Who is Bharat and who are Bharatwasis ??

[sita]

First no. 1 shivshakti(Mama) has to become karmatit farishta and she(angel-mother) attained that stage in 1965, and then she guides the 108 shivshakti-pandavsena how to become karmatit by narrating avaykt Vanis and giving lessons on how to attain the karmatit awastha.....when the purusharth of 108 is complete then 108 will become numberwise karmatit in future.

Dear shivsena,
Please, tell what are the lessons to attain the karmatteet avastha, if you are taking them. Have mercy. Let us also reach it. But also the results are not yet out and it could be the other way round. The one who achievs the stage takes the post. What comes firts, post or stage?

[Roy]

The English translations have been added in brackets.

Many thanks Bhai!

[Roy]

To have credibility; i believe Shivsena Bhai needs to be able to give satisfactory responses, to Arjun and Indie Bhai's comments. On every count of Shrimat; Mama fails the test of being karmateet in 1965. It just is not feasible, according to ShivBaba's teachings; or on reading anything about Mama(great soul as she is) from her time in the Yagya. I felt the smashing article, warrior Bhai uploaded recently; showed Mama in her true light. She was a great effort maker, and example to the Yagya; but she certainly wasn't the all knowledgeful soul, you believe she was. I even felt she was giving a wrong interpretation of Baba's instructions, regarding the service pictures; if this article was indeed, an accurate account of the conversations, that took place with her.

Roy

[Roy]

"no bodily person can be God."

I don't believe anyone here will argue this point... but on becoming completely bodiless(complete soul conscious, thoughtless stage) in 2018; Baba Dixit(Ram) becomes bapsaman, and entitled to be called Bhagwan!

"prajapita brahma does not give inheritance'

Again, no argument here on that one; it is ShivBaba who gives the inheritance through prajapita brahma(Baba Dixit).

"Now you have become children of Prajapita Brahma. You know that ShivBaba will take you to heaven through Prajapita Brahma." [Mu 18.4.73]

Roy

[RudraPutra]

First no. 1 shivshakti(Mama) has to become karmatit farishta and she(angel-mother) attained that stage in 1965, and then she guides the 108 shivshakti-pandavsena how to become karmatit by narrating avaykt Vanis and giving lessons on how to attain the karmatit awastha.....when the purusharth of 108 is complete then 108 will become numberwise karmatit in future.

In muri it has been said
"Mama-Baba bhi jaayenge,ananya bacche bhi advance mein jaayenge....aise nahi ki Mama-Baba koi paripoorna ho gaye hai.Paripoorna avastha anth mein hogi."-----------MU 10.11.88
"Mama-Baba will also go,many other children will also go in advance.....it is not that Mama-Baba had attained complete stage.Complete stage will be attained at last."
....i do not think any further clarification required....

[arjun]

To have credibility; i believe Shivsena Bhai needs to be able to give satisfactory responses, to Arjun and Indie Bhai's comments. On every count of Shrimat; Mama fails the test of being karmateet in 1965.

Here is another Murli point which I have uploaded in the BK Section day before yesterday:

1149.

“वहाँ की क्या रस्म-रिवाज़ होगी, सब जान जायेंगे। शुरू में तुमको सब साक्षात्कार हुए थे। उस समय तो अजुन तुम अल्फ-बे पढ़ते थे। फिर लास्ट में भी जरूर तुमको साक्षात्कार होने चाहिए। सो बाप बैठ सुनाते हैं, वह सब देखने की चाहना तुमको यहाँ होगी। समझेंगे, कहाँ शरीर न छूट जाये, सब कुछ देखकर जायें। इसमें आयु बढ़ाने के लिए चाहिए योगबल। जो बाप से सब कुछ सुनें, सब कुछ देखें। जो पहले से गये उनका चिंतन नहीं करना चाहिए। वो तो ड्रामा का पार्ट है। तकदीर में नहीं था – ज्यादा बाप से लव लेना क्योंकि जितना-जितना तुम सर्विसएबुल बनते हो, तो बाप को बहुत-बहुत प्यारे लगते हो। जितना सर्विस करते हो, जितना बाप को याद करते हो वह याद जमती रहेगी। तुमको बहुत मज़ा आयेगा।“(ब्रह्माकुमारियों द्वारा प्रकाशित रिवाइज़्ड साकार मुरली दिनांक ०१.०६.०९, पृ. २)

“You will know everything as to what will be the rituals and traditions there. In the beginning you had all the visions. At that time you used to study just alaf-be. Then you should have visions even in the last period without fail. So, the Father sits and narrates; you will have the desire to see all that. You will think – I should not lose my body; I should see everything before departing. You require the power of Yoga to increase your longevity so that you could listen to everything from the Father and see everything. You should not think of those who have already left (their bodies). That was a part of drama. They were not fated to receive more love from the Father because the more you become serviceable, the Father likes you more. The more you do service, the more you remember the Father, that remembrance would go on becoming stable. You will enjoy a lot.” (Revised Sakar Murli dated 01.06.09, pg 2 published by BKs in Hindi, narrated by ShivBaba through Brahma Baba; translated by a PBK; the words within brackets in the English version have been added by the translator to clarify the meaning)

Baba is telling that we should not think of those who have left their bodies in the past and shivsena Bhai keeps remembering and reminding others of those who have left their bodies and could not see the drama completely. Nor could they obtain the Father's love completely as stated in the above Murli.

[Roy]

MU 10.11.88 "Mama-Baba will also go,many other children will also go in advance.....it is not that Mama-Baba had attained complete stage.Complete stage will be attained at last."....i do not think any further clarification required....

. You should not think of those who have already left (their bodies). That was a part of drama. They were not fated to receive more love from the Father

Great points brothers!

Roy

[shivsena]

Murli 23-9-05 says: "Bharatwasis tamopradhan hone ke karan yeh bhi nahin jaante ki shiv kaun hai.....jiski pooja karte hain uske occupation toh jaante nahin."
["Because Bharatwasis have become tamopradhan, they do not know who is shiv(yatharth roop)....they remember shiv, but do not know his occupation."]

BKs and PBKs would interpret the bharatwasis as the residents of bharatland (India)....but the above Murli point clearly describes the tamopradhan state of bharatwasis(PBKs) of the behad ka drama, who remember shiv but do not know his yatharth roop and his occupation.

shivsena.

[Roy]

BKs and PBKs would interpret the bharatwasis as the residents of bharatland (India)....but the above Murli point clearly describes the tamopradhan state of bharatwasis(PBKs) of the behad ka drama, who remember shiv but do not know his yatharth roop and his occupation.

Dear shivsena Bhai

Thank you for this excellent Murli point; which imo, is clearly referring to the souls who have not recognised ShivBaba's role, of Father, Teacher, Satguru, taking place via Shankar(Ram-Baba Dixit) at this time in the Confluence Age; due to their attachment to the mother, Brahma Baba.

Roy

[shivsena]

Thank you for this excellent Murli point; which imo, is clearly referring to the souls who have not recognised ShivBaba's role, of Father, Teacher, Satguru, taking place via Shankar(Ram-Baba Dixit) at this time in the Confluence Age; due to their attachment to the mother, Brahma Baba.
Roy

So you mean to say that bharatwasis are bk and not PBKs (who claim they have identified Bharat-Ram and pride in calling themselves as bharatwasis.)

[Roy]

So you mean to say that bharatwasis are bk and not PBKs (who claim they have identified Bharat-Ram and pride in calling themselves as bharatwasis.)

The BKs(the moon dynasty souls) may not be first class bharatwasis like the PBKs(Sun Dynasty souls), who have full recognition of Father's part... but we all ultimately took birth, because of the part played by Prajapita Brahma(Baba Dixit-Bharat-Ram) in his 83rd birth; at the beginning of the Yagya, in 1936/7.

Roy

[pbkindiana]

Roy wrote:
The BKs(the moon dynasty souls) may not be first class bharatwasis like the PBKs(Sun Dynasty souls), who have full recognition of Father's part... but we all ultimately took birth, because of the part played by Prajapita Brahma(Baba Dixit-Bharat-Ram) in his 83rd birth; at the beginning of the Yagya, in 1936/7.

Dear Roy Bhai,

A small correction ie. -- the BKs are not regarded as the moon dynasty but the viyaymala souls who follow the footsteps of Brahma DL are regarded as the moon dynasty souls. Actually those who recognized Bharatpita and Bharatmata are termed as bharatwasis and only in the end Brahmins are catergorised as bharatwasis numberwise after the massive destruction played by Mahakali. The hide and seek game will be played after the massive destruction as there will be a clash among the nine heads of the nine religions saying that they are the appointed Chariot of Shiva. Finally the true diamond(Bharatpita- Rambap-ShivBaba-Baba Dixit) will be revealed and all the fake diamonds will get destroyed.

So bhararwasis are the true Indian souls who have recognized Bharatmata and Bharatpita.

indie.

[Roy]

A small correction...

Many thanks Indie Bhai, i appreciate your comments!

May i ask what is your interpretation of Shivsena's Murli point, in light of what you have said? Are the bharatwasis being referred to, the souls from the moon dynasty, that have yet to recognise Father's part; or, is Baba referring to souls from both dynasties, who have/had yet to even accept raj Yoga as truth?

Roy

[Roy]

So bhararwasis are the true Indian souls who have recognized Bharatmata and Bharatpita.

Dear Indie Bhai

This makes a lot of sense! So is it the 450,000(ancestor) souls who survive the final destruction, who are the true bharatwasis; or are all of the 900,000 souls, who mark the beginning of the Golden Age population, included within this title? Also; am i correct in believing; that some, or all of the 225, 000 vijay ancestor souls, go on to be included in the numbers of the Sun Dynasty? In which case; are the 450, 000 souls born to the ancestor souls at the beginning of the Golden Age, considered as the "actual" moon dynasty souls? Thus, we would then have; 450,000 Sun Dynasty souls, and 450,000 Moon Dynasty souls, making up the population of the Golden Age in the beginning?

Many thanks!

Roy

[RudraPutra]

This makes a lot of sense! So is it the 450,000(ancestor) souls who survive the final destruction, who are the true bharatwasis; or are all of the 900,000 souls, who mark the beginning of the Golden Age population, included within this title?

There would be only 4.5 lac souls who will survive the final destruction...rest all leave their bodies....
These 4.5 lac souls are accompanied by their 4.5 lac children souls who do not have their body but uses their parents body....
like how Krishna child is using Ram's body...similarly....
These 4.5 lac+4.5 lac together make 9 lac souls present in 4.5 lac bodies....but actual population of Golden Age is 9 lac(of course through bodies)....so time when Krishna's soul becomes mature enough to take the seat or name of Narayan,population of deities should be 9 lac that is everyone would be having their own body...

Also; am i correct in believing; that some, or all of the 225, 000 vijay ancestor souls, go on to be included in the numbers of the Sun Dynasty?

Actually among 4.5 lac parent souls 2.25 lac are from rudra mala and 2.25 are from vijay mala....together they make 2.25 couple souls of vaijayantimala...which in number are total 4.5 lac souls....but when they become couple; souls of vijaymala accepts the name,family and everything of rudra mala...hence they although being the main member of moon dynasty, accepts the Sun dynasty.....as women gets her new name,family after marriage...similarly....so they automatically become members of SUN DYNASTY....hence only one dynasty....

In which case; are the 450, 000 souls born to the ancestor souls at the beginning of the Golden Age, considered as the "actual" moon dynasty souls?

of course not because their parents are now of SUN DYNASTY(even the souls of vijayamala who were the moon dynasty followers,after swayamvar that is after coupling with souls of rudramala becomes members of SUN DYNASTY)...and the children will follow their parents dynasty....

Thus, we would then have; 450,000 Sun Dynasty souls, and 450,000 Moon Dynasty souls, making up the population of the Golden Age in the beginning?

...i think you got the answer.....there would be only one dynasty....or else again there is dwait or dual which is against the policy of heaven....as in heaven there is oneness!!!