"Satguru Mila Dalal", The Paradox of Sangamyug.

[sachkhand]

AUM Shanti.
Today I want to write on an interesting and very important issue. I have mentiones about it in the topic i.e., " Satguru Mila Dalal " meaning "God Satguru, The Middleman."

The above mentioned phrase is used many a times in Bhakti Marg and I think ( I do not have Muli Proof) is also used in Murli. An interesting and important point in this phrase " Satguru mila Dalal " which is to be noted is that, Satguru is compared with a middleman. And what is the duty of middleman? Middleman facilitates any deal between any two parties.

Now the two parties in Aloukik or Spiritual Journey is (1) the Seeker and (2) The One Who is Seeked i.e., The GodFather. And what does This Middleman ( Satguru ) do? He helps the Seeker to seek The GodFather.

The important question that arises is, it is said in Murli that ShivBaba Himself is Satguru. Then with whom does Satguru ShivBaba want the seekers to meet? The Seekers are first party, and Who is The Another Party? Satguru ShivBaba is The Middleman between whom?

Kabir has said that "Guru Govind douu khade, kako lage paay; balihaari Guru Aapki, Govind diyo bataaye" which I have translated to the best of my knowledge as follows, "If I meet Guru (Satguru) and Govind (The GodFather) then whose feet should I touch, I dedicate to Guru (Satguru) Who told about Govind (The GodFather)".

Here too it is clear that Satguru becomes a middleman for the Seeker and helps him meet The GodFather. And Kabir says that Satguru is more important to me because He made me to understand or told me about or showed me Govind (The GodFather).

But the paradox in Sangamyug is that, in Murli's it is said that ShivBaba himself is Satguru (The Middleman) and it is also said that ShivBaba is The GodFather.

Anyone, please try to explain this Paradox. Replies are eagerly awaited.
Thanks.
Sanjeev.

[new knowledge]

Wow! What a logic! But bro sachkhand, before responding to you, please let me know what do you mean by ShivBaba? Is He the Highest authority, i.e, GodFather or is anybody superior to Him? How could He be called as Meddleman, as He Himself requires a Chariot? First let us know your churning about your own query. Thanks.

[arjun]

Om Shanti. "Satguru milaa dalaal" is understood by the BKs as "meeting the Satguru, i.e. Shiv through the dalaal,i.e. middleman (Brahma Baba)" whereas it is understood by the PBKs as "meeting the Satguru, i.e. Shiv through the dalaal,i.e. middleman (Baba Virendra Dev Dixit)". I don't know whether Shivsena Bhai also holds the same view as the PBKs.

Anyways, since Sanjeev Bhai has already accepted in another thread of this Section that he is the GodFather, I wish to know whether he considers himself to be the Satguru, i.e. Shiv or the reincarnation of Brahma Baba. In case he is a reincarnation of Brahma Baba, was he born in 1969 or later?

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

[sachkhand]

AUM Shanti.

First let us know your churning about your own query.

Are you afraid of putting forth your views? Even Arjun asked me similiarly in the thread "Explanation required". We are here to share our views and gain from it. We are not here to prove someone right or wrong. I had a question about this. And I have put it in the forum. Surely I have gross idea about it. I think it is better to have discussion rather than someone acting like a teacher. By discussion we all feel to contribute. If only someone start acting like a teacher then sometimes rather than being a discussion it starts to take the form of argument and counter argument. And sometimes instead of sharing our ideas we start pulling each others legs. Let us keep aside our differences, at least for some time, about The Mukarrar Rath and The Final Chariot. Let us try to analyse important Murli points which will automatically make clear about The GodFather.

"Satguru milaa dalaal" is understood by the BKs as "meeting the Satguru, i.e. Shiv through the dalaal,i.e. middleman (Brahma Baba)" whereas it is understood by the PBKs as "meeting the Satguru, i.e. Shiv through the dalaal,i.e. middleman (Baba Veerendra Dev Dixit)".

In your view, Shiv is Satguru and one of the two i.e., Lekhraj Kirpalani and Virendra Dev Dixit is dalaal (middleman). But the phrase "Satguru milaa Dalaal" is a statement where Satguru is termed as The Dalaal (middleman). Therefore Shiv Who is Satguru becomes Dalaal.

Anyways, since Sanjeev Bhai has already accepted in another thread of this Section that he is the GodFather, I wish to know whether he considers himself to be the Satguru, i.e. Shiv or the reincarnation of Brahma Baba. In case he is a reincarnation of Brahma Baba, was he born in 1969 or later?

I think above sentences were unnecessary. The above sentences are written just to make fun of me. What does Arjun need? Does he need my biodata? I have already given him my postal address and phone number. He can contact me if he needs personal information. Now, about his querry regarding my part. I have given statements according to my feelings. And I have given very straightforward statements without any ambiguity in various threads.

I cannot provide proofs. I am not insisting anyone to accept my feelings. I am not trying to attract people and form a new group. I am not forcing my opinions upon others. If Arjun is jealous of my statements then what can I do? If he knows his part he can give statement. Let him stop doing such childish and foolish remarks. And let him try and understand important Murli points. Hope this thread too like the thread "Explanation Required" does not get spoiled by leg pullers and comedians.
Thanks.
Sanjeev.

[arjun]

I think above sentences were unnecessary. The above sentences are written just to make fun of me. What does Arjun need? Does he need my biodata? ...

My query as to whether you consider yourself to be GodFather or a reincarnation of Dada Lekhraj and whether you were born in 1969 is not at all irrelevant.

You have declared in one thread that you are GodFather whereas in another thread you have declared that Dada Lekhraj has taken rebirth. So, what is wrong if I ask you this question? When you can ask personal and defamatory questions about Baba Virendra Dev Dixit then cannot we just ask whether you are God Father or a reincarnation of Dada Lekhraj? The plea that you give for asking defamatory questions about Baba Virendra Dev Dixit is that he is supposed to be the Chariot of God Father by PBKs and hence you should know everything about him. So, similarly, there is nothing wrong/personal in asking about your year of birth if you declare yourself to be GodFather. Everyone knows that Baba Virendra Dev Dixit was born in 1942. There are varying accounts of the date of birth of Dada Lekhraj. So, if you declare yourself to be GodFather and are asking personal questions about other actors of this drama then why do you get angry when someone asks you about your year of birth?

I am not at all jealous of you. I have no objection if you get revealed in the world as GodFather. But you should remember that nobody would accept you as GodFather just on the basis of blindfaith, just as you don't accept Baba Virendra Dev Dixit as the Chariot of God Father Shiv.

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

[mbbhat]

Now the two parties in Aloukik or Spiritual Journey is (1) the Seeker and (2) The One Who is Seeked i.e., The GodFather. And what does This Middleman ( Satguru ) do? He helps the Seeker to seek The GodFather. The important question that arises is, it is said in Murli that ShivBaba Himself is Satguru. Then with whom does Satguru ShivBaba want the seekers to meet? The Seekers are first party, and Who is The Another Party? Satguru ShivBaba is The Middleman between whom?

Dear Sachkhand Soul,

I will try my best to explain this.

*Baba sometimes says Lakshmi & Narayan are Bhagavaan Bhagaviti. Then sometimes says, "No, Bhavaan is only one. It is incorrect to say them as Bhagavaan". Again Baba says, 'Bhagavaan to zaroor bhagavaan- bhagavati banaayegaa.' meaning 'definitely god will make bhagavaan and bhagavati.

*If you remember Murli points, 1) You can become teacher of one another, but not guru; 2)Become guru of one another by giving remembrance of Baba to one another. The 1) is said in the context 'Even if you give knowledge(become teacher), you cannot give sadgati(cannot become guru) to anybody. But in 2) it is said that you can become guru because you are helping one remembering God, which is both sadgati and path to sadgati.

So, ShivBaba is our real guru. But Brahma also becomes sadguru beacuse he surrendered everything to Shiva. When One who surrenders everything to baba, he becomes 100% swaaha. Then his tan, man, dhan everything is Baba's property. Such personalities are both middle man and mirrors of sadguru(Shiva). I still admit that I am not fully saisfied by my explanation.

[mr green]

yawn

[sachkhand]

AUM Shanti.

Sorry, I was busy with my family problems. And therefore I am late to answer.

(on 20 Jul 2008) You have declared in one thread that you are GodFather whereas in another thread you have declared that Dada Lekhraj has taken rebirth. So, what is wrong if I ask you this question? When you can ask personal and defamatory questions about Baba Veerendra Dev Dixit then cannot we just ask whether you are God Father or a reincarnation of Dada Lekhraj?

In the beginning you are stating that I have declared myself as GodFather, which I want to correct. I have stated that I am Prajapita. It is true as per my knowledge that Prajapita Himself will be the corporeal form of The GodFather. But considering Prajapita as Shiv is wrong. I will once again make you clear what I want to say about myself. In different threads many members including you have tried to put words in my mouth. Therefore I want to make clear what I feel.

I feel that I am Prajapita, because I feel I am the next birth of Dada Lekharaj. And as per my churning of Knowledge Dada Lekharaj is considered as Prajapita in Murlis. Therefore I think that I am Prajapita. Is that clear? Now coming to The GodFather. I have written a post by name " ShivBaba in nutshell" in the BK Splinter Groups. In that I have tried to explain How is The GodFather. It is complex. I have got gross idea of The GodFather. And I feel that it is correct. But detailed explanation of it is not possible for me now, because I do not know it now. It is getting clearer day by day. You may ask me that when I declare myself as Prajapita or The Corporeal Medium or Mukarrar Rath of Shiv, how is that I do not know? It is stated in Murlis that Prajapita is also a student.

I am not giving an excuse. I too have questioned this to myself. And I refused to believe myself as Prajapita. But again I feel that I am Prajapita. Sometimes I doubt myself. But again I come to the conclusion that my feeling that I am Prajapita is correct. So, that's it. I have nowhere written in any of the post that I am Shiv or I am GodFather. Many have tried to put words in my mouth. Sometimes I have just written " I accept it" and the reason is that I do not want to explain each and every time when someone tries to put words in my mouth. Now see the question you have asked to me,

(on 18 Jul 2008) I wish to know whether he considers himself to be the Satguru, i.e. Shiv or the reincarnation of Brahma Baba. In case he is a reincarnation of Brahma Baba, was he born in 1969 or later ?

Read what you have written (in blue colour). You have equated The Satguru = Shiv = the reincarnation of Brahma Baba. What do you mean by this? Is Brahma Baba Shiv? Are you such an ignorant BK and later a PBK who has been in Godly student since 30 years ( you have mentioned so in one of the threads.) ? Has anywhere in the Murli it is stated that Dada Lekharaj is Shiv? Are you not trying to put words in my mouth? Should I each and every time correct you people and explain.

You are the limit of foolishness. Read the last sentence (in orange colour). You have asked that if I am a reincarnation of Brahma Baba then was I born in 1969 or later. When I have accepted in another thread that I feel I am the next birth of Dada Lekharaj, is there any need to ask me something which is obvious. Is it possible that I take birth before January 18 1969 ( i.e., when Lekhraj Kirpalani left his corporeal body) and still be the reincarnation of Lekhraj Kirpalani. Are you a baby or acting over smart? Are you not trying to make fun of me by repeatedly raising the issue even when it is unnecessary.

(on 20 Jul 2008) The plea that you give for asking defamatory questions about Baba Veerendra Dev Dixit is that he is supposed to be the Chariot of God Father by PBKs and hence you should know everything about him. So, similarly, there is nothing wrong/personal in asking about your year of birth if you declare yourself to be GodFather. Everyone knows that Baba Veerendra Dev Dixit was born in 1942. There are varying accounts of the date of birth of Dada Lekhraj.

In the above sentences you have taken care to mention Virendra Dev Dixit to be the Chariot of The GodFather. But when asking me you purposely question me whether I am GodFather? Are you not being crooked? You have written that there is nothing wrong or personal in asking my year of birth. But, first question yourself whether you asked my date of birth?

You have put a foolish question to me which I have explained in the previous paragraph. My D.O.B is 30 th september 1969. Are you satisfied? You have tried a lot to glorify Virendra Dev Dixit and demean me. It neither changes my part nor of Virendra Dev Dixit. Whatever I wanted to say about and ask about Virendra Dev Dixit. I have written in the earlier posts. I do not want to repeat it here.

(on 20 Jul 2008) So, if you declare yourself to be GodFather and are asking personal questions about other actors of this drama then why do you get angry when someone asks you about your year of birth?

You are correct. There is no need to get irritated by your foolish questions. Hereafter I will take care not to explain your foolish irrelevant querries. That does not mean that I will not answer your rational questions.

Now read the question put to me by ex-I in another thread, and my short answer to it. And how you have twisted my answer and given your judgement about me. In Post: Arjun, Veerendra Dev Dixit & PBKs are Deceivers. Shame on you, page 2, by sachkhand on 13 Jul 2008,

You appear to be introducing "The GodFather" as a new spiritual leader within the Brahma Kumari movement, born after 1969. You thought it was yourself.

Yes. I accept it.

In Post: Arjun, Veerendra Dev Dixit & PBKs are Deceivers. Shame on you, page 2, by arjun on 14 Jul 2008,

I had requested the nimit Sisters to send a Murli point on Hiranyakashyap (i.e. those who declare themselves as God and they have sent me the following Murli point in Hindi: "Kaliyugi guru log kah dete sri - sri 108 Jagatguru. Iske liye phir Baba ne samjhaya hai jo apne ko paratma kahlakar apni puja bhait karate hain unko Hiranyakashyap kahate hain." (Revised Sakar Murli.dt. 10.8.83 pg 2 published by BKs in Hindi) The approximate translation of the above is as follows: "Iron-Aged Gurus say 'Shri-Shri 108 Jagatguru' (world preceptor). For this Baba has then explained that those who call themselves as Supreme Soul and sit and make others to worship them are called Hiranyakashyap." (Revised Sakar Murli.dt. 10.8.83 pg 2 published by BKs in Hindi and translated by a PBK)

Arjun, you are really being irrational and crooked. An advance "No Mention" for your Thank you in return to my sweet words.
I think it is better that other members of this forum take interest in the actual issue I have raised in this topic and try to discuss and understand it.

yawn

There is no need to show how bored and sleepy you feel. This post is not for people like you who are not interested in churning ShivBaba's Murli Points. So have a nice sleep.

Thanks.
Sanjeev.

[sachkhand]

yawn

AUM Shanti.
There is no need to show how bored and sleepy you feel. This post is not for people like you who are not interested in churning ShivBaba's Murli Points.
So have a nice sleep.
Thanks.
Sanjeev.

[arjun]

My D.O.B is 30 th september 1969.

If you are Lekhraj Kirpalani reincarnated, can you help us correct any of the historical revisions and explain what really happened in the early days?

[mbbhat]

Dear Sachkhand,
The following is just my thought. I may be useful to somebody here.

In Raja Yoga, both goal and path are same. That is why it is said, jeevan-mukti in a second. We practice soul conscious stage to become soul conscious.

ShivBaba is both teacher and the subject in Raja Yoga. When Shiva is teacher, he is like mediator. That is, when we try to understand ShivBaba through the knowledge he gives, Shiva is like mediator, because he is like helping or guiding us to remember Shiva.

When we remember him, HE bestows us with bliss, peace, power and happiness. So, at that time, Shiva is Sadguru. Hence Shiva is both mediator and sadguru for all. That is why Baba says, forget all the bodily relations and remember me alone.

Those who follow Shiva become numberwise sadgurus.

[arjun]

In the beginning you are stating that I have declared myself as GodFather, which I want to correct. I have stated that I am Prajapita. It is true as per my knowledge that Prajapita Himself will be the corporeal form of The GodFather. But considering Prajapita as Shiv is wrong.

Dear brother,
In response to ex-l's query you accepted that you are GodFather. In the above reply, you say that you are Prajapita and you also say that Prajapita Himself will be the corporeal form of the GodFather. In the thread 'explaination required' you have written on 4.7.08

Here we are sharing our views on The GodFather's Murli points.

I suppose that in the above sentence GodFather means Shiv.

So, in view of all your above statements, would you kindly clarify what you mean by "Prajapita Himself will be the corporeal form of The GodFather"? Generally capital form (H) of the alphabet 'h' is used only for God. But you have used it for Prajapita and also stated that Prajapita will be the corporeal form of The GodFather. So, it would be better if you clarify what you mean by GodFather as well.

On Godly Service,
Arjun

[warrior]

My D.O.B is 30 th september 1969

Sanjeevbhaiji,

If you consider yourself to be the reincarnation of Dada Lekraj, so where were you between 18th Jan 1969 and 30th Sep 1969?

• Did you leave the body and became Avyakt or what during this gap period before taking the current body?
  And why is there no mention in any Avyakt Vanis about the reincarnation of "you"?
  Also, why is not there any trance messages about 'you' meeting up there somewhere in the Avyakt form with the Seniors like Dadi Gulzarji or anyone else?

Om Shanti

[fluffy bunny]

My D.O.B is 30 th september 1969.

If you are Lekhraj Kirpalani reincarnated, can you help us correct any of the historical revisions and explain what really happened in the early days?

[new knowledge]

Dear Sanjeev, I am helpless to comment on your query about Satguru & the Middleman. I think that you have sound ideas about this issue. Still waiting for your own reply of your query.