Madhuban, Kampil and mini-Madhubans, my 3 feet

[bansy]

Hi BKs PBKs and all,

OK, we like discussing about the Chariot, now where ...

What exactly is "Madhuban" ? Is it a place or simply just a definition ?

Can anyone shed light on why has Kampil and Madhuban are/were chosen for Shiva to come down ? (a link to a bit of Indian spiritual history maybe). Are these the only places you'll get some decent bhatti fire.
I've assumed Madhuban to be Mt Abu/Pandav Bhavan. Please correct if not so.

Then why are there so-called "mini-madhubans" mentioned and not "mini-kampils" ?

Can I call my own 3 square feet (which is all that is needed for Raja Yoga) "mini-Madhuban", if Shiva enters/channels through me (think of the trance messengers) ?

[arjun]

Sister Bansy, Om Shanti.

1. What exactly is "Madhuban" ? Is it a place or simply just a definition ?

Ans: Madhuban is the place where the Madhusudan (another name for Krishna in the path of worship, but here it refers to ShivBaba) lives. Since Mt. Abu was the place of actions of Shiv through Brahma Baba as a mother, it was named as Madhuban. Since ShivBaba is not present practically at Mount Abu since 1969, it cannot be called Madhuban in the true sense.
Since ShivBaba has shifted his place of service to Kampil, the place of Baba's residence at Kampil is called Mini Madhuban. It is called Mini madhuban in comparison to the size of the Madhuban at Mount Abu. There are quite a few mini madhubans in the Advance Party in India besides many gitapathshalas being run in the houses of PBK couples/families

2. Can anyone shed light on why has Kampil and Madhuban are/were chosen for Shiva to come down ?

Ans: Kampil is chosen as Madhuban since 1976 because the new Chariot of Shiv after 1969 hails from that place. Direct and indirect hints have been given in various Sakar Murlis and Avyakt Vanis aboout the new place of actions of ShivBaba since 1969. The place Kampil also has a mythological significance. It is believed that Draupadi, the wife of Pandavas was born from a Yagyakund at Kampil, the capital of Panchaal state. It was at Kampil only that the Pandavas spent a long time in incognito form. And it is at this place that they got married to Draupadi. Coincidentally, like Mount Abu there are two ancient Jain temples (Digambar and Shwetambar) in this tiny village.

3. Can I call my own 3 square feet (which is all that is needed for Raja Yoga) "mini-Madhuban", if Shiva enters/channels through me (think of the trance messengers) ?

Ans: Baba says that any place/household can be called a Mini Madhuban where a PBK couple is following the path of knowledge as per the Shrimat given in the Murlis, mainly if they are following purity, have undergone the bhatti, can explain the advance knowledge to others, know at least some Hindi to understand the Murlis, etc.

With regards,
OGS,
Arjun

[bansy]

Thanks for the clarification Arjunbhai. There is something about the Jains connection to the Deity religion ... so similar (open eyed meditation, strict diet), but yet not one of the 10 religions.

If ShivBaba is in Kampil, does this mean Shiva is not in Paramdham. He does not return there at all. In which case, does Paramdham actually exist during this Confluence Age (as according to the Advance Knowledge, as compared to Basic Knowledge) ?

Regards
Bansy

[john]

In which case, does Paramdham actually exist during this Confluence Age

If Paramdham stops existing what about the souls still there?

I think there is unity between BKs and PBKs about the existance of Paramdham. Where there is a diference is in the understanding of the Subtle Regions.

What's also interesting is if Shiva only plays a 100 year part in the Confluence Age is the rest of his part during the cycle in Paramdham in a dormant state like other souls or does he have any consciousness of being there.

[bansy]

Yes, there does appear to be some conflict ... to be more clear I forgot and should have added in my previous post I have heard of this from BK (yes a bit surprised it to be from a BK) that Paramdham does not exist and it is only a place in one's imagination. After all, how can you accurately meditate if Shiva is in Paramdham...how can your soul link there. This is based on some churnings way back but I did not follow it up, but it has just kind of cropped up again now.

I would like to see what the PBKs views are on this, since Shiva is not in Paramdham. If Shiva is in this corporeal world, and if there are souls in Paramdham, how do they come into this world ? Thus I ask does Paramdham actually exist.

[john]

(yes a bit surprised it to be from a BK) that Paramdham does not exist and it is only a place in one's imagination.

I've also heard this from a PBK or two, as we're discovering do labels mean that much? PBKs might be in advance knowledge but are they all in advance understanding?

[pbktrinityshiva]

Bhais,

I will email these questions to Baba and post his reply as soon as it is received.

Does Paramdham actually exist as a place or is it just a seed state of mind/soul?

If ShivBaba is in Kampil, does this mean Shiva is not in Paramdham?

If Shiva only plays a 100 year part in the Confluence Age is the rest of his part during the cycle in Paramdham in a dormant state like other souls or does he have any consciousness of being there?

Om Shanti

[arjun]

Om Shanti. I was going through an Avyakt Vani dated 14.03.06 published by the BKs and found the following lines which are related to the topic of Madhuban:
"Whenever you have any obstacles, then remember this day. Come to Madhuban without a train ticket (with your intellect). Here, you have the atmosphere of actions performed by BapDada. It is your duty to catch those vibrations. However, Madhuban means that it has an atmosphere of the rays of actions performed by BapDada. So many great maharathis have gone into the Advance Party; the lines of their actions are also in the atmosphere of Madhuban."

But it also has a mention about the Advance Party. Can any BK please tell me where this Advance Party is located presently? In one of the old Avyakt Vanis it has been mentioned that whether you go to the Advance Party or not their task will continue to take place. Now, do we have to leave bodies to become part of the Advance Party or can we join the Advance Party while living in this body itself?

With regards,
OGS,
Arjun

[arjun]

There is something about the Jains connection to the Deity religion....so similar (open eyed meditation, strict diet), but yet not one of the 10 religions.

Baba has said that the Jain religion and the deity religion is one and the same. Hence, they have not been shown separately in the Kalpa tree.

With regards,
OGS,
Arjun

[arjun]

Sister Bansy and John Bhai,
Om Shanti.

As far as I know Baba has said that Paramdham (Soul World) does exist, but not just in one direction as shown by the BKs in the picture of three world, but surrounding the Earth or universe. Just as the electrons revolve around the nucleus of an atom in spherical orbits, in the same way, each soul has its own orbit in the Paramdham surrounding the universe. The higher the number of a soul in the rosary, the higher will be the its orbit. This way, the orbit of the Supreme Soul is the highest encompassing all other souls within it. Next is the soul of Prajapita, and so on.

But the gross or non-living Paramdham is not relevant to us as the living Paramdham which is created in this world itself in the Confluence Age. Baba says that you children will bring down the Paramdham to this world. It means that we children attain the incorporeal stage numberwise, while living in this body in such a way that the atmosphere surrounding the gathering of such souls would become like a Soul World. The soul which becomes number one in this pursuit is the soul of Shankar or Prajapita, who is shown sitting nearest to the Soul World in the picture of Three Worlds. Further, as the Supreme Soul resides in the body of Prajapita or Shankar in this Confluence Age, that body can also be called as Paramdham or the Abode of Peace. Remembering Supreme Soul in that body is like remembering Him in the Soul World.

As regards the remembrance of Supreme Soul in the gross Soul World by the BKs, I agree with sister Bansy that "how can you accurately meditate if Shiva is in Paramdham...how can your soul link there." When all the souls (including those of animals, birds etc) are points of light, then how do we recognize as to which soul is the Supreme Soul and which are the human or animal souls? BKs imagine to be meeting ocean of peace, ocean of love, ocean of bliss in the Soul World. But how can these titles be attributed to a point of light? Only when that point of light comes into this world and shows such attributes while living in the midst of Iron-Aged dirty world and in a sinful body that we can call Him to be an ocean of peace, love, purity, bliss etc.

However, let us await Baba's answers to the questions sent by PBK Trinity Shiva.

With regards,
OGS,
Arjun

[andrey]

In the Murlis or Avyakt Vanis it is said that wherever the children create a mini-Madhuban - BapDada will come there. So, it should be a place where BapDada goes, is not it?

[bansy]

In the Murlis or Avyakt Vanis it is said that wherever the children create a mini-Madhuban - BapDada will come there. So, it should be a place where BapDada goes, is not it?

Andrey, do you have Murli/Vani quote on this.

Arjunbhai has given a quote above referring to BapDada :

Here, you have the atmosphere of actions performed by BapDada. It is your duty to catch those vibrations. However, Madhuban means that it has an atmosphere of the rays of actions performed by BapDada.

What is the PBK definition/interpretation of "BapDada" in this case ("Ram" and not "Brahma" ?)

[bansy]

Arjunbhai,
You mention a mini-Madhuban to be a place for a practicing PBK couple following Shrimat. Thus unmarried PBKs cannot set up a mini-Madhuban..is this correct ?

What is given to the place where singles PBKs give/teach ('in-person') Raja Yoga to other souls. Gita Pithshala ?

Regards
Bansy

[andrey]

No, i don't have a quote.

No, Dada is always for Brahma Baba/elder brother/. Ram is Bap/Father/ Incorporeal Ram is reference for the Supreme Soul Shiv.

In the Murlis it is said sometimes Bap comes in Dada and sometimes Dada comes in Bap /i don't have a quote/ They are combined in one body. BapDada are combined, they are not separate /As are the Mother and Father form thе end of the Murli (the greeting...to the long lost....Spiritual Father - Incorporeal soul Shiva - spiritual children -incorporeal souls)...Mather and Father (two bodies*female and male*) BapDada - one body/. But with the case when Dada /Lekraj/ comes in Bap /Supreme Soul/, there should be a body where the Supreme Soul comes, so that they are combined.

I know Gita Patshala is a place where Gita is read. But since the God of the Gita is only one /the one who speaks the Gita/ I am not sure if it is not correct to say Gita Patshala is only one. The household of the Mother and Father of the world, where the Supreme Soul comes and gives the knowledge of the Gita.

For eg. center is not said for the house, but there are souls like centers.

[arjun]

Om Shanti.

You mention a mini-Madhuban to be a place for a practicing PBK couple following Shrimat. Thus unmarried PBKs cannot set up a mini-Madhuban..is this correct ? What is given to the place where singles PBKs give/teach ('in-person') Raja Yoga to other souls. Gita Pithshala ?

Yes, unmarried PBKs cannot set up a mini-Madhubans. Unmarried male PBKs can organize a get together/gathering (sangathan) of male PBKs at their place if their family has no objection. Similarly, unmarried female PBKs/ married female PBKs whose husband in not in Gyan can organize a get together/gathering of female PBKs at their place of residence if their family has no objection. But it would be always good to seek Baba's permission/opinion if such classes are to be organized on a regular basis.
Such classes are not called Gitapathshalas. Gitapathshalas can be set up only in the houses of PBK couples. If some single male PBKs have joined together to live at a place in accordance with Shrimat, it can be called Pandav Bhavan but not Gita pathshala.

To make the concept of mini-Madhubans and Gitapathshala more clear I am reproducing below an extract from the clarification Murli narrated by Father Shiv through the medium of Shankar (Baba Virendra Dev Dixit) as contained in the VCD no.311, a draft of which was circulated to the PBKs recently.

"Father says - If you have one room, you can open Gitapathshala in the same room. Write - Spiritual University. Sleep in the same room; Cook in the same room; clean the same room and organize the class. This is your university (vishwavidyalay). There is no expenditure of even a paisa. You need not beg before anyone. You need not collect any contribution (chanda) from anyone. Those Gurus collect donations, keep begging and create their math-panths (sects). They keep constructing high-rise palaces, buildings etc. They keep adding their names in the Government registration papers. Father says - I do not require anything. I have come from Paramdham (Soul World). I will return to the Soul World. I do not require these palaces and buildings. Yes, He says that - when the destruction takes place, then you children will gather in the land of penance, Mount Abu. I will bring together you children. But I will bring together those children who remain constant in the soul conscious stage. Those who are body conscious bulls (deh abhimaani saandey) would not be able to enter that gathering (sangathan). That is why it has been said - This fort of Pandavas will become so strong, in which even a single vicious person would not be able to enter." The lustful, wrathful, greedy, attached, egoistic ones - such souls would not be able to enter that gathering. That would be the true house of Abu Abba (Father). At that time it would be called 'Mahamadhuban'. Now, there are small Mini Madhubans of you children. It has been said; it has been ordered that wherever you would establish Mini Madhubans, BapDada would come. You can give the Gitapathshalas also a form of Madhuban. Prepare a map of Madhuban. Just as Father has prepared the maps for Mini Madhubans - you have to live like this, you have to eat like this, you have to act like this - prepare a similar map. If you prepare the map of Madhuban, then BapDada would certainly come, but these small places are only for service, not forever. Ultimately, when the destruction of the world takes place, then the residents of Madhuban would have to leave Madhuban. Residents of Gitapathshalas would have to leave Gitapathshalas. Residents of Gyan Sarovar would have to leave Gyan Sarovar. Those who are my true children would come and live with me." (VIDEO CD NO.311, AUDIO CASSETTE NO.795, DATE-30.9.05, CLARIFICATION OF Murli DTD. 31.12.66, DANDMUKUNDPUR)

I would send a copy of this reply to Baba for approval and intimate changes if any.
With regards,
OGS,
Arjun