourself?