Maybe I did not interpret it in the right way but I know at least that the French behaved so badly in North Africa, and all the colonies in the rest of Africa?Europe has never gone to war with Africa
Andrey
I do agree with the fact that Indian kings haven't been tender towards each other, but they have been invaded by the Muslims, the christians, and treated the most atrocious way (by the Muslims especially), and they did not try to conquer other lands. But what you wrote:
One second?
Dear mother Aimee,
Yes, why not. Is it an ordinary study like in the outside world where we make a lot of effort for only one birth and there is no guarantee for even this. Is it an ordinary man who teaches? It is a matter for the whole Kalpa. Baba says /I cannot put Virendra Dev Dixit here, because it is not this name that is the name of Baba/ it is even possible that we stay happy for 82-83 births, studying this knowledge.
In the Murlis it is said we can become complete if we had Yaad for 8 hours. Yes, we may study a long time, to understand correctly and deeply, we can remember only one for a long time, to become free from the colour of the company of many different companies, but the moment we become free, the moment of cutting, the moment of changing the suffering of karma into karma Yoga, the crucifixion to a torn, the transformation is of one second, I suppose. Yes, we are not brahma to become Vishnu in 1 sec, but in the Murlis it is said that this study is a matter of only one second. So it should be like this, isn’t it? I suppose it is about us also.
Dear brother ex-l
The facts you supply only prove the knowledge, not just as exceptions, but as the part where it states about the disunity of the kings. All of these occurrences happen only after the beginning of Copper Age when different religions come, so different way of behavior can be observed. India is meant not for the land but for the soul that is living. This soul has always been there and is here even now.
I have chosen to accept this knowledge without mixing it with other knowledge. If the observed manmat is considered offensive, that for me it is inevitable, after I do have my own mind and thinking. If one likes that there is no manmat mixed, one should take Shrimat directly from the Supreme Soul.
I think it is not possible terms from the outside world to be mixed with the terms of knowledge of the Supreme Soul. It’s knowledge meant for the world of Brahmins mainly that is a very small closed family with its own ways, terms, expressions that cannot be and should not be explained or understood on a superficial level of direct understanding. It is practical knowledge for the way we should live our life. There is no such knowledge in school. How will these facts help. One cannot and should not mix the knowledge of the Supreme Soul with anything else from the outside world, because they are presented with different purpose and in different way (context)/one is supposed to be a fact, other may have different, deeper, metaphorical sense/.
The history we study at school will not give us liberation or salvation, but the history the Supreme Soul narrates will liberate us from sorrow for many births. So, brother if you would like to continue to caution me, then I will also caution you, to please, choose once which side do you belong to entirely. Why sit in between. Either oppose with full force or surrender your intellect completely to one Supreme Soul. Bhakti, sanskars, manmat – all these terms belong to the knowledge of the Supreme Soul, at least in the way they are presented, isn’t it. We should always have the attitude as to whose knowledge it is, and to present it like that…I suppose Baba said this.
I also write in my own way, due to my own interest I don’t undertand…why would anyone say to it ”blah, blah, blah” It is not polite. If one does not accept it is his own choice. Why should he read? If one thinks I need to be corrected, etc, than please do privately. Why revealing my shortcomings to people…and shortcomings of knowledge /there are no such/. There should be attitude of compassion, condolences and of uplifting one another, isn’t it?
When I say Baba says, I do try to convey what he has said because he speaks. Why should I not say like that. In the Murli itself it is said we should say Baba says when saying what he has said. Yes, it is possible that on not knowing what he has said that one would think I have made it up myself. But brother, I try to put from myself the least the possible, but I also accept I’m a separate individual that is not the Supreme Soul, and thus have a different understanding, it is so natural.
Dear mother Aimee,
Yes, why not. Is it an ordinary study like in the outside world where we make a lot of effort for only one birth and there is no guarantee for even this. Is it an ordinary man who teaches? It is a matter for the whole Kalpa. Baba says /I cannot put Virendra Dev Dixit here, because it is not this name that is the name of Baba/ it is even possible that we stay happy for 82-83 births, studying this knowledge.
In the Murlis it is said we can become complete if we had Yaad for 8 hours. Yes, we may study a long time, to understand correctly and deeply, we can remember only one for a long time, to become free from the colour of the company of many different companies, but the moment we become free, the moment of cutting, the moment of changing the suffering of karma into karma Yoga, the crucifixion to a torn, the transformation is of one second, I suppose. Yes, we are not brahma to become Vishnu in 1 sec, but in the Murlis it is said that this study is a matter of only one second. So it should be like this, isn’t it? I suppose it is about us also.
Dear brother ex-l
The facts you supply only prove the knowledge, not just as exceptions, but as the part where it states about the disunity of the kings. All of these occurrences happen only after the beginning of Copper Age when different religions come, so different way of behavior can be observed. India is meant not for the land but for the soul that is living. This soul has always been there and is here even now.
I have chosen to accept this knowledge without mixing it with other knowledge. If the observed manmat is considered offensive, that for me it is inevitable, after I do have my own mind and thinking. If one likes that there is no manmat mixed, one should take Shrimat directly from the Supreme Soul.
I think it is not possible terms from the outside world to be mixed with the terms of knowledge of the Supreme Soul. It’s knowledge meant for the world of Brahmins mainly that is a very small closed family with its own ways, terms, expressions that cannot be and should not be explained or understood on a superficial level of direct understanding. It is practical knowledge for the way we should live our life. There is no such knowledge in school. How will these facts help. One cannot and should not mix the knowledge of the Supreme Soul with anything else from the outside world, because they are presented with different purpose and in different way (context)/one is supposed to be a fact, other may have different, deeper, metaphorical sense/.
The history we study at school will not give us liberation or salvation, but the history the Supreme Soul narrates will liberate us from sorrow for many births. So, brother if you would like to continue to caution me, then I will also caution you, to please, choose once which side do you belong to entirely. Why sit in between. Either oppose with full force or surrender your intellect completely to one Supreme Soul. Bhakti, sanskars, manmat – all these terms belong to the knowledge of the Supreme Soul, at least in the way they are presented, isn’t it. We should always have the attitude as to whose knowledge it is, and to present it like that…I suppose Baba said this.
I also write in my own way, due to my own interest I don’t undertand…why would anyone say to it ”blah, blah, blah” It is not polite. If one does not accept it is his own choice. Why should he read? If one thinks I need to be corrected, etc, than please do privately. Why revealing my shortcomings to people…and shortcomings of knowledge /there are no such/. There should be attitude of compassion, condolences and of uplifting one another, isn’t it?
When I say Baba says, I do try to convey what he has said because he speaks. Why should I not say like that. In the Murli itself it is said we should say Baba says when saying what he has said. Yes, it is possible that on not knowing what he has said that one would think I have made it up myself. But brother, I try to put from myself the least the possible, but I also accept I’m a separate individual that is not the Supreme Soul, and thus have a different understanding, it is so natural.
Dear brothers ex-l and Andrey,
I understand your points of views are totally different, and your disagreement is becoming more and more out of control, the best way when someone is getting in our nerve is to stay silent, it is not worth it, not to spoil the so far harmonious exchanges in this website. Otherwise you could take in private your dispute and try to resolve it?
with sincere good feelings
Aimée
I understand your points of views are totally different, and your disagreement is becoming more and more out of control, the best way when someone is getting in our nerve is to stay silent, it is not worth it, not to spoil the so far harmonious exchanges in this website. Otherwise you could take in private your dispute and try to resolve it?
with sincere good feelings
Aimée
It has been said in the Murlis that if one dies in heaven he is reborn in heaven if one dies in hell, he is reborn in hell, so we should be 100% sure that in this life we are in heaven, so that we can happily leave the body to take birth in heaven.
I suppose in human life half the life, when someone is young he does not think of the past a lot and expects what the future will bring. Then maybe from some point of time one starts seeing that in front of him there is not so much time left and there is a longer cue looking back in his past. Probably this way, now when we stand in the Confluence Age, because we should remember the whole cycle, we can see half of it as our future and half as past.
Our aim is to become equal isn’t it. We have to maintain stage of equality in victory and defeat. Is it that when we see the future we will see more of a victory and when we see the past we will see more of a defeat? And now when we stand in the Confluence Age and have knowledge of both we can see them both with no bad feeling inside.
I suppose in human life half the life, when someone is young he does not think of the past a lot and expects what the future will bring. Then maybe from some point of time one starts seeing that in front of him there is not so much time left and there is a longer cue looking back in his past. Probably this way, now when we stand in the Confluence Age, because we should remember the whole cycle, we can see half of it as our future and half as past.
Our aim is to become equal isn’t it. We have to maintain stage of equality in victory and defeat. Is it that when we see the future we will see more of a victory and when we see the past we will see more of a defeat? And now when we stand in the Confluence Age and have knowledge of both we can see them both with no bad feeling inside.
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fluffy bunny
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I trust your good feelings are sincere Aimée but it is not about "points of views", it is about facts. My point is there was no such place as the one mythical 'India' in history; just as there was no such one State of Europe.Aimée wrote:I understand your points of views are totally different, and your disagreement is becoming more and more out of control, the best way when someone is getting in our nerve is to stay silent, it is not worth it, not to spoil the so far harmonious exchanges in this website. Otherwise you could take in private your dispute and try to resolve it? Maybe I did not interpret it in the right way but I know at least that the French behaved so badly in North Africa, and all the colonies in the rest of Africa?
We are all here on this forum, every one of us, to help Andrey become perfect. And for my part, I am very happy to hold up a fine mirror for him to look in. OK, one question;
Andrey wrote:India is meant not for the land but for the soul that is living.
- Is this true? Can I have a Murli point that back that up? If Andrey is correct, then what is the meaning of ;
In the history, 'the soul' has never gone on march to conquer lands ...
- I don't understand that and I don't remember God saying that either.
All wars are because of women ...
- or
Now, both statements are wrong. The first likely to cause deep offence to at least 50% of the population of the world - and disservice to the faith we share. [ The first is like the Sanyasis Baba quotes in the Sakar Murlis saying that women are like snakes and the cause of all evil. Perhaps Andrey still has strong Sanyasi sanskars? ]. Are women not souls too? What should we do, just stand by silent and allow someone to do such disservice? For his own good some one has to say something.In the history, India has never gone on march to conquer lands ...
Perhaps Andrey is talking metaphorically and what he really means, or wants to talk about is something personal.
Aimée, I call my self ex- because I do not want to bring disservice upon any god or religion. If I am wrong, then it is my wrong. If I am ignorant, then it is my ignorance. I am not going to use 'Baba says' as a club on others nor cloak to hide behind. It may seem strange to you but I care about the way in which 'God' is represented. A diamond looks best and ought be set in the gold.
My feeling about Andrey is that he suffers from a lack of being close to and in regular contact with any Divine Family. Sanga, Satsang, Family - whatever you want to call it - is a very important part of spiritual growth. Accepting the spiritual authority of others, learning from the experience of equals, studying the good service plans and actions of our superiors likewise.
It is in 'the Family' that we see our own reflection, good and bad, and I think it is dangerous not to because otherwise unacceptable sanskars take root and grow strong that would otherwise cut short at the roots. Learning 'Theorical Brahminism" from paper or websites will not work. Am I right or wrong?
Now, to a degree, this forum does and will act as a Satsang for individuals that are far apart. I am genuinely concerned by the negative impression he might make is some newcomer comes along and read such stuff. What will they think? If he had and accepted a teacher, a senior PBK for advice, then I think that his teacher might say the same thing. My fear is that he will go on to cause disservice in this manner. So what do I / we do? Sadly, I have seen too much of this kind of behaviour amongst BKs.
4 subjects ...
Dear brother,
War is not a bad thing. To lead a war for a good purpouse is good. It is said that there is no greater happiness for an individual than to lead a righteous war. It is not a matter of phisical war of violence. God does not come to teach this. It's a war of knowledge between the truth and the falsehood where the truth will ultimately win. /the knowledge God gives will change the world/ It is a beneficial war that will bring heaven on earth, because peace cannot be there - here in the kingdom of falsehood /Ravan/. That's why this war cannot be avoided. Those who run away from the battlefield cannot be awarded the medal of victory. It is also a war inside against the sanskars that belong to Ravan.
This way the statement that all war are for the sake of a woman does not mean something bad for woman, but on the contrary, they inspire man, they give them power to lead the war that is beneficial and they also inspire the war itself. Like in the beginning it has been Brahma that started the friction.
The "soul" did not go to conquer lands. Land means woman. He has not had an eye for another woman. He did not chase anyone for vice.
Satsang means gathering of truth, it is a gathering where the truth is there. If it could be a network satsang then, please, show me where is the truth.
Which is this important soul that is expected to visit, read here and have an impression. Whom is it made for?
Dear brother if i could do the disservice of turning people away from God...it is my bad fortune...however will i be able to stop the service of God? It is not possible. Avyakt BapDada asked in a Vani of the last season...has someone succeded in stopping the morning from coming...
Since you have continued to caution me, then i will also continue. What is visible from your posts is that neither BKs nor PBKs are good, so if you would like to do the service of pointing to One, then where can this one be found? It should be in a positive way. One cannot say all are bad...does it mean only you are good. It cannot be so.
Dear brother, since you have shown the desire to give your company in a network way, then please, if it is convenient for you, come and be my guest in a phisical way.
One can bet i put from myself on speaking, but don't feel bad about it beacasue i don't try to fool people. After i know whom i have found there is benefit over benefit for me. It is also possible to change loss into benefit. Defect into effect. Defeat into victory.
Sanyasi sanskars....it is not nessesary that one has these sanskars a lot...yes when the other religions come they start to colour deities whith their different sanskars, but the soul of Ram /and maybe some others souls like him/ fight against these foreign religions till the end and are not coloured a lot. Like for instance there is only one true soul. What does it mean. That he fights falsehood all the time and don't submit at all, never. Others submit and are coloured a little bit numberwise.
In the Murlis it is said that the light of the soul never extinguishes completely. It's the light of knowledge is not it. The knowledge whom do i belong to, which religion do i belong to never extinguishes in this soul of Prajapita. There is only one true religion that ShivBaba comes and establishes. They are in fact three /Brahmin, deity, warrior/ but the path is one. Which path? The path of pure household.
There is only one spiritual authority that i would accept. Why should i accept any other, why should i put anyone superiour to me, when the spiritual authority i accept does not make me feel him superiour than me.
Yes, i have no problem being with the familly, and without offense i would, please, refuse your help of a mirror. In a point of time all become your enemies and one has only one friend. It is only one ShivBaba who can change human beings into deities and make them perfect. It cannot be any other human being. Be it ex-l himself.
I see the point...i have said i would be off the forum but still post. It is a shorcoming.
The way i study and practice needs no comment.
War is not a bad thing. To lead a war for a good purpouse is good. It is said that there is no greater happiness for an individual than to lead a righteous war. It is not a matter of phisical war of violence. God does not come to teach this. It's a war of knowledge between the truth and the falsehood where the truth will ultimately win. /the knowledge God gives will change the world/ It is a beneficial war that will bring heaven on earth, because peace cannot be there - here in the kingdom of falsehood /Ravan/. That's why this war cannot be avoided. Those who run away from the battlefield cannot be awarded the medal of victory. It is also a war inside against the sanskars that belong to Ravan.
This way the statement that all war are for the sake of a woman does not mean something bad for woman, but on the contrary, they inspire man, they give them power to lead the war that is beneficial and they also inspire the war itself. Like in the beginning it has been Brahma that started the friction.
The "soul" did not go to conquer lands. Land means woman. He has not had an eye for another woman. He did not chase anyone for vice.
Satsang means gathering of truth, it is a gathering where the truth is there. If it could be a network satsang then, please, show me where is the truth.
Which is this important soul that is expected to visit, read here and have an impression. Whom is it made for?
Dear brother if i could do the disservice of turning people away from God...it is my bad fortune...however will i be able to stop the service of God? It is not possible. Avyakt BapDada asked in a Vani of the last season...has someone succeded in stopping the morning from coming...
Since you have continued to caution me, then i will also continue. What is visible from your posts is that neither BKs nor PBKs are good, so if you would like to do the service of pointing to One, then where can this one be found? It should be in a positive way. One cannot say all are bad...does it mean only you are good. It cannot be so.
Dear brother, since you have shown the desire to give your company in a network way, then please, if it is convenient for you, come and be my guest in a phisical way.
One can bet i put from myself on speaking, but don't feel bad about it beacasue i don't try to fool people. After i know whom i have found there is benefit over benefit for me. It is also possible to change loss into benefit. Defect into effect. Defeat into victory.
Sanyasi sanskars....it is not nessesary that one has these sanskars a lot...yes when the other religions come they start to colour deities whith their different sanskars, but the soul of Ram /and maybe some others souls like him/ fight against these foreign religions till the end and are not coloured a lot. Like for instance there is only one true soul. What does it mean. That he fights falsehood all the time and don't submit at all, never. Others submit and are coloured a little bit numberwise.
In the Murlis it is said that the light of the soul never extinguishes completely. It's the light of knowledge is not it. The knowledge whom do i belong to, which religion do i belong to never extinguishes in this soul of Prajapita. There is only one true religion that ShivBaba comes and establishes. They are in fact three /Brahmin, deity, warrior/ but the path is one. Which path? The path of pure household.
There is only one spiritual authority that i would accept. Why should i accept any other, why should i put anyone superiour to me, when the spiritual authority i accept does not make me feel him superiour than me.
Yes, i have no problem being with the familly, and without offense i would, please, refuse your help of a mirror. In a point of time all become your enemies and one has only one friend. It is only one ShivBaba who can change human beings into deities and make them perfect. It cannot be any other human being. Be it ex-l himself.
I see the point...i have said i would be off the forum but still post. It is a shorcoming.
The way i study and practice needs no comment.
In the Murlis it is said that there is only one shop and Baba is the Greatest Businessman. We know he is also very innocent Businessman because what we give are our weaknesses /vices/ and what we receive is the kingdom of the whole world. What does it mean kingdom of the world? What does it mean this kingdom that nobody can snatch away from us that he gives. He gives peace and happiness to the mind -intellect. In the shop there are various articles. No 1, no 2 quantity of peace and happiness. We can like to buy No 1. What do we pay with? Is it our vices, that the more vicious we are the more peace and happiness we get, or is it that we have to pay with effortsto conquer the vices.
Dear shivsena,
It is only the Supreme Soul who can create ek mat and unity. If you think he has not come, there is no reason to expect this in the BK familly. However, you draw a completely different picture of God than we know.
It is said that some accept some oppose, some are victorious, some defeated. There is war. You expect that all will accept at once. No. To be established this one opinion, all other opinions also are detroyed.
For example, it is also said that only 8 will come out 'civil eyesed' and all the rest will receive punishment.
It is only the Supreme Soul who can create ek mat and unity. If you think he has not come, there is no reason to expect this in the BK familly. However, you draw a completely different picture of God than we know.
It is said that some accept some oppose, some are victorious, some defeated. There is war. You expect that all will accept at once. No. To be established this one opinion, all other opinions also are detroyed.
For example, it is also said that only 8 will come out 'civil eyesed' and all the rest will receive punishment.
-
shivsena
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Dear andrey Bhai.andrey wrote:For example, it is also said that only 8 will come out 'civil eyesed' and all the rest will receive punishment.
You will be punished very soon, if you don't stop replying irrelevantly on this pbk forum.
i hope that the administrators do something about andrey soon enough, before things go out of hand.
shivsena.
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fluffy bunny
- ex-BKWSU
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One incident where you and I differ, shivasena, is that I am actually grateful for andrey's involvement (although I am concerned for the PBKs PR image).
For me andrey is a wonderful teacher in reverse. By his comments, he actually inspires me to go and learn more about the reality of the stuff he comes out with. Subjects which I otherwise only had a passing awareness of.
At this point, I come to decide that he is actually an "Islamicist" with the BK family. Indeed, that he belongs to the very Caliphate and the India he reminisces of is the Mogul Empire. I don't know if this resonates with you, but perhaps if you try to conceiving of it in this way, then it may help.
I shall look forward to meeting him again when I ride with the Knights Templar! :D
For me andrey is a wonderful teacher in reverse. By his comments, he actually inspires me to go and learn more about the reality of the stuff he comes out with. Subjects which I otherwise only had a passing awareness of.
At this point, I come to decide that he is actually an "Islamicist" with the BK family. Indeed, that he belongs to the very Caliphate and the India he reminisces of is the Mogul Empire. I don't know if this resonates with you, but perhaps if you try to conceiving of it in this way, then it may help.
I shall look forward to meeting him again when I ride with the Knights Templar! :D
-
arjun
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Om Shanti.
While we are discussing the theoretical aspects of the definition of being a PBK, but we are forgetting the practical aspects of being a PBK.
I think respecting each other's views is also a qualification of being a PBK.
I hope that honourable members would keep this aspect in their minds even while expressing their differences of opinion.
Shivsena Bhai's dealings with me on this forum has resulted in my decreased interest in the PBK section, but his dealings with Andrey Bhai in this Section makes me think if I should even read the non-sticky threads in the PBK section.
I know that many members are not happy with Andrey Bhai's views. I did not defend him in the past and will not do so even now as I may be accused of showing undue favour. That is the reason I have not written any private mail either to Andrey Bhai or to Shivsena Bhai about their mutual dealings on this forum or regarding my relationship with Shivsena Bhai on this forum.
I cannot speak about non-PBKs, but when ShivBaba (either through Brahma Baba or through Baba Virendra Dev Dixit) or Avyakt BapDada (through Gulzar Dadiji) has not used abusive language while speaking to the BKs & PBKs, then a PBK member of this forum definitely does not deserve to be addressed with abusive language by a fellow PBK member of this forum.
Regards,
OGS,
Arjun
While we are discussing the theoretical aspects of the definition of being a PBK, but we are forgetting the practical aspects of being a PBK.
I think respecting each other's views is also a qualification of being a PBK.
I hope that honourable members would keep this aspect in their minds even while expressing their differences of opinion.
Shivsena Bhai's dealings with me on this forum has resulted in my decreased interest in the PBK section, but his dealings with Andrey Bhai in this Section makes me think if I should even read the non-sticky threads in the PBK section.
I know that many members are not happy with Andrey Bhai's views. I did not defend him in the past and will not do so even now as I may be accused of showing undue favour. That is the reason I have not written any private mail either to Andrey Bhai or to Shivsena Bhai about their mutual dealings on this forum or regarding my relationship with Shivsena Bhai on this forum.
I cannot speak about non-PBKs, but when ShivBaba (either through Brahma Baba or through Baba Virendra Dev Dixit) or Avyakt BapDada (through Gulzar Dadiji) has not used abusive language while speaking to the BKs & PBKs, then a PBK member of this forum definitely does not deserve to be addressed with abusive language by a fellow PBK member of this forum.
Regards,
OGS,
Arjun
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shivsena
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Dear arjun Bhai.arjun wrote: There is a possibility that they may or may not receive the same answer depending on their karmic accounts or grasping power. In a recent Discussion CD recorded at a south Indian city ShivBaba through Baba Veerendra Dev Dixit said that there could be 10-12 answers possible for every question. He also gave an example of Jain religion in this regard. I will try to quote it when the CD is released.
If ShivBaba (as you say) is giving subjective answers according to the intellect of the soul then what is the absolute truth (truth should be objective, not subjective)? If it is ShivBaba giving answers, then everytime He speaks (whether answering or otherwise), it should be the truth and nothing else but the truth (Murlis say "satya bap kewal satya hi bataenge"). So does this not constitute enough logical proof that it is not ShivBaba who is talking but Krishna who is giving the answers according to the intellect of the soul?
Your decreased interest in the pbk section is your own undoing. Please do not blame others for your own shortcoming. When you are on a battlefield and you cannot face an onslaught, that is the time you start running away, and blame others or cry foul to hide your weakness.arjun wrote: Shivsena Bhai's dealings with me on this forum has resulted in my decreased interest in the PBK section, but his dealings with Andrey Bhai in this Section makes me think if I should even read the non-sticky threads in the PBK section.
If you want to read or run away from my sticky posts, it is entirely your decision; do not give an excuse for leaving. You can hate me, or like me, or criticise me, but you cannot ignore me. The seed of my churnings, which have been implanted in your mind, will not leave you even in your dreams.
shivsena.
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fluffy bunny
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There is a saying in English that, "your best friends are not necessarily those that are best for you, merely those that got there first".
For those wearing a label in this forum that they care about, whose actions might reflect onto others wearing the same label and even their spiritual guides ... please take care of it and give a thought for others that might come later.
For those wearing a label in this forum that they care about, whose actions might reflect onto others wearing the same label and even their spiritual guides ... please take care of it and give a thought for others that might come later.
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