Accurate Yaad (Accurate Remembrance)

[mbbhat]

[]Why not the similar query be asked to you? 1) How will you distinguish the two points (Shiv & Brahma) in the subtle or corporeal body of Lekhraj Kirpalani and 2) what do you BKs mean by "Remember me alone? Forget body & all bodily relations"?

Dear soul,

Congratulations for your strong response. There are many points, hence need to summarise together and will answer to global soul. I have already mentioned it in this thread. Also please note the first question(distinguishing) was raised by arjun. Not by me. Hence I need not anwer to that. I have ALREADY explained in detail for the second one. See my first post (most probably page No. 8) in this thread.

But I will try to give satisfactory explanation to the first one, just wait. You can react however you like.

Thanks and All the best

[paulkershaw]

Is it not strange that GPS (Global Positioning Sytems) maps are often not accurate - they remember the road but if you follow their directions 100% you'll end up driving into a brick wall often times.

Is accurate remembrance not the same experience, a hit and run process, depending on the model of GPS you have? For a GPS to have to work accurately, it has to be in contact 100% of the time with a satellite and if that's busy, the map goes wrong for a while too. I takes TWO systems to work as one. Same as "remembrance" - if God's busy that morning, so will one's accuracy be out.

[mbbhat]

1) How can you consider the Avyakt the same as the Murlis and why would God need to speak through Brahma through the Avyakt? It makes no sense. If God is speaking through the Dadi's than why are they not called ShivBaba?
2) Dadi Lekrahj is with God than why did he leave his children? If God is not needed here on earth than couldn't he make all the changes up above without any need for us to have an introduction?
3) If you believe that the Murli is the word of God would it not make sense that hearing it from the mouth is much more authentic than reading it from a book or text which is dead?
4) I find it interesting you remember a point of light but pose the same question to a PBK about Veerendra Dev Dixit on how they know which point of light is in Veerendra Dev Dixit?
How in the world do you know your point of light is God?

Dear global soul,

1) I have said that I believe both Brahma and Shiva are present in Gulzar Dadi's body while speaking Murlis. Hence it is BapDada.One or two Murlis were just by Brahmababa, when he became Avyakt in 1969. BKs say ShivBaba or BapDada even now. Both Sakar and Avyakt Murlis are versions of Shiva and Brahma which always direct to remember Shiva.

2) It is clearly mentioned in Sakar Murli that when this (Brahma) become pure, he will shed his body and will become Avyakt. Have not you read or hear this? Another thing is- Brahma should leave body. Then only SON (children) SHOWS Father (Both Shiva and Brahma) can become true. If the Father exists in corporeal all the time, then this cannot be true. Even without the Father, if children can carry Father's task, they are the great children! Then only it implies that Father has really given property (made powerful) to chidren.

Yes, God can do everything without giving introduction. But, then who should be sent to heaven? So, effort should be done by the individual also. For that He has to give knowledge and for that he needs media. God has to give sufficient time to everybody so that nobody can complain God.

3) Spoon feeding is needed only to babies or small children. Baba has also said, in the end, new children will come and gallop very fast. A good doctor can prescribe medicine just by seeing the patient and listenig to his beats by holding the hand(in Kannada language, we say, naadibadita). A poor doctor needs scanning report, X ray report, etc. *Murli or any point is avinaashi. It is never dead. It is also said that good books are best friends. Eventhough many scientists have passed away, their effort is safe in books. So why cannot Murli serve?
Actually both have value. By hearing directly, we get more. That is why BKs go for milan. But by reading we can go more deep, because we can read it more than once. *But, ultimately what is the goal? Become soul-conscious, Avyakt. Forget whatever you see. So, all these things become silly and what you remember is the one which actually holds value.

4) See below for the fourth one.

1) If you remember Shiva in a body, then it is impossible to distinguish Shiva from the other point. Because there is at least one more point(the original soul) in the body. Hence PBKs are contradicting their own statement by saying the necessity of distinguishing.

2) Baba has said in Murli- “Consider it is Shiva speaking always even though Brahma speaks” . This also implies that there is no need to remember even Brahma’s soul.

3) Shiva is bodyless. So making compulsory to remember Shiva in a body is like mis-understanding Shiva.

4) God’s power is infinity. Hence there is no need to fix a place to remember him. So you can consider Shiva anywhere you like.

5) The volume of corporeal world is very less compared to incorporeal world. The rest of the space is incorporeal world. That is, 99.9999999….% of the space is incorporeal world and most of the duration in Drama Shiva is present in incorporeal world. So, if you are going to fix a place to him for remembrance, it has to be incorporeal world (logically). Another point here is there is necessity to get disinterest from this Iron Aged world. Human mind cannot remember anything without having fixing in a place. So to get concentration, baba has fixed that place(But, I do not give much importance to this arguement)

6) It is very difficult to make understand even intellectual people like us. Then just imagine the difficulty in making uneducated women in the beginning of Yagya. So Baba was saying many methods, like sit in front of Tree picture, etc.

7) Baba has said in Murli- ‘remembering Baba and forgetting the body- both are same’. Just see the point. Then what is the need of distinguishing? But unfortunately, I do not have date of this Murli.

8) Since soul is invisible and beyond nature, it is foolishness to try to distinguish Shiva through corporeal things. Even when you remember (get concentrated in) the soul, you will automatically forget the present body. That is why baba sometimes says, in sleep the soul becomes ashareeri (bodyless).

9) If you think of this (present) body, you will become body-conscious. Because there is just attachment which is bondage. If you think more than one body, say of 84 births, you will become soul conscious. Because there is both attachment (love, pyaaraa) and detachment (nyaaraa).

10) One interesting thing is, the present body is the most impure, because it is of the last birth. One is intellectual if he thinks best. Hence I think, suggesting to think of the present body (let it be Brahma’s, Virendra Dev Dixit’s or one’s own) is totally ignorance. Baba also says, chitr ko nahee dekh, charitr ko dekho (Do not see body of a person, see virtues or great actions done by the person).

There are a lot of points in Murli that explains remembrance. But, I do not know how to proceed since I do not have Murli points with date. Anyhow, I will try to explain better what exactly I do in remembrance.

[arjun]

*You have not replied to me how will you distinguish the three points in Veerendra Diksit's body

Although I have answered your question, you have made my task easier by repeating my answer in your post addressed to global:

2) Baba has said in Murli- “Consider it is Shiva speaking always even though Brahma speaks” . This also implies that there is no need to remember even Brahma’s soul.

the meaning of "Remember me alone; Forget body and all bodily relations"

I think I have clarified this as well. But for your information, I would like to repeat that 'remember me alone' cannot be applied to a point of light. How can you distinguish the Supreme Soul from other souls when all are points of light in the Supreme Abode? Are souls physical things giving out physical light to distinguish on the basis of the physical light emitted by them?

The uniqueness of the Supreme Soul can be recognized by other souls only when He comes in a physical body and acts, speaks in a manner that is not possible by other souls, i.e. He shows that He is an ocean of peace, ocean of purity, ocean of love through actions in practical by coming in a human body. Only then can one remember Him alone by forgetting the body and bodily relations.
Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

[mbbhat]

Dear Arjun,

You still have not explained how to distinguish physically the three points in Virendra Dev Dixit's body. When Baba says, forget whatever you see through body, how can you say we should remember Virendra Dev Dixit's body also?

[fluffy bunny]

How can you distinguish the Supreme Soul from other souls when all are points of light in the Supreme Abode?

This kind of debate has arisen time and time again on both side of the argument. Please, is it PBK rhetoric or BK rhetoric? Where does it come from because it is not a line of debate that arises in the West.

I don't see the issue. In matter, two object can have the same shape and size but entirely different masses or specific gravity. Two twins can have entirely different qualities. Where is the 'feel' factor? The active 'attraction' factor.

Why the negative presumption that one soul cannot 'sense' another soul by its "spiritual vibrations" without the need for very basic materialistic 'see' assumptions. You both appear to be stuck on a very basic 'seeing' of an inanimate spark of light, excluding that it is supposed to be a sentient being.

How, or even why, could or should anyone "distinguish physically" non-physical entities?

[arjun]

You still have not explained how to distinguish physically the three points in Veerendra Dev Dixit's body.When Baba says, forget whatever you see through body, how can you say we should remember Veerendra Dev Dixit's body also?

First of all can we distinguish souls physically? No.

Secondly I have written so many times that we (i.e. PBKs) have to visualize only the Supreme Soul Shiv through the body of Baba Virendra Dev Dixit because Baba has said that you have to see the "incorporeal through the corporeal" and "not just the incorporeal" or "not just the corporeal". When we are not seeing the other two souls (i.e. souls of Brahma and Baba Virendra Dev Dixit) in the body of Baba Virendra Dev Dixit, then where is the question of distinguishing them physically? I have already provided Murli proofs for ShivBaba's directions to remember Him through the corporeal. Either you don't want to read them or they don't mean anything to you.

But for your kind information I am producing another proof, this time it is with the original date, i.e. 23.12.58:
“देखो भारत में जितनी सबको छुट्टियाँ मिलती हैं इतनी और कहाँ नहीं मिलती, परन्तु यहाँ हमको एक सेकेण्ड भी छुट्टी नहीं मिलती क्योंकि बाबा कहते हैं श्वासों श्वांस याद में रहो। एक-एक श्वांस अमोलक है। तो वेस्ट कैसे कर सकते। ... तुम आलमाइटी बाबा के ऊपर आशिक हो या उनके रथ पर? या दोनों पर? जरूर दोनों का आशिक होना पड़े। बुद्धि में यह रहेगा कि वह इस रथ में है। उनके कारण तुम इस पर आशिक हुए हो। शिव के मन्दिर में भी बैल रखा हुआ है। वह भी पूजा जाता है। कितनी गुह्य बातें हैं।“ (ब्रह्माकुमारियों द्वारा प्रकाशित रिवाइज़्ड साकार मुरली दिनांक २७.०२.०८, पृ. ३ एवं ४, जो मूल रूप से रात्रि क्लास, दिनांक २३.१२.५८ है)

“ Look, nowhere else do people get as many holidays as in India. But here we do not get leisure time of even a second because Baba says – Be in remembrance every breath. Every breath is valuable. So, how can we waste? ... Do you love the Almighty Baba or His Chariot? Or both? Definitely you have to love both. The intellect would remember that He is in this Chariot. You love this one because of Him. Even in the temple of Shiv a bull is placed. It is also worshipped. These are so deep matters.” (Revised Sakar Murli dated 27.02.08, pg.3&4 published by BKs in Hindi, narrated by ShivBaba through Brahma Baba; translated by a PBK; the words within brackets in the English version have been added by the translator to clarify the meaning)

The above Murli clearly says that you have to love both the Almighy Baba and His Chariot and that the intellect would remember that He is in this Chariot. Well, you will say that this Murli is not applicable after 1969. But I cannot explain you beyond that. We believe Shiv to be present in this world and you think He is in Paramdham. So, if you feel satisfied in remembering Him there you may continue to do so.

With regards,
OGS,
Arjun

[bansy]

If ShivBaba is able to enter a Chariot, then it means He is able to stay in the Chariot for an indefinite period. Where else can He go. In which case, is it possible to request ShivBaba or BapDada to remain in situ for 1 hour, or 10 hours or even 100 hours in one sitting etc ? Even if bodily functions need to be fulfilled or that the body needs nutrition for energy to continue, well those are just normal bodily functions that any common sensical person knows, so this is not a problem as surely the joys of the presence of Father Shiva will outweigh any physical needs of the body for practical purposes ? And it only takes a couple of minutes to relief oneself and a quick snack is enough.

I suppose the question I am posing is why are BapDada meetings only a few hours long ? And why in the evening ? Why not from the morning, throughout the day and into early evening ? In lokik life, children go to sleep at 10.00pm. Then why does BapDada come up so late in the evening and upto midnight ? On the one hand you are to wake up at 4.00am and go to bed before 10pm (Madhuban rules), yet on the other hand BapDada himself breaks these very rules. Can any BK child answer this ?

What time did Father Shiva some into Brahma Baba (Lekhraj Kirpalani) to speak the Murli and why are the hours changed now ? Any BK child able to understand this ? Where was Father Shiva when Brahma Baba (Lekhraj Kirpalani) was taking a hike up through Lake Nakka and up the rock ?

I don't know about ShivBaba (via Virendra Dev Dixit) but a similar question poses for the PBKs, i.e. what times during the day is ShivBaba (Virendra Dev Dixit) present.

[mbbhat]

Dear Global soul,

1) When two ladies see a small boy crying, both do not experience the same. The mother will experience sorrow. The other lady may not. Both see and understand the situation to the same extent. But the ACCEPTANCY is different. One feels that the child in MINE, the other feels that Child is not mine.

2) Similarly, a mother can love her child even if the child is present among 10 children. She selects her child and embraces her child. Suppose, say the mother does not know who her child is. Now, this is our case. We know that Shiva is a point, but do not know who is he among 600 crores.

*I have already said that it is impossible to distinguish Shiva physically by any means since Shiva does not have body of his own. But, there is difference. Every soul is unique. What I do is, “I visualize (think of) two points and consider one of them myself and the other as ShivBaba. Unless you consider yourself as a point (soul), you cannot remember ShivBaba (Supreme Soul).

I distinguish the points intellectually. I consider one point (myself) to be child of the other point (Baba). I consider the other point as Ocean of knowledge, love, bliss, peace, etc (you all know). I consider the first point (myself) as a lucky soul in the Drama and just feel immersed in love of the other point.

3) A person may get heart attack and die when he hears a bad message. (The same message can be nothing to another). Why? It is because of acceptancy. For acceptancy, clear understanding (knowledge) and faith (love) are necessary. A child will not get heart attack even if its mother dies. It will just cry. Because it has no knowledge of life.

So if a negative thought can kill a person, cannot a positive thought build character of a person? This is what Baba does.

It is not possible to make a child get stressed. Because it does not have ego. It has only limited knowledge. Unless ego develops, you can’t proceed. Due to body-consciuousness, wrong ego develops which forces us to do negative actions and we experience negative pleasures and pain. Soul consciousness develops right ego (swamaan) and you get elevated. You enjoy positive pleasures and there is no pain at all. Even the pain(tests) will become pleasure later. *A good student may sacrifice his sleep to score better marks. He does not feel unhappy or tired, because the result brings happiness. Similarly the obstacles in Brahmin life bring happiness if the BK is an honest student.

*So, I think we have to differentiate intellectually and not by corporeal things.

4) Another thing:- I do not think Paramdham is full of light. It will be darkness to physical eyes. Then why it said, “It is Golden yellow color?”. We human beings are totally body-conscious. We cannot remember something what we cannot see. We cannot see anything without light. We cannot think or concentrate what we cannot see. Gold is the best one. So, it might have been said, Paramdham is golden yellow.

5) Soul is divine light and might:- Anything that radiates is light. Everyone radiates his personality (except deadbody). This is why man loves or fears of man due to positive or negative qualities of the other. So, it is the soul that radiates. Hence I consider the meaning of light as power to think, discriminate and act. More positive you are, more you can influence.

6) But, while remembering (Yoga), I will consider two lights (points) in a world of light. Then what else is better than this? *Can you think of an electron? We draw an electron to much a larger scale, but are conscious that its radius is in the order of 1/(ten to the power of 33, something). Do you say, “electron is not like that, the drawing is wrong”. If you say like that, you can never progress. You can never study. Later, when you do research you may get microscope and understand better. But again, if you are given microscopic view in the beginning itself, you will NOT UNDERSTAND ANYTHING!. So initially all these things are needed.

Similarly I think two points of a comfortable size in light, but have in conscious that I am really not physical.

7) So, in learning anything, there are many methods; listening, reading, audio visual aids, etc. So all the methods are right. I am not against PBKs’ method of remembering Shiva in VD’s body. Even many BKs today remember Shiva in Brahma’s body. BUT WHEN PBKs SAY THEIR METHOD ONLY IS CORRECT (making compulsory to remember body also with the soul), I do not agree with it. This is why I had asked them how much control you (PBKs) have over your organs. Ultimately, that alone can explain what true Yaad is. Otherwise these discussions will be very lengthy and never end.

If ShivBaba is able to enter a Chariot, then it means He is able to stay in the Chariot for an indefinite period. Where else can He go. I suppose the question I am posing is why are BapDada meetings only a few hours long ? And why in the evening ? Why not from the morning, throughout the day and into early evening ? In lokik life, children go to sleep at 10.00pm. Then why does BapDada come up so late in the evening and upto midnight ? On the one hand you are to wake up at 4.00am and go to bed before 10pm (Madhuban rules), yet on the other hand BapDada himself breaks these very rules. Can any BK child answer this ? What time did Father Shiva some into Brahma Baba (Lekhraj Kirpalani) to speak the Murli and why are the hours changed now ? Any BK child able to understand this ? Where was Father Shiva when Brahma Baba (Lekhraj Kirpalani) was taking a hike up through Lake Nakka and up the rock?

Dear bansy soul,

Previously BapDada used to stay in Gulzar Dadi’s body for 10 hours. So if MILAN was done in day, there would not be discipline. Children will go out frequently for food, toilets, etc. Another thing is, then some will have to do cooking and more maintenance. They will not be able to take part in Milan.

In day time, there would be disturbance from visitors, phone calls, etc. This will definitely make the process difficult and children would get difficulty in concentration.

Milan is only for BKs, not for outsiders. So some secrecy should be there. So, night time is better. Previously, Shiva used to come daily, so short meeting (class) was enough and the number of students were less. Now, there are students sitting from all over the world!

PLEASE NOTE that Baba has clearly mentioned in Murlis that I will not sit in charriot all the time.

I have not asked any SS or senior brothers for explanation for this. These are my thoughts.

[arjun]

I suppose the question I am posing is why are BapDada meetings only a few hours long ? And why in the evening ? Why not from the morning, throughout the day and into early evening ? In lokik life, children go to sleep at 10.00pm. Then why does BapDada come up so late in the evening and upto midnight ? On the one hand you are to wake up at 4.00am and go to bed before 10pm (Madhuban rules), yet on the other hand BapDada himself breaks these very rules. Can any BK child answer this ?

Very valid questions, but the reasons put forward by mbbhat Bhai do not seem to be rationale. People go to Madhuban setting aside all their engagements and the Madhubanniwasis/sevadharis can listen to Avyakt Vani while doing their respective jobs. Anyways, one day is exclusively set aside for them to meet BapDada. No phone call is more important than meeting BapDada. As regards secrecy, when so much security arrangement is made to prevent any PBK from entering the Madhuban complex, then why do they fear about Godly versions leaking out?

Anyways, the Avyakt Vani gets leaked out to everyone in the world through individuals or through this forum. So, why fear? It is only the sinners who fear. When BapDada is giving Godly knowledge and when BKs are instrumental in spreading Godly knowledge why should they fear Godly knowledge going out of their complex? Or do they feel the knowledge is false?

What time did Father Shiva some into Brahma Baba (Lekhraj Kirpalani) to speak the Murli and why are the hours changed now ? Any BK child able to understand this ? Where was Father Shiva when Brahma Baba (Lekhraj Kirpalani) was taking a hike up through Lake Nakka and up the rock ? I don't know about ShivBaba (via Veerendra Dev Dixit) but a similar question poses for the PBKs, i.e. what times during the day is ShivBaba (Veerendra Dev Dixit) present.

Father Shiva used to come into Brahma Baba to narrate Murlis generally during the mornings and sometimes during the nights. Since Shiv could enter/exit from Brahma anytime, He could be present in Brahma while climbing up the rock.

Like through Brahma Baba, Father Shiv narrates Murlis through Baba Virendra Dev Dixit generally in the mornings and sometimes in the afternoons or evenings, but it is normally between dawn and dusk. He takes care to fix the time in such a way that PBK mothers/sisters do not have to venture out of their home in darkness or return home in darkness. Very rarely He takes the class at Amrit Vela at certain mini-Madhubans, but that class is only for the residents of the mini-Madhubans on that day and outsiders are not called because they will have to travel in dark to reach the mini-Madhubans at Amrit Vela which may be risky.

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

[bansy]

mbbhat,

Previously BapDada used to stay in Gulzar Dadi’s body for 10 hours.

The Father is only ONE to the children, of all age and experience. Why can BapDada come for 10 hours before and now cannot last for more than 4-5 hours usually ? A few meetings ago, He came when the body of Dadi Gulzar was not feeling well and the meeting was just over a couple of hours. So in space of 4 weeks, He came for just over 2 hours. Does it matter even if you pee in your pants when you are so desperate to see your Father ? Do you think the Father cares if you pee in your pants ? Have you ever peed in your pants ? Who usually pees in their pants in the lokik world. Little children. They are pure enough to do this. But a slightly older child would expect to be a little more wise so that you would not drink much before a meeting, or would you leave your mobile phone on just in case someone more important needs to call you. :shock:

But if you are worried about calls from the outside, such a simple yukti such as switching off all phones will do.

If BKs are happy with this arrangement with their only ONE Father who can come ONLY during this Confluence Age, then let them be. Maybe they just don't love your Father enough for him to stay longer. Maybe He is really elsewhere most of the time and just pops into BKWSU occasionally.

Milan is only for BKs, not for outsiders. So some secrecy should be there. So, night time is better.

Why is there any fear of showing God to the world ? Is that not the task of the children to show the Father ? Cockroaches and rats come out at night too.

Previously, Shiva used to come daily, so short meeting(class) was enough and the number of students were less. Now, there are students sitting from all over the world!

Children are very adaptable. Otherwise how can you become World Benefactors if your clock is only set for a few hours each day, instead of 24 hours ?

If God a 24 hour God or is He a 4 hour God ? Better make sure book him into my Outlook schedule !! :D But mum, I should be in bed by 9.00pm.

[arjun]

I am not against PBKs’ method of remembering Shiva in VD’s body. Even many BKs today remember Shiva in Brahma’s body. BUT WHEN PBKs SAY THEIR METHOD ONLY IS CORRECT (making compulsory to remember body also with the soul), I do not agree with it. This is why I had asked them how much control you (PBKs) have over your organs. Ultimately, that alone can explain what true Yaad is. Otherwise these discussions will be very lengthy and never end.

We are not telling that only our method is correct. We are just pointing out what the Murlis say.

People have been remembering/worshipping God in various forms including stones, trees, etc. Even through that method they got the fruits for their efforts. People of other religions believe God to be incorporeal and remember Him in that form. They too experience God's love in some form or the other. So, if you wish to continue remembering Him in incorporeal form you can very well continue to do so.

As regards dharnaa, it has been said several times on this forum that there are good and bad people in all the organizations/religions, whether it is BKs/PBKs or other religions. ShivBaba (through Baba Virendra Dev Dixit) has clearly said umpteen number of times that BKs are better in dharna and seva while PBKs are better in knowledge and remembrance. In the end each group will become complete by imbibing the good qualities of the other group. The PBKs may be however much bad in the eyes of BKs, but you should appreciate that they have not hidden their knowledge or Godly versions nor edited/cut Murlis and have produced them as it is (audio, video and typed form) on their website for the entire world to see.

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

[mbbhat]

[ 1) No phone call is more important than meeting BapDada. 2) As regards secrecy, when so much security arrangement is made to prevent any PBK from entering the Madhuban complex, then why do they fear about Godly versions leaking out? Anyways, the Avyakt Vani gets leaked out to everyone in the world through individuals or through this forum. So, why fear? 3)It is only the sinners who fear. 4)When BapDada is giving Godly knowledge and when BKs are instrumental in spreading Godly knowledge why should they fear Godly knowledge going out of their complex? Or do they feel The Knowledge is false?

Dear Arjun soul,

1) You may say phone call is not important. But if there is any visitor (agyaanis), or some agyaanis call and there is no answer, what they will think about the institution?

2) It is not a question of fear for me. But since there are varieties of children, some care has to be taken to avoid disturbance during the milan. It is not just about PBKs. If an agyaani comes and sees milan, what will he consider? So to avoid misunderstandings of agyaanis, it is better to do in the evening.

3) I had asked a PBK whether I can attend Virendra Dev Dixit's class when he speaks Murli. But the answer was first write nishchay patra, that too in LEGAL BOND PAPER! Do you permit any BK, or agyaani to attend your Murli classes (Virendra Dev Dixit's) directly?

4) It is better not to disclose the things which others cannot understand. A common man cannot understand Murli directly. Baba has already said, without getting nishchay and observing Maryadas, it is of no use (or one should not be permitted) to sit in the class.

Usually one winds up his work and likes to spend time with a guest. Don’t you think there is at least small disrespect if one (sevadhaaris) is busy in work when baba speaks. *Also it is difficult to listen to Murlis while doing hard work and when you need to talk with other sevadharis. That too giving drushti is impossible.

Dear Bansy soul,

Can you sit without food for 10 hours during day time? If you can, do you think all can do that? So night time is best as I have explained above.

Is there any problem in doing Milan in night time? It is waste to put thoughts in limited things. Your minds will have always questions and doubts. But it may be beneficial to others. So, you can continue.

[tom]

If BKs are happy with this arrangement with their only ONE Father who can come ONLY during this Confluence Age, then let them be. Maybe they just don't love your Father enough for him to stay longer. Maybe He is really elsewhere most of the time and just pops into BKWSU occasionally.

Yes, Bansy, thank you. This is the most important point . A "God" bound to the Drama?!!

According to the "Knowledge" Seniors are teaching that "God" comes only during 100 years to earth occasionally, first to Dada Lekhraj playing cards and climbing rocks with him, then occasionally to Abu Road in Gulzar's body for longer hours while BKs go to sleep, eat, refresh themselves and come back and find God still in Gulzar, who woke up after 10-15 hours or longer? Sessions very fresh without any bodily needs. Then since many years, 12 times a year in the winter season a few hours to Abu Road and says he visits the BKs' houses during Amrit Vela. As Bansy pointed out, God's stay in Gulzar gets shorter with the years. And the Seniors have been afraid for years that God will stop coming soon.

This "God" has no idea what is going on in the world and in the BK world, except the theoretical same stuff He has been repeating since years. He knows about the worldly reality only so much as much the Dadis whisper to him in the ear.

This "God" does not care for the rest of the 7 billions of human beings on earth. And after so much work he gets so tired that he needs a big rest during 4900 years in Paramdham!!!

Oh God, how was i so naiv to believe in such a limited god! :shock:

[arjun]

1) You may say phone call is not important. But if there is any visitor (agyaanis), or some agyaanis call and there is no answer, what they will think about the institution?

Do you think all Madhuban niwasis sit continuously in front of BapDada from the time of his entry into Gulzar Dadi to the time of his departure (which could vary from 4-12 hours)? Do you think all the rooms, departments are locked and everyone sits continuously in front of BapDada all the time? As far as I know ever since I have been a BK, even when there were very few phone lines at Madhuban, all the Madhuban Niwasis never sat continuously before BapDada all the time. Some even skipped the milan due to their duties in the kitchen or other departments. They used to be provided live audio facility to listen to the Vani.

As far as phone calls are concerned, since BKWSU is a worldwide institution, phone calls can be received at any time of day or night. So, I don't think this can be a reason for BapDada to come in the night. And would BapDada mind if any non-BK call up to know about BK knowledge on phone and if he is attended to by a BK affectionately (even if it means skipping the Vani for a few minutes)? In fact he would be happy that his child is doing Godly service foregoing his personal interests.

2) It is not a question of fear for me. But since there are varieties of children, some care has to be taken to avoid disturbance during the milan. It is not just about PBKs. If an agyaani comes and sees milan, what will he consider? So to avoid misunderstandings of agyaanis, it is better to do in the evening.

There have been hundreds of cases of non-BKs (VIPs and ordinary people) witnessing Avyakt BapDada's classes. I have not visited Mount Abu after BapDada's meetings shifted to Abu Road, but until it used to take place at Om Shanti Bhawan in Mount Abu, there used to be a lot of visitors during Avyakt BapDada milan because it used to start very early at about 5.30 P.M. They used to be allowed to witness from behind the last rows of the Hall. Even some of my aged relatives(non-BKs) have witnessed Avyakt BapDada's programme for a few minutes when they visited Mount Abu.

3) I had asked a PBK whether I can attend Veerendra Dev Dixit's class when he speaks Murli. But the answer was first write nishchay patra, that too in LEGAL BOND PAPER! Do you permit any BK, or agyaani to attend your Murli classes (Veerendra Dev Dixit's) directly?

I did not say that non-BKs should be permitted to sit in the gathering in front of Avyakt BapDada. I know there are many Murli points which say that Baba meets only his children. It is based on those Murli points only that non-PBKs are not allowed to meet Baba Virendra Dev Dixit during the Murli classes. But many non-BKs meet him when he is travelling all over India throughout the year and at Gitapathshalas, where some non-BKs turn up suddenly.
I had commented only on your statement that maintenance of secrecy is one of the reasons for Avyakt BapDada's milan in the night.

Usually one winds up his work and likes to spend time with a guest. Don’t you think there is at least small disrespect if one (sevadhaaris) is busy in work when Baba speaks. *Also it is difficult to listen to Murlis while doing hard work and when you need to talk with other sevadharis. That too giving drushti is impossible.

I agree with you that it is disrespectful to walk out of Avyakt BapDada's class. Even ShivBaba (through Baba Virendra Dev Dixit) says that one should not do any other work while listening to Murli. But there are some unavoidable reasons for which one has to miss sitting in front of Baba/BapDada.

I have observed in some Discussion CDs (of PBKs) where some or the other PBK would seek Baba's permission to leave the class to go to his office and Baba would readily permit him. In fact many a times when the Murli classes plus discussion classes are held in the morning hours Baba himself asks the PBKs whether they don't want to leave (to attend to their household/office work). Normally he sticks to a strict time schedule of one hour for Murli class and one hour for discussion class. Even if he forgets to stick to the time schedule he is reminded by the person videographing the class with the help of a placard that the time is over. All this is done to maintain punctuality (to catch the next bus/train/flight) and to avoid the PBKs becoming late for their household/office work.

Is there any problem in doing Milan in night time? It is waste to put thoughts in limited things. Your minds will have always questions and doubts.

Many souls on this forum could ask a similar question. Is there any problem in doing Milan in the morning time? Especially when Baba wants us children to remember him and attend classes in the mornings. He has praised the morning time in numerous Murlis.