Accurate Yaad (Accurate Remembrance)

[mbbhat]

You should ask them for an account of the history of the Yagya.

Dear John soul,

I will try these. But it will be very slow.

[fluffy bunny]

Make that an ACCURATE account of the history, ask for an explanation of who and why they covered so much up ... and, especially, who, how and when Shiva was introduced by 20 years after it all started. Can we not honestly say that such a revelation must surely have cause considerable unpheaval at the time.

Probably folks leaving in disagreement too. I think they were sworn to secrecy about it.

Given the dicussions of late, and all the realisations, I'd say that many are being taught to have 'accurate remembrance' of something or someone that is being projected into their awareness and is only a hologram of memory ...

A very subtle and interest point, paul, and one that I guess there is a proper title for in psychology. I do not know it.

To your question, I would add the distinction between individual's spending 8 hours a day "remembering", or being in "soul/god-consciousness" and individuals spending 8 hours a day convincing themselves that there were in "soul" or "god-consciousness". I felt this when I read mmbhat's Amrit Vela practise of going jogging and "remembering to be soul-conscious" and wondered how the hell one could practising soul-conscious whilst bobbing up and down.

My feeling is that there is a whole lot more just external behavioral conformity going on (a point made in the Murlis), an equal amount of "remembering to remember" but not actually remembering. And an equal amount of fear to discuss it all openly, i.e. to admit that few to no one are having any experience and those that do are not at all sure how or why.

Given that this is the absolute crux of the BK matter ... I would say its one great big unholy and unanswered mess.

[mbbhat]

in any document produced by any Raja Yoga student wherever, is therfore not totally accurate ? So a class given by Dadi or SS is taken from edited and revised Murlis which she or he studied from. All the sincere lectures that mbbhat have given here, the lectures and books and magazines and programs and exhibitions, etc?

Dear Bansy soul,

1) A person needs mango not a mango fruit. If one does not wish to eat mango (seed= ShivBaba), what is the necessity of knowing about Mango tree (full knowledge, Yagya history, drama, etc)? Baba has clearly said, "Some say, God is almighty. He can do anything. He can bring back a dead body into alive. But I am Purifier. People call me, Oh Purifier, come, purify us". So if one has no determination to love Baba, demanding perfection of Murli is foolishness.

* Baba has also said, knowledge is of one second. Just consider yourself as soul and remember me. FINISH! *BUT that is a high dose. Because none can climb steep mountain in the straight path. People will take side paths to reduce slope and walk. Please remember that it is immaterial how you walk. If the top is clearly visible to you, even if somebody stands in your way, you can take deviation and proceed. If you complain the person, you are halting!

* Advertisement, magazines all are for new people, for service.

* One can complain if Murli points are twisted such that the meanings become opposite. But just by eliminating some points and keeping the other points as it is is not an obstacle. You can other Murli points and practice.

* Some points are twisted. Eg: If in the original Murli, it is written as 500 crores, these editing people make it 550, 600, etc. That is not realy correct. I also feel bad [Another thing:- Even PBKs now have started saying 700 crores! From which Murli? They get excuses by saying that those are their ADVANCE POINTS!]. But honestly speaking even these changes will/should not affect us in loving Baba.

*Actually, DJ's classes are not at all required. But-

* STRANGE things I have seen is some BK students like/wish/admire Dadi Janki's class more than Murlis. [One reason may be Murli has English, Hindi, Sindhi words and baba jumps from one topic to another suddenly which some may not like]. When there is demand, sisters might have given extra priority. Not only that the literature dept. might be interesting in sale of the extra copies! But one should not bother about wht these BKs or sisters do (because after 7 days course, everybody is made sure that there is nothing greater than Murli. There after it is responsiblity of EVERY INDIVIDUAL to give it highest value).

* We are RajaYogis. King of self. Why should we get influenced by these Bk students, teachers? If I quote Murli points, it would be better. There is lot of work. Bye, thanks

[fluffy bunny]

Why?

Because the current Supreme Mango Seed (SMS) is not growing mango trees never mind mango fruit (MF) ... more like 'monkey puzzle' trees' (MPT) and nuts (NUTS).

Please see serious questions above.

[mbbhat]

1) often Baba say's this? Who is Baba to you?
2) Another interesting point is why was Dadi Janki's messages being given more than Murli Points?
3) So where is God now according to you?
4) Who do you think is narrating the Avyakt Vanis?
5) I appreciate your conviction but be careful this may come back to bite you.

Dear global soul,

1) I have said before that for me- Baba, Shiva, ShivBaba are same.
2) Already replied to this
3) Where God is immaterial to me since Baba has already said- Remember me in Paramdham. He can be anywhere else. He can be Subtle Region with Brahma Baba and I do not say that God should be present with Brahma Baba all the time. He may go even to Parmadham and come back, anything. But I think, most of the time, both are combined even physically.
4) As for my belief it is BapDada both come together. But in some few cases, just BB had come. If you see the Murlis of 1969, you can get it. But since even Sakar Murlis clearly say that- "I am responsible for this (B/B). You consider that it is Shiva speaking even if Brahma gives directions". *So when the purusharthi Brahma was given that status, why cannot we consider the Avyakt Murli versions equal to bhagavaanuvaach?

One thing strikes me is, this is a variety drama. God makes us god and godesses (deities), worshipworthy. So a few human souls get the highest seat**. The souls which attain high state are capable of expalining knowledge in more detail. Some points of DJ's class are good. They may be definitely helpful to others. I guess, as days pass, more and more BKs will be able to deliver honest speeches. The reason is, a Father becomes happy when his children stand on their feet. So when BKs become capable of explaining knowledge (I am not saying about the present BKs), Baba's task will be complete. But be happy that you are not influenced by her(or any human being). Then only you can reach ShivBaba

** Real highest souls will be declared at the end. Do not think that I am considering Dadi Janki as next to Brahma or Mama.

Why? Because the current Supreme Mango Seed (SMS) is not growing

Dear ex-l soul,

I will explain in different way. If a girl does not love a boy, she has no right in the boy's property. She becomes half-partner after becoming wife (developing strong relation) Similarly, if a soul does not love Shiva, it has no right on the property (Murli).

[paulkershaw]

A person needs mango not a mango fruit.......

Oh for Gods' sake. Please spare me from this endless cr#p. Go eat 3 of your wonderful mangos but make sure they have a high fibre content and wait a few hours ... wouldya?

It would give us all a break from this lengthy pointless drivel. WHAT IS YOUR POINT?

[fluffy bunny]

Its impossible ... trying to get him to the point is like trying to handle a long snake covered in Vaseline. And the problem is, he is neither properly in nor properly out.

I think it is pointless attempting engaging with a BK if they do not follow the principles, attempting to convince themselves by using their blunt instrument on you.

But let us see if he comes back with any answers about the history etc ... I doubt it. He will get no where with the leadership. He is just their canon fodder until his faith burns out.

[mbbhat]

Dear ex-l soul,
My aim is to become or help anybody to become soul-conscious (90% effort). And 10% effort will be put in knowing Yagya history or other things.

[paulkershaw]

Disordered and Dysfunctional to say the least. Inner Dimension Is Overly Traumatised spells = ... ? Mbbhat Always Neatly Goofs On-time spells.... Mango ---- > last year we had bunches of bananas now we've got mangos. So if anyone refer to "Fruit" again I am gonna take it personally. :| Mbbhat lets rather chat about cucumbers shall we or do you not like the feel?

[mbbhat]

Dear Paulkershaw soul,
I am not very good in English and have not fully understood by your jokes/comments. Anyhow, thanks for you

[paulkershaw]

For point of reference everyone: I am not going there with an answer to him. Its just way too open for me to do so and really there's no need. So I'll resist and remain fruitful in my spiritual endeavours ... :D.

[arjun]

When it is raining everywhere (plenty of Murli points are available), and I am not able to store all the water given to me (the Murli points which are already available), if some water is kept secret or edited or cut, is it correct just to cry for that? Is it correct to come in body-conscious state, fight for that and lose the soul conscious stage?

Dear mbbhat soul,

I hope I have proved my soul-consciousness to you by addressing you as a soul. :D Do you see the numerous requests for Murlis as fights with BKWSU?

Anyways, would you kindly guide me as to where is it raining Murli points apart from this site? Does any of the numerous official BK sites provide any Murli or Avyakt Vani point (even if it is just related to dharna)? If you see the Aussie BK forum you will find only Janaki Dadi's classes everywhere.

If you wish I will once again produce the Murli point related to cutting of Murlis during Brahma Baba's time. It clearly mentions about children yearning for every gem (word) of Murli and you say that why should we cry even if some portion (which could be upto 50%) of Murli is cut.

“Father now says- Put practice of considering yourself as SOUL, so that NAME, FORM, BODY, everything gets forgotten". Then how can you say that we have to remember VD's body? In 90% of the cases, Murli will say remember just incorporeal. In 10% of the cases, Murli says remember the incorporeal through Sakar.

I never said we have to remember Virendra Dev Dixit's body. We have to remember the Supreme Father Shiv through the body of Shankar (Baba Virendra Dev Dixit). As regards the Murli points asking us to remember the incorporeal PBKs believe that we have to remember the Supreme Soul through the person who attains that incorporeal stage.

BKs say that Shiv is 100% incorporeal. But how can one know whether Shiv is actually incorporeal (i.e. free from body consciousness) or not until He actually displays that stage even while living in adverse conditions? It is easy to sit in a hall with red lights, the fragrance of incense sticks, white dresses, soothing music, no worries about food and accomodation and meditate and say that God is incorporeal. But the real test of incorporeal stage comes when you are in difficult circumstances.

[paulkershaw]

And another thought, exactly what is the meaning of accurate? Accuracy is something relative to each individual just like reliability, one can think one is reliable but everyone else's experience is not the same.

Accuracy implies many things and like truth cannot be seen to be one thing or system. So asking what Accurate Remembance is, is like asking if Christianity rules. Only to the Christians does it.

[fluffy bunny]

And keeping 'on topic', if we bear in mind that for the first 20 years the Brahma-kumaris were doing nothing but being in love with Lekhraj Kirpalani (aka God Brahma) and there was no Shiva of ANY SORT to remember ... it is not absolutely unreasonable by the same principle for any to remember Virendra Dev Dixit (if they so wish).

We know now that the BKs did not remember God Shiva because for the first 20 years they did not know there was another spirit called Shiva ... so who were they remembering.

• Logically ... how could they possibly be gaining any benefit from being in love with their God Kiripilani and if so, how?

Any yet, they talk of those first 20 years as their Golden Age of the BKWSU and it was full of wonder. So if it changed so significantly after 20 years, and changed time and time again ... who is to say that it will not change again?

The bottomline is that the whole thing is so vague and manipulatable ... no one really knows who is remembering what or how ... it keep changing ... and God BapDada now just keeps spinning everyone's head around. (For those that do not understand what I am talking about the first 20 years, read the History forum).

[bansy]

Well, dear mbbhat, I wish you well in your endeavours even if it may be barking up the wrong tree. At least it is your mango tree. Also there are many on this forum who also do not know English so we all make an effort to converse in it.

General : To follow on my previous post, there is nothing wrong with the Murlis because the reader has accepted that they are edited and revised and the versions in circulation are not the original ones. That's all. Go ahead with all other explanations, meanwhile the baseline date of Murlis keep changing. (I picked up the word "baseline" from the recent G8 summit held in Japan where the world leaders could not agree to set the date of their proposed gas emissions percentage cut. )

I don't know much about PBKs, but seems they have Murlis clarification points which means that even if Murlis are revised or edited, the ShivBaba (of the PBKs) is therefore supposedly claiming to further reclarify the human mistakes being made by the Murli editors. And what do the BKWSU have ... a bunch of Murli editors with scissors in the darkroom at the back, and then dish out 2-3 weeks in advance the daily Murli and monthly Murli points. On what basis are such decision made ?

So next time, a BK brother or sister picks up "Murli", which should be tomorrow morning if you really are a pukka BK, then have a thought about where that piece of paper came from and how many weeks in advance it was made. Do you how easy it to read tomorrow's Murli today, or even next week's ones tonight ? :shock:

Accuracy is something relative to each individual just like reliability, one can think one is reliable but everyone else's experience is not the same.

Accuracy is personal. So a person who is happy with the current way the Murlis are made, and they are not the original versions, well that is subject to their own level of accuracy. There is nothing wrong with that, but should there be an original version available, that very same person may simply be happy with what they have (i.e the status quo), and feel the non-neccessity of trying the original. Due to fear.

I prefer the original Sunflowers from Van Gogh, but then some folks seem to like reproductions.